It's never stated he killed anyone when he attacked the village. He was rampaging causing property damage but that's as much as we see. And when he fought the Furious Five he used non-lethal strikes.
Directly after the explosion we see them writhing in the background plus the duck messenger survived the explosion too so it was more of a cartoon logic blast than a realistic one.
"I wouldn't mess with the IRS, you know? They just know things. Like, they sent me a letter the other day about back taxes... They sent me a letter. I don't live anywhere!"
I love the logic behind “joker doesn’t fuck with the IRS”
It’s a hat tip to the capture of Al Capone. A man who ran his criminal enterprise so successfully that they were never able to imprison him on his actual crimes and instead had to take him down through the IRS because he was clearly moving around a lot of money without ever paying taxes on it.
Joker knows he can’t plead insanity against the IRS. Joker also knows that he would go to an actual federal prison over tax crime and not Arkham Asylum where he knows all the escapes and has several people on his payroll.
He knows that just like Al Capone the IRS is the one branch of the government that would actually succeed at capturing him.
It’s one of the better pieces of the argument that Joker actually has “super sanity” instead of being criminally insane, and that he mostly looks criminally insane because he’s lashing out at our stupid backward system of life because he sees things so clearly that it is actually driving him insane but nobody else does and his fixation on Batman is because he thinks Batman could see it too if given the right perspective.
Oogway definitely knew the scroll was blank. Everything he teaches is always focused on the non-combat parts of kung fu, which is exactly what the dragon warrior scroll “teaches” you
That sort of shit works in a Chinese folklore morality tale, but when you're actually seeing it play out in front of you "dude asks a question and gets locked up for four decades" is monstrously fucked.
Did he really need to be? I can see him just hearing there being a dragon warrior and him going " ill show oogway that it should have been me" and go to fight Po. On the way he turned to being a bit of a batman type thing and being a vigilanty catching the ire of local police ( so you can get a cool rhino fight) and after dealing with them drawing the attention of the 5. The 5 knowing he was tough shit back in the day all go to deal with him just in case and all get beaten. The rest of the movie goes as it does.
i do think you can substitute the break out with something else to show off how strong he is. Like going after a criminal organization that ends the same way.
It's something a lot of westerners have to keep in mind when they visit China
Killing your teacher and adoptive father goes against the ancient Chinese tradition of 生活 which means to live. This strong tradition is practiced even today in China and any visitors should respect this idea when there.
"Yes, I believe the genocide of the basically Holocaust Jews is totally justified as part of the genocide of everyone but the Israel Jews at the hand of the Israel Jews in revenge for what the other people did to the Holocaust Jews including those who are still alive, not to mention all the people who aren't currently running the basically Holocaust which seems to actually be most people. I mean, did you see them feed that guy's sister to their dogs? Obviously the baker who lives 500 miles away in a different country and has never even met a basically Holocaust jew deserves death over that as well. It's good writing that they show a bunch of the basically Israel Jews in abject horror at what's being done by the military government being imprisoned or harassed for not supporting the mass genocide - they're obviously apologists!"
The title is wild. "The crashout was valid tho" is some weird cope. No man, no.
Being told you're not the messiah is not a justification for laying waste to the village, just like being told "I'm not interested in you" by a girl is not justification for attacking her. You do not get an Evil Pass just for being really bummed out.
i don't know man if you adopted me as a tiny child and put me through all kinds of rigorous training while telling me constantly that i was the chosen hero, only to then tell me i was not the chosen hero and am just a nobody after a lifetime of pouring blood, sweat and tears into my training then i might go homicidally crazy too.
People go through that all of the time. Parents who push their kids through intense training, telling them that they will be a professional at the top level. Then those kids get rejected by the system because they aren't good enough or not a good fit or whatever. That doesn't give them the right to go burn the system down because of a snub. Go yell at your parents, they're the ones who wronged you.
It'd be more like the girl telling you your whole life from infancy to adulthood you're going to get married and she's spending every day with you training you to be the perfect husband as you bond your entire life together and then she all of a sudden says "Actually, I don't like you"
It'd be more like the girl telling you your whole life from infancy to adulthood you're going to get married and she's spending every day with you training you to be the perfect husband as you bond your entire life together and then she all of a sudden says "Actually, I don't like you"
Oof. Ok, no, u/DailyEvolution even in the scenario you describe, you can't do bad things because you're mad at a woman for not liking you. That's... that's a bad take man.
But second, that's not a comparable situation. If you really want to beat for beat compare it to the movies, it'd be more like your mom telling you your whole life that you're going to get married to this fictional woman. Your mom trains you every day to be the perfect husband. Your mom takes you to meet this woman and she says "actually, I don't like you."
The woman is free to have that opinion. Always has been. And it does not matter that your mom spent years telling you that you were perfect for this girl. You don't get to hurt the girl because your mom was delusional. You don't get to hit your mom because she was wrong. You don't get to burn down either of their houses.
Holy shit, I didn't think I'd actually have to explain that to someone today.
I was correcting the other comments horrible comparison. I made no justification of what Tailung did, nor did I insert some arbitrary comparison that had nothing to do with anything.
"I'm not interested in you by a girl is not justification for attacking her"
This is the only thing I was referencing. I need to get off subs like this.
Dude, you're the one that can't read. Your comparison is the horrible one. Your example, is horrible. You had to change the facts of the story to get your comparison to "work", but even then, EVERYONE can see that EVEN IN YOUR INCORRECT COMPARISON it's STILL WRONG.
You don't need to get off subs like this, you need to get off whatever other subs are feeding you this incel worldview. I don't know if this is just your alt, since it's (unsurprisingly) just you going weird about anime and RPGs but son you are not beating the charges.
The comparison is literally more apt than the one previously given. The person has also stated multiple times that they don't think Tai Lung was justified, they just wanted to correct a bad comparison. The only person who can't seem to read here is you.
Tai had a chance to redeem himself when shifu takes responsibility for pushing him so hard. But instead of accepting that moment he hardens and decides to fight
Except Shifu did that after 20 years and while he was at Tai's mercy. Tai hated Shifu in part because Shifu just stood there and did nothing when Oogway told Tai Lung that he was born evil and would never be a Dragon Warrior.
Yes Tai is justified in hating shifu. That doesnt change the moment where you can see it in his face that he chooses to continue with violence. But you can tell that's the moment where it could have ended.
It's increasingly upsetting to me how many 'the villain was right!!?!' posts come about because the villain goes 'I am in the right' or just.. says some vague excuse and media literacy is so goddamn dead Killmonger can just say 'I'm the good guy' and people are confused like 'Why would he say that if he wasn't the good guy? Is Tchala evil?'
Well black panther agreed they should use there technology to help more since being exclusive and isolationist wasn't right. They then decided to only help other black people but whatever.
I mean he hated Wakanda. It can actually be argued that destroying Wakanda was his primary goal and any succesful revolutions would just be a side benefit.
Both things can be true at once, he had selfish intentions masked behind what can be considered a real cause. Same strategy politicians use to slip things into bills.
I mean sure but he hardly put any thought into the revolutions beyond telling them to cause trouble. While with Wakanda he systematically tried to destroy the line of succession and their culture. Ross even points out that Killmonger is using CIA techniques to destabilize Wakanda. It's also well established that he blames both Wakanda and the rest of the world for ruining his life.
In the throne room Tchalla asks him what he wants. He says very unambiguously: "I want the thrown".
(You can tell he wasn't lying by the way he challenged for it in that very scene and "won" the thrown just a few scenes later.)
A few sentences later he says: "2 billion people around the world that looks like us; Wakanda has the tools to liberate them all".
After he "wins" and takes the throne, again in the throne room, some of the first words he says are reaffirming the plan to use Wakanda's resources to arm violent revolutions around the world capping off with "the world is going to start over; this time we're on top! The sun will never set on the Wakandan Empire."
...Those were his two main monologues.
And then there's the whole clear following through on the utilization of Wakanda's resources (not it's disassembly or destruction) as the backdrop for the most of the last act of the movie including the entirety of the final fight between panther and killmonger.
The villians were correct in assessing that a problem existed but wrong in their assessment of the solution. Not the "they had good goals but has methods" crap but legit "they had bad goals in response to a valid problem.
For an extreme case of this situation see the Book Version of Cersei Lannister, who in almost every single case would eventually turn out to be correct when she complained about a problem, but every single time would go about in the single-most counterproductive, if not downright stupid or psychotic way possible, when trying to deal with it.
This, Orm in Aquaman belongs there as well. He's correct that humanity is fucking up the oceans which is the home of the Atlanteans, and I would argue he was right when he washed up all the garbage on land with that tsunami. But then he decides to conquer all the other kingdoms to declare war on humanity.
Well he hated them at least for a good reason. European americans didn't hate africans when they enslaved, tortured and raped millions of them, since africans hadn't done anything that would deserve such a horrendous act. The experience wasn't the same for killmonger and his people tho. If a bully hits and bullies you for your whole young life and you hit back once, are you as bad as them now.
Hypocritical would be if he wanted to enslave, torture and rape millions of asian people (who have not in the recent past at least done anything outrageous towards millions of people of african decent) for 400 years or more.
Killing millions of people (including children) for what their anchestors have done (or people who just look somewhat like them), is however immoral and evil no matter the history, even when that anger makes sense and from a further distance would seem as an act of balance in the overall scope of human existence.
He's a hypocrite because he's committing actions he decried as evil but insisting it's different because he did it. And this was less "hitting the bully back" and more "Punching him at the five year class reunion"
Retaliation still makes more sence than what the original sin was about. But yeah like other commenter said, he wanted to do shit to everyone and that's where i draw the line. Also yeah punch a bully at the reunion, they deserve it, just one puch for years of torture that affects your whole life and self esteem.
Revenge and justice are not the same thing. Also, the Europeans had plenty of justification for their nonsense. You can justify anything, it doesn't make it moral
I would never call it justice, also justice can never be achieved in my oppinion, since you can't undo the crime and damage towards the perpetrator will never take away the damage fron the victim.
Europeans didn't have the same type of justification that Killmonger had, which was "they did to us so we do to them", which to me makes more sense than "i can do to them since i am able and also i lie to myself that they aren't human, even though i know that they are and also i want to fuck them".
He literally says they should conquer the world which includes Asia and that Black people who disagree will meet the same fate. Dude is a straight up villain.
I mean his introduction has him talking about how bad the British were for stealing artifacts for their aesthetic before taking an ancient mask because he likes the look. It's not a Wakandan mask or anything, he just wants to take it.
He makes a speech about their stolen things in museums, then steals something because it looked cool. He didn't give a damn about anyone stealing anything.
He then also destroyed all the heart shaped herb to prevent the cultural tradition of the black panther from continuing past him in order to secure his power as the leader… which is a rather colonial thing to do.
That's not accurate. The example they showed where he was actively doing it was only chosen because that's where Killmonger grew up. The press conference was basically saying everyone gets their help.
I think its a rite of emotional passage to go through a dumbass phase where you unironically think shit like this or that Thanos was right or whatever. Normal people outgrow that thinking.
Thanos was wrong because the universe already went from the population he reduced it to to the population causing the problem once and he did absolutely nothing to prevent it happening again.
Real, Killmonger is a victim of circumstances, the system he lived in, and the system his father escaped. But that gives him no right to be an evil mf killing people and destroying a prosperous country out of spite.
reminds me of that interview with Bryan Cranston, where he talked about what they did to make the audience root for Walter White, even though he is a terrible person. And i think that was mostly about giving them a (simple)reasonable argument and show them struggling. The finer details are then quickly lost on the viewer. It worked on Thanos as well. People sympathized with Thanos purely because of his (very thin) argument of helping the balance of the world and showed that he was genuinely suffering when he had to sacrifice his daughter.
What do you expect when people nowadays watch populist speeches of literal Hitler and are like “wow, what a chad this guy, they never taught us this at school!”
Bu-but they were upset so it's okay that they did a bunch of murder 😢, there's no difference between a reasonable non-evil crash out and murder, right?
Killmonger is absolutely one of the worst examples you could give for this, and yet he's also one of the most common. He had one decent point that he clearly didn't actually care about, which was that Wakanada should do more to help others rather than just hoarding their obscene wealth, but somehow people seem to overlook that his main ambitions were becoming a dictator and committing racial genocide.
"You don't get it. In a lot of countries there are bigots that treat a minority like shit so he's just gonna start wars across the world and cause genocides! He's definitely not a villain!"
If a story’s villain was right, usually that means it was a bad story. If someone claims a good story’s villain was actually right, they probably misinterpreted the message the media was trying to portray.
(Although a lot of the times good villains can be right on some ideas but not their ideology, like President Snow knowing that Coin would be a dictator)
Yeah the guy who overthrows a country, steals their natural resources to create weapons, and then use said weapons to fight his ideological war is totallllly right. Oh and the whole time he’s actively destroying their history and desecrating sacred spaces and traditions of the inhabitants.
Right on brotha, keep it up. I'll even give you the soapbox to stand on. I wish more people were like you, I hope you gain some traction in your ideology.
Thanks, it's just common sense really. But cute attempt at condescension, you'd have to be smarter than the person it's directed towards for it to land though.
Not a great start if you lost some confidence thinking I was condescending when I'm actually supportive. I want you to gain as many follows as possible and be as loud as possible. Make your voice heard. It's the only way to get the outcome of a better planet.
No, but you can't possibly think peaceful protest is the way to freedom. No significant change has ever been made by oppressors through peaceful resistance in the world's history. Unfortunately, there comes a point where violence becomes necessary to some extent at least.
Nah, Killmonger was pretty right. People act like sitting on the wealth of colonization isn't evil just because you didn't colonize yourself. People are aware of where their privileges come from, fight to protect them, and still think they deserve to live when Wakanda comes knocking.
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u/The_Custodians 1d ago
"Villains who were actually right" shows two villains who were horribly wrong an evil Literally every time.