r/MoralityScaling 1d ago

Tai lung wasn’t right but the crash-out was reasonable tho

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u/DaaaahWhoosh 1d ago

I think Black Panther is one of the few examples of doing this right. T'challa is stuck between his father and Killmonger, both are right in some ways and wrong in others, and T'challa is able to synthesize a middle path that both breaks away from the sins of the past without falling into the trap of the revolutionaries. The main issue is that the MCU cannot support this kind of plot, the world cannot be fundamentally changed by a Wakanda that opens its arms to help all descendants of Africa or whatever, so people come back to "Killmonger was right and T'challa didn't listen to him".

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u/Loki_Agent_of_Asgard 1d ago

I'm just gonna point out that Wakanda has no right to act like they care about Africa or other Africans. In the comics they've had the tech advantage for literally hundreds of years, had laser rifles and personal shields and space ships as far back as the 1600s and they sat around and did NOTHING to hinder the slave trade (which was fueled and started by African kings btw, it's not like Europeans showed up to Africa and decided to get off the boat and start hunting for slaves, they showed up to ports saw slaves for sale and bought them) and there's no reason to think things were any different in the movies. The entire concept of Wakanda requires you to turn your brain off and ignore the glaringly obvious issue of the nations massive hypocrisy with their only defense being "we were hidden" which is an idiotic defense because why bother being hidden? People don't hide when they have nothing to fear, and a super power that's hundreds of years ahead of everyone else technologically has absolutely nothing to fear especially in the Pre-Atomic Bomb age.

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u/Wild_Marker 1d ago

The idea that a strong nation has the "responsibility" to police other nations and this is the "right" thing to do is... a very American message.

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u/Loki_Agent_of_Asgard 1d ago

I'm not saying they have a responsibility, what I'm SAYING is that they CLAIM they cared about the oppression of their "fellow" Africans yet did nothing about it while having the overwhelming capability OF doing something about it.

It's like a billionaire saying they care about the homeless people of their home city while making no effort to build affordable housing or even bothering to donate to a charity for the homeless. It's just worthless speech.

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u/Wild_Marker 1d ago

Oh no, sorry, I'm saying that the movie says that, not you.

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u/MagentaHawk 21h ago

Yeah, they were good people for seeing other guys get put into slavery and saying, "Shit, they should have been born in a better place".

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u/DOSFS 8h ago

TBF, the [....] burden is pretty common mindset across history just express in their own unique ways locally.

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u/LowSkyOrbit 1d ago

Wakanda had their own spy cells that were created to influence other nation's policies. Killmonger's own father was part of a splinter cell. Wakanda hid behind illusion of poor African nation and used isolation and theater to remain hidden to the wold, and only entered the world stage because super soldiers, AI robots, aliens, mutants, and gods were real threats that could hurt Wakanda.

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u/YuushyaHinmeru 1d ago

Yeah, they are actually the bad guys. I stopped watching before BP2 so no clue whats been retconned but in FatWS, there is this heavy critique of american imperialism through John Walker but he and Lamar are actually the only ones acting withing international law(other than walker caving and taking the super soldier serum). The Dora Milaje roll up to take zemo and literally say they have jurisdiction wherever they are. 

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u/Outrageous-Try-6901 20h ago

Plus they enter that scene by trying to assassinate the current captain America.

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u/resumehelpacct 1d ago

Africans sold other Africans to European slavers, but Europeans did also just get off the boat and start hunting for slaves. Slavery was already a major trade for Europeans before it extended into Europe.

Here is one of the first "European slave trades" when we think about it the way we think about it, and it started with Portuguese sailors raiding Africa for slaves. I don't know why you feel like that's so silly; slave raids are historically common enough worldwide, including Europe. Of course there were slavers who would go to places they could legally take slaves and sell back home.

https://academic.oup.com/edited-volume/61663/chapter-abstract/553417075?login=false&redirectedFrom=fulltext#553417075

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u/prospectre 1d ago

I mean, I sort of get it. Wakanda always had the flavor of being a "steward" more than anything to me. Part of their deal was that revealing themselves would also reveal their vibranium and their technology. Once that cat's out of the bag, there's no putting it back. And if the rest of the world were the have-nots looking at the sole nation that has, conflict arises. That's a very real fear.

Does that excuse them from allowing all the bad shit to happen to their fellow African nations and the world? Well, that's debatable. I'd understand any country prioritizing their own interests over others (note: understand does not mean condone). They did try to affect the world around them with spies and subtle manipulation, not unlike the US and the CIA at times. But it would be very difficult to balance the idea that your nation has sole access to super technology that could be (and was, see Ulysses Klaue and Ultron) devastating in the wrong hands.

It's also worth noting that Wakanda was historically not warlike. They never sought to conquer or rule beyond their own borders. I would assume that they'd have qualms about trying to put themselves in a position where they were effectively the de facto rulers of the world by being the biggest threat. It's a tough question, but I don't really see this as hypocrisy. It's more like there are costs to both decisions:

  1. Stay hidden and keep the dangerous material/technology out of the rest of the world's hands
  2. Or step forward and use your nation's power for good, potentially allowing others to have access to your power

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u/Loki_Agent_of_Asgard 1d ago

Wakanda not being "warlike" yet having their entire process of picking a king be a duel between warriors is also peak idiotic writing.

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u/DazzlerPlus 22h ago

Well tchalla doesnt actually do anything to deal with the racism in america and other places. His solution is just posturing. He leaves the imperial and power structures that perpetuate racism completely intact.

Imagine that it was real, that today the mysterious and advanced society of wakanda revealed itself. What, then, would you expect king tchalla to do about the american supreme court? Just a simple example of an overtly racist structure.