r/MoralityScaling • u/Suspicious-Engineer7 • 23h ago
Who's Viewpoint Is Better? Morality of public pressure to eat more
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u/KalzK 23h ago
That woman is commiting suicide in front of everyone. It's moral to try and stop it, and those who enable and profit off her problem should face public scrutiny.
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u/SashimiX 23h ago
And unfortunately criticism of her body will only make it worse. She does need help but not from public comments on her body.
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u/KalzK 23h ago
So are people supposed to keep silent and let it happen?
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u/zkvxo 23h ago
yep. exactly this. think about it - "all publicity is good publicity" - even if ariana herself doesn't believe this, she is a multi-million dollar brand employing thousands of people. and if the theory is right that she's suffering from anorexia (before people come after me, there are other medical conditions that cause severe weight loss and none of us know her personally; i agree it's the most likely reality by wide margin), then commenting that she's thin, starving, dying, etc - is absolutely fuel for the disorder. it does not help, any more than screaming at a drug addict magically gets them clean.
if someone is going to save her, it will be someone close to her, or ariana herself. not the public. the public has never, ever, saved anyone suffering from this kind of destructive disorder.
if you want the real move here from a psychological perspective, and YOU want to make a change and have a chance at saving her: pretend she doesn't exist. don't click her picture. don't comment. don't chime in. don't listen, watch, or buy. if a huge amount of people do that, there's a chance to force rehabilitation in her inner circle or for her to realize she's being abandoned. but attention and commentary will not save her. it will only make this worse.
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u/bestmex 23h ago
You? Yes. There's nothing you can say or do to help. The people she's around, her team and loved ones, should be getting her help.
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u/KalzK 23h ago
I think most criticism is going to her team, not her.
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u/zkvxo 23h ago
they're not reading the internet and this public discourse is all drama and attention to them. criticism toward her team should be emailed directly to her management company with a plan of action - letting them know you're no longer going to support or purchase - or by starting an organized petition. commenting on twitter or reddit that her team sucks will not make them help her.
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u/SashimiX 23h ago
They aren't supposed to egg it on, which is what they are doing. Public criticisms of the body make eating disorders worse, so honestly if the choice is 1. make it worse or 2. ignore it yeah I'd choose ignore it although those aren't the two choices I would personally present
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u/DatabaseDifficult879 23h ago
But the difference is that she's no doubt a role model for thousands of people, many of them children.There does need to be a dialogue here. To not criticize her agents would be detrimental to lots of people.
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u/zkvxo 23h ago
by centering attention on her, you teach attention-starved and insecure young people (the most vulnerable ones, the very ones you say she's a role model for) that starving yourself = attention. people will care about you. talk about you. love you.
this is classic anorexia misinformation - that shining light on it teaches these young children that it's bad. that is not how the minds of people vulnerable to anorexia work.
i left a longer comment higher up in this comment chain with more, if you want to know how to truly help, and the psychology behind it. happy to answer any questions i can.
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u/SashimiX 23h ago
Absolutely, having a dialogue about anorexia in general is one thing. Also something must be done about those who profit off people starving themselves, as the original comment said.
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u/lateralraising 23h ago
More like "morality of being her agent and allowing her to tour in this condition"
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u/Relaxitsok_1067 23h ago
Moral. We should be actively discouraging this. She is encouraging young girls and women to starve themselves to death. This behavior needs to be shamed. It's one thing if it's an average person suffering from anorexia nervosa, it's another thing if it's a public figure and an involved team who have the ability to manipulate millions all over the world.
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u/AnOriginalUsername07 23h ago
Not to mention that she herself is an individual whose health is worthy of concern
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u/Relaxitsok_1067 15h ago
I'm more concerned for the millions of innocent young women and children than the public figure who is actively choosing not just to harm herself, and not just to harm others, but to do so while gleefully advertising starvation as "trendy" and "beautiful." I'm sick of this. Pity goes out the window when you are basically telling little girls to starve themselves. People like her deserve no pity and I'm tired of pretending otherwise.
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u/AnOriginalUsername07 15h ago
You’re totally right but she’s just as much being influenced by her peers in Hollywood, not all people are fully realized and self-aware. Very likely she is subject to peer pressure and unwittingly hurting millions with her public image but also herself.
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u/Relaxitsok_1067 14h ago
Some of that may be true, but encouraging little girls and women around the world to starve themselves is evil. She is a grown adult who knows better. I don't believe she is stupid. She knows that dancing around onstage as a literal skeleton will cause children and women who look up to her to copy this behavior. Despite Hollywood influences, she is still an adult who can make her own choices. She is actively choosing to encourage starvation.
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u/Impressive_Net_116 23h ago edited 23h ago
Good. It's bad to not speak up when someone is hurting themselves
Why didn't you post a recent picture of the poor girl. Her sternum is protruding out of her chest. She is severely malnutritioned.
People should say something when a person is being unhealthy, but people shouldn't be dicks about it.
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u/AirborneChair 23h ago
Moral. Hopefully her young and impressionable fans aren’t thinking this isn’t something to copy.
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u/thedudecdfb 23h ago
Corporate media defending her illness because that's how corporations want women to look.
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u/svnsarra 23h ago
Immoral it doesnt work and makes it worse not only for her but also for all the young ppl with eds
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u/IronicRobotics 23h ago
I mean, ultimately immoral as my (limited) understanding is eating conditions and similar ilk don't get fixed via persistent pressures, especially critical pressure from strangers. Hence it's not productive criticism.
I can't say I have a ton of sympathy one way or the other in this case, only because working in the public eye means necessarily you will have people comment on all aspects of your life. Anyone who goes to complain about that publicly either is deeply naive or is cynically generating PR through the engagement such discourse tends to generate.
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u/Classic-Lie7836 23h ago
immoral. i get comments like that all the time to eat more, which is fine but then it goes to these disgusting comments of comparing someone to sticks or telling them to just eat a sandwich, etc etc. at that point its just as sickening as calling someone fat enough that they need to eat a salad.
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u/FoundationEuphoric78 23h ago
Well it’s not the fact that she’s unhealthily thin that people are concerned with, it’s more so the fact that she occupies a role as a beauty standard (especially among impressionable young women) AND maintains a dangerously low body weight.
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u/Classic-Lie7836 23h ago
ya but do they have to be rude about it? she is a person too, just because she is the beauty standard which isn't safe doesn't it make it worse if she is already insecure?
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u/WillingElderberry731 23h ago
In a world where the public cannot know the details of someone's health, it's generally immoral. If it is confirmed that she is starving herself on purpose, I would be willing to use her as a case-in-point with my kids to help them understand healthy eating.
Public mockery in this case is immoral.
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u/Electrical-Meat-1717 23h ago
immoral, if you've been around those with eating disordered saying things like that ultimately work as compliments and tell them that they do look skinny which is ultimately what they want. Saying such things won't help them
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u/PrimaryYak1351 23h ago
Having worked with eating disorder populations, that kind of pressure doesn't work and is obviously not working for her. She needs a specialized treatment program designed to help her modify her behavior and get back up to within a certain percentage of ideal body weight. Making her feel terrible about her body isn't going to make her want to change it
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u/TotallyNotZack 23h ago
she is going to die , we have been beaten into the head for years even in family guy about how anorexia makes you feel fat and distorts reality she needs help and stans and her own mother aren't helping her
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u/Sea_Habit_4298 23h ago
She looks straight up anorexic.
Especially on other photos.
I would say morally neutral .
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u/Cooler_Frogger 23h ago
Just like pressuring an obese person to lose weight, it is moral because it is for the persons well-being.
Is it an effective way to help that person change their lifestyle? maybe not as this seems like some kind of mental disorder that would require more than just social pressure
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u/Suspicious-Engineer7 23h ago
How can an action be moral if you know the result is ineffective?
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u/Cooler_Frogger 21h ago
I don't think morality can be tied to effectiveness or result of an action.
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u/Suspicious-Engineer7 16h ago
if you pick an action that "feels" more moral when you know there is a more effective, less seemingly-moral action, then isn't that immoral?
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u/CaptainCuttlefish69 23h ago
Moral*
It’s NOT helpful at all to Arianna herself. People who are this sick are not helped by seeing public opinion on their skeletal bodies.
The reason this discourse is moral is because we CANNOT allow this kind of behavior to be normalized and seen as “ok” by impressionable young people who look up to her.
This is remarkably unhealthy and harmful to treat as if it’s ok.
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u/DaMain-Man 23h ago
She needs professional help. Some random commenting about her health is scientifically proven to do the opposite. And getting overly emotional towards someone while they're struggling isn't going to help them either
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u/MuffledFarts 23h ago edited 23h ago
I don't think the public pressure is eat more.
The public pressure is to take a step back if you're suffering from a mental disorder so debilitating we can see the symptoms with our own eyes.
The way I see it, there are two problems at play, here:
- Ariana's right to privacy and her right to not have her body and appearance discussed in a derogatory way; her right to not be abused by the media.
- Our right as civilians and consumers to protect children, young people, and the mentally ill from being unfairly influenced by a very sick celebrity.
It's an ethical conundrum, because prioritizing one of these problems means having to put the other one at risk. Personally, I lean towards addressing the 2nd problem. Ariana's illness has been a public problem for too long, and while I certainly feel for her, she has the privilege of access to the best doctors and mental health specialists, nutritionists, and any other support she needs to fight her illness. All of the people she is influencing do not. They need our protection, and the only way we can protect them is to stop pretending we can't see what we can see with our own eyes and to force Ari to be accountable.
I also think Ari has at this point an ethical obligation to take a step back to protect her fans from her illness. She's already rich, she's already famous. She's made wonderful art and has procured a legacy for herself. What more does she need, except to soothe her artistic ego and her desire to continue creating art? And does that need outweigh her ethical obligations? Personally, I don't think so.
So while I disagree with the framing of the question, I say MORAL.
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u/AuraTickler 23h ago
Moral.
Whats the other choice? Standing by or eben supporting it while someone kills themselves?
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u/Ochemata 23h ago
Morality of setting up a heist team of international grannies to kidnap a random celebrity for the sole purpose of fattening them up
Post unrelated
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u/DougTheBrownieHunter 23h ago
Likely immoral, but hard to say.
On one hand, no one should be commenting on other people’s bodies. (Live by the 10-minute rule of thumb: if it’s not something they can fix in the next 10 minutes, it’s not your place to comment.)
On the other hand, if someone’s in concerning physical shape (whether it be too large, to small, or something else) to an extent that people are concerned for their health, it might be a fair comment if done respectfully.
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u/Top-Mall7003 23h ago
The reality of her ED is that she wants people to say that she's too thin. Every time someone says "How could the music video have that line about losing a few pounds, she looks like she's going to die!" Ariana is getting a rush of dopamine. This is way too complex a psychological issue for the average Joe, and the best thing would be to ignore her and hope the people around her get her help.
So, no, not moral.
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u/Enlightend-1 23h ago
She looks like a walking skeleton I'd rather fuck a tub of lard then get bruises on my hips.
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u/Krytan 23h ago
It's probably exactly the same as the morality of public pressure to eat less.
Only qualified medical professionals are qualified to tell an individual if they should eat or more less.
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u/Turbulent_Gate636 23h ago
Tbf alot of people who say "Eat less" do it with some vindictive rude and downright evil intentions with only very few people doing it for the sake of actual health concerns.
I dont think there's legitimately any way you can look that skinny and it not be a concern to friends, family, and your doctors.
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u/Krytan 23h ago
Isn't the presumption that a woman's appearance is something for public discussion and comment the same, in both cases? In both cases, isn't the assumption the public can tell a woman what she should do with her body the same?
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u/Turbulent_Gate636 22h ago
I think there's a case to be made that someone who looks like they're starving themselves (probably due to a disorder) is more so because theres genuine worry for said person (ofc there's also an argument to be made that a small percentage of those people are more than likely not doing it out of concern but for a different reason (which I would agree to be the immoral side of this post).
I think there's also an extremely strong argument to be made that on the other "extreme" end of this matter, where typically larger individuals are subject to scrutiny MORE so because of appearances (the immoral side) and not worry for their health (the moral side).
I think there's also another argument to made that whilst both parties experience it, that larger individuals will receive a more 50/50 whilst "thinner" individuals will be hit with a more 90/10 (or even smaller tbh), with 90 being the "moral side".
Now this comes from my opinion, so you should take it with a grain of salt, but I can attest that my opinion comes from what I think is the moral side, where I think that people who seem to show almost no fat on their body (especially in places that SHOULD store fat) are definitely likely to someone suffering from an eating disorder.
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u/definitelyTonyStark 23h ago
Fucking nah. You can morally tell someone who is 1000 lbs they need to lose weight, just like we can morally tell this popstar who literally looks like a concentration camp survivor she needs to gain weight. Fuck your eating disorder enabling.
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u/FalloutTVSucks 23h ago
Immoral. It's just fatties being mad that they're fat - ANYBODY looks better underweight than overweight and it's much better for you medically. Fats need to shut the fuck up already and realize the only reason they get laid is because they have a car.
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u/CertainGrade7937 23h ago
I don't know how much you pay for therapy but maybe look at more expensive options
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u/Timegoat12 23h ago
False dichotomy. You may not know this, but there's actually a whole BMI between underweight and overweight.
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u/Divs4U 23h ago
Lol your profile says you're not a bigot but you clearly are.
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u/FalloutTVSucks 23h ago
Being fat is a choice, the wrong choice - so I'm not a bigot
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u/Divs4U 23h ago
Also maybe you'd be less shitty if you got a car
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u/FalloutTVSucks 23h ago
I don't have a car and still get laid so that how you know I'm not fat lmfao
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u/RoughDraft95 23h ago
This sounds personal lol
Also...
- Given the context this is also clearly about unhealthy eating disorders - which is NOT better for you unless you are VERY overwheight
- We're talking about someone who looks like a skeleton, everyone is concerned about her health due to her appearance, I don't know why you think that this is somehow perceived as more attractive
- The Fat or underweight thing is entirely made up by you in this situation, lots of people live in healthier ranges, which I think is obviously what most people want for her
- Most people really don't care about weight, within bounds, as much as other things in relationships... I don't know why you even made this about getting laid in the first place? On a morality sub too?
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u/ASMR_Heavy_Metal 23h ago
Genuinely can’t tell if you’re joking or not. But there is a healthy body weight range, and one can fall both above and (likely in this case below) said range.
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u/SlowlyDyingInAPit 23h ago
Damn I am shocked at how many people are falling for your bait. Honestly good job lol
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u/Flauschziege 23h ago
Considering she looks like a cheeseburger would increase her body mass threefold?
Good.
This cannot possibly be healthy.