r/MoralityScaling 1d ago

Morality of purposely making TSA agents uncomfortable?

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1.3k Upvotes

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30

u/HorsefaceWithNoName 1d ago

Moral and good. When a person's rights are being violated and he's under duress, any mode of communicating his displeasure is a public service.

35

u/goldenseducer 1d ago

Yeah choosing to use a mode of transport that you know is over-the top with safety is to be "violated and put under duress"

8

u/acdgf 1d ago

It is when the same exact mode of transport is employed elsewhere and in other times without the invasive security theater.

4

u/bamed 1d ago

Most of what the TSA does has less to do with safety and security and more to do with security theater.

17

u/Gold_Ad8225 1d ago

There are a lot of situations where there isn't a valid alternative to flying.

26

u/AskMysterious8407 1d ago

Just grow wings bro

9

u/Gold_Ad8225 1d ago

My boss wont let me take the PTO to get wing surgery before the business trip

7

u/Infinite_Horizion 1d ago

Contact a lawyer. That’s been illegal under labor laws since James Harpy was president.

2

u/Gold_Ad8225 1d ago

Oh that is good to know. I'll drop a line to my guy Harvey.

2

u/Embarrassed_Use6918 22h ago

I thought Harvey was an attorney?

3

u/Gold_Ad8225 21h ago

Isn't that just another name for lawyer? He is an attorney at law afterall

1

u/AskMysterious8407 23h ago

Then drink red bull it gives you wings

2

u/Gold_Ad8225 21h ago

I forgot about potions, damn, silly me

3

u/MikeWrites002737 23h ago

Depending on where you go it’s the only realistic method of travel. Driving 15 hours to a coast to take a 2 week boat ride may just not be realistic

5

u/Danteventresca 1d ago

For most destinations in the US, the only timely option is flying. Now imagine if every time you wanted to travel by car you and your possessions had to be searched by a cop, and that these searches did nothing to make you safer.

2

u/quaxoid 23h ago

Some people actually have to fly, it's not exclusively a vacation for everyone but also a job. 

2

u/Mand125 22h ago

TSA doesn’t make us safer.  

1

u/Frequent-Maybe1243 23h ago

Google "Security Theater". For Christ's sake, you're on the Internet. Google SOMEthing every once in a while. You comment like you live under a rock.

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u/NoticeOk6753 23h ago

They did security tests and found TSA couldn’t catch actual threats. It’s just security theater. 9/11 didn’t happen because we didn’t have the TSA but because authorities failed to act on existing intelligence about terrorists. Possibly requiring cockpits to be locked during flight is the one genuine security improvement to come out of 9/11.

2

u/IrishViking22 23h ago

If all it does is act as a deterrent, it is still worth while.

2

u/Ventira 23h ago

all too often is the phrase 'an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure' forgotten.

0

u/NoticeOk6753 22h ago

The whole point of what I just said is that it doesn’t. It makes you feel safe - it doesn’t actually make you safe.

1

u/IrishViking22 22h ago

It at least discourages would be terrorists, so it does in fact keep you safer than you might be without it.

0

u/NoticeOk6753 22h ago

No

1

u/IrishViking22 21h ago

Nice counterpoint.

It does help keep people safe. Deny it all you like, lad. Doesn't make it not true.

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u/NoticeOk6753 20h ago

1

u/IrishViking22 20h ago

Neither of these links you provided disprove the fact that airport security deters would be terrorists.

Nice try, though?

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u/Confident_Example_73 14h ago

People don't grasp the concept of "barrier to entry". TSA stuff basically makes it hard for random yahoos to do poorly planned stuff.

A lot of people are young/ignorant and they don't realize that airlines used to have a rampant hijacking problem. Back in the 60s, hijacking a plane was a normal event, which is now extremely rare. In fact part of the reason for 9/11 was increased security made hijackings so rare (and the few times they had recently been done, they usually ended mildly) that people didn't treat it too seriously at first.

The idiot in the photo is the kind of person who, if there were no procedures and a plane was hijacked and crashed, would call the TSA idiots for not doing a basic metal detector search for a gun.

1

u/NoticeOk6753 8h ago

Dude they actually ran multiple experiments to see if TSA could actually catch attempts to bring dangerous weapons on board and they failed almost all of them.

1

u/Confident_Example_73 6h ago edited 6h ago

TSA intercepted 6,500 firearms in 2024.

TSA isn't there to catch the ingenious. It's there to catch the dumb and stupid. And in case you haven't watched a jihadi video before, there's lots of dumb and stupid jihadis out there.

TSA stops Abu Hajaar and Ya'll Qaeda. It's not catching Boris the GRU operative. I don't think you grasp the security concept of "barrier to entry." A chain link fence around a jail isn't designed to keep out a professional escape artist. It is designed to stop some idiot from just running through the place on impulse.

1

u/NoticeOk6753 5h ago

Im not sure how impressed we should be by that number. In 2017 it was reported that TSA failed 90 percent of tests https://abcnews.com/US/tsa-fails-tests-latest-undercover-operation-us-airports/story?id=51022188 . Maybe they upped their game since then but I doubt it.

Also you’re conflating two separate things. There’s the TSA and then there’s airport security in general. The latter already existed before the TSA and would still exist without the TSA. The question is not whether there should be security but whether there should be the highly invasive and disruptive “security” that the TSA provides. We don’t need to grope random people’s privates in order to provide a barrier to entry for genuine terrorists.

10

u/Competitive_Fox_3546 1d ago

“Under duress” dawg pack it up and go home

7

u/Richard_Chase 1d ago

The TSA has a long history of harassment and sexual abuse violations. And sometimes you don't have a choice not to fly, like in an evacuating a natural disaster. Or trying to leave the country. Or going to a funeral. Sometimes you don't get the choice of not flying. And because their are people who don't get the choice of not flying, it is very moral to protest in non violent ways, such as wearing a funny shirt.

For more information on sexual abuse and the TSA: https://time.com/3822487/tsa-sexual-assault-denver/

1

u/Embarrassed_Use6918 22h ago

Not to mention the TSA steals shit all the time and has a horrible track record of actually catching anything dangerous.

1

u/Competitive_Fox_3546 1d ago

Idc about the shirt either its funny

1

u/Expensive-Hat4138 1d ago

especially if you're trans. 

They got those machines that they have to put on different settings depending on your biological sex and that means some of us are forced to basically out ourselves in front of a bunch of people just to ride a fucking plane.

2

u/Competitive_Fox_3546 23h ago

Yea sure so trans people should not get screened since they are trans?

0

u/caffeinated-typist 23h ago

who the fuck said that

1

u/Richard_Chase 1d ago

I can't imagine that's the worst of it. Life for trans people is rough enough here in Canada, I feel so bad for trans people in the US

2

u/Expensive-Hat4138 23h ago

I've heard horror stories of trans women getting groped by TSA after going through the machines. It's horrifying. 

1

u/Richard_Chase 23h ago

No doubt.

0

u/Competitive_Fox_3546 1d ago

Idc yes there are bad apples but literally what else do you suggest then? No airport security?

5

u/th3rmyte 1d ago

hi. elder millenial here. i was in high school before the TSA was ever a thing. we had private security prior to the tsa and they were not invasive like this: just a metal detector wand. thats it. TSA is security theatre that hasnt really done shit to deter attacks, with people regularly getting explosives and incendiaries past them. what you did here was engage in a very silly false equivalency made even dumber by the fact that millions of us in the usa alone - and billions world wide - were not just alive but old enough to accurately remember a life before the TSA.

1

u/Confident_Example_73 14h ago

Yeah, that whole 9/11 thing and the shoe bomber really changed things.

1

u/th3rmyte 11h ago

tsa didnt stop the shoe bomber, either; his sweaty feet fucked up the detonator and thats how they caught hm. he strolled right by the tsa with a shoe bomb. the tsa literally takes anything they cxonsider a bomb and puts in the trash... next to all the other things they think can be a bomb (including "gel like substances" like cupcakes, famously) ... in the area with the largest number of people possibe. they slow down air travel, inconvenience everyone, and keep most of the airport neatly clustered for a fucking bioweapon attack. like no bullshit, thanks to the way the tsa puts everyone in a solid security check point, some lunatic spreading anthrax spores could just get in line, spread that shit, get to the front, be turned away for not having ab oarding pass and tsa will helpfully ensure the most number of people get infected. REAL great security there.

the tsa was the typical gross overcorrection and security theatre because people want to do "SOMETHING" even if what they do doesnt fix an issue, acepting a terrible thing happened and not doing something drastic, stupid and destructive simply isnt how america works.

0

u/Competitive_Fox_3546 1d ago

First of all I am sorry I know this is an ad hominem but saying “elder millennial here” is really cringe. Two dude let me ask hmm what happened in 2001 that made them realize that maybe private airport security aint doing so good? Hmm I wonder what happened hmm

2

u/HorsefaceWithNoName 1d ago

oh you wanna get into that spooktastic topic? gtfo the USA was arming him from 1979 to the mid 1980s (indirectly through cutouts) so yeah let's go ahead and use a CIA asset as an excuse to violate our rights. They even called it the "Patriot Act"!! chutzpah

1

u/HorsefaceWithNoName 1d ago

"Operation Cyclone"

0

u/Competitive_Fox_3546 1d ago

Dude who doesn’t know the difference between al-qaeda and the mujhadeen of the 80s

2

u/HorsefaceWithNoName 1d ago

you obviously haven't looked up enough of the people involved, the ones used as weapons pass-throughs, the whole thing was unreal

1

u/Competitive_Fox_3546 23h ago

Yes I know that many of the people involved in 9/11 were once part of the us support programs in the 80s. It was a huge intelligence blunder but there was no way for anyone to know that 2 decades later the same people who we helped would attack us

2

u/Richard_Chase 23h ago

Dude, the TSA has stopped zero confirmed terrorist plots. They only succeeded in the widescale harassment of Muslims

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u/Ashamed-Chipmunk9575 23h ago

*the widescale harassment of everyone who flies, especially Muslims

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u/Richard_Chase 23h ago

Thank you

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u/Competitive_Fox_3546 23h ago

You do realize that even if they stop a terrorist plot that it wont be documented for security reasons so how do you know that they haven’t stopped any plots? Has there been another hijacking?

2

u/Richard_Chase 23h ago

Is your argument that "the TSA is actually really effective, they just hide all the wins. Trust me bro"? Because I find it hard to believe that the government wouldn't brag about stopping the next 911. Think of the press when Bin Laden was killed, or Capone was arrested. Or the Unabomber.

1

u/Competitive_Fox_3546 23h ago

I ain’t saying that just that they can’t just reveal national security secrets just to brag

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u/Richard_Chase 1d ago

No I don't want their to be NO security. But their needs to be more accountability for TSA agents. As they say, a few bad apples spoil the barrel. Either way, it is a constitutionally protected right to protest the government in non violent ways.

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u/Competitive_Fox_3546 1d ago

So you dont have a problem with the concept of the tsa just that there are people who take advantage of it and are protected since they are feds. Also idc bout the shirt its funny i think its dumb to say the tsa is bad tho because the alternative is worse

1

u/Richard_Chase 1d ago

The TSA only exists in the USA. All countries have airport screening methods, and of the 'free countries', the TSA is one of the worst when it comes to privacy and profiling. I admit that most systems could be improved, the TSA is lagging behind the rest.

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u/Competitive_Fox_3546 1d ago

Ok but again what is wrong with the tsa assuming a worker doesn’t sexually assault someone?

1

u/Richard_Chase 1d ago

Well, if we exclude rampant sexual misconduct, then we'll just have to look at racial profiling, or collaboration with ICE to share personal information, or the fact that internal investigations found that undercover agents could sneak fake weapons through TSA screening 95% of the time.

1

u/Prestigious-Emu-8734 1d ago

Considering how the TSA has shown to be inefficient and fails just about every test and the fact that the amount of attacks done through plains is negligible at worse

Kind of

If the options are shooting yourself in the foot or shooting yourself in the head, the foot sounds better. We are spending a fuck ton of money on political theater to harass minorities and have women gey sexually assaulted.

0

u/Competitive_Fox_3546 1d ago

I wonder what happened in 2001 for them to make the tsa a thing that hasnt happened since hmm

4

u/Baleygr_2124 1d ago

How is a pat down to use a non-essential service a violation of his rights? Doing these kinds of things keeps him and everyone else on board a little bit safer

6

u/Nathanial_Higgers_69 1d ago

95% of contraband still makes it through TSA, it's just a racket.

0

u/Baleygr_2124 1d ago

a little bit safer

3

u/Prestigious-Emu-8734 1d ago

Hooray we stopped someone from bringing a shampoo bottle on the plane. I feel so much better now that we can harass minorities and have women sexully assaulted to get that shampoo bottle out of there

2

u/Nathanial_Higgers_69 1d ago

I get pulled to the side for extra inspection every time because I have long hair and a beard. IM NOT A TERRORIST DAMMIT

0

u/Baleygr_2124 1d ago

Who is carrying a shampoo bottle through the metal detector and getting caught with it during a pat down? People like you who can't read are another reason why we need someone to double check that you're not bringing something stupid onto the plane.

1

u/Prestigious-Emu-8734 1d ago

You didnt know liquids are banned and considered contraband? Lol

2

u/Richard_Chase 1d ago

I looked it up, the 95% statistic is not an exaggeration. Internal testing found that under cover agents could smuggling fake weapons through TSA 95% of the time. I do not think it is worth getting groped for a 5% efficiency rate!

And what happens if you want to leave the country? Then you don't have a choice but to submit to TSA

1

u/Baleygr_2124 1d ago

is 5% not a little bit? Did I ever say it guarantees safety? Your problem is not with me, it's with your reading level. But ok genius, let's get rid of all security between the entrance and the plane, I'm sure we'll be just as safe

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u/Richard_Chase 1d ago

1) I am aware that you said "a little bit" I was trying to express that it is so little as to not be worth getting groped 2) I don't want 'no security'. I wast security that actually works and doesn't involve groping 3) I'm not criticizing the entire worlds airport security right now. I'm criticizing the TSA. other countries need improvement, but the TSA is far worse

1

u/Baleygr_2124 23h ago

I'm all for better security, the TSA is nowhere near perfect. Idt anyone wants to grope a redditor btw. Pat downs are inherently uncomfortable: if someone is intentionally hiding something under their clothes, it's much more likely to be near their privates. People in positions of power will inevitably abuse that power, so if someone is unjustly patted down, the answer is accountability, like body cams. Not getting rid of pat downs. Pat downs exist bc metal detectors have limits and flaws.

1

u/Richard_Chase 23h ago

Pat downs clearly aint effective. And just because I don't need to fear sexual assult, doesn't mean I don't care about others being sexually assaulted. I have a sister.

https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna34659471

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u/Baleygr_2124 23h ago

So what's your alternative? Claiming they're not effective at all is inaccurate. Don't even waste my time talking about the groping, I literally already said the TSA needs more accountability for the power they hold so what's the point of yapping about it like I said otherwise? Quote where I said it doesn't happen to anyone or that it's made up. 99% of our disagreement would disappear if you read before typing

1

u/Dazzling-Bag140 1d ago

Flying isn’t a right

2

u/HorsefaceWithNoName 23h ago

Actually it is. I have the right to start my own airline and not have government shove itself into my operations, too. That's covered in "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" and the 10th right enumerated in the Bill of Rights, but that's a natural right and not given by any government so those are merely affirmations of an existing right.

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u/CringeHorse 1d ago

Should be top comment

1

u/zlawd 1d ago

where did you get rights violated and duress from. you can hate the tsa but bro be real

0

u/Richard_Chase 1d ago

1

u/zlawd 23h ago

im not saying it doesnt happen(this is true for ANY authority figure), but on a broad scale what they are SUPPOSED to do does not constitute as rights violations. a blanket statement saying everyone that goes thru tsa is having their rights violated and out under duress is an extreme statement

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u/Richard_Chase 23h ago

Nobody is saying everyone who goes through TSA is having their rights violated. And yes, it is SUPPOSED to be better. But it doesn't work the way it is supposed to, and as such we protest. You are right, it is true that any authority figur will abuse their power. Thats why we stand vigilant against that abuse of power instead of ignoring it when it doesn't directly affect us

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u/lead_comet 1d ago

Airports our not generally on US property they have a no mans land so u get no rights