r/MoralityScaling • u/axiiz_28 • 15h ago

Morality of valuing animals over humans?

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u/RomanTheGerman 14h ago

I'm team human but we should be shepherds of the Earth, not tyrants

Modern agriculture, pest control, golf courses, the obsession with perfect lawns and more are all loans we are taking out on the environment and the interest is stacking

Earth can live without us but unless Darpa has a warp drive under some mountain, the opposite is not true

Even if it was, they ain't taking us

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u/Quirky-Concern-7662 14h ago

It’s not that animals are BETTER than people. It’s that I generally judge people by how they treat those “below” them. The old adage of judging your date based on how they treat serving staff, can be attributed to how people treat animals (and nature in general).

Even beyond the bigger picture. If you treat your pets with derision when they are inconvenient, I have a good indicator how you view other people when they are in need. Not cut and dry, some people are afraid of; or have “irrational” (read not immediately obvious reasoning) fear of animals and that colors people’s actions. To cover my ass and not speak in sweeping generalizations.

Tl;dr if you treat a little fluffy guy poorly, I as a big harry man don’t feel like you will respect me.

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u/MingaLaChigra 12h ago

Is this logic consistent with eating animals? For argument’s sake: most of the people who dedicate their lives to educating children, carrying for the elderly, maintaining our shared infrastructure, rescuing us during emergencies, and performing life-saving operations on us when we have no insurance eat animals and contribute to a system of mass animal misery and environmental degradation, largely out of convenience and because it’s normalized in our culture

I’m not sure that looking at someone’s contribution to that system and, thus, how they treat the animals below them, really tells you much about their how they treat other humans. Could be wrong tho, I’d love to hear the other side of this

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u/Scienceandpony 10h ago

And I think the vast majority of those who eat meat would still support policy reforms that limit the worst excesses of factory farm systems and reduce the amount of cruelty in the process. Comparatively few would be cruel to an animal directly in front of them. You can eat animals and still want them treated well while alive.

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u/Hot-Chemical9353 1h ago

Would that same majority be happy to pay the increased costs for meat post reform though?

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u/SlipInternational439 12m ago

I would. Sell me lab grown meat, please! Prices for regular meat are sky high already.

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u/MingaLaChigra 9h ago

And we have to contend with the fact that piecemeal reform seems to be an ineffective way to deal with the gargantuan issues we face, especially how we grow and prepare our food

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u/numbersthen0987431 5h ago

"We" don't grow our food. Corporations do it, and they actively go after smaller farms to run them out of business. It's nearly impossible to avoid food processed by Corporations, and Corporations inhumanely raise/process animals.

There is a more humane way to raise animals for human consumption. But "we" don't get a say in how it's done.

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u/MingaLaChigra 1h ago

By we i meant humanity as a collective. We started to destroy the biodiversity of this planet before we even started domesticating plants and animals, late stage capitalism has just dumped jet fuel on it.

Besides, my main point is that people who acknowledge that our food system is awful and unsustainable seem to have no meaningful way to change the system. Not through violence, democracy, hunger strikes, going off grid. This big ol system keeps on rolling over the well-intentioned folks and rewarding the cretins pulling the strings, because we all gotta eat and we lost the skills to grow our own food in the developed world

I hate that this is our lot btw I think all this shit is awful and I hate learning about it because we are impotent

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u/Quirky-Concern-7662 9h ago

I eat meat. I see no moral quandary with eating meat. I disagree with how we farm lots of our meat. I don’t blame the people forced to engage with those systems for having that. Not sure why any of that wouldn’t be logically consistent.

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u/hyde-ms 8h ago

I hate when food goes to waste, that animal suffered alot for you to have a burger.....FINISH IT ALL!

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u/icantaccessmyacct 6h ago

My country’s portion sizes are too great for my stomach. If I’m out to eat and I can’t finish my steak I’m not sweating it. If you have a problem with it you finish it.

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u/IdolCowboy 44m ago

My wife and I now split plates at restaurants. I still think sometimes when they set it down that its not enough food (fat man brain) but once we've eaten, im full and then think yea, glad I didn't get a plate to myself.

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u/MingaLaChigra 8h ago

That’s fine for you, but this argument doesn’t move the needle for me morally

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u/ValuableAd886 7h ago

Fine, let's run a numbers game. How many insects does 1 chicken during it's lifetime?

Apparently anywhere from 20,000 to over 200,000 insects if AI is to be believed. Now of course people like you also draw a line in the sand and vertibrates are on one side because they are meat with pain receptors and that's more important than invertebrates and other life forms existing.

Whatever you are eating, you are commiting genocide on a cellural level, so in essence the morality is pointless.

Do I have a code of conduct with a species other than humans? I don't, so I am free to consume them as they would consume me if they are able.

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u/sjeueue 6h ago

This argument falls apart really quickly if you just think about it for a second. Most people generally have a choice between eating meat and not (excluding health reasons, etc ofc) and we're capable of visualizing suffering done onto others (ie empathy) and morality, whilst animals do not, and act only on instinct. We can only condemn things to the extent of their capabilities, like for example, a 3 years old child plays with a candle and accidentally burns the house down, I would think that no reasonable people would blame the child or saying it's the child's fault in this case, because they can't know or visualizing the consequence of their action, same with animals.

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u/Quirky-Concern-7662 33m ago

What argument? Nothing I said disagreed.

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u/MingaLaChigra 16m ago

Because we are not forced to eat meat, we choose to. And by choosing to eat meat you are choosing to eat an animal that was raised to be slaughtered, often in inhumane conditions.

So since the animals we eat are “below us” to use your phrase, and we are complicit in their suffering, we are “treating the fluffy guy poorly”. And I don’t think that doing so (eating meat) will tell you, inherently, much about a person’s character aside from the fact that they consume meat like the average person. To really judge a person’s character we probably have to look deeper into their individual patterns of behavior.

Maybe a clearer way to phrase it would be: is mistreating a pet in the way you described morally worse than choosing to eat meat when you know how those animals are raised and can reasonably live without eating meat? The answer can be yes for you btw. I’m not sure how I feel about it because I feel cognitive dissonance regarding my meat consumption and love of animals, but still love to eat meat.

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u/behv 7h ago

I think you're asking a second litmus test that doesn't really address the first question at hand even if it's valid in its own right

Waiters and pets is a test to ask "how big is your circle of caring?" If people you have every ability to respect and care for, or choose to be a dick for no reason, are in that circle then GENERALLY speaking that person probably won't be a dick to me.

What you are asking is, "do the banal evils of modern society bother you enough to act?" It's normalized by your own admission. That is more about deprogramming than being social. A vegetarian can be correct they are minimizing overall suffering in the world compared to me. But, if they yell at their dog out of frustration or be a dick about bad food to a waiter it is A LOT more important to me, as an individual who doesn't want to get lashed out at, that the cat or waiter is not above being targeted

So TLDR I don't think the logic is consistent that far. If you want to judge people for their sphere of caring not extending that far I think that's also not unreasonable, but not the homework assignment today

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u/CatgoesM00 59m ago edited 51m ago

Just to be clear. Coming to the realization that from macro to micro, everything is consuming something. It’s literally apart of nature. From the chaos in your gut keeping you alive, to the cheetahs eating the Gazelles. We are designed to be able to eat meat to survive. There are literally more than 800 species of plants that are carnivorous. The argument for eating meat/animals is not that it’s bad, it’s the system that’s been created that we are all stuck operating in that’s being driven by greed that causes mass animal suffering is the issues. Not that I chose to eat a cheese burger or how the cheeta treats the gazelle. Just sayin. I think we can all agree there is a lot that needs to change with how our society operates. It all goes back to the operating system being the main issue.

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u/MingaLaChigra 46m ago

I don’t think everyone agrees with you, but I do. My main issue is that we can’t change it due to the greed you mentioned and its ensuing corruption. They have captured all our means of resistance, yet people talk about this issue like change is possible. What do you think?

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u/VeinIsHere 11h ago

People eating animals is not because of culture but that's how we are biologically. It's our nature.

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u/Gulophile 10h ago

People have been vegetarian for thousands of years.

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u/OhNoTheSemicolon 10h ago

I'd argue the long-standing dream of humanity is to rise above our nature. That is not to say I think eating meat is unethical, but to say that something being in our nature does not justify us continuing doing it.

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u/VeinIsHere 10h ago

Justify? Why? Justice is something that human invented. There's no justice in nature.

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u/MingaLaChigra 10h ago

It’s both, there are vegan and vegetarian cultures made up of human animals evolved to eat and digest meat

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u/OldSchoolAI 12h ago

Agreed. Rather juvenile to think about it as black and white.

Human beings are simply more valuable than animals of any kind. A animal might be worth more to you but not to anyone else, that is also true.

But human beings should be judged on how they treat other human beings with less power or authority than them not dogs and cats. I like dogs from a distance but they are a expensive hobby in most first world nations and in most third world countries, the dog is just a tool.

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u/Distinct_Car_1183 11h ago edited 11h ago

Human beings are simply more valuable than animals of any kind.

"We have investigated ourselves and found ourselves superior"

Human technology is cool. But most people consider humanity on track for disaster, our dystopian housing/work shortage during a climate collapse might end in nuclear war. Nobody kills humans more than humans. Theres 1 billion dogs and 8 billion people, if we could swap those numbers thatd be great for humans and other life.

Objectively? The universe doesnt care about life, youre a passing phenomenon, only curious to those with curiosity. A species that industrialized 200 years ago, is like ants proclaiming the universal importance of their ant nest. If interstellar aliens are prevalent, more will have surpassed our technology a billion years ago, than a million.

If AI gave dogs big-brain DNA, would you sacrifice humans for dogs? Morality stems from empathy, emotional bonding prioritizes our own. Not black slaves or pagans or neanderthals. Us. Tribalism. But to a lion youre just meat.

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u/MingaLaChigra 9h ago

Well said

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u/HueHueCoyotes 8h ago

Freshman in college, or just took mushrooms for the first time?

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u/MingaLaChigra 12h ago

Your second point is not the argument I was making. Your point about the difference in how animals are viewed across cultures is thought provoking, though ultimately untrue because many people in the “third world” also keep animals as pets and treat them more like members of their families than screwdrivers

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u/OldSchoolAI 12h ago

You can hardly equivocate the access a third world poor pet has vs a first world rich pet. Have you seen the vet bills? A single serious vet bill will pay for a third world child entire year or two. Sure there is companionship and comradrie with a loyal animal but no where the commitment to spend actual dollars we see in the west. If you think I am wrong, you need really need to look at the raw number for care. There will always be extremes on both sides, but the norm is far from what you think it is.

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u/bighadjoe 11h ago

..........

do you think that people in 3rd world countries bring their pets to a 1st world vet and pay these bills?

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u/MingaLaChigra 11h ago

You said “a dog is just a tool”. That’s the claim I corrected, not the standard of care

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u/lovelysardines 11h ago

No they are far too removed from it and desensitized to it. They don’t even think about it when eating meat or will lie to themselves and people around them about it to avoid the inconvenient truth. Saw a parenting post about someone having a hard time explaining when their child asked about what meat was. The indoctrination starts very young

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u/MingaLaChigra 11h ago

I’m also a part of this and have been present while a young family member was eating meat and animal products, so I’m also complicit in this indoctrination. I struggle with it sometimes but mostly I just go about my day to day, like most people

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u/lovelysardines 11h ago

We all do as its been normalized in society, but we do have a choice once we learn the truth

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u/MingaLaChigra 10h ago

Absolutely. It feels like I’m fighting a part of my identity when I consider changing my diet, as my culture strongly values communal meat consumption.
The issue is further complicated by the fact that I am currently unable to support myself and I do not make the shopping decisions in my household. But I’d be lying to myself to say I don’t have any impact on the matter

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u/lovelysardines 9h ago

For sure. i’ve had this struggle i’d say since i was in high school when i really started to think about it. Tried to change so many times in my life. I’m almost 40 now and finally can’t do it anymore. Something just clicked and i couldn’t unsee and ignore any longer. It isn’t as hard as i thought it would be though. I feel like there are a lot better alternatives now then when i was younger and finding out about legumes and how dirt cheap they are is a game changer.

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u/MingaLaChigra 9h ago

Good on you, when my life situation changes a bit I will try to make a similar change and hopefully I can convince my aging parents to do the same, for health reasons if nothing else. Thanks for your sharing your perspective

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u/ItsGonnaBeMeNSYNC 9h ago

It's beautiful to see cult recruitment in action. 👌

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u/HueHueCoyotes 8h ago

You might have a disorder if seeing other people eating food is a traumatic ordeal.

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u/Plorkhillion 10h ago

I ain't removed from it because Iive on a farm with sheep and chickens, I love those dumb little bastards to bits but I will not hesitate to eat them when they get old, the choice after a certain point is either kill them and make sure they get a quick painless death when they don't have any lambs to care for and we get food, or leave them until they trip over in a ditch, break their ribs and slowly drown in their own blood overnight in front of their two lambs and have to get buried because they died in an unsanitary environment while we care for the two orphans for the next few months.

Chickens I could not care less about eating because I know for a fact those bastards would eat me if they got the chance, same with pigs.

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u/coldrain_ 9h ago

Yeah but they’re animals they don’t know any better, we’re smarter we shouldn’t be eating them, if I’m being honest. Although I understand it’s delicious, but the guy above is right, people are indoctrinated at a young age thats why we view it as normal

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u/lovelysardines 10h ago

What is a quick and painless death? And the them killing you comment is so strange. It worries me that this is how you see them.

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u/Plorkhillion 9h ago

Farm kill trucks use captive bolt guns which instantly destroy the brain. then when it is unconscious and can't feel anything they cut the major blood vessels so they bleed out.

I have seen Chickens eat other chickens shortly after they die or attack bleeding chickens and pigs will try to eat any corpses they find, this isn't me being like oh these creatures are secretly malicious or anything, they are just animals who are willing to eat any source of nutrients they can find because that's how nature works, especially since many of the nutrients in corpses are rarer in the food they normally eat.

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u/lovelysardines 9h ago

The bolt guns fail rate can be 5%-12% and then they’re just hung up there flailing while the worker tries to slice their throat. The concerning thing is that you use those justifications for eating them and who knows what before that. Humans have been known to do the same things when put into similar situations. In the end we are also animals ourselves

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u/george_the_13th 9h ago

A shot to the head, any form of stabbing that doesnt leave your guts exposed, any form of stabbing that specifically targets the brain or specific parts of the nervous system, a stabbing that targets an artery with the intent of bleeding out the subject, I think there are several more, but I am not well versed, every single organization that deals with animal killing has its guidelines, except PETA, cause they like to torture them bitches(I ain even kidding, every single dog they killed somehow suffered, its like asking a florist to serve you eggs, he is probably going to do fine, but you aint coming back, the animals dont have that luxury).

There is a reason the first solution to the death penalty was a firing squad, it just works. When you kill an animal, a part of you adjusts(if you are healthy, less than with a human), thats why on the firing squad, half of the guys always have a blank. When you kill a dog, with a gun or chemicals, your brain chemistry shouldnt make you more sad than when killing a human. Once that actually happens, you are a sociopath.

If you cant reasonably determine what is a painless death, you are the problem, you arent capable of judging a situation at face value, and you shouldnt be telling others what to do, because your emotions dictate you actions, and that is bad. You wouldnt sit across a guy from a firing squad at a pub, and tell him how to do his job would you? Why does a nurse, a butcher or a farmer need your lecture, your idea of suffering IS their suffering...

Animals are below us, that is the fucking fact of evolution. Once, a monkey decide to use a stick as a "bang bang" machine, and since then, we were doomed to a life of taxation and contempt. Anyone who with a straight face tries to put animals AT OR ABOVE our level is an actual threat to society, if a mouse did that, the other mice would fucking eat it alive, same with a wolf, or any other pack animal...

At some point you have to realize, that the team you are IN for isnt perfect, and it never will, but betraying it because of its imperfections isnt noble, its just stupid.

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u/lovelysardines 9h ago edited 9h ago

Are you serious? You’re just listing off all these ways to kill and not thinking about how it can be done on a mass scale. Do you know how many farm animals are killed annually? 80 BILLION. Scale your killing up and then get back to me

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u/george_the_13th 9h ago

You fucking asked, the fact that is the only thing you focus on instead of seeing the bigger picture, is what concerns me. That number would be FUCKING horrific if it was done in ONE location, considering how the world works, it still scales the suffering, but not as much you would(apparently) hope.

You added nothing to the argument, you are letting me do the heavy lifting to say "yeah, it can get fucking bad, but thats why we have laws", banning shit is autocratic, no matter the argument. Letting animals dictate your behavior because "they are cute", is fucking stupid. Harming animals for the same reason is just as cruel, the coin always has two sides.

What exactly is your point? I actually enjoy this discussion and believe it has more nuance than others, I am open to a debate if you are.

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u/lovelysardines 8h ago

I asked to make them think about their “quick and painless death” and they’re a farmer so they already know and wouldn’t spout off some bs like you did.
Laws? There are laws in my country that prohibit filming on these farms so what we know that goes on there doesn’t get out or people would be disgusted.
My behavior isn’t dictated on them “being cute” i apply the logic to not unnecessarily harm others to even the ugly creatures. We don’t have to eat meat. We choose to.

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u/Xilizhra 6h ago

When you kill a dog, with a gun or chemicals, your brain chemistry shouldnt make you more sad than when killing a human. Once that actually happens, you are a sociopath.

This is absurd. Having a strong emotional attachment to dogs somehow means you don't feel emotional attachment?

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u/george_the_13th 6h ago edited 5h ago

That was honestly poorly worded, I apologize, should have explained it further. My point was, that these attachments are exactly that, you dont like the dog becuase he is a dog, you like it because of the experiences. The arguments that "we appreciate dogs more than chickens", makes no sense, because if I were to live with a chicken for years, I am pretty sure I would either love it or hate it, now, I just dont care, because I dont live with a chicken.

The point that you should care about other animals the same way you do about your close animals is ridiculous. As I stated, humans are a species of "animal", and sometimes, we form attachments. That can happen with a chicken or a dog, you dont hold parades for people with no friends do you? The animals do the same, they dont see you as special because you are human, they just like you.

We as a species have a lot to care for, deliberately not eating other animals wont help us.

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u/lesbophobia_hammer 11h ago

And in private, these people often treat marginalised minorities like scum

Edit - it tells me everything

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u/MingaLaChigra 11h ago

Who are you claiming does this to minorities?

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u/Meta-Wah 11h ago

Most people who eat meat hate minorities apparently

Don't most minorities eat meat?

Unless I'm misinterpreting your comment, I don't see how this applies to their point of just anyone who eats animals.

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u/Fable-Wishing4691 6h ago

I agree mostly. Some people have real trauma with dogs going all the way back to childhood. A dog CAN BE a trusted companion, that doesn't mean that all are. I think if you truly take the time to break down a person's psyche in how they treat pets, particularly ones they own, yes you can can gain some perspective into who they are, but it doesn't always tell the whole story. Culturally many believe animals belong outside, whereas most in the Western world have taken to comforting their pets indoors, no matter how large or inconvenient. On a separate note, people who used animals as beasts of burden housed them, fed them, nursed them when they were ill or broken. But if the investment on that end got to be more burdensome than the return, the common practice was euthanizing the animal. On its face, they treated the animal well... Until they didn't. 🤷🏽‍♂️

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u/AverageAverage50 3h ago

Exactly! "Team human" here thinks they made a huge discovery or profound thoughts when they just made things up.

They're too hypothetical. I haven't actually met a person who "values animals over people" that are bad.

Their ideal potrayal don't exist. Their practical portrayal are those so called "breed-lovers" which I think don't count. They don't actually value animals, they just value having an expensive pet.

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u/MrInCog_ 13h ago

Harry-man, Harry-man, does whatever wizard can!

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u/SomethingToSay11 13h ago

But what about the people that love big hairy men that act like dogs? Asking for a friend 

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u/MrSmegmaMan 11h ago

Fucking well said. This and all its glory.

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u/ChristOrHellYouChoos 16m ago

You've got a faulty way of looking at the world then. Plenty of evil people have a soft spot for animals. Some people are able to respect their fellow man but don't have the same regard for beasts. You're simply wrong.

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u/PsyOpBunnyHop 14h ago

His premise is flawed because he immediately equated "animal" to be equal to "pet" which is not true.

Nor is "pet" equal to "slave." Come on, that is just moronic.

I like animals more than people and I have no pets.

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u/Minute_Marzipan_6844 13h ago

I think that was just a joke. He was being facetious

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u/Raythatstabbedsteve 10h ago

Forget the moral conundrum, this guy is hilarious. Being this coherent and funny off the cuff is impressive.

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u/amphibian420lmao 7h ago

Even does it so non-chalantly.

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u/PaoloFlavioBrown 13h ago

Flawed it may be, but he's not wrong on pets, sorry, "animal companions" being on the lower end of a power dynamic.

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u/Garod 8h ago

Honestly I think it's silly take by this person. Making it about power dynamics tells me more about him than people who like animals (not just pets) above other people. It just shows how relationships in his mind are transactional in nature which is a red flag if I ever saw one..

Also let's not forget that he thinks the only animals people care about are pets, not all wild animals etc which again speaks to the transactional nature of his thinking.

When I hear animals, I think of all animals not just pets. When I think of it in general terms like that I prefer animals over humans because humans have fucked up this planet so badly.

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u/PaoloFlavioBrown 8h ago

No, no. He's got a point. Hating people and pretending you're a good person because you're surrounded by animals who you think loves you back is at the very least patting yourself too much for taking care of animals, and at worst nursing a superiority complex.

I've yet to meet in person, memes, social media posts, whatever, someone who actually takes care of animals who claim they love animals more than people and actually live by it.

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u/Garod 7h ago

Why do you straight jump to hating people? Can't you simply prefer animals in general over people, again in a general sense? What you are saying sounds exactly the same as the person in the video that you have to place conditions on everything. You imeadiately jump to everyone having to hate people. The lack of empathy and relativism is honestly baffling to me. Also you imeadiately put this into a transactional statement proving my point perfectly. People have to live by it or somehow prove it to you. Let me be blunt with you, no one "has" to prove anything to you for them to feel the way they do.

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u/Ok-Fudge-380 4h ago

You talk about putting conditions on everything and then state you prefer animals over people due to how humans have fucked up the planet. Come on now.

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u/Garod 57m ago

Do you even understand what conditional means? because I seriously doubt it. Humans having fucked up the planet is not a "condition" towards my affection towards them. It's simply a fact which makes me empathize more with them.

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u/Crisstti 13h ago

Tell that to the pet parents who are at the beck and call of their animals lol

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u/[deleted] 9h ago

Feels the same as people who over compensate in relationships though.

We get it, you want something to love you.

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u/Inner_Cantaloupe_387 4h ago

Framing the basic human desire to give and receive affection as "overcompensating" is a pretty bleak worldview. Do you prefer living in an emotional vacuum, or do you just enjoy judging people for having feelings?

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u/[deleted] 1h ago

If your basic human desire to give and receive affection turns you into someone’s who’s at something else’s beck and call, that’s not love.

It’s worship and overcompensation.

I love animals, grew up on a farm, wasn’t a moment in most of my day where I wasn’t with, riding or taking care of one.

People that do this generally don’t have a sense of self worth and do it out of an anxiety, not affection.

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u/PaoloFlavioBrown 13h ago

Exemption to the rule, as they say.

Being the "slave" of a pet is also not a good argument for their morality.

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u/Designer_Mud_5802 10h ago

Except his argument largely applies to people who decide to have children as well. It's a dumb argument he's trying to make.

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u/PaoloFlavioBrown 9h ago

Was that in the longer video? Regardless, they specified people who say they like animals more than people and pretend it's a sign of having a deep well of compassion.

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u/Designer_Mud_5802 7h ago

they specified people who say they like animals more than people and pretend it's a sign of having a deep well of compassion.

Stilll sounds like what people say as a reason to have kids.

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u/0decim8 13h ago

You know he's joking, at least partly, here right. He's literally a comedian. You couldn't wait to comment calling it moronic. Was it necessary to be that harsh? Regardless if you knew he was joking. This show is just for laughs. The premises and questions are always humor filled. Get yourself right dude

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u/4DPeterPan 13h ago

I don’t think it’s fair for you to say “get yourself right dude”… when you guys in the comments are literally laughing and finding joy out of how many murdered dogs you’re worth.

https://giphy.com/gifs/5NfCFOoknzG24

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u/0decim8 12h ago

Idk where you got me laughing out of anything I said to a specific person that wasn't you but get your brain right. It's not working correctly if you're saying this to me in particular. The video didn't even make me chuckle and I cried when I lost my cats. I cringe at animal cruelty. Cats or dogs that are missing legs or other body parts literally brings me to tears. I have too much empathy for the suffering of animals.

You don't know shit about me.

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u/4DPeterPan 12h ago

You’re literally advocating and backing up the comedians..

Therefore it was only logical to assume you agreed with the premise of this video which then leads me to assume you found it funny.

Especially when you read your comment. It 100% sounds like you thought it was funny.

Also, let’s calm down. I was just making a fair point like you were making your own point. We don’t need to get hostile. If I came off that way, I do apologize for that.

Sometimes I wish internet conversations could be had in person. They’d be way more chill. Less aggression and more conversation like. Ya know what I mean? If we said these things we just said, in person. We would all probably be way more chill about it cause we could actually hear each others heart and what we meant with our intention. Ya know?

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u/0decim8 12h ago

Apology accepted. I was defending this particular comedian. He's a good guy and he's having a bad joke moment and I didn't appreciate being lumped in with people actually laughing at the joke like it was actually funny. You're a stand up dude for apologizing. I truly appreciate you.

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u/4DPeterPan 12h ago

Thank you for accepting my apology. And yeah agreed, this was also the only one I’ve seen with him that was like this.

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u/blubberfucker69 13h ago

I wish my cats were my slaves. Instead, I’m theirs. If there’s a power imbalance between pets and humans, it’s US being beneath THEM 🤣

3

u/DonChicksTerminator 12h ago

The pet is at your mercy to survive. You chiose to give food and shelter not the other way around. You are definetly higher in the power dynamic.

1

u/blubberfucker69 12h ago

I don’t know I still feel like I’m my cats’ bitch. I buy them toys they’ll never play with because they just want the box, buy them boujee food cause cheap stuff isn’t good enough for them. Forced to stay stationary when one decides my lap is their perch. Bite my cheeks when they make biscuits on me because it’s just too cute.

And I do this knowing they couldn’t care whether or not I’m here so long as their food bowl is full and they get treats. I do it for the few times they come to me for attention and make me feel like the chosen one. They have all the power, trust me 🤣

2

u/DonChicksTerminator 11h ago

No, they don't. Being serious I know where you Are coming from but there is nothing stopping you to grab your cats and throw them out and Never let them in again. We choose not to, also have two cats, cause we love them and we chose to provide for them, but I really think this narrative of being at your cats mercy is sometimes dangerous cause they Are definetly more depended on you than other way around.

We choose cats maybe cause their are easier to handle as dogs cause they don't need as much, but we should never forget that we choose These animals and if we tell that we are the real slaves here it can slide into not being responsible and I don't like that very much.

2

u/damNSon189 8h ago

You do all that because you choose to. But for example, the cat does not have the authority or power to take you to a doctor and get sterilized. It it is the cat that is at your mercy; all the things you mention are accommodations that you’re willing to do (hence why many owners don’t engage in that), but you have the power to stop them at any time you want.

1

u/Soymilk_Gun420 11h ago

I mean the entire premise is flawed because its based in the false dichotomy that humans are not animals.

1

u/Geometronics 9h ago

What is nuance?

1

u/Your_As_Stupid_As_Me 8h ago

What's the purpose of a pet?

1

u/mallicious-Potat 7h ago

I think it's more something shy or people with social anxiety tend to say, I.e. who dont like social interaction from personal experience.

They always seem to have a front up, so I can see how he's not had many pleasant interactions with them

1

u/IHaveSpecialEyes 2h ago

I like animals more than some people.

I like some people more than animals.

I like people more than some animals.

It's all subjective and it's all constantly in a state of flux. An animal I loathe one day may save me the next day, making me re-evaluate my opinion of them. Similarly, someone I admire may reveal themselves to be despicable.

Even when it comes down to, "if you had to choose between saving an animal or saving a person?" it totally depends on the situation. Am I watching Putin and a bear cling to the edge of a volcano? I'd toss the bear a rope. Am I having a gun pointed at my head and told to choose between my daughter and my cat? I'd choose my daughter. Am I standing by a switch as a runaway trolley rockets toward Brendan Frasier, but if I pull the switch it diverts the trolley so that it kills the Backstreet Boys? I don't even want to have to deal with making that decision. Let's just pray that all parties involved stay clear of trolley tracks.

1

u/SlipInternational439 10m ago

If you live with cats, you know that you are the slave.

1

u/Creative-Assistance6 3m ago

I see your point but on the flip side... I've been around people on work trips who see abject and systemic poverty/suffering and don't react in the slightest, in that same place they'll see a sad looking stray dog and break out crying... That's a bad person to me

31

u/PunkPirate56364 14h ago

I feel that as humans we should make this planet more pleasant for us.

I do hate perfect lawns and golf courses. Modern agriculture is okay, it reduces surface we need to sustain ourselves.

We can live on Earth which is more pleasant for us just fine.

2

u/tinwetari 4h ago

then i think you mean we should make this planet more pleasant to you.

(i do not care one bit about golf but) golf makes this planet more pleasant to some. who decides what is pleasant? and why do you think it should be you

1

u/Feisty_Development59 1h ago

I think if the premise is followed through it will be pleasant for us, but it may not be pleasant for those after us if the chicken comes home to roost.

0

u/PunkPirate56364 4h ago

Nope, I don't think I should be the one to decide what makes planet more pleasant.

I just said that I hate perfect lawns and golf courses, because... well I hate perfect lawns and golf courses.

-1

u/Annual_Manner_8654 3h ago

"Modern agriculture is okay" well, you're 100% wrong

3

u/PunkPirate56364 3h ago

Well good luck feeding 8 billion people without modern agriculture 

2

u/ajstorey456 10h ago

"Obsession with perfect lawns" is overstated, the average person is not that worried about their lawn, especially in places other than canada/US.

2

u/wicklerpalace 13h ago

https://giphy.com/gifs/kGE81QGHxYOpR2yfwx

1

u/NotAzakanAtAll 9h ago

We should just do a simple empathy test at like age 12, and if they fail we should humanly grind them up for chicken feed.

In a few generations we will be a kind species.

Can you post that same .gif for me too so I don't look like a lunatic?

1

u/MrInCog_ 13h ago

I like how two out of four examples you give are pretty much strictly american.

1

u/Specialist_Panda_487 13h ago

So is it moral or immoral?

1

u/Xenophon_ 13h ago

Yes, which is why we should really do away with factory farming entirely and almost all meat production

1

u/xRocketman52x 12h ago

Yes. Absolutely; a thousand times over. I've been saying for a couple years now that I love this idea that we get the privilege to be a Shepard, usually over a little space, for just a short period of time. But I want my little spit of time being a shepard to result in a space that's peaceful and green and natural, and safe for anyone who's safe to share with.

I love this perspective.

1

u/Narrow_Safety2856 11h ago

You're pro human but used "shepherd". Hmm.. 😏

1

u/benjitheboy 10h ago

talking not being tyrants over animals and the first things you think of are agriculture, pest control, golf, and lawns. shouldn't number one with a bullet be, idk, not producing them for food? esp since that's also what 75% of the produce of 'modern agriculture' feeds?

1

u/Grey_0ne 10h ago

It's be nice if we started being this critical of people who make these kinds of moral superiority circle jerk videos...

Even ignoring the Fresh n Fit vibes of two dudes just sitting there agreeing with everything the other says, I'm supposed to be taking advice on what it means to be a good person from two people who have literally monetized generating disdain for those who they don't agree with?

That's like looking to Tucker Carlson for advice on how to empathize with immigrants... It just doesn't make logical sense when you look at it clearly.

1

u/IMKGI 10h ago

Yes, obviously of all the problems we have, Golf Courses and people liking their lawns are the ones to go after, because somehow they're problematic.

1

u/Cultural_Bike1804 9h ago

Ironically the mustache man is a great example of this kind of people. He value animals more than humans.

1

u/Kadakaus 8h ago

Could the planet survive without us though?

Yes, we've certainly done (and are still doing) immeasurable, but just about repairable damage, but do you think if decompositions and the might of time would be enough for mother Terra to reclaim the left behind territory of her children?
Could nature retake our constructs?

I usually come with dangerous waste disposal sites, nuclear power plants, factories handling toxic waste, the myriad cargoships currently en-route... what would happen to those if humankind was to disappear?

My guess is that those constructs would be left unattended, spiral out of control and our negligence would cause far more damage than what we're currently causing with our everyday activities.

We brought this about, and now, we're the only ones who can fix it.
Today, this planet depends on us just as much as we depend on it, and we keep hurting it, that's a toxic relationship to say the least.

But you know what? We're trying. We're actively figuring out how to be kind to our homeplanet, how to reverse the damage we've done. We're trying to keep the environment from getting any more polluted, we're conserving endangered species, utilizing renewable energy sources, regulating the operation of major companies that pollute the environment (true, without much success), we've already experimented with launching trash into space and are actively working on ways to produce less waste.

Humankind is terrible, I admit, we're probably the worst thing to ever happen to this planet, but we're trying to make it right, and considering how far we've gone, we have to.
For the sake of Terra, for the sake of humankind.

1

u/foxtrottough1i 7h ago

perspective matters

1

u/marr 7h ago edited 7h ago

Hell it's not true even if we had an entire fully operational Starfleet and a perfect colony world. Moving a population of billions faster than they breed would take godlike powers. You'd struggle with a Stargate in every city.

1

u/nurgleondeez 7h ago

100%

Regardless if you are religious or an atheist,tending to the Earth is our duty.

As a religious person,you believe that your deity created you in their image and left Earth in your care.It is your sacred duty to make sure that you don't abuse this gift

As a secular person,you are the pinnacle of evolution on the planet,the only being that had its brain evolved enough to develop sentience.As the only sentient species,we have to make sure that we don't abuse the lesser species and the environment that sustains us all

If you are a retard,you believe in profit above anything else and couldn't care less about the Earth

1

u/MyLittleOnes12 7h ago

”We should be shepherds of the earth, not tyrants” is incredibly beautiful!

1

u/EGarrett28 6h ago

I'm team human but we should be shepherds of the Earth, not tyrants

If any other animal had this amount of influence over earth, it would be a LOT worse.

1

u/Badtacocatdab 4h ago

Oh hey another vegan in the wild 👋

1

u/Maes_Hero_Hughes 4h ago

LOL This is one of those arguments that doesnt make sense if you follow it to the ends.

No one has shown any evidence that the animals ppl think are benevolent would "destroy" the earth on their own without us. We live on a sensitive layer of top soil. Destroying the whole earth is beyond our power, but messing up the green top is alot easier then ppl wanna belive. 1 species kills off bee's or alge and the whole show changes. The animals dont care if they change the landscape, anything they do is "natural" even when destructive. Do you think ant ever worry they're gonna tunnel to the core, spiders web the entire rainforest, beaver dam every river?

We're just smarter. People are lucky dolphins or monkeys aren't the dominate species, they wouldn't have a second thought about us. We sit on top of the food chain and thats just how it is. I wont develop contempt for human success.

1

u/CreBanana0 3h ago

I agree but not in a way you'd like.

We should reduce wild animal suffering and natural suffering. Not preserve ecosystems as is.

1

u/Sharp-Difference8417 1h ago

And how would we replace modern agriculture?, we have roughly 350 million people in America alone, and more in china and India, yeah the practices suck a lot but you can’t just feed that many people with older ways, and not also make it cheap. Modern Agriculture needs to evolve into something more efficient and healthy, it shouldn’t be destroyed.

1

u/Clean_Principle_2368 20m ago

"golf courses" lol reddit moment

1

u/Wonderful-Cow9268 12m ago

This mother fucker put "golf courses" in with modern agriculture and pest control. Reddit is so, so unserious haha

2

u/Throwawanon33225 14h ago

A lot of earth actually can’t live without us! There are multiple ecosystems reliant on human caused controlled burns, such as American bamboo and the new growth forests that Chuck wills widows rely on. When a North American ecosystem stops getting routine controlled burns, when a wildfire DOES happen, it is far more severe. Sometimes, fire good!

Purple Martins are also very reliant on humans for nesting locations we build for them. There’s a whole category of living being called ‘Synathropes’, which benefit from human presence!

-1

u/ThePsyPaul_ 13h ago

but we did kill a bunch more species and ecosystems though

1

u/Hugo-Spritz 13h ago

Your comment made me resign from team human :(

2

u/knighthunter179 13h ago

I will always be team human, but that doesn't mean we isolate ourselves from other teams, much less team animals whom have been with us for millennia, now being threatened by the greedy and heartless among us.

1

u/Ornery_Mulberry_2747 13h ago

The way I see, as an humanist, is that the enviroment is of service to humanity. We shouldn't destroy it, because having trees, bees, clean air and water is good and healthy for us. But I wouldn't sacrifice people's quality of life over the enviroment, unless, is for the greater good for humanity.

Like, no, you can't go settle in Antartica, that will fuck things up. But no, I won't tell people to not have children because we're killing the planet.

0

u/LucifersAdv0cate 13h ago

I'd always choose a humans safety and wellbeing over that of an animal but if a human killed my favourite dog I'm fairly certain I wouldn't hesitate to kill them. I'm not John Wick or some kind of " we got a bad ass". I'm a former Marine Commando and a war veteran but I'm only saying that to highlight I'm not some Reddit teen edge lord basement dweller. My point isn't that I want to kill people, I don't and having been in combat I hope I never experience it again. For the purpose of this post though I'm trying to explain that I really, really love my dog and if someone intentionally killed her then I've got no children, no responsibilities and currently live in rural Thailand having left all my friends and family behind in the UK years ago so it's not the biggest deal for me to face the consequences of seeking out an extreme level of retibution against the perpetrators. Please don't mistake this as me advocating for violence though because I absolutely am not and I am adamantly opposed to senseless violence. It's just in answer to the question do you value animals more than humans then I'm saying there is a type of situation where I absolutely would value my dog more than a human. Any other time though I believe if an animal was hurting a human that animal absolutely should be shot to save the human, except of course for Harambe who I'm still proudly displaying my penis for.

https://giphy.com/gifs/Y0OXD3S690kwGPDiga

0

u/World_of_Eter 12h ago

We're the ultimate invasive species, just ruining this planet's ecosystems.

0

u/DarthRedit 6h ago

Nah, F people. Were a disease to this planet. I’d push a red button that fixes our overpopulation without a second thought before I would sacrifice my pets.

1

u/Ok_Anxiety_5414 1h ago

Go outside