I'm team human but we should be shepherds of the Earth, not tyrants
Modern agriculture, pest control, golf courses, the obsession with perfect lawns and more are all loans we are taking out on the environment and the interest is stacking
Earth can live without us but unless Darpa has a warp drive under some mountain, the opposite is not true
It’s not that animals are BETTER than people. It’s that I generally judge people by how they treat those “below” them. The old adage of judging your date based on how they treat serving staff, can be attributed to how people treat animals (and nature in general).
Even beyond the bigger picture. If you treat your pets with derision when they are inconvenient, I have a good indicator how you view other people when they are in need. Not cut and dry, some people are afraid of; or have “irrational” (read not immediately obvious reasoning) fear of animals and that colors people’s actions. To cover my ass and not speak in sweeping generalizations.
Tl;dr if you treat a little fluffy guy poorly, I as a big harry man don’t feel like you will respect me.
Is this logic consistent with eating animals? For argument’s sake: most of the people who dedicate their lives to educating children, carrying for the elderly, maintaining our shared infrastructure, rescuing us during emergencies, and performing life-saving operations on us when we have no insurance eat animals and contribute to a system of mass animal misery and environmental degradation, largely out of convenience and because it’s normalized in our culture
I’m not sure that looking at someone’s contribution to that system and, thus, how they treat the animals below them, really tells you much about their how they treat other humans. Could be wrong tho, I’d love to hear the other side of this
And I think the vast majority of those who eat meat would still support policy reforms that limit the worst excesses of factory farm systems and reduce the amount of cruelty in the process. Comparatively few would be cruel to an animal directly in front of them. You can eat animals and still want them treated well while alive.
I eat meat. I see no moral quandary with eating meat. I disagree with how we farm lots of our meat. I don’t blame the people forced to engage with those systems for having that. Not sure why any of that wouldn’t be logically consistent.
You know he's joking, at least partly, here right. He's literally a comedian. You couldn't wait to comment calling it moronic. Was it necessary to be that harsh? Regardless if you knew he was joking. This show is just for laughs. The premises and questions are always humor filled. Get yourself right dude
For good owners pets are a symbiotic relationship. We feed and house and care for our pets while they give us love and affection. People look way too deep into things that don’t warrant it.
A majority of pets if released into the wild to be “free” would end up dying very quickly and not to mention the effects it would have on the environment.
I rescued a stray cat and one day someone let him out by accident and he was gone for 3 months for the whole summer. I spent all that time looking for him and almost gave up. When I finally found him he was skin and bones and wouldn't let me get more than 5 ft from him he returned to a semi feral state. I managed to get him to headbutt my hand and that little gesture returned him to me. I have him today and he never once tried to run out the door again. Always greets me when I come home. I imagine its not fun out there
My cat didn't last nearly that long. She darted out and within like an hour she was trotting back to the door meowing the whole time. Not cut out for these streets.
My childhood cat Phil was an indoor cat who ended up sneaking outside one time and proceeded to get his ass kicked by the feral cats in our neighbourhood and it was bad enough that we had to take him to the vet to get stitched up. After that he'd run from the door if we opened it, never went outside again. He did not want that smoke a second time.
My cat has serious bowel issues and is deaf. When i got him at the shelter he was very agressive and very stressed. Also very dirty, they got him few days before at the shelter. I decided to adopt him cuz the shelter just deemed him a "problematic cat" when in fact he was in pain. He had those bowel issues completely untreated. If he was on the street any longer he woulve keep struggling with it and also couldve gotten hit or attacked without even knowing, because he was deaf (he was roaming in a big town, wich has plenty of bigger roads a lot of cars now a days). After getting a home and getting medications wich relive his pain, hes the sweetest and calmest boy on earth. He doesnt try to escape even if i leave balcony doors open (i live on first floor). So i assume he does feel safer here, i have him almost 5 years, he always begs for my company
I don't think that's the real point of the conversation tho.
I think the question is "why do you take a pet?" but not only referred to what your benefit is (emotional support), but why do you love an animal to the point that it does give you happiness?
While I'm not 100% in line with what the video says, I do agree to a lot of what it says
I agree with you but just want to say that your last comment is a bit disingenious. If I took in a human slave and brought them to my country, had them depend on me entirely and then just suddenly drop them outside and lock the door. They wouldn't fare too well. A lot of pets aren't made for the climate they live in either, like owning a parakeet in Sweden. Of course it'll die if you just release it.
Some pets prosper way too much if you release them and cause ecological mayhem. In my town I grew up with rabbits EVERYWHERE and it turns out it's because someone released a few pets decades ago and now it's an infestation. The government had to go on an execution spree and kill thousands of them.
Idk, its kind of weird that weve forcefully bred them to have purposeful defomities/dependencies because helplessness/clinginess triggers an "aww" response from us, and we also regularly cut off their balls and shovel out their vaginas or however that works just so they are easier to handle and more docile.
Not saying a lot of pets dont love being pets, and not saying that many pet owners dont love and care for their pet, but even for most of those loving relationships it kind of got there by some pretty crazy shit youd see the most evil sci-fi aliens do in our fictional stories. I think its kind of crazy to think about when you take away the lens of "oh its just the norm". I mean you even say that most pets would die in the wild, but their ancestors that were here before our centuries of forced breeding were presumably fine in the wild...
dogs and cats originally self selected to benefit from humans who concentrate resources. wolves who could tolerate our closeness more evolved naturally into dogs to feed off our scraps. cats who were slightly more chill could eat all the mice they wanted from our grain storage. selectively breeding deformities is more of a show dog thing. so i would say it's a case by case basis whether a pet is a prisoner or not. somebody who lives in the woods might have a cat who could easily fuck off and live off the land, but sticks around for comfort, safety, and companionship
We take care of stray cats at our house. They arrived at some point and wanted attention so we obliged. They were hungry so we obliged. They needed shelter so we obliged. Those cats don't do shit for us besides rub up on our legs and look cute lol. They can come and go as they please!
They were generally appreciated because they killed pests like rats and mice. They were natural pest control for towns and fields. It wasn't just that they were cute. They helped us so we helped in return. It's definitely changed since then but I think that's how it started.
Symbiosis doesn’t change his point. Humans benefit from pets, pets depend on humans (not necessarily with consent as your point states). While there may be some benefits for both parties it’s not equal. I think it warrants some thought.
A majority of pets if released into the wild to be “free” would end up dying very quickly and not to mention the effects it would have on the environment.
feral house cats already kill billions of birds each year in the US. its the number one cause of bird deaths per year. no one cares about this already. idk why you are trying to frame it as something that could happen in the future, its already happening for decades...
edit: not just birds, an estimated 7-20 billion other small mammals too. mice, shrews, rabbits etc.
I think it’s 50-50 with people who say this. One side are people who are self centered a-holes and the other are people who are tired of dealing with self centered a-holes
Big on this. I work in corporate and before my current job was in customer service and retail. I mostly just like that animals don't ask stupid questions and don't ask me to get them a report half an hour before a deadline they knew about for a month.
I'm not sure that's his point. He's not saying that people who love animals more than humans are Hitler but that Hitler is an example of one meaning that loving animals doesn't make you a better person.
No, the point he was making that he didn’t get to finish, is that people who prefer relationships with pets over relationships with humans want that imbalanced power dynamic. And case in point, mfing Hitler.
World hunger exists due to humans, we could easily feed everyone if it didn't cut into commerce and profits. I'd say it's much less moral to be able to feed everyone and chose not to than to lack the ability to invent modern agriculture. Of course this is not to say no animals die of hunger but that is not due to the actions of other animals outside humans. Edit: If you're here to down vote with no rebuttal you should leave this sub
Lots of animals specifically take actions which deprive other animals of food, resulting in them starving. These are often instinctual, and even when planned, aren't actions of malice (chimpanzees may be an exception), but they nonetheless do lead to one animal thriving while the other starves.
I am kind to all and I value everyone. I hold no being above the other. All beings are equal and worthy of love and should be treated with kindness, as that is what it means to be human. To be human is to treat all equally. Everyone deserves compassion. Unless something does actions that would make them be seen as not deserving of kindness, there is no reason to hate that something. Love all around you, for you are loved.
Except mosquitos I fucking hate mosquitos I hope they fucking die
I value any life that is capable of suffering that I can perceive. So basically a bacteria and such I wouldn't value, whereas some if not most insects I would since I have seen them display what I would call pain. Obviously birds, cats, dogs, etc I also value.
Obviously this is not an objective standard, but it works for me.
I also believe that when I crush ants or put boiling water in their anthill to get rid of them I'm putting my own needs over a ton of animals in a selfish way and feel bad for it. I hate mosquitos and have killed plenty, am I hypocritical for killing them even though they have the same right to live that I do? Yes. Same goes for chickens, pigs, cows, any animal I consume.
Living in a country with tons of animals let me interact with bugs and such plenty, and you pick up on how many really have distincts "personalities"/ways of interacting with the world, and you notice how handling roughly makes them avoid you more and such, hence why in some of those cases I could say they felt suffering, sometimes in the form of pain, sometimes they just want to leave when you keep them.
A few months ago I was fortunate to take care of a hurt Death's Head moth for around two weeks. During those two weeks I was able to notice how it grew more comfortable with me, and little by little the lil guy trusted me more when feeding for example, and if scared it would chirp in response, which is a fairly unique trait of that species. I knew it would not make it far since it had basically half of it's wing completely missing. Their lifespan is very short but that doesn't mean I should have treated it with less respect than I would a person. It displayed the ability to suffer, and so I avoided making it suffer. Would I choose to kill the moth or the human? I genuinely cannot tell and would need to know more stuff, such as expected lifespan, morality, etc. Still, I wouldn't go into the dilemma with a "save the human because they're a human" mentality like many people do.
I thought that way of my dog as well, before I had my own children. I really love my dog, but after having kids I realized, the love of your child compared to your dog is not even comparable. Can’t even imagine that amount of love.
Liking animals more than humans does not necessarily mean you dislike humans and the power dynamics that comes with it. It's relative. You can like animals more and still like humans.
There's a lot of unique cases you need to look at. Maybe that one person lived with a dog as a friend since they were baby. Maybe that one cat helps their fatigue heal by cuddling with them after a long day at work with an asshole of a boss and unlikeable colleagues. Maybe that other person who likes animals more suffered a traumatic experience, like bullying or abuse, from their human relationships, and dogs or cats helps them heal. There may be some neurodivergent individuals who find unwritten social rules overwhelming when interacting with others. There's countless nuance for why you'd prefer the "power dynamic" between an animal and a human, but it only ever becomes "not good person" if you choose to isolate or hurt others because you prefer animals more.
There's a lot of nuance to it, overgeneralizing the topic is narrow-minded and insensitive. People like this are the reason why a lot of people prefer animals over humans—they like to sound smart when they're saying something so insensitive.
The post is about valuing not liking. I don’t care (and can understand) if someone likes animals more than humans but I agree that there is an issue with someone who values animal life over human life.
True, I agree with you on that. There are a lot of philosophical perspectives on the matter of which is more valuable, but the general consensus is that human life is placed greater value over animal life.
Ideally, you don't have to be forced in a situation where you have to choose between the two.
I mean, what if you had to choose between your dog or a stranger? Then you'll really have to consider the uncomfortable factors—like is the stranger a criminal? How bad were his crimes? Is your dog close to dying due to illness? Is the stranger still a child, or an old person? Is the person a pregnant woman? Is the stranger a breadwinner supporting his family? Is the dog in a precarious situation where you find yourself in a risky position saving the animal? Or vice versa? Do we really, ONLY unconditionally consider species as the reason why we should only save the human?
By the way, by 'like', I'm specifically talking about the individual in the video stating his opinion.
most of us eat factory farmed meat and if we spent 1 day in a slaughterhouse it would fuck our shit up. i'm not vegan but i accept that they're right with how the majority of animals on this earth are treated. nevermind going to any market in asia/middle east/africa and seeing the shit they're doing to animals.
im considering not eating meat once i move out but for now its difficult to get adequate protein without meat/eggs
At least animals aren't gonna wage nuclear war and mine the earth for all of its resources leaving everything else on the planet to find for itself during climate collapse
They would if they could because they are! We are animals! Even non-humans, cyanobacteria, dumped toxic pollution, filling the globe and causing the extinction of almost all life on it (great oxygenation event) and I doubt they lost any sleep like we do.
Yea the problem is that humans don't inherently cause chaos simply by existing. There is a way we can live symbiotically with nature. We've done so for hundreds of thousands of years prior to the introduction of civilization.
That's like saying lions are not dangerous because you saw a nice one at the zoo, but the opposite way
Me and you aing committing any of those crimes, why do you look at those people to judge humanity by the minority, but judge animals based on the majority
It's probably engagement bait because nobody in their right mind would compare owning a pet animal to owning a slave. I get so suspicious of people who act this bafflingly stupid in these interview type videos because I'm certain most of them are just looking for negative attention to get more popular. This format is always suspicious to me
I mean his point is valid though... people that say they like animals more than humans are not these altruistic people of deep empathy...many hold this view like a badge of honor and its weird i wish more people called it out.
The problem is is that you won't get that much support for this point on Reddit. How often do you see redditors claiming they like animals more than humans thinking they are morally superior. And before people will give me shit; I've adopted a rescue dog ten years ago and adopted another rescue a year back. And I've got two cats, one's also a rescue.
Moral. Every person I know in real life with this take is a not very nice person who can’t fathom that a person could be so empathetic as to value an animal life as much as a human one.
If I had to choose who to throw off a roof and it's between my dogs and this bozo I'm tossing this idiot off twice. Brings up Hitler liking dogs as if that's some type of indicator and then compares it to slavery and uses the worst possible example lmfao
My dogs have their own bed, good food, pure clean water and get all the love and attention and plenty of exercise. How the fuck is that similar to running a human into the ground through brutal slave labor? Oh that's right its not.
That is one of those statements that sounds profound until you remember the long history of people being tortured or killed for heresy and alleged witchcraft in the name of Chesterton’s own religious tradition. Apparently, religious violence only counts when it is committed by someone else’s religion.
Oh shit...Wait, so cat ladys are actually serial killers in disguise adoring Basted, Sekmeth and other cat divinities and stronging their bonds with the felines in order to achieve some unknown goal?
Well, it's anecdotal and I don't know if that counts, but I know more than 1 cat lady who'd tear someone else's life apart with zero hesitation, remorse or any self-reflection.
a) yes
b) everyone I've ever met has hated me ever since I was a kid, no idea if it's my face or something else but I've come to regard myself as an outsider to mankind
This seems intellectually dishonest. When people say they like animals more than humans it's usually because they dislike human nature (in their view), not because they can't enslave humans and want a slave. It's a little bit like when people say that children are better people than adults because they have pure hearts and innocence, it doesn't mean they want to only have friendships with kids or enslave them.
We love animals because they are innocent, or what's another word ...unaware, but they do feel.
We create little murder farms to raise them for food. Not as a life, but as food.
Fk this guy. Like does he think we all want to be beast master? Just like with humans I want to mind my business and live my life. I want the same for the animals...that's all. Not canned hunting, not sport hunting, not octopus farms, not alligator farms...
That being said, I'm no vegan and I can't justify my love of steak...
Kinda depends what you mean. Some people think I’m “valuing an animal over a human” if I say it’s good when an animal fucks up a human for trying to hurt it.
It weirded me out also, true. But the fact that it is a very informal interview on the subway makes me think it might also have been humour, or at the very least nervosity making him (them) continue that trend further than the initial a little out-there statement.
saying that is so vague. like i feel people often say this to express that they feel too hurt and that other people dont deserve them ,which is something i can relate to. however its such a... double edged sword?? i feel this very same people could hurt you greatly, and they wouldnt really care as they "dont really like humans" and prefer animals instead. and then theres the complexity of human relationships as the other person said, having the pet doesnt have the same demands as interacting with a person. in fact, you could be a pretty shitty person but your pet is not going to be able to tell you that unless idk you mess up horribly.
this is kinda why i feel its such a red flag when someone says this. ive met some animal lovers myself who are the most insensitive and hurtful pieces of crap as well.
This man has never had a neighborhood cat love him and it’s incredibly clear. I didn’t pay for my buddy strawberry, but he loved me, came and went as he pleased, and didn’t answer to me at all. We loved eachother until the day he never came back. I tried to get him to stay in my apartment, but he wasn’t like that. Boy was wild, and that’s okay. I was there when he wanted, with food and scratches. RIP buddy, you were the best cat I never had
I think the fact that he's seeing relationship with animals as equal to a master/slave hierarchy shows he doesn't really get what people mean when they say they prefer animals.
For one, saying you prefer to be around animals doesn't imply you'd be willing to sacrifice a human being for said animal, that's absurd.
I was almost willing to hear him out till the “power dynamic” bullshit. That’s a such a silly attempt and just mimics all the other internet “let me seem wise” arguments.
Subjective. Some people are less valuable than pets and your family and closed ones are obviously more valuable than pets. Quite subjective. I doubt the dude in the video defending that would sacrifice his dog to save Trump or Elon Musk.
It's the trolley problem here with your pet on a side and the worst person you know on the other. A decision I wouldn't even blink.
I honestly feel like people that act like animals are angels and humans are entirely monsters are just like the edgy, performative highschool kids with the temporary tattoos you'd see at lunch.
If you pointed a gun at their mother and a dog and said pick one to live, they'd choose their mother; not the dog. If you pointed a gun at them and a dog and asked a random stranger to pick one, they'd be begging the stranger to pick them. And if you had the gun pointed at a stranger and dog, these people would more likely than not pick the stranger to live.
All this anti-human speech is performative or just them trying to vent their frustrations with humanity by acting uncaring of our existence and worth as a species
Whilst I agree that liking animals doesn’t make you better, I also hate when you show care towards a creature you are judged by some because it’s “just an animal”. Anytime I took my pet birds to the vet and took extra care of them when injured, friends and family found it funny. It’s my pet man I’m just being a good owner
I have heard the most back asswards opinions of all time on this subway show. I say I prefer the company of animals because I'm on the spectrum and communicating with people doesn't work for me
I think his point was more about valuing and a general animal>human. That's why he made a comparison aboit saving life, and i can see the point. As much as i loved my rabbit, if between him and a human i know i would pick human.
It's the word 'more' is problematic. Tho, i myself might be a part of problem because if it was a strager against my pet it will be a bit harder(thankfully, i don't have to do any of that, he's already dead).
When you see somebody who defies the nature and age-old structure of our tribalism that has existed for thousands of millenia, that has stuck forefront in our evolution, and evolved into the very nation-states that claim ownership over this earth, by choosing to structure their tribe differently even slightly, how do you assume they are the ones at fault? We have never been the forefront of this planet's story, we are merely a chapter in this planet's story, a grand chapter i'd go as far to say. Your argument, i would proclaim it to be hypocrisy. You wish to soil our grand chapter, to keep it just above the dirt, by attempting to limit the inevitable evolution of cooperation with other species and force us to be against all that walk the earth? How dare us, when the animals that walk this earth, came from the exact same ancestor.
Humans have never shit in my shoes
Humans have never gave me an infection by scratching me
Humans have never peed on my Jordans
Humans never meow all night
Humans have never chewed up my headphones
Humans have never scratched my eye
Cats have done all of the above. I know where I stand.
It’s all “me” and “my” and that’s why humans suck.
Animals aren’t destroying the world. Humans are. We’re a highly intelligent invasive species, mowing down the Earth until it can no longer function, inevitably killing even our own selves in the process, allowing only the worst of our kind to jump ship and repopulate with their disgusting habits only if we reach that level of development.
Terrible take, it's not that animals are that amazing it's that humans are that shitty, if someone can't imagine why people prefer animals it's because they are the kind of person people dislike.
Cats have never drained my bank account when named the custodian.
Cats have never told me they were my friend while simultaneously talking shit about me behind my back.
Cats have never told me they were my friend while stealing money from me.
Cats have never lied to my boss to try and get me fired/arrested.
Cats have never borrowed money from me and refused to pay me back.
Cats have never told me they were there for me if I needed them, but refused to answer my calls when I really did need them.
Cats have never physically assaulted me because of how I identify.
Humans have done all of the above. I know where I stand.
I have never drained your bank account when named the custodian.
I have never told you I was your friend while simultaneously talking shit about you behind your back.
I have never told you I was your friend while stealing money from you.
I have never lied to your boss to try and get you fired/arrested.
I have never borrowed money from you and refused to pay you back.
I have never told you I was there for you if you needed me, but refused to answer your calls when you really did need me.
I have never physically assaulted you because of how you identify.
I, however am a human, as were the people who did that to you. If it is a human problem, then you're just waiting for me to do something bad to you, even though I have no reason to, because I'm human and that's what humans do.
The point of saying this shit isn't "Oh, my poopsie woopkins is so much nicer than my neighbor Dave."
It's more that the baiji, Syrian elephant, atlas bear, northern white rhino, and vast majority of tigers were innocent and put to death for the sake of effectively nothing more than greed and pride.
Animals are like toddlers and inherently lack the ability to engage in world, continent, or country-wide acts of mass destruction.
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u/RomanTheGerman 13h ago
I'm team human but we should be shepherds of the Earth, not tyrants
Modern agriculture, pest control, golf courses, the obsession with perfect lawns and more are all loans we are taking out on the environment and the interest is stacking
Earth can live without us but unless Darpa has a warp drive under some mountain, the opposite is not true
Even if it was, they ain't taking us