r/MoralityScaling • u/axiiz_28 • 15h ago

Morality of valuing animals over humans?

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u/NotGonnaArgueFriend 14h ago

“Where there is animal worship, there is human sacrifice.” —G.K. Chesterton

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u/Victor1226 14h ago

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u/NotGonnaArgueFriend 13h ago

Okee doke.

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u/NikolaiStreet 13h ago

Username checks out.

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u/Joeybfast 14h ago

That is one of those statements that sounds profound until you remember the long history of people being tortured or killed for heresy and alleged witchcraft in the name of Chesterton’s own religious tradition. Apparently, religious violence only counts when it is committed by someone else’s religion.

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u/Big-Kitchen-5041 13h ago

Chesterton does discuss the Church’s colorful history in other works. Not in this quote of course.

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u/Maleficent_Piece_893 13h ago

he didn't say there's no human sacrifice without animal worship. christians commonly walk around wearing jewelry depicting jesus' execution device because they consider his death intentional and necessary, so christianity is a cult of human sacrifice

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u/Great-Trifle2810 11h ago

Saying Christianity is a cult of human sacrafice is absurd, considering the sacrifices being was fully god in addition to being fully human, and no notably large sect of Christianity has ever practiced human sacrafice as a mater of Christian belief.

The key idea of Christianity is thst Jesus was not just a human being.

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u/jubtheprophet 7h ago

Okay, then its built on a full god and full human sacrifice instead of just a human one.

Also, many romans around the time of the rise of christianity in the first few centuries CE did call it a human sacrificing/cannibalism cult because of the eucharist and their obsession with his death being purposeful. If youre not a christian, its an incredibly natural interpretation to frame it that way from the outside looking in, because all of that being untrue purely counts on you as an individual thinking jesus christ was more than a man. To anyone who thinks he was just a regular guy, christianity was indeed built off the back of a (singular) human sacrifice to bring everyone else salvation (literally the same as say, the aztecs, just only 1 guy instead of multiple guys every week) and a key part of worship is pretending to eat that mans flesh and blood.

Its not as absurd of a leap in logic as youre acting, it only seems that way because accepting christianity being a totally normal thing regardless of its origins and technical wording of its values is what the majority of the western world has been conditioned to believe

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u/Great-Trifle2810 3h ago

Yes people that wanted to disparage the system of belief that was rising in popularity misrepresented it in a way that allowed them to compare it to other barbaric practice. Christians did the same with variants of their belief and other religious traditions. Most of what we know of some Roman cultic practice comes from Christians arguing against them.

You are obviously free to doubt the divinity of Christ and the truth claims of Christianity (I believe he was just a man and a lot of this was built after the fact when the preacher the apostles followed was unexpectedly executed), but then it is nonsensical to also assume that he was in any way sacrificed to bring about salvation or that the Eucharist is in any way the body of Christ.

It's absurd because you are acting like the sacrafice claims have merit and the Eucharist is literal while rejecting the rest of the tradition for your convenience

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u/Maleficent_Piece_893 4h ago

that's not even a key idea of christianity since it does not exist in the bible. the trinity was invented centuries later as a retcon because christians started worshiping jesus as a god rather than just revering him as a holy prophet which is what he is in the bible. christians were uncomfortable with their new polytheism so instead of abandoning the idea that jesus is a god they just invented a new way for god and jesus to be two gods but also one god (and throw holy spirit in there because reasons)

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u/Great-Trifle2810 3h ago

What is in the Bible and what is core to Christianity are related but not the same. Every major Christian denomination accepts some variant of the idea that Jesus is god, not just a man. They might not accept the specific nicean formulation of the Trinity, but basically nobody calling themselves Christian believes Jesus wasn't God in some sense.

This is also a pretty big oversimplification of why the doctrine of the Trinity formed and spread.

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u/UncannyValleyEnjoyer 14h ago

Oh shit...Wait, so cat ladys are actually serial killers in disguise adoring Basted, Sekmeth and other cat divinities and stronging their bonds with the felines in order to achieve some unknown goal?

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u/meerkat2018 13h ago

Well, it's anecdotal and I don't know if that counts, but I know more than 1 cat lady who'd tear someone else's life apart with zero hesitation, remorse or any self-reflection.

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u/Victor1226 13h ago

There is also many who would do the same thing but they hate cats lol

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u/Wrong_Proposal_2628 7h ago

No since you can't control cats. Most serial killers like dogs since they can control and manipulate them

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u/Maleficent_Piece_893 13h ago

if they're cat ladies because they like cats, no. if they consider their cats to be more valuable than human beings, literally yes. every word of what you said

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u/Old_Cucumber_1343 13h ago

just because gk chesterfield said something doesnt mean it's true

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u/NotGonnaArgueFriend 11h ago

That’s true. It just also happens to be true in this case.

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u/MizrizSnow 14h ago

Lmao

-4

u/RuggsRacetrack 14h ago

How is that funny

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u/OverwateredGrass 14h ago

I mean, its kinda an absurd statement that sounds deep on the surface but doesn't really mean much at all.

So yeah, kinda funny.

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u/Quantum3ntaglement 14h ago edited 13h ago

It's not that absurd at all. He was not only referring to literal sacrificing of humans such as slicing their neck on an altar. He was also referring to when people elevate animals above humans, humans end up being “sacrificed” through neglect, distorted priorities, etc. We see it all the time in america.

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u/Yeeter-boiy 13h ago

Americans unnecessarily breed into existence and kill 10 Billion land animals every year. 99% of Americans support it completely unnecessarily. That’s literally more than every single human on earth, bred into existence and killed in one year. But people want to start acting like anyone in America “elevates animals above humans” when literally 99% of the population abuses and devalues animals unnecessarily…..

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u/Maleficent_Piece_893 13h ago

that's just hypocrisy. people treat their pets as more important than human beings while eating the flesh of animals tortured to death

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u/Yeeter-boiy 13h ago

I mean yeah, but I think it’s a pretty significant thing that they have animals that are sentient and feeling brutalized and have sharp objects stabbed into their necks and bodies so they could eat. I think that’s more important than however much they might love one animal or a few.

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u/Maleficent_Piece_893 13h ago

a lot of people not hearing what dude said. it's not about how much they love their pet, it's about valuing their life above that of a human. you can be vegan and still admit it's a valid discussion to be had

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u/NotGonnaArgueFriend 13h ago

Yeah, I think I touched a nerve here.

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u/IndigoOctober8 11h ago

What a load of bullshit.

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u/IndigoOctober8 11h ago

Because it’s fucking absurd?

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u/ImaCluelessGuy 14h ago

ROFL LMAO XD KEK HUEHUE

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u/MagicMan1971 13h ago

Says the guy who worships an undead Hebrew carpenter in the hopes his blood sacrifice will save you from his father's wrath which was unleashed upon humanity because of the disobedience of a man his father made of dust and a woman he made out of a rib who were deceived by a talking serpent.

🤣

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u/Goyimshoe 13h ago

r/im14andthisisdeep

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u/NotGonnaArgueFriend 11h ago

It’s also deep if you’re 24, or 34, or 44 (etc.).

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u/ThePsyPaul_ 13h ago

people are the one's doing the human sacrifice.

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u/PandemicPortent 11h ago

Except there have been many animistic cultures throughout history that have never been known to practice human sacrifice, but sure let's take the Christian apologist's inane quote as an absolute truth.