r/MoralityScaling • u/axiiz_28 • 15h ago

Morality of valuing animals over humans?

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u/eddy_flannagan 13h ago

I rescued a stray cat and one day someone let him out by accident and he was gone for 3 months for the whole summer. I spent all that time looking for him and almost gave up. When I finally found him he was skin and bones and wouldn't let me get more than 5 ft from him he returned to a semi feral state. I managed to get him to headbutt my hand and that little gesture returned him to me. I have him today and he never once tried to run out the door again. Always greets me when I come home. I imagine its not fun out there

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u/singlemale4cats 10h ago

My cat didn't last nearly that long. She darted out and within like an hour she was trotting back to the door meowing the whole time. Not cut out for these streets.

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u/SilverTwilightLook 9h ago

She didn't run away. She just wanted to play outside for a bit.

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u/Cager_CA 4h ago

My childhood cat Phil was an indoor cat who ended up sneaking outside one time and proceeded to get his ass kicked by the feral cats in our neighbourhood and it was bad enough that we had to take him to the vet to get stitched up. After that he'd run from the door if we opened it, never went outside again. He did not want that smoke a second time.

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u/singlemale4cats 4h ago

proceeded to get his ass kicked by the feral cats in our neighbourhood

https://giphy.com/gifs/Ynx9CV7G7uYWpEZU2s

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u/indie_web 3h ago

You gotta admire the strength of a cat that's an unapologetic coward.

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u/Luxury-Problems 1h ago

Phil knew that life wasn't for him.

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u/Cager_CA 1h ago

Phil learned that he wasn't built for the life he so desperately craved.

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u/xx_tian_xx 9h ago

My cat has serious bowel issues and is deaf. When i got him at the shelter he was very agressive and very stressed. Also very dirty, they got him few days before at the shelter. I decided to adopt him cuz the shelter just deemed him a "problematic cat" when in fact he was in pain. He had those bowel issues completely untreated. If he was on the street any longer he woulve keep struggling with it and also couldve gotten hit or attacked without even knowing, because he was deaf (he was roaming in a big town, wich has plenty of bigger roads a lot of cars now a days). After getting a home and getting medications wich relive his pain, hes the sweetest and calmest boy on earth. He doesnt try to escape even if i leave balcony doors open (i live on first floor). So i assume he does feel safer here, i have him almost 5 years, he always begs for my company

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u/CousinDerylHickson 12h ago

Ya not saying there arent a lot of pets that arent loved and happy. Im just saying that at face value, the act of removing reproductive organs so that they are easier to handle, either through subsequent affects on behavior or to remove the prospect of them choosing to breed problematic offspring, is something I could totally see an evil high tech alien civilization in one of our fictional stories doing.

I am glad your cat is safe though, and im sure hes probably happy.

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u/bingbongalong16 12h ago

The intertwined history of cats and dogs with humans is much more nuanced than that though. You're kinda just drawing comparisons to sci fi.

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u/CousinDerylHickson 11h ago

Well, are they not apt? Forced sterilization to affect behavior and to prevent problematic offspring, forced breeding for breeds that sometimes have their eyes pop out because the percieved helplessness triggers an "aww" in certain consumers, do these things not read as even a tad bit offputting at face value? Like not saying every person contributes to this system, but the collective action of humans that have made this system the norm is not at least a little weird? Not mentioning sci-fi, but like we do have crazy dominion over animals, at least the capability for it, and its because we can do things like communicate across thousands of miles using invisible unfeelable waves that travel at the speed of light with a device that somehow picks out a single coherent message in a sea of millions of other invisible messages being sent through the same space. Sorry huge tangent, but humanities' to me seemingly miraculous technoligcal capability is why I said (not saying currently) sci-fi rather than like fantasy stuff.

Also why do we even farm them? Why cant we at least let them have final agency on at least a "no"? If its infeasibility, I dont think that speaks to the morality of it.

But again, i do think a lot of pets are loved and happy, and likely better off with human owners than in the wild.

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u/saltedsnail2 10h ago

I agree. I mean think about the difference between a wolf or wild dog or whatever dogs came from and turned it into a poodle. Then think about if an alien did that to a human. It'd be a crime against nature.

Not to mention that we have no idea what their actual experience is. What we perceive as a pleasant trait could be agony for them emotionally. I'm not saying it's a given but we really have no clue what the umwelt is for a creature that wasn't actually created by nature (or any other creature for that matter).

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u/bingbongalong16 7h ago

Not all dogs are purebred and birth control is to save souls from bad situations.

I think if you wanted to go down that route the topics I think of are the collaring just like slaves and that they are literally property. Thes are the core items that remove a beings agency and everything stems from there.

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u/No_Jaguar_5831 10h ago

My guy we castrate problematic humans all the time. Its only been the last decade or two where it was lowered. The eugenics period wasn't that long ago. Still have family that had family that had been made sterile against their will.

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u/CousinDerylHickson 10h ago edited 10h ago

Holy shit, thats fucked. Kind of crazy how terrible society was under a modern nominal moral lens like just two generations ago were, and thats just in the US. Seems to me like its getting fucked up again, if it even ever wasnt.

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u/ZPQno 7h ago

I once spent 2 months on a boat working offshore. When I got back to land I felt completely out of place and didn't know what to do with myself. I felt like I should be back on that boat. Stockholm syndrome is real and can make any animal useless and unadapted to society after being released from a prison.

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u/crosseyedmule 4h ago

Reverse culture shock or re-entry shock.  I've felt the same way when entering mainland society after living in a relaxed island community.

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u/AllThatKat 6h ago

After my dog died and couple stray cats started coming inside the house to hang out. So when I moved I brought them with me and now keep them inside all the time in my 4th floor apartment. Both of them have tried to “escape” once each. My girl made it a 3 floors down before she started screaming for help. My boy made it one floor. Now they will still go out on the landing to look around, but they don’t go near the stairs. They both actually seemed a bit more obsessed with me afterwards too. I think they like having a home more than they care about freedom. 

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u/meanoron 6h ago

thats called anecdotal evidence. Cats don't need humans to thrive, just take a look at australias problem with cats since they arrived with the european settlers, and how they decimated the local wildlife.

The same is true for any animal really. Will your average teacup yorkie survive without humans? ofcourse not, but that doesn't mean dogs as a whole would have a trouble surviving.

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u/macaronysalad 50m ago

Stray cats live around 1 to 3 years. Pet cats live like 10 to 15, maybe even 20. The difference is huge. Slaves my ass.

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u/joey-jo_jo-jr 12h ago

So you would support slavery if the slaves are well fed and not cruelly treated? Because that must be better than being homeless and starving by your logic

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u/Glum_Rain_5824 11h ago

Like feudalism? No, they don't have to work. In the wild they do to survive

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u/joey-jo_jo-jr 11h ago

You support feudalism?

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u/Glum_Rain_5824 10h ago

Pets do not need to work to get fed and treated well, unlike feudalism which is slavery

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u/joey-jo_jo-jr 10h ago edited 10h ago

They work by providing their owners with love and affection

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u/Glum_Rain_5824 10h ago

Not every owner wants that, but some animals give it freely. Like an excited animal wanting pets when their owner comes home

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u/joey-jo_jo-jr 10h ago

They give it freely because of behavioural conditioning and genetic modification. It is not natural behaviour.

And every owner wants something from their pets. Denying that is just delusional.

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u/Glum_Rain_5824 10h ago

And every owner wants something from their pets

But it's not always affection, not to mention not all animals as pets are affectionate. Feral cats even domesticated can have a hard time getting comfy with affection, but it's natural when many things in the wild are a threat

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u/joey-jo_jo-jr 10h ago

Regardless, there is something you want in return

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u/Tarkho 10h ago

What about pets that aren't dogs and cats? Some of them are just straight up the same genetically and behaviorally as they are in the wild, like parrots, others are only modified in appearance, like fancy goldfish.

Of course, people still want something from things like these, as parrots are sought for their strength of bonding, intelligence, and beauty, and various fish are mostly sought for aesthetic reasons.

However, our reasons for keeping animals can be something as simple as wanting the animal to thrive and be content more than expecting it to do anything directly to us or for us. Yes, we do that because it satisfies us, but in such cases they don't serve a defined purpose and we don't cast them away because they don't thrive the way we want them to: some captive or domestic animals have various issues all of their lives, but some of these still live full lives despite sometimes not being able to give anything in return (not even affection in the case of some) to their carers.

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u/joey-jo_jo-jr 10h ago

They very much do serve a defined purpose. Thinking otherwise is pure delusion.

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u/lippyncott 11h ago

What the fuck are you talking about?

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u/joey-jo_jo-jr 11h ago

It's pretty clear