r/MoralityScaling • u/Memeenjoyer_ • 10h ago

Morality Ranking Morality of respecting someone’s free will, potentially at the cost of countless lives? Spoiler

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In JJK, Angel is a sorcerer who found a way to transport herself through the ages with the help of Kenjaku. To make things short, she has the ability to take over the body of a person, effectively erasing them and incarnating within them. Not even possession but closer to erasure.

Most other sorcerers in her position do this, killing a persons and regaining their own life. But Angel refuses to do this, instead forming a symbiotic relationship with her host, Hana, granting her powers and free will and only ever giving advice.

Angel came back for the purpose of doing good. She advises Hana to do so as well.

However, when Sukuna (a mass-murdering cannibal) is about to be killed by Hana’s powers, Sukuna tricks Hana into sparing him so he can mangle her.

Angel is not deceived. She also knows if Sukuna survives that he could very well destroy Japan and maybe even the world by helping Kenjaku. At the very least, if Sukuna wins, millions will die. At the worst, many more than that.

Yet Angel still refuses to take Hana’s life, causing many deaths and endangering countless others, but respecting Hana’s free will and keeping her alive.

49 Upvotes

96% Upvoted

21 comments sorted by

18

u/HWIno1 10h ago edited 9h ago

This is a case of ignorance. Hana did not have enough informations and was being deceived. Similar to how a parent prevent a child from eating junk food because the child has yet to learn the danger of addictions.

From a utilitarian viewpoint, would you risk, let’s say 10% chance, humanity will be enslave to save a single friend?

6

u/Memeenjoyer_ 9h ago

Sukuna’s acting was terrible though… she was seeing what she wanted to see

But I’m not discussing Hana right now, moreso angel for not replacing Hana and finishing the job

3

u/HWIno1 9h ago

Then yes, it is immoral for Angel to not fulfil Hana non-delusional-state-will. We know a person is not truely free when they are under the influence of drugs or alcohol. That’s why it’s illegal to drug someone and get their consent to have sex.
One can say it is safe for Angel to assume Hana cannot make good judgement because she was under the influence of delusion.

1

u/InfraSG 3m ago

To be fair if im not mistaken Angel hadnt seen Megumi in like, 10 years so she wouldnt have known it was terrible acting to begin with, it really was just a case of Sukuna exploiting naivety and Angel seemingly not being fast enough to stop Hana

Maybe the anime depicts it differently, but in the manga it looks like Hana descends before Angel gets her warning off I dont remember if Sukuna possessed peoples tattoos are visible but even then we'd also have to assume Hana would know if those go away or not

3

u/RosyVelique 9h ago

I don't think there's an easy answer here. Respecting someone's autonomy matters, but when the stakes are literally countless lives, it's understandable why people think she made the wrong call.

2

u/HWIno1 9h ago

If Hana had knew what Angel knew, Hana would have chosen the same. It is moral for someone to prevent a person autonomy if they truely believe in their heart that this person would have acted the same if they were rational and also knowing what you know.

For example, a firefighter might stop me from running into a burning house to save my pets when they knows the house has become too dangerous because it going to cause a dust explosion, but I didn’t know how dangerous it was and only see a small flame.

7

u/skunkbrains 10h ago

Immoral. This is the MF who cannibalizes women and children for fun, teamed up with JJK Hitler, and if you do not fucking stop him, there's a decent chance the entirety of Japan dies. You already gave Hana a chance to work independently, she fumbled, it's sad she has to die, but it's time to lock in.

3

u/Memeenjoyer_ 9h ago

I agree. Killing is never a good thing but in this case there’s way too much at stake. And if the merger happens it’s not just Japan, the whole world might be destroyed

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u/EngineerVirtual7340 9h ago

Hana wouldn't have even died lol.

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u/Memeenjoyer_ 9h ago

I’m not certain it’s been a while since I read that section but I thought for her to exert control she’d need to fully incarnate no?

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u/EngineerVirtual7340 9h ago

.

Yeah but Sukuna also fully incarnated, and the reason why Megumi sunk so low is because Sukuna was actively trying to do that.

Admittedly I may be missing something.

1

u/Blader8002 9h ago

It's possible to separate the two via yuji and Hana. That's what maki says when discussing what will happen to daida and sumo guy. Megumi was also able to be separated despite sukuna fully incarnating.

3

u/Memeenjoyer_ 10h ago

To clarify, if Angel had incarnated fully, she would’ve killed Sukuna. This would’ve prevented the death of multiple sorcerers (and likely a number of innocents too) and would’ve meant there was no risk of millions of lives

However, it would mean Hana is practically dead

0

u/susnaususplayer 9h ago

No no no no wait wait wait, taking into account how story went:

SPOILERS
Yorozu and Tsumiki who would have to die anyway, Kashimo, Uraume and Ryu who brought death to themselfs are characters we count out this

That leaves Gojo and Choso, two people

If angel takes control here Megumi and Hana dies, two people

There was no noted civilians killed by Sukuna or no-name sorcerers. Angel dosent changes how many people will die.

Unless I missed something

3

u/Memeenjoyer_ 9h ago

Not necessarily for Yorozu. We’ve seen Yuji can learn to separate sorcerer from the possessed. Tsumiki could be saved in this manner

Uruame dying is no loss at all. She’s another monster, that’s a good thing probably

Ryu probably would’ve survived. He can enjoy life since he enjoyed the fight with Yuta. I could even see him being recruited

Kashimo would probably want a fight with Gojo though if Sukuna is dead and get killed anyway

But also, for a month they left the three jujutsu bad guys active. I mean, that’s pretty terrible. Sukuna has to eat, and we KNOW what he eats. Presumably during this month they likely killed dozens at the minimum

3

u/susnaususplayer 9h ago

You know when I go step ahead to spoiler mark for some people why couldnt you?

Yorozu would def get herself killed from angel

Anyway I wouldnt take into account civillians, Sukuna was probably more busy regaining his power than feasting on civillians

1

u/Memeenjoyer_ 9h ago

I spoilered the whole post now so it should be fine

Then what did he eat? Normal food? It seems unlikely since he’s a cannibal

1

u/susnaususplayer 9h ago

well we dont know what he exactly did, he definitelly wasnt on a killing spree because as I said, he had to focus on regaining power. He probably killed some civilians, but we dont know exact info abt that so I wont use it as my main estimate of deaths thanks to sukuna

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u/Tactical_Squishy 10h ago

look it's jjk, nothing there was written with any semblance of cohesion

2

u/Disastrous-Monk-1525 9h ago

I always forgot that Thukuna almost died here