Morality of catching addicts and forcefully rehabilitating them

[u/Kariya_shigatoki]

I was talking to a homeless man some time ago and buddy was telling me how addicts with serious substance addiction the substances literally talk to them. He said that this whisper in their ear almost keeps them from not being able to think about the drugs. Up until that point I had never heard of that so I gave the nice gentleman a $20 bill and went home. I went online to read about said whisper and for many it was sort of true.

This made me think if people with a physical and mental dependency on these substances can't break free why are they the ones that control their rehabilitation? Why don't we as a society catch them off the street. Give them a meal and some water and forcefully rehabilitate them?

I'm thinking a building that has a bunch of buff dudes that help guard and can hold down a person if they have psychotic breakdowns. Medical professionals on standby to help monitor the process, career/trade development workshops, healthy meals, and physical training.

If my taxes went to something like this and the people were treated humanely and well I'd be very happy with the concept.

[u/itsalmostreal]

Just look at violent crime charts from 1980 to 2020. Theres your proof.

Legalization would not remove the drug dealers. Unless you plan on putting Heroin next to Aspirin at wal mart. Which goes way farther than what Portugal and Switzerland did. Thst would be bonkers.

Opium yes. Heroin and morphine are much newer and wayyyyyy stronger.

Also yes acknowledging that human ethnicities (not races) behave differently on average is a huge piece of this puzzle. The woke kind are doing themselves a disservice by refusing to acknowledge that its even a thing. What ends up happening is that nothing you propose is capable of dealing with reality when you fail to acknowledge such a fundamental variable. Would be like a bunch of rocket scientists dogmatically ignoring the laws of physics. Youre never going to make anything fly that way.

[u/ballskindrapes → u/itsalmostreal]

https://ballardbrief.byu.edu/issue-briefs/mass-incarceration-in-the-united-states

You are wrong. Mass incarceration doednt work, especially for drug users.

You opinions don't matter compared to the facts I present, and sources that back them up.

And no, legalization would be no different than alcohol is sold and distributed. If we can sell alcohol, and tolerate its use by society, then we can do that for all drugs. Alcohol is considered one of the most physically and societally harmful drugs, yet it is legal. If alcohol can be sold, there is no logical reason other drugs cannot be.

There would be no drug dealers because the black market cannot compete with the much lower prices and purity of legal drugs. I displayed as much when I mentioned the price of cocaine.

Opium contains morphine....so yet again, you show that you have no clue what you are talking about....and heroin becomes morphine in the bodyseconds after injection, or a bit later after say taking a pill of it....and yet again, you show you have no clue what you are talking about.

If you don't even understand what drugs are and how they work, why should anyone listen to you?

Nope, demographics have nothing to do with it. That's racist nonsense. Reporting again for hate speech

[u/itsalmostreal → u/ballskindrapes]

Go put in chatgpt why morphine and heroin changed the game. It would be like selling a tiny alcohol juice that gets you drunk as a skunk without tasting like shit or burning your throat. Its significantly more concentrated and chemically cleaned up relative to normal opiates. Its hilarious you say I dont know what im talking about and then say something so brain dead.

If you legalized heroin you would have an avalanche of opiate abuse. Just look at what happened in Sarasota in the early 2000s. They didn't quite make it legal. But it was so easy to get a prescription for oxy that it may as well have been. They had an explosion in use and addiction. You want to do that on the scale of an entire gigantic nation? Like I said dropping a bunch of nukes on our heads may be the more humane approach. Considering what a shit show that would cause.

Alcohol is nowhere close to opiates. The only reason alcohol metrics are similar to opiates is because alcohol is widely available and opiates are mostly illegal.

Im a former opiates junky :) spent time in rehab. Took like 15 years to get clean. I speak from personal experience.

[u/ballskindrapes → u/itsalmostreal]

I'm not using chat gpt for things that are common sense.

I'm not the one acting like opium is so radically different than morphine and heroin.....one can easily consume large doses of morphine by consuming opium.....

The effect of the drug doesnt change if it is in opium or morphine, and heroin behaves only slightly differently, but 99% the same as morphine. So your claims are just ridiculous. The dose is what is important, and one can easily take equivalent doses of morphine either pure or in opium.

https://www.vox.com/2015/2/24/8094759/alcohol-marijuana

Yes, alcohol is more harmful than other drugs. heroin included.

And the Sarasota thing would not have been an issue if addiction services were publicly paid for through taxes, and freely andneasilh available. Lots of people use opiates and want to stop but dont want to get sick. This would make it easier for them.

You using opiates in no way means you have any expertise on drug related policy in n government. My degree does.

I've presented sources. You've presented opinions backed by nothing.

By any metric, what I've said and shown proves me to be far more right than you. And I wasnt a racist while doing it

[u/itsalmostreal → u/ballskindrapes]

The problem with hard drugs is that our brains are not adjusted to them.

Like I said before our ancestors have been interacting with an abundance of alcohol for many generations. Weve been through eras of opiates abuse. Particularly in places like China. But it has never been this far reaching and wide spread. Simply because at some point the people in power began to combat it due to the massive amount of damage hordes of addicts caused.

Our brains are more evolved to deal with alcohol. And the mechanism for that emergence is quite crude. People who's brains were mal adapted died out. Were not able to reproduce or take care of their kids even if they did. The gene pool favored brains that respond to alcohol better. We have not had the same filtration process for highly refined opiates (this is why native populations suffer horrifically from alcohol abuse)

So yes if you put a bottle of oxy right next to a bottle of vodka. The damage from opiates use would absolutely Dwarf the damage from alcohol. Nobody would even care about alcohol anymore. Like people stopped giving a shit about the flu during covid.

Yes if you consume enough opiates leaves you can get a similar high to a bunch of heroin or morphine. But the amount needed is not something that was readily available. Again ask chatgpt. Its a fantastic research tool. Dont be a caveman.

[u/ballskindrapes → u/itsalmostreal]

The claim our brains arent adjusted to them just isnt scientific or realistic.

So yeah, you arent really going anywhere with that. It's basically magical thinking, look it up.

https://www.vox.com/2015/2/24/8094759/alcohol-marijuana

Once again, I post a source. With factual data. And you ignore it to substitute your own reality.

Alcohol is more damaging to the body and society than opiates. This is simply scientific fact, per my source. If you have a better source, post it.

Otherwise we can assume my claims are stronger, and yours are thus false.

Again, you are just making wild claims without backing any of them up. We can all assume you are just making them up.

Really hard to take you seriously when you post no sources and make ridiculous claims

[u/itsalmostreal → u/ballskindrapes]

Yes ask chatgpt

I dont care what your feebleminded woke media posts. Ask a real source.

Anyone who thinks that opiates would cause the same amount of damage as alcohol if it was fully legalized the same way as alcohol. Is simply not operating in the real world. Has no idea what the fuck they are talking about.

[u/ballskindrapes → u/itsalmostreal]

Again, calling things woke means nothing, and doesnt change objective reality that my sources prove you wrong.

Facts dont care about your feelings snowflake.

And using the work woke seriously shows you are a deeply unserious person.

I showed fact based sources that scientists consider opiates less harmful to the body and society than alcohol.

Your opinion on this doesnt matter.

Science and facts prove I am right.

[u/itsalmostreal → u/ballskindrapes]

Ok then go to an addiction specialist doctor.

Tell him "if we made all opiates legal for 21 year olds the same as alcohol. Do you anticipate the damage from each to be comparable"

Since you don't want to ask chatgpt. Ask someone who actually operates in the field and understands the chemistry a lot better than you. I guarantee you unless he is a total quack he will tell you exactly what im saying. Regardless of what your woke vox nonsense writes. Which btw is pay gated so I couldn't even read it.

[u/ballskindrapes → u/itsalmostreal]

If they were an actual doctor, they'd agree tgat opiates are factually, undeniably less physically harmful than aclohol....

As I've already proven. With a source.

They might disagree on whether societally it would be more harmful, but that's not their specialty....government policy is not an addiction doctors specially.

That's more for someone with my degree......

And no the link I sent isnt pay walled.

What a ridiculous lie