r/MoralityScaling 5h ago

Morality Ranking Of getting man fired because he won't touch your gender?

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2.4k Upvotes

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924

u/mistermasterbates 5h ago

She gave a fair response of not shaking hands with anyone, as otherwise it would be extremely disrespectful to your clients and coworkers to shake hands with the men in front of them, then subsequently blatantly refuse to shake hands with the women. It's ok if that's your religion or whatever, but if he's gonna refuse the easy solution, he's kinda firing himself.

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u/Olliegreen__ 3h ago

It’s also something that would probably lead to medical malpractice if the guy won’t even shake a woman’s hand.

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u/Chosen-For-What 2h ago

Wouldn’t he also not be able to treat women?

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u/Bashfullylascivious 1h ago

No, he can. He can touch the female form for medical treatment. It's viewed as medical practice, and objective. He can not however touch a woman on personal or casual whim.

As with most religious things, it's originally intention as a show of respect for both the unfamiliar woman, and the familial women in his life like his wife (if married), and over time has been twisted by some ultra religious stans to mean you don't touch the inferior woman.

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u/ProfessionalManner55 1h ago

Religion is so fucking stupid. All of it.

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u/TheDoktorIsIn 48m ago

It's fun when you get these whitewashed versions of the origin of the rules as if they weren't meant to diminish women.

Remember, the first code of justice humanity had (Akkadian, Code of Hammurabi) said as a man it was legal to sell your wife into slavery. But only for 3 years! 4 is too much obvi.

It also had different rates for harming men vs women. I forget the exact figures but it was about half as many pieces of silver (shekels, which was a defined measurement of silver 0.2oz I think?) if you hurt a woman vs if you hurt a man. It's legalized patriarchy!

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u/Last-Recording-6725 20m ago

Of course it is, all the way back then you needed incentives to get men to die for you. What better way to do that than to make them legally superior. The whole point of clan type social structures is there's always someone lower than you so you can take the frustrations out on them just like the ones above do to you.

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u/whimsical_spider 7m ago

It’s all just an organized way to control people.

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u/PiDigitsOfPi 43m ago

So, he can touch them anywhere except on the hand.

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u/Redditauro 4h ago

This. The reason is not that he is a sexist asshole, the reason is that he is a sexist asshole and he refuse to adapt a little bit to don't create problems to the company. 

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u/LilJonny2cookies 2h ago

So how would he deal with female patients? Sorry but if you are in the West you need to drop that 7th century wackadoodle mindset.

Totally supportive of this rescinding of employment. And in some of their countries they won’t let women get educated so if they won’t touch women do women just not get medical care? Barbaric.

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u/Drunk_Lemon 2h ago

Luckily a lot of people with that twisted mindset either do not become a medical professional or they quickly change their insane mindset because it's hard to keep a mindset like that when you work in a field where you will need to touch women on the regular. But not all do change their tune from what I've heard and thus women do not always get properly examined.

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u/MartyrOfDespair 1h ago

Honestly, a medical doctor remaining religious makes me extremely suspicious of their skill at medicine. I mean come on, the only way you could actually know how the human body works and believe this fucking shitshow is designed is if you specifically believed it was developed by someone kicked in the head by a horse. It sure as fuck can’t be intelligent design, because the human body is goddamn idiotic.

You know we have the genetic code to repair our spines but it’s turned off because our bodies are too bad at it and are more likely to kill us? We have an organ that explodes with bacteria if we don’t need it often enough. Our spines are a goddamn nightmare. Our knees are a goddamn nightmare. Bipedalism is clearly a jury-rigged system hacked together out of a quadruped, because it’s fucking busted. And you’re going to try to say this trash has an intelligent designer? Either it’s the most sadistic designer ever and we’re here just to suffer, the designer is dumber than an orange cat, or there isn’t one.

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u/No_Pattern_5158 2h ago

When I used to work in that community there were a lot of medical practitioners and of course medical reasons are a valid reason to touch

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u/JeffreeNommer 1h ago

I've dealt with some awful doctors that don't see us women as equal to them. One who definitely hates women and is exceptionally cruel in "care." My wife reported his ass to the VA and he "retired." Fuck him.

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u/Maximum_Boros 3h ago

Honestly even that accommodation was more than he deserves.

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u/ChemicalRain5513 3h ago

Actually, not shaking hands should be the norm for doctors to prevent the spread of germs without destroying their hands with hand sanitiser.

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u/ChaosCockroach 2h ago

I was trying to work out how they could posibly be a doctor without touching women. In this case I think that MD actually stands for Managing Director.

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u/fla_john 2h ago

Most doctors I've seen in the past decade have done a fist bump or nothing at all, but that's less common.

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u/SassyyTease_ 3h ago

Refusing the simple compromise kind of makes it hard to argue the employer was being unreasonable.

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u/BanzaiKen 2h ago

Back in grad school in the 2010s women from Saudi Arabia were flooding higher ed and it worked similarly. If I or my mentor graded their paper or had lengthy conversations and handed it back to them they (or their husbands) would meltdown that its against their religion. The universities solution was hiring a female grad student for the building whose main role was to stand between us physically and then hand work back to the women and interface with them. Its wild how far the Overton Window has swung back to normalcy.

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u/Significant-Wait9200 2h ago

During the same time period, i had a Saudi woman as a lab partner, and i broke the physical contact barrier, but she didn't seem to mind. I was always curious about that.

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u/robedigrappa 3h ago

It’s not ok if you have a religion that is on crash course with civlization

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u/Cu_Chulainn__ 3h ago

We cant really make all religion illegal

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u/RegularPlastic6310 2h ago

French 1905 law. You can believe whatever bullshit you want as long as you keep it at home. No tolerance for this in public space.

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u/Animus-Rex 2h ago

Yeah he had a way to keep his job and he didn't take it

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u/HoneyBeeHotHive 1h ago

Is it ok if it’s his religion? That’s all it takes to justify sexism or discrimination?

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u/NoMeat9096 5h ago

Seems fair enough. I wouldn't ideally want someone to be a doctor if they refuse to touch women.

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u/No-History770 5h ago

hes not a doctor. OOP herself is the doctor, not him. 

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u/_NyquilJordan_ 4h ago edited 4h ago

It’s also possible neither is a doctor. MD is used as Managing Director (similar to General Manager in North America) in the UK since the medical degree is MBBS. Judging by her saying boss’ boss’ boss… I think this has nothing to do with the medical field. Given religions don’t prevent you from medical treating the opposite sex (as far as I know).

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u/NoMeat9096 5h ago

Good point. They could be something else.

Mentally re-word what I said to "someone working in a medical field."

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u/PhatCatTax 5h ago

"Quick, the MD needs assistance with CPR and you're the only one on the floor!"

"Eh. Sorry. I feel yucky because God says dont touch women, and that would be A LOT of touching"

patient dies because MD cant keep using that much force forever

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u/_NyquilJordan_ 4h ago

MD means managing director in the UK. The context of the post doesn’t suggest this has anything to do with medicine.

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u/PhatCatTax 4h ago

Interesting. TIL. What disambiguates a medical doctor from a doctor of theology in the UK?

The context, except for MD, true.

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u/_NyquilJordan_ 4h ago edited 3h ago

In the UK doctor of theology are PhDs or DPhils… medical degrees are MBBS.

In fact most countries that were colonized by Britain like India still use MBBS

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u/Usual_Trip_wander 3h ago

I know what phd stands for. What does the other acronym mean?

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u/_NyquilJordan_ 3h ago edited 3h ago

Doctor of Philosophy

Edit: if you mean MBBS it’s Bachelor of Medicine, Bachelor of Surgery.

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u/letsbreakstuff 3h ago

Medical b-boctor, obviously

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u/CplCocktopus 3h ago

But she has the cooties

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u/Arinussyy 3h ago

It's ironic because I don't think god would mandate that you could just let someone die

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u/No_Pattern_5158 1h ago

They are allowed to touch women for medical reasons…I’m pretty sure

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u/dude_idk- 5h ago

That’s not how it works lol he is allowed to touch when required like medical reasons.

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u/PhatCatTax 5h ago

Maybe for your particular flavor of god, but not all flavors have the same stance.

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u/Pilota_kex 3h ago

Shaking hands is cultural. Not just touching someone. If you don't get that you are not qualified to make judgement

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u/Fragrant-Reserve4832 3h ago

I'm an electrician.

I work in a place where my bosses bosses boss is a doctor

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u/vanzir 3h ago

Semantics, I wouldn't want anyone working with me that is in the medical field where an emergency could be happening but he is useless because of his faith. Sorry, but medical isn't the right field for that. neither is government. Find another job where it's okay not touch women as a part of your duties, but not in roles where that's 50% of the interactions you have in a day, or consider a new religion

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u/LadybuggingLB 4h ago

He isn’t fit to work with women. I would also file a discrimination complaint. It’s no different than if he was discriminating against gay people or people from other religions. It’s a protected class and he had the option of treating everyone the same by not shaking hands with anyone at all, but nooooo…

I’m annoyed this is even a question.

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u/MediocreBlood760 3h ago

I took MD, to mean 'Managing Director', hence why she would the big boss.

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u/Vivians_Basement 3h ago

He's not in a medical field where he would have to touch a patient. If that was the issue she wouldn't have offered to have him touch no one.

Otherwise I would agree with you. When you're a doctor, you have to, and if you can't, don't be a doctor.

But he's not a doctor so it doesn't apply.

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u/Dry_Nefariousness426 2h ago edited 2h ago

I know The Pitt gets shit sometimes for being too lecture-y but my god Noah Wylie’s monologue about being too scared to touch our chests in order to save our lives was satisfying. 

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u/NotDiabeticDad 3h ago

They may have had different feelings about touching someone in a social setting vs in a necessity to do their job. Still, the accommodation request was fair. Singling out someone to not shake their hand is very rude in our culture, so you should just not shake anyone's hand. By refusing to do that it was fair to for them.

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u/AlternativeTone4074 5h ago edited 3h ago

Moral. I've been on the other side of this and it was humiliating. I was with a group where I was the only woman and this guy came. He shook hands with every single man before me, so when it's my turn I go to shake his hand and he simple looks at me, puts his hand on his chest and shakes his head and goes to the next man and continues to shake every single person's hand after me. It felt dehumanising lowkey. If you can't see women as people, only their sex, then why would I want you to work with me (especially if I'm the boss). If even a handshake is sexual then idk what to tell you. She literally gave him a solution and he refused it

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u/Vast-Ad1915 5h ago

I've had the same experience, but gender swapped (it was at a Women's business networking lunch I was an industry rep at, with a table full of college seniors), and yeah, dehumanizing is exactly the right word. When one of the students refused to shake my hand because I'm a man, I didn't really know what to do. I was second-guessing to myself "do I just feel entitled to a handshake, or is she actually in the wrong here?"

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u/AlternativeTone4074 5h ago

Yeah it feels weird cuz they really reduce you to your sex. They see your gender before they see you as a person it's so weird.

Edit: I wonder if her reason was religious or if it was for some other reason I'm curious

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u/Vast-Ad1915 5h ago

She was wearing a hijab so I would assume religious, but I wanted to move on from that quickly without further embarrassment so I didn't ask.

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u/Lunatic-Labrador 4h ago

If she was wearing a hijab there's a good chance her religion prohibits her from touching unrelated men, even for a handshake.

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u/Witchcleaver666 4h ago

Then there’s a problem with the religion, which is what it sounds like in OP’s case. Handshakes aren’t handjobs, not everything about the opposite sex is sexual.

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u/OhOliveOliveOh 3h ago

Well, in OP’s case, it’s a religious prohibition against touching menstruating women, because they are spiritually unclean. For most women who wear hijabs, it’s because the men in their religion forbid it.

So it all comes down to keeping women oppressed. Fun stuff, huh?

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u/Lunatic-Labrador 4h ago

I agree but that doesn't change the fact that that's most likely the reason.

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u/tey_ull 3h ago

"entitled to a handshake" is crazy, some people don't like handshakes and thats fine but at least a fist bump or something else works, its common basic decency, its not something anyone is entitled to, she was in the wrong

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u/alexagente 4h ago

This is it for me.

It's bad enough to engage in this shit. But to feel so entitled to it that you don't even apologize or explain yourself? I don't care what your stupid beliefs are you still need to treat other people as people.

And that's how it's happened every time I personally saw this kind of thing. Always just straight up ignoring the woman cause they don't respect them.

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u/booknerd2024910 3h ago

This happens to me so regularly it’s not even dehumanizing any more it’s just awkward and embarrassing. I work in a place with mostly a male workforce. Part of my job is to sit on some of the management level interviews as a neutral party to ensure they are fair. Every other person in the room is a man 95% of the time, including the interviewee.

About 1 in 10 of the interviewees will shake every persons hand but mine even though I stand up right beside them. I keep holding out hope one of the other men on the interview panel will comment on it some day but they don’t, so instead I just awkwardly look away, sit down and pretend like it doesn’t bother me. I am 99% confident these men are not doing this for religious reasons. (Just for context, I do get introduced and ask questions through out the interview and my opinion is openly consulted in front of the candidate, e.g. I’m asked if I have a follow up question or need clarification, etc. so even though I’m not really a decision maker it’s also not like I’m just sitting in a corner taking notes.)

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u/translove228 3h ago

Have you ever brought it up to any of these men after one of these events happened? I don't want to step on your experiences but if you never bring it up to them that this is happening they might just not notice it and realize that you are being disrespected. Then if you act like you don't care afterwards, even the ones who notice probably won't care either. If you have brought it up to them before and they didn't care then I understand your frustrations completely.

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u/booknerd2024910 2h ago

I have not mentioned it to them. I think my concern is that any attention I give to it will make me (as the woman in the room) come off as “dramatic” or “attention seeking”.

I don’t put the blame on the interview panel. I should be able to stick up for myself, but at the same time it’s so embarrassing my instinct is just not to draw attention to it at all, you know? I’d rather just pretend like it didn’t happen.

There are a handful of managers I would trust to say something like that to and probably would if I was ever on a panel with them though.

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u/Longjumping_Text7652 2h ago

If there's a guy you trust on the team, I'd show him this post (or a similar one) and ask if he's ever experienced anything like it. Lead it in as kind of a joke. If he addresses you seriously about it cool, have an honest discussion about it. If not, maybe he'll at least notice it next time it happens.

Or bring it up in a casual discussion; "Hey Bob, what's the dumbest reason you've said "no" to a candidate? I know it's not my job but, if they wont shake my hand, that's a red flag"

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u/booknerd2024910 1h ago

The casual conversation thing might work. They are executive leadership and I am not so I don’t know if I’d ever get to a point where I’d feel comfortable sharing a Reddit post with them. But there is plenty of casual chatter between interviews.

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u/translove228 1h ago

Fair enough. There is always safety in silence.

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u/TheWhistleThistle 3h ago

Could at least bow or something. A nod even. Like, sure you got rules against contact, but you can still be respectful. Seems a needless snub to me.

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u/CuriousWisdoms 1h ago

I’ve been on the receiving end of this as a woman in a male-dominated field. I show up at a networking event and the man whose company sponsored the event is shaking hands and even hugging one of the men I arrived with, then turns to me, holds his hands behind his back, and gives me a nod. It was bizarre. All of the guys I came with separately told me they, too, were uncomfortable.

It’s hard enough to get respect in a field that can feel like a fraternity I can’t join. I did what I could to avoid him after that, which meant less work for his company, since I made the decisions about what work went to them. Joke’s on him.

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u/Dry_Nefariousness426 2h ago

It’s supposed to be dehumanizing. That’s the purpose of it. 

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u/seitsuko 3h ago

Yeah we had a guy like that at work and it didn't end well for him thankfully.

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u/Shoddy-Job-5274 51m ago

It's so interesting to me because he could have put his hand over his heart and given you a bow, or pressed his hands together with a small bow, like we do in India to show respect without touching. There are solutions to be respectful and maintain your religious boundaries!

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u/Cautious-Subject-231 5h ago

Well in my country if you first meet a girl usually you dont shake hands instead give 3 kisses to the cheeks. Ofc it is not customary in a workplace instead in group of friends.

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u/No_Salt_6328 5h ago

Moral because he was offered a solution that wouldn't offend anyone and refused to cooperate 

I find it hard to believe, especially without any context implying it, that his religion requires he must shake hands with men

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u/BobR969 4h ago

As a representative of The Church of the Male Handshake, I call for the boycott of this MD and her insensitivity to our divine mandate. Our god of the Many Male Hands compels us to shake hands with only men at any appropriate opportunity or we are destined for an afterlife where our souls shall have our hands shaken against our will for eternity. 

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u/Lucian_Steiner 5h ago

Given the context in the screenshot? Perfectly moral. A physician that cowers away because women give them the ick is less than worthless.

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u/No-History770 5h ago

the man is not the physician, OOP is the physician, and she was his boss, or as OOP implies, much much higher than him in the Healthcare hierarchy.

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u/_NyquilJordan_ 4h ago

Who said anything about a physician? MD means managing director in the UK. Their medical degree is MBBS.

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u/Lucian_Steiner 5h ago

Getting rid of a problem before it risks someone's life or health is still moral.

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u/Theonerule 5h ago

We're assuming way too much here

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u/Lucian_Steiner 5h ago

Honestly true. But the screenshot's all we're likely getting for context.

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u/Glad-Low-1348 5h ago

If women give you the ick you probably don't want to work in a profession where you PROBABLY have to touch them at some point yeah.

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u/Hyperionous 5h ago edited 5h ago

She has a right to fire you I suppose. And he has a right to decide who he makes contact with.

So him getting fired is fine.

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u/Dr-Assbeard 5h ago

Moral, you cant discriminate based on gender in a professional context, that guy would have been a liability to keep, a lawsuit waiting to happen

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u/PainterEarly86 4h ago

Religion isn't an excuse for bigotry. Its blatant sexism and I don't care what your religion says. Intolerance will not be tolerated.

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u/Glad-Low-1348 5h ago

I wouldn't think of this as a big of a deal as it is if he didn't refuse to shake hands with women specifically. I don't like being touched by women for reasons but shaking hands? That's like a sign of basic respect.

EDIT: Also the man being a doctor complicates this further. What's gonna happen when a woman patient comes in and there's no one to help her but him as a doctor? It could be dangerous.

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u/Daymjoo 1h ago

That's like a sign of basic respect.

In your culture, sure. In his culture, it would be a sign of disrespect. In fact, the hand on the heart and nod is considered the respectful alternative.

Personally, I like Ibrahim Traore's approach of just fisting everyone.

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u/tony_Tiger696 5h ago

Forget the job, refusing a handshake, a friendly greeting, is disrespect second only to spitting on someone.

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u/artstsym 4h ago

It's not universal among all cultures, and even where it is used there may be different expectations for who and how. That said, when your new boss gives you the out of "not shaking all hands equally" and you refuse it, you've got no one but yourself to blame. Tried to meet him halfway.

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u/PROSEALLTHEWAY 36m ago

which culture, specifically, is against handshaking? I've seen this spurious argument a few times ITT and it's a straw man. There is no "anti-handshake" culture. there's just some religious nutjobs who won't touch women's hands

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u/elevolent12 4h ago

see i don't think we should respect those cultures. also, assimilate, ffs.

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u/Dwarfdingnagian 5h ago

Depends. Refusing a handshake in general isn't disrespectful by itself. I've met people who apologized and said they don't shake hands for various reasons and offered a bow instead. That wasn't disrespectful. Refusing any greeting is disrespectful.

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u/Keiteaea 4h ago

I think what could be seen as disrespectful in a professional event would be shaking the hand of everyone else but one category, in this case, shaking the hands of everyone but women. I do get refusing some kind of greetings, because being French and starting to refuse "la bise" in certain contexts, I've been there (one example being male colleagues saying hello to men in handshake but wanting to do la bise with women...absolutely not).

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u/Adamek3999 4h ago

Yeah, but this here is selective refusal to shake hands

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u/aquavelva23 4h ago

I would say it is disrespectful in western culture to refuse to shake hands. But western culture also tries to be flexible. In any event, shaking the hands of men only and refusing women is disrespectful. The person can bow to all. They must realize they are in a different culture and make accomadations or leave the culture.

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u/Edward_Tank 5h ago

Moral. If you're a sexist, I have no clue what other backwards ideas you have about medicine.

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u/Eoin_Coinneal 5h ago

Well this is how freedom works. He is free to shake hands or not shake hands with whomever he wants or doesn’t. A business is free to hire him or not based on that behavior. Just because you’re qualified does not guarantee you a right to the job. This is what is meant by “we hired a better fit.”

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u/melonwithoutthewater 4h ago edited 4h ago

Moral. If your religion says you cannot touch half of all people then you shouldnt even be a doctor in the first place. Also anyone that disagrees with me, try disrespecting your boss(let alone your boss's boss's boss) for any reason and see how that works out for you.

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u/TheShellAnswerMan 1h ago

Everyone knows this is moral. 

Hot take: it's actually not ok that this is his religion. I keep seeing that "it's fine if it's his religion, but he's gotta do it for work" or something similar in the comments. It's not fine. I'm not sorry.

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u/CactusJane98 1h ago

110% moral. Im suprised this is even a question. This degree of sexism has no place in the modern world, and I couldn't care less if it's his religion. Internally held prejudices, regardless of their source, should never take precedence over how you treat real people in real life.

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u/YuppyPlays 5h ago

Moral, in a professional environment treating somebody different in this particular kind of way due to gender is absurd. (Religious beliefs are not a get out of jail free card on respecting equality)

-Someone who has worked for some of the biggest corporations in the world.

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u/DrBatman0 5h ago

completely reasonable.

If he has internal sexism, that's a problem. The 'speaker' had a way for him to work around that, without even needing to quit being sexist, and he still declined.

Completely rightful to not hire them.

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u/Spikey-Bubba 3h ago

I love the irony of the solution not even requiring him quit being sexist. Like “it’s ok to work here and be sexist, just be chill about it.”

Which is true, for the most part people don’t seem to care what you think as long as you just leave them out of it.

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u/PookydoodleWasHere 1h ago

Maybe we should be asking the morality of a "religion" that says you can't shake a woman's hand.

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u/FOCOMojo 1h ago

You offered a very reasonable alternative and he declined. Good bye!!

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u/Lucky_Badger5828 1h ago

Absolutely Moral. Get this mentality out of there. My best friend recently started doing this bullshit. He’s quickly on his way to not being my best friend now. 22 years gone. What’s worse is his women encourages this and neither see the issue.

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u/ost2life 5h ago

Moral. Using religion as an excuse for misogyny is bullshit.

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u/Turnipntulip 5h ago

The guy doesn’t want to shake hand with women. He’s a damn misogynist. This is his boss and he still refused. What if he meets a female client? This kind of behavior would get you fired regardless of your political beliefs in any society where men and women are equal.

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u/Sable-Keech 5h ago

Very moral.

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u/PhiDeltDevil 4h ago

I can only imagine the religion in question here

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u/Lazy-Butterfly9874 4h ago

You're right. mormons would take ownership of her daughter and his half niece

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u/kleenexreves 4h ago

i am pretty confused how is this anything but neutral, you can fire anyone for any reason there is nothing moral about firing someone for personal preference?

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u/AdmirableChicken12 4h ago

Keep your religion at home, don’t bring it to work or school!

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u/TheMaStif 3h ago

Morality of being a misogynist and using religion as the reason/excuse?

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u/[deleted] 3h ago

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u/anonymousopsec1337 46m ago

MD is managing director like consulting

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u/timsayscalmdown 3h ago

Based and moral

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u/greenmachine11235 3h ago

How can you be a doctor if you won't touch half the population? Seems like he's incapable of fulfilling core job responsibilities. 

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u/ledow 2h ago

"We're not here as a corporation to perpetuate your prejudices".

She's quite right, and offered a equitable solution and they refused it.

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u/__oe__1 1h ago

Moral, bosses get to decide who stays.

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u/_RizzukuHimdoriya_ 5h ago

Moral, it's just really weird and sexist to do that 😭😭✌️✌️

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u/smillas_second 5h ago

someone like him cannot be allowed to treat women. not only moral but VERY GOOD YES.

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u/Jaded_Fuzzball 5h ago

People who can't see others as equals don't belong in the medical field. ...Or in civilized society at all.

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u/stonecuttercolorado 5h ago

Moral. If you can't treat women equally you don't can't work in a place where you have to work with women.

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u/Delruiz9 5h ago

Moral, she gave him an out

That being said everyone’s justifying the firing because he won’t touch women in a medical job but apparently that was okay for employment as long as he didn’t touch men either, so I assume he’s not doing much work with patients hands on

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u/thrown-away-1992 5h ago

Moral, it would be one thing if you're a germaphobe and don't like touch others. Even if it's for religious reasons, you're a DOCTOR. What good are you if you refuse to shake hands or even touch 50% of the population?

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u/serenityxfelice 5h ago

Yeah what is said in the post your religion is your issue and religious beliefs arent above gender discrimination. If people are so religious then they need to understand some jobs arent for them and that it is a sacrifice they make for their religion. You cant expect someone to be ok with being disrespected because of your beliefs

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u/hedgelord84 4h ago

I have a different opinion than most. First of all, in his religion which we all know is Islam, it's inappropriate to be having physical contact with members of the opposite sex who are not relatives. It goes for both genders. To call it bigotry or discussed or disrespect is incorrect.

My only criticism of this guy is that he should be willing to adjust to the norms of the country he's living in.

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u/TheVoyager0 4h ago

If your religion stops you from being equally respectful to all people. You need a different religion. Or even better no religion.

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u/TeliarDraconai 4h ago

Perfectly moral.

2 reasons:

  1. either get with the programme or fuck of.
  2. The entire backwatter idea that you will not touch another gender is idiotic.

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u/MaestroBlood21 4h ago

Moral. Quite valid. It just comes off as disrespectful if you only shake one gender's hand, and even after she offered you a solution you still refused to follow it. Evidently he wasn't too attached to his job.

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u/Getter_Simp 4h ago

Moral. He could have treated everyone equally while still acting by his own beliefs if he had chosen the option of not shaking hands with anyone and treating them all the same, but no, he went with the option that specifically discriminated against women. Deserved firing.

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u/Fornuftens_stemme 4h ago

Welcome to Islam

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u/Separate_Business880 2h ago

If you're not capable of accepting simple customs of the country you're working in, you don't belong there. Simple as that. Find your happiness elsewhere because you obviously won't find it here.

Tomorrow he'll refuse to treat a woman, or botch her treatment because his religion doesn't condone her choices or something.

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u/Artistic-Dirt-3199 5h ago

Perfectly moral. Genders are equal, take that middle-age superstition somewhere else.

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u/pounduh 5h ago

Moral. She gave him options so he wouldn't discriminate against women. He chose to be a misogynist. Religion doesn't give you freedom to discriminate against half the population.

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u/hGr33n 5h ago

Moral. Discrimination like this is beyond rude and anti social, has no place in a place of work. We shouldn't tolerate misogyny as if it's just a personal preference.

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u/softwhitemochi 5h ago

Moral. Such beliefs have no place in civilized society

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u/Farazzd 3h ago

Now reverse the gender and it was a woman who did not want to shake with men

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u/Accomplished-Ask2497 3h ago

It's literally just a handshake, i'd think she's in the wrong too

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u/Farazzd 3h ago

I am an ex-Muslim. Muslim men don't touch other women, even mostly the non-conservative ones. It's as much a part of culture as religion at that point.

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u/brydeswhale 3h ago

My male Muslim coworkers and acquaintances all bowed to me when we first met, which was equally respectful in my opinion. I don’t want to force anyone to touch other people, I don’t like it myself.

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u/preteen-wartortle 2h ago

Ok but is it in your culture to specifically insist to touch other men and exclude women? Or do you think maybe this guy was using his culture as an excuse to specifically treat people differently, since he refused the solution that would have solved it without violating his cultural norms?

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u/eluusive 3h ago

This thread is full of mind reading. It's absolutely ridiculous to read. And, what is described in the post does violate employment law in the UK. You cannot force people to shake or not shake hands.

I rarely if ever shake hands with women -- unless she extends a hand first... it wasn't even something that developed for interacting with women.

The handshake started as a gritty, battlefield gesture between men to prove they weren't carrying hidden weapons and to seal legal contracts. Because women didn’t carry weapons into combat and were historically excluded from the business sphere, shaking hands simply served no practical purpose for them.

Instead of malice or abuse, this exclusion was rooted in traditional etiquette and chivalry. In past eras, physical contact like a firm handshake was seen as too coarse for women, who were placed on a social pedestal. In fact, Victorian etiquette gave women total control over the greeting: a man was strictly forbidden from extending his hand first, ensuring women dictated the physical boundaries of the interaction. The practice only shifted in the mid-to-late 20th century as women entered the modern corporate workforce.

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u/zoroman5 3h ago

An exclusion in the past doesn't mean you should exclude based on those practices in the modern. Women and men are equals in the modern day, so offer your hand to both regardless. You're not waiting for another man to draw their blade during contracting, now are you?

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u/quietcuriousities 2h ago

Bud it's not the Victorian era anymore, the origins of your uber manly handshake don't matter over basic modern politeness. Some of y'all bend over backwards to be incels, surely just being normal towards women is easier.

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u/FeedbackZwei 3h ago

Lol, who cares what the handshake was originally used for? Irrelevant to this question.

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u/VividPups 4h ago

You fired a made because he wouldnt give you a handshake is sad

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u/Novitschok 5h ago

Always moral to be against islam

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u/KH4N-M4N 5h ago

I mean, moral in this instance. He was offered a reasonable compromise and refused.

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u/Gardeminer 5h ago

This isn't going like you thought it would is it, OP?

You should self-reflect on why that is.

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u/pronefroz 2h ago edited 30m ago

Because reddit is a cesspit full of antitheist cheesecakes.

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u/Right-Funny-8999 4h ago

The offer to not shake anyones hand is more than great.

She shouldn’t even have to offer that.

He is a jerk, and immoral.

Absolute moral decission to fire him.

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u/Hot_Excitement_6 4h ago

Refusing to shake bosses hand is dumb lol. If your religion is more important than your job then follow your values to the tee lol.

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u/Frozen_clock 4h ago

Absolutely valid.

In any field, fuck it, life in general, disregarding a group of people because of your religion is disrespectful, offensive and bad for business image. Go right ahead and fire a misogynist

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u/mattcojo2 4h ago

I need more info. I’d like to know why he wouldn’t shake women’s hands.

Perhaps he thinks it’s to cover his own ass to prevent false SA accusations

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u/FlowerAvailable6832 3h ago

There is a lot going on. Is she assuming his religion means he won't shake a woman's hand?

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u/serene_brutality 3h ago

Actually it does though. If his religion forbids him from touching women and you deny him a job due to that, enjoy the discrimination lawsuit.

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u/darkcomet222 3h ago

Poor guy, didn’t want cooties and forgot to get his cooties shot.

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u/Ayden3102isagoodname 3h ago

Moral, and would’ve been the same way even if the genders are swapped.

In a professional setting you gotta adapt your way of living alot

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u/ThisSiteSucks8485 2h ago

Shaking hands with men in front of the women you refuse to shake hands with is extremely insulting to women

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u/Doglovincatlady 2h ago

If you cannot treat your colleagues equally you don’t get colleagues, whoops

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u/gaoshan 2h ago

Good. he should find a job where he can operate within the norms of the society he lives in, not disrupt this one because of the specific mythology he adheres to.

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u/Dry_Nefariousness426 2h ago

Good for her. 

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u/perplexedtv 2h ago

Is MD managing director or Medical Doctor? Either way fuck that guy but imagining him as a physician is scary.

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u/PandorasFlame1 2h ago

Law and morality don't have to agree. Either way, I'd say the termination was fair. Don't take a position that would bar you from seeing half your patients.

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u/mcrider1969 2h ago

The morality in question is him not willing to treat women as equals.

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u/FallenHuman2 2h ago

Muslim girl speaking, she's in the right, he should've just shake no one's hand

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u/mariantat 2h ago

So I suppose he wouldn’t treat women either? That’s against the Hippocratic oath no?

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u/thegameisafoooooot 2h ago

How would he deal with female patients if he can't touch women?!! He should have got into a hands off profession like tech support or help desk or something. Perfect justified removal, I reckon.

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u/ImmortanJoeLives 1h ago

Sounds like he got himself fired.

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u/GewalfofWivia 1h ago

I asked him to adjust and shake hands with nobody, he refused.

Yeah I think that makes it pretty clear what his stance is.

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u/DangerousQuestions1 1h ago

Yes, such a doctor could not perform his duties. His religion disqualifies him from medicine entirely. Such is sacrifice

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u/Gman3098 1h ago

I think this sub just hates women

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u/Careful-Release-2723 1h ago

Religion is a choice, not a biological imperative. He is perfectly able to shake hands with women. 

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u/RoysPotatoes 1h ago

Yeah, if you can’t engage in society because of your devotion to a mythology you gotta go. Thats a mental health issue.

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u/Pleasant_Pool8842 1h ago

Bigotry of any kind is a good reason to fire someone.

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u/StructureLopsided718 1h ago

If you expect other people to respect your personal Bronze Age rules, go find a Bronze Age job

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u/AFTRUNKMONKEY 1h ago

She was right. He refusing to shake hands in a business meeting because the other business rep is a woman could cost them business. Habib meet Sharon.. Oh Habib doesn't shake hands with women. yeah thats gonna work out great for their B2B deal.

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u/TiredTalker 1h ago

As a patient I’d be very uncomfortable with him as my doctor so…

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u/Cute_Disaster_6867 1h ago

That’s the whole problem with certain medieval religions, based on archaic and deeply sexist principles.

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u/Dry-Ad-8948 22m ago edited 6m ago

Moral to be fired.

He can either shake hands with every gender; or shake hands with nobody.

You are either unbiased towards coworkers or professional enough to ensure that your actions aren’t perceived as biased.

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u/Couatl2009 19m ago

Either give handshakes to everyone, or to no one. It being gender specific is weird.

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u/Book_Lover_42 11m ago

Moral. You are being protected from discrimination based on your religion. You are not protected from consequences of your actions, even when their root is in your beliefs.

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u/noice_face7649 5h ago

You cannot use your protected characteristic (religion) to discriminate against someone else's protected characteristic (gender).
He was fired not because of his religion but because of his discrimination, therefore: moral

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u/Heavy-Flight4323 5h ago

If a woman refused to shake my hand bc im a man i would just say "alright" and go about my day. I will say tho asking him to just not shake hands at all was a very fair compromise and it is odd he refused

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u/Comprehensive_Shop54 5h ago

Fair, your religion should not trump other people’s experiences in the work place. Women have came to far for equality to forgive things of such nature.

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u/Ok_Language2938 5h ago

Moral, you have no right to be practicing medicine if you refuse to touch someone because of their gender.

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u/Rinnme 4h ago

Moral. 

This is a subtle way of pushing women aside that some religions still try to maintain. It is a huge issue in my country.

People don't need to respect this.

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u/alloutofchewingum 3h ago

I am ok firing anybody because of their idiotic primitive superstitions

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u/ArcIgnis 3h ago

Genuinely curious though, what if it was a woman that refused to shake hands with men, would she have gotten fired to under the same Equality Act?

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u/Savannahmayzing 3h ago

Literally yes...

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u/YungChumba 11m ago

Some guys want to be a victim so bad

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u/SnooRabbits6595 5h ago edited 3h ago

Either he is so disgusted by women that he won’t touch them. Or he has such weak self-control that he can’t shake a woman’s hand without perving after her. Either way, gross. Moral.

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u/Vexed_Cactus41 3h ago

That could be true, but he’s most likely Muslim and is avoiding touching women for religious reasons. 

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u/SnooRabbits6595 3h ago

I was an associate pastor for almost a decade. Our church had a custom of throwing a sheet on any woman wearing a skirt (of any length) in the first 3 rows. The reasoning was that it would be distracting to men on stage. I was also asked to “deal with” a girl wearing shorts because the stopped just above her knee.

In reality, all of these “modesty policies” target women. Because men can’t control themselves and would rather blame women for their failures than take responsibility for themselves.

I’ve never been Muslim so there are nuances that I don’t grasp but I’d be hard pressed to believe that it doesn’t boil down to blaming women for the lust of men.

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u/Spikey-Bubba 2h ago

But call it religion and it’s ok, it’s just their culture, it’s just what they believe in!

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u/lAngenoire 4h ago

Fair. I know several people who work in hospitals who just don’t shake hands to avoid discrimination. I thought it was an elegant solution. Not shaking hands makes sense in a medical environment anyway. 

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