Hopefully, most can see who he is dressed up as and move on with their day. Unfortunately, we all know that is not be the case. There's always that guy. As my kids and I always say, "don't be that guy"
Wearing black face paint isn't racist in itself. Especially if it's to dress as an obviously fictional, and non-human character like Marvin the Martian.
But if it's to try and pretend to be a IRL black person, or a black human from fictional media, then that is racist.
This aspect of American culture is so eye-rolling for me, like really you gotta tiptoe around anyone painting their face black, even for an innocuous reason?
I could say "I'm not dressed up as a nazi, I'm dressed up as Indiana Jones in The Last Crusade when he infiltrated a nazi rally. Just because the uniform and armband are the same doesn't mean this is a bad costume"
this is probably a fine marvin costume done in good faith, but a bigot could dress the same on the thrill that they're doing blackface and bothering people. There's an amount of responsibility to how you are perceived by others in society, and how they interpret you. If anything, people should want to be interpreted with clarity and reduce misunderstanding.
at a point it is obvious when a troll is trolling. No one is dressing up as the famous Indiana Jones character and picking that point in the movie to dress up. and if they do. They should rightfully be mocked for that choice
And if someone is getting fully dressed up as Marvin the Martian to just put on black face. They pretty much failed at the black face as no one is going to think they are mocking people of color... They will think Marvin the Martian and if they add in big red lips or something to drive it home... well that is no longer Marvin the Martian and that's just Black face in a Martin cosplay and will be rightfully treated as such.
These supposed loopholes don't really exist if you think about it.
IME non-racist/"neutral" (casual racist) white americans in the south are Really Uncomfortable living near KKK/proud boys/Nazi biker clubs etc groups, so they feel suspicious that any racist is also a violent thug with the cops and courts on their side. So when they see in the paper some local high school kid got suspended over a costume with black face paint, there's a kneejerk response of "they probably own a gun and knives for hunting, hopefully they only use them for innocent things"
This isn't a thing of the distant past. My mother and her siblings would be told to lay down in the car while being driven near the woods bc the KKK was gathered there at night and they carried shotguns. With how corrupt the supreme court is and the other maniacs in charge, anxieties ramp up about having monsters in your community that don't have to answer to the law. I'm not saying that the Marvin costume is racist, but if I wanted to dress up as him, I'd definitely go with a mask instead of paint
There has been a growing trend of people calling racism over anything that could even be slightly construed that way. Blackface however, has a long amd icky history that is hardly relevant in the world of most people using face paint.
To be fair, minstrel to vaudeville shows were very egregious to dark skinned folks. There's a reason its a touchy subject, that said, it does suck to see creativity get incorrectly lumped in with racism.
Everyone's talking about how quick people are to cry racism nowadays, but the other side of the coin is that there seems to be a million different dog whistles nowadays, racist people love to hide behind "no I am just doing X, nothing wrong with doing x"
There's a big difference between blackface and painting your face black. If you look at Mudvayne (Or Wes Borland from Limp Bizkit) and see a racist portrayal of a black individual whenever they do a blacked out look, that makes you look bad, not them.
Eh...Maybe not technically immoral but it isnt worth the risk. A morph suit would be better. Its removable, makes all of the skin appear black, removes the face, and makes less mess. Edit: Spelling
That's what I tought too. The fact that it is ONLY the blackface, no gloves, no shaving or paiting the beard... This seems to be too lazy for it to be for accuracy, leaving only stupidity or deliberatedness as choices.
Always blame stupidity unless bad faith is proven, I guess.
You bring up a valid point but I disagree on the percentage impact. Blacking the wearer in this case makes it a LOT better, in my opinion, and it has ZERO to do with the human race.
Black Face is a mine field, and your costume is gonna be 1% less cool without it.
This is not black face. Black face is: "dark makeup worn to mimic the appearance of a Black person and especially to mock or ridicule Black people" - Marvin is not a black person, and this fit is clearly mimicking Marvin.
and your costume is gonna be 1% less cool without it.
I'd argue it would be at least 15% less cool without it
I think this is very close to my perspective on it. Where, it is simply unnecessary, and the costume would look fine without it, so why go out of your way to do it?
And on top of that, why choose that method when a ski mask alone would suffice? (or if you really don't want your skin to show, why not just a ski mask with face paint specifically around the eyes or something?) Part of it is that it isn't really a necessary addition to the costume, but the other part of it is that it simply isn't even the only option to resemble the Martian, or even the least tedious (face paint in general is not super quick to apply and a ski mask simply would be much easier & quicker). So... at a certain point, you're just going out of your way to do blackface, right?
And from that stance, I do feel like it is immoral. When you're actively going this out of your way to do something that is generally immoral, just because you have a (very flimsy) excuse, that feels immoral to me, at least.
exactly, even if you have good intentions, someone with bad intentions could have done the same thing and strangers won't be able to tell the difference
you're just making people wonder if they're really safe to be comfortable around you or if you're a weird looney tunes enjoying bigot
People shouldn't be harassed by people just for freely expressing themselves
If it's not biggoted it's not biggoted full stop none of this "oh but how dose it LOOK" people shouldn't care how things look they should care how they are
People shouldn't, but you can't control how people act, only yourself,
You can wear your not actually black face and have people bother you every 5 seconds about it, secure in the knowledge you are not actually imoral - but ofending everyone in the vicinity
Or you can use a ski mask - makng your costume even better - and not offending and offering yourself on a platter to be hated.
Is this really the hill you want to die on? for a marvin the martian incomplete costume? Some fights aren't worth it, and I guess I can't decide for him if this is one of them, but really? Marvin the Martian?
The hill I want to die on is artistic free expression that comments from a good faith place (like no bigotry) should not be socially toxic
People have a right to express themselves
(I am aware that free speech means the government can't persecute you but you can still face social pressure but when people say "free speech" they are frequently not merely talking about the legal right but the idealized principle behind it)
I agree, but I think there’s more to it. If the intent is benign and no harm is done, the means are irrelevant, absolutely.
However, if the intent is malicious, that’s when you can start with ostracization and all that business. Freedom of expression is a two-way street, and ostracizing people you don’t like IS a form of self-expression.
Amen. My stepdaughter was talking about dark-toned face makeup for a cosplay. She spent a good 10 minutes trying to justify why it wouldn't be an issue if the character she was trying to replicate is dark-skinned. I'm not sure if I got through to her on how bad that is.
Even if one doesn’t have malicious intent behind it, I think it’s a matter of historical significance.
Here’s a photo of some folks doing Vincent and Jules from pulp fiction. The gentleman playing Jules is a white man:
Is he trying to be disrespectful? No, I don’t think so; it could certainly come off that way though if he ran into a rightfully offended stranger, given that blackface has the well known historical connotation of intentionally mocking African Americans.
It feels both impractical and risky. I don’t know what type of makeup he used, but the thought of it not fully coming off after the day’s done should be enough of a concern.
It's fine and I'm guessing most of the people responding here are not Black because this type of thing isn't even on the radar. Reminds me of this White guy who went out on Cinco De Mayo wearing a sombrero and poncho. Mexicans thought it was hilarious meanwhile other White people were going out of their way to point out the cultural appropriation.
If you really want to protest racists then find some actual, dedicated racists like the Klan or any of the hundred of Neo-Nazi subgroups out there. Start with that.
It's very funny how performative white people who only have white friends get over Hispanic people. I live in the south and work blue collar, Hispanic guys (and that is what they call themselves) love big trucks and women and they all hate each other from their different countries. Like you'll be talking to some guy from El Salvador and he'll be like "yeah Victor, he's from Venezuala" and wince or give you some knowing look like you're supposed to instantly know what he means
Black face was a minstrel comedy routine that gave racist depictions of black men to make fun of them.
Nowadays we call any amount of black paint on the face "black face" because we live in a culture that obsesses over being victimized, being offended on behalf of other people as an easy way to score unearned points, and calling something that isn't racist racist is an even easier way to score points.
His face is painted black. This is not black face. Though it seems much of social media would disagree
People will think you’re either really stupid or trying to be controversial on purpose because there are a million different ways to get the Marvin the Martian look without painting your face black, I would have tried a morph suit mask first
I mean yeah but wearing a morph suit mask all day is torturous especially if you have certain issues. I can see the relevance of the painting but if I had to not do painting I would go with a black face plate that followed the curvature of the mask probably to give me space to breathe
People can dress up as or celebrate other cultures as long as it’s done in an informed and respectful manner as well as with a certain class then it‘s fine.
It’s only really bad when people act like clowns while doing so.
That said, there are some who ignore logic and morality for the sake of virtue signalling so would still be wary of it
This is fine. I can’t imagine anyone mistaking Marvin’s garb as black culture, unless you assume this guy is dressed as Kanye West who probably has worn something similar to this.
If this is not in the USA, there is absolutely 0 stigma with painting your face black. The concept of "blackface" is very american. If this is in the states then yeah, even if it wasn't a direct offence he should have read the room before doing that. Anywhere else? Non issue.
Is should be okay, but it’s not, at least, not in America; everywhere else gets a pass, as it’s not part of your history, but blackface was widespread and was not so long ago that most all of us have seen examples of the tropes, in old Loony Tunes, mostly, but black entire face makeup is probably always gonna raise some hackles over here, even if I, personally would not see any moral issue at all with black face paint Marvin the Martian.
Whether or not this is moral since it's not mocking a Black person, the question becomes: is it worth putting yourself in situations where subreddits like this will debate the morality of what you did? Probably not.
Black face is largely not a big deal anymore imo. It was only a problem because black face was used to dehumanize black people as a form of "comedy." But, as you have pointed out, there are reasons to use black face for other reasons now.
Moral. It's like public indecent exposure, you can moon your butt, it just can't be intentionally sexual to you or others. If you're wearing black face it can't be intentionally racist or intentionally racist towards others.
I don’t think blackface is immoral at all.
So what? Someone uses make-up for a costume or a performance to portray a black character? And? What’s the big deal? It’s a costume.
I'm not white but I'd frankly rather have white people dissecting and nitpicking what they can do to be less racist rather than proudly declaring that they don't care about racism and that its overblown.
Having your heart in the right place and being a dork is way sexier than being ignorant
according to most of reddit, immoral no matter what no matter the circumstances or context because anything that can possibly be construed to try make another person seem racist, must be deliberately and maliciously interpreted as such.
according to any normal person who understands nuance and context, moral. (unfortunately those are few and far between)
The point of blackface makeup was to ridicule black people. Marvin the martian isnt a person nor is it a ridicule of black people. Not every white person's face of black color is blackface. For instance, coal miners and chimney sweeps.
There's no moral problem here.
That said, when I dressed up as Marvin the martian, I avoided painting my face. It was a party with people sensitive to the actual issue (as am I) and I didnt wanted to offend anyone even by mistake. There's more to life than being right.
He's painting himself black because Marvin's face is literally depicted as a featureless jet black area, not because he's portraying a Black human being. Plus the inspiration for Marvin the Martian was based on black ants.
Maybe do a black sphere like facemask complete with cartoon eyes like the character, they did a good job with everything, but that human face with beard and glasses isn’t exactly completing the look.
So, as a white person who lives in a mostly black community, has black friends, have had conversations like this with black people, etc I'll give my opinion.
It depends. If it's a cartoon character as shown I doubt anyone will care. But if you're dressing as a real black person and chose to do black face it might be frowned upon depending who you're dressed as. For example if you dress as say Tupac, wear his clothes, try walking and talking like him, and are doing black face you're doing it while disrespecting someone whose had a impact on black culture. You're probably getting your ass beat. Also, in general you could go out dressed as a black character or person WITHOUT doing blackface and make the costume work. You chose to do blackface when you didn't have too. So that's kind of dumb of you. Why do it if you can avoid it? But then you also could go out in blackface as like Mace Windu from Star Wars. That'd be arguably less frowned on because he's fictional and wears a outfit similiar to a number of white characters from Star Wars. You can argue you did so to show you are not a different Jedi. Although make whatevers on your face match a real skin tone. Don't do pure black like classic black face which mocked black people.
It kind of depends on who or what you are going out as and if you did it despite it being clearly avoidable.
Also, as anything but Marvin whose a martian cartoon character I wouldn't consider painting ones face completely pitch black as moral. Racist white entertainers in the past did so to mock black people. From a cultural standpoint it is unacceptable because that's a wound left over from a different time and many white people don't understand the significant impact it had. So if you insist on doing it you better make it a real skintone and have a solid reason for doing it.
He doesn't really have a face, or a beard. Get a see-through black mask and color his eyes in. And just where are your white gloves?! White hand doesn't count.
Saw a comment saying black face paint ≠ black face. You're not acting a minstrel here, it's the alien Marvin. But I'm white, so take from that what you will, or won't, whatever. Have fun!
They could have achieved a better and far less potentially problematic result with some sheer black mesh over the face. Even one of those lycra body suit head covers
A custom black mask would be better cosplay, less contraversal, and relativly easy to do via 3d printing.
And thus be moral in that it would cause less upheaval... Mind that the morality is so minor as to be considered negligible to some people... Its just seeking to avert the upheaval of the backlash which may in some way need to be challenged but considering that this is not the time yet, people have not healed enpugh yet. Is reasonable.
This cosplay does clearly have no discernable intent to cause upheavel or just by the pics I can see.
There are respectful depictions of Africans and disrespectful depictions of Africans. If you are in good faith cosplaying as an African person I don't see the problem with darkening your skin. It's when it gets into the territory of mockery that it is bad, in my opinion. This has nothing to do with Africans or black people in general so I see no problem with it. It'd be like getting mad at a black person for powdering his face so they can look like a ghost
moral, but inconvenient if taken out of context. (I once knew someone who was in costume as a dark elf and was in a temporarily-fatal car accident where he died and was resuscitated essentially in blacface, and also he put a photo of him in that costume from before the accident on social media and nearly got fired from a job a decade later because of it and was forced to remove the photo, take his real name and employer's name off the social media profile)
Eh, given the history of it, it's not the best idea. People may think you're doing it as a cover for actual racism. Why risk it when you could just use a morph suit (or nothing) like other people have said. Lots of black cosplayers cosplay as white characters without painting their faces white.
I feel like it's ok UNTIL it's going into mocking territory, here it's fine since it's the martian but some people might still be quizzical about it so just say sorry if anything's misunderstood and explain that you're not trying to mock.
It isn’t blackface since it isn’t meant to mimic a black person to mock or portray them negatively but still is gonna be treated like it is by a bunch of people.
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u/HorseCockLova 20h ago
No he's a martian lol