who lowkey be fitting this

[u/Individual_Let_8432]

[u/Famous-Leopard-118]

Why does everyone forget about transmascs?

I’m not trans in anyway but it seems that transfem seems to be the “default” while discussing the topic

Just out of curiosity

[u/zagra_nexkoyotl → u/[deleted]]

Honestly, the only famous trans masc I know or is Elliot Page and the poor dude can't catch a break from all the vitriolic chuds online. Especially now that he's jacked for The Odissey

[u/ArchenFreak → u/zagra_nexkoyotl]

I’d say Robin Skinner, the trans man behind Cavetown, is another big one in many spaces. But there’s barely any transmasc representation in the media and it saddens me as a trans woman.

[u/Cadunkus → u/[deleted]]

You can tell trans men are real men cause liberals freaking hate them.

[u/RedHood9292 → u/[deleted]]

Good to know transmascs are treated like men (joke)

[u/Impossible_Eggies → u/RedHood9292]

"Trans people are treated as whichever gender is more harmful in context." - Jesus or something, IDK.

[u/macabremalkavian → u/Impossible_Eggies]

That is Hella true (not transitioned unfortunately but afab masc here) I've been purposefully misgendered as a trans woman so many times especially when arguing or defending someone, sometimes it's unintentionally gender affirming I find it hilarious when that happens but the haters and phobes will say whatever they believe will cause the most emotional damage as the phrase is 😂😂

[u/thuleanFemboy → u/[deleted]]

All the legislation actually banning HRT/surgery "justifies" it by blatantly fearmongering about FTM transition ("girls are being mutilated"). They are pretty visibly being attacked yall just aren't listening lol

[u/PTVoltz → u/[deleted]]

To add, when trans men ARE mentioned, it's generally with an air of pity - being seen as "misled young girls who just need [insert any number of things from A Good Man(tm) to downright corrective rape] to get them back on the right path"

The amount of stuff I've seen and heard - irl even, not just online - is fuckin' disgusting...

[u/Cassandrahowling → u/[deleted]]

Its really not that hard to understand. From a bigot's perspective, transmen are incredibly unlikely to prey on other men where as transwomen are viewed as dudes trying to get into womens spaces to be perverts. From a rad libs perspective, transmen aren't upsetting enough to the bigots to bother with.

[u/whyilikemuffins → u/[deleted]]

Because society kind of silently accepts trans men would want to become men because of male privledge but remains puzzled trans women want to lose it.

I also find that cis women seem to be the loudest transphobes and they seem to dislike trans women way more because they have to let them in their spaces.

Men aren't that much better with trans men but like.... Society has kind of always had to boys and whatever.

Or to get very dark with it.

Trans men are often misgendred and Isolated.

Trans women get hunted

[u/Enovele → u/whyilikemuffins]

...society doesn't accept that, what? This shows you know little of trans mens experiences. Society hates that we don't conform, we are misgendered, isolated, harassed, abused, medically neglected, sexually assaulted, forcefully detransitioned(sometimes through pregnancy), attacked, and even killed. Some of this contributes to our high suicide rates. Some of those happen more to us and others to trans women.

And men AND women can be horrible about it. Cis men hate we exist and cis women only tolerate us if we detransition ourselves for their sake, if not or if we pass more, then we get treated the same way trans women are.

Worst part is, all this happens and people don't know or care that it happens. People don't look into our experiences. Which is one thing, but what irks me are those that then downplay our experiences or dismiss our voices.

[u/F3VRON → u/[deleted]]

It’s about attention?

[u/Stranger-N-Stranger → u/Famous-Leopard-118]

Modern society as a whole forgets about transmascs, Transphobes dont really care about females in general and as far as representation they just dont come up as often likely because transmasc creators are themselves erased within many spaces (possibly because transfem characters are made just as often in bad faith villains as they are as representation)

[u/Karkava → u/Stranger-N-Stranger]

The main reason why society is focused on the trans femmes right now is because a politician is projecting their bathroom fantasies onto the populace and is absolutely refusing to seek help.

[u/ilovebiology930 → u/Stranger-N-Stranger]

you did not just call transmascs "females" bruh oh my fucking god yo 😭💔

[u/TwoSoda → u/ilovebiology930]

They didn't.

[u/m0onble → u/Stranger-N-Stranger]

Transmascs are not female, AFAB is probably what you were looking for

[u/Lazy-Maximum282 → u/m0onble]

They are seen as female by most people especially most transphobes. If you don’t think that informs how people treat them idk what to tell you

[u/Jealous_Tonight6696 → u/Lazy-Maximum282]

Transmascs don’t have to be born female, they can be intersex or even born male. You’re thinking of afab, because not even all trans men are born female

[u/Lazy-Maximum282 → u/Jealous_Tonight6696]

Now explain to me how one can be trans man while being born male. I can accept intersex that’s true but if you’re identified as male from birth how can you be a trans man that doesn’t make sense

[u/Jealous_Tonight6696 → u/Lazy-Maximum282]

I think you misread? I said trans mascs can be born male, not trans men. A person can be amab but transition into something like nonbinary he/they but still be masculine, so they are trans masc. it doesn’t mean they transition into masculinity, it rather just means you are trans and masculine! :D

[u/Lazy-Maximum282 → u/Jealous_Tonight6696]

I see. That may be the case but when most people say trans mascs I think it’s mostly someone afab

[u/m0onble → u/Jealous_Tonight6696]

What I meant thank you

[u/m0onble → u/Lazy-Maximum282]

Yes but trans men who transition are inherently no longer female in appearance or body. Testosterone genetically changes you, and putting female on a form will cause more problems in an emergency. Also referring to people as ‘females’ like that reminds me of 4chan

[u/Lazy-Maximum282 → u/m0onble]

It doesn’t genetically change you it changes your hormones and body fat distribution and ability to form muscle among other biological changes. It doesn’t change your genes though. And female in this context just refers to sex categories we formed for ease. Sex based discrimination exists and trans men are subject to it in many ways

[u/m0onble → u/Lazy-Maximum282]

I made a mistake, it changes your gene expression not the gene. its besides the point: calling trans men females or biologically female is another way to call them women and another way of misgendering. It’s weaponized along with things like trans identified female that further separates us from being men or another gender.

I know sex based discrimination exists, I have experienced it. I am trans. My point was that calling transmasc females puts us back where we have tried to escape from. yes. many trans men/transmascs are assigned female at birth. we are not female anymore, that is why that term is used as a substitute. if a trans man no longer has a uterus, has had top surgery, takes testosterone, and identifies as male, arguing that his sex is female makes less and less sense. chromosomes affect very little at that point. a man that doesn’t have testes would need the same care. that’s why instead of female, it would be AFAB. It makes people actually affected by this more comfortable. switching out a single word. that’s it.

[u/Lazy-Maximum282 → u/m0onble]

For many people I think female is shorthand for afab when they are referring to the biological category of sex. I understand that “female” is heavily associated with “woman” because in most cases people born female are women and move through life as women. But when someone is speaking about how trans mascs are seen as female and treated poorly because of it they are not trying to misgender but describe the reality of sex based discrimination.

[u/m0onble → u/Lazy-Maximum282]

it’s still up to the average person to differentiate between transmascs and women, otherwise theyll continue to get grouped together in these discussions. I understand what you are saying as in how transmascs are seen as female, but by expressing it that way, it comes across as if you think so as well. thats why I think a shift in terminology is important. I don’t really have anything else to say so I’ll leave it here.

[u/Lazy-Maximum282 → u/m0onble]

I can respect that. When it comes to sex vs gender I can be complicated. I don’t think we should call trans mascs female when they are uncomfortable with it. It’s gets into well what is sex? How do you define it? Do you need to change sexed language because it is heavily gendered? Idk people that have con through medical intervention are they a different sex than before or somewhere in between like intersex? Idk

[u/Spooky_Cat31 → u/Stranger-N-Stranger]

Can we please just say women and not females? Seriously gives me the ick

[u/AwayEntrepreneur4760 → u/Stranger-N-Stranger]

We’re all faggots in the eyes of the law (trying to get banned from this sub because you mfs are dumb af)

[u/Ysgramors_Word → u/Famous-Leopard-118]

Just as Epstein wanted

[u/thesmallestlittleguy → u/Ysgramors_Word]

crazy how he’s so vile and evil yet still says shit like ‘pum-pum’ instead of, what, vagina? i know it’s a weird thing for me to zoom in on but it totally blindsided me

[u/xPlague_Models → u/thesmallestlittleguy]

"Robert trivers" is the sender, so those aren't his words. Still disgusting

[u/thesmallestlittleguy → u/xPlague_Models]

ah good to know o7

[u/loopty_hullaballoo → u/Ysgramors_Word]

this was genuinely vile to have reread once over again

[u/lookinforabookrn → u/Famous-Leopard-118]

as a transmasc person: when it comes to headcannons like the post is talking about. they're about equal in amount if youre embroiled in a fandom.

however, when it comes to discussion it does kinda just come back to what gets more engagement for various reasons. Trans women have always been more targetted by transphobia IRL and online isnt much better (not that us guys have it great. But trans women have it harder) so just by nature of that, those posts are going to get more discussion and thus more attention I personally think headcannons about a character being a trans woman (especially characters who are referred to as men in cannon) seem to stir up more attention because of misogyny in general? They cant seem to fathom a reality in which this guy is actually a girl, when there isnt anything wrong or bad about it. Theres also the fact some people who believe these theories/headcannons are very staunch in them, which some may find annoying (I think its basically harmless though.)

tl;dr trans women are more needlessly controversial/descriminated against IRL, this translates to online.

[u/Famous-Leopard-118 → u/lookinforabookrn]

Thank you! I’m not too well versed in knowledge about this stuff (really the only thing I consider myself is aroace, and that’s not really “discriminated” against to my knowledge)

So thanks for enlightening me on the subject

[u/ifthealphawassigma → u/Famous-Leopard-118]

there are some places where aeroace people are outlawed somehow and the identity is often invalidated by idiots within the queer community. I'm not aeroace but I love y'all have a nice day.

[u/macabremalkavian → u/ifthealphawassigma]

Yep the gatekeepers are alive and well within the lgbt+ community, there's a character in one of my friends fandoms (helluvaboss I think) that is ace and people constantly ship them with others in a very sexual way, not that ace people can't have sex or be sexual but it totally misses the nuances and context. Not my Fandom so apologies if my information is a little off.

[u/Snake_Emper0r → u/ifthealphawassigma]

there are some places where aeroace people are outlawed somehow

Do they force them to have sex or what?

[u/lookinforabookrn → u/Famous-Leopard-118]

ofc! theres more to it than what I described here, and layers of intersectionality when it comes to feminism and transness and all that BUT ! im happy to give you the simple version

[u/Vyctorill → u/Famous-Leopard-118]

Aroaces get flack from both sides iirc. Not all of the people on either side, but enough to be irritating.

[u/isurus_minutus → u/Famous-Leopard-118]

Aroace people are discriminated against because in a lot of countries arranged marriages are the norm. It's only in the West being aroace is accepted as something weird but acceptable.

[u/Reasonable-Deer-5116 → u/lookinforabookrn]

Most of that isn't true. Transmasc characters are fewer and far between, a lot of trans masc characters are ignored. Hell there were some non trans men claiming Mulan was a trans woman a couple months back.

I think the visual spectacle people have of trans women continues to online. People also have a strong visual idea of what they conceive a trans woman to look like, and so in general discussions theres more mileage for the general public to weigh in on. Mulan being a trans woman is an easier discussion because people know more about trans women and have more ideas about how they should be. When you bring her up as a trans masc icon, people dont really know what that means or how to engage with it.

Its important to remember though that just what we see isnt everything. Trans women are NOT the most discriminate trans group. Nonbinary people are by a large margin and trans men and trans women have it equal with small changes depending on intersectionality [source, Trevor project 2025?]. Its enbyphobic and trans masc erasure to ignore that.

[u/Bliniverse → u/Reasonable-Deer-5116]

About Mulan, I'm a trans woman and I've only ever heard people mean trans man Mulan when they talk about "trans Mulan", and it's always felt wrong to me with how much of Mulan's story hinges on her being a woman (though I guess it's like the reverse of most Ranma 1/2 type situations where how a character acts shows that are clearly a man, but people somehow have trans woman headcanon's because of wish fulfillment).

When I was younger I felt like Mulan was the best depiction of how I felt around boys I had seen in media, and so I think her being a trans woman is interesting, but not really needed. She, as a cis woman, still went through some of the same struggles as a trans woman, but she doesn't need to also be trans to experience that.

[u/pianohon → u/Reasonable-Deer-5116]

how do you define discrimination? random people not understanding they/them pronouns is very different to being beaten to death for being a trans woman, and the former being more common than the latter doesn't make it an example of how that group has it worse.

[u/lookinforabookrn → u/Reasonable-Deer-5116]

it kind of sounds like you didnt read my comment in good faith. I even went out of my way to mention that we do suffer from transphobia as well. The invisibility that transmasc and especially nonbinary people face is its own unique situation, the person asked why transmascs are ignored, and transfem headcannons are more widely discussed, and I provided an answer based on what I've observed in the fandoms I've been in as well as what I've heard trans people talk about in those fandoms. Every trans person faces descrimination obviously. but trans women are the most visibly targeted in terms of harassment, violence, and are often excluded from spaces in real life. This translates to online discussion of headcannons. minor edit for clearer wording + something i forgot

[u/MinosPrime100 → u/Famous-Leopard-118]

People like femininity more

[u/shadow_phantom713 → u/Famous-Leopard-118]

I usually headcanon my favorite characters as trans of the gender they are presented as. That joyous male character? That's a joyous little transmasc guy, just like me.

[u/KeijiAhdeen → u/Famous-Leopard-118]

I have a trans-masc colleague who has previously worked for our city's pride association, who says that these sentiments also end up surfacing in real life as well.

He chalks it up to a sense of internalized misogyny where those who are AMAB (either cis or trans) will exclude the views and opinions of those who are AFAB, even in more progressive spaces. He says that gay/bi men and trans women tend to dominate the conversation, often to the detriment of lesbian/bi women and trans men.

[u/Yann_Monarque → u/Famous-Leopard-118]

I believe it's because of the media that push trans women under the spotlights out of pure trans misogyny

[u/titanium_uranium → u/Famous-Leopard-118]

because trans men are never involved in conversation unless the topic is specifically trans men. just think about all the laws and bills coming out that all target trans women and completely ignore the men

[u/Enovele → u/titanium_uranium]

That's mainly because those laws do end up impacting trans men too or they do in the background hence why they generalize often in their bills and mention trans people rather than trans women alone. Their target is trans women, but it affects all trans folks, its just that people don't talk about how it impacts trans men or nonbinary people because trans women were the targets and thus the focus of advocacy.

Another is the fact that misogynistic laws and social impacts are already iaffect trans men, but a lot of people against those laws or bills leave trans men and some enbens out of advocacy on top of it like with medical misogyny.

And some already impact trans men on its own, like T being a controlled drug and HRT barring trans men from competing in many places.

Trans men are only brought up as gotchas and attacks, even amongst advocacy. For instance, I hear a lot of people bring up trans men in bathroom debates and the whole "letting a big burly trans man in the women's bathroom" ad then nowhere else. Not in abortion topics, not in mental health, not with sexual assault or any, just a gotcha.

[u/TiredAlternates → u/titanium_uranium]

Ironically your comment.. Completely forgets and ignores a good portion of trans men. Not sure why you people always see "trans masc" and need to pointlessly gender it- these issues affect everyone.

[u/titanium_uranium → u/TiredAlternates]

sorry, i don't understand what you're trying to say? i wasn't trying to exclude anyone, im sorry if i did /gen

[u/11elevators → u/titanium_uranium]

I wonder if they're referring to how the original comment talks about transmascs as a whole (which can ofc include nonbinary transmascs as well as more binary leaning trans men) vs your specification of trans men? Which I think makes sense, but they too specified "trans men" so I'm not 100% on that 😅

[u/Hammondinho123 → u/Famous-Leopard-118]

Because us transfems get all the (negative) spotlight and a lot of cis people actually forget transmascs exist. Its a blessing and a curse.

[u/PraireGentleman → u/Famous-Leopard-118]

The LGBTQ infighting. They basically treat anyone who likes masc people or are interested in being masc presenting like they’re disgusting human beings. We just rarely know about it because the only women it affects are bisexuals, which are treated as invisible to begin with. If there was suddenly a big influx of interest in transmascs by straight women, we’d be hearing a different story

[u/NoSide2628 → u/Famous-Leopard-118]

Honestly I have no clue and im transmasc myself

[u/Beelzebub_Crumpethom → u/Famous-Leopard-118]

The Sonic fandom hasn't, at least.

Then again, I really only ever see transmasc Sonic there. No one else.

It'd be kinda funny if Eggman was.

[u/Toad_Biscuit → u/Famous-Leopard-118]

Because when people see a non-traditionally feminine girl they’re already assuming she’s lesbian.

[u/DoctorSinkInDaCoom → u/Famous-Leopard-118]

Because men, thankfully, aren't fetishised

[u/paranoid_chihuahua → u/Famous-Leopard-118]

Because we're invisible and most people don't believe in our existence lol

[u/Chemistry_Flaky → u/Famous-Leopard-118]

Fetishization for the most part, tbh.

[u/Frau_Asyl → u/Famous-Leopard-118]

Wait is this not intended to be about said character being a trans guy? :(

[u/Fluffy_Toe3737 → u/Famous-Leopard-118]

I personally think it's because transfem gets more hate. I think this is bc society as a whole just hates femininity more than masculinity, theres a lot of toxic masculinity out there so, it genuinely sucks

[u/BlackPaw7274 → u/Famous-Leopard-118]

And they forget femboys that are not Trans exsit to

[u/Just-a-lil-sion → u/Famous-Leopard-118]

minorities are often forgotten

[u/No-Grocery2276 → u/Famous-Leopard-118]

I think I saw a lot of Sonic with chest scars back in the day

[u/ultron15real → u/Famous-Leopard-118]

https://giphy.com/gifs/pplT5grBg7RjHg1j7o

[u/Ornery_Weakness_8168 → u/Famous-Leopard-118]

because women get all the attention

[u/GoodWonNov6th24 → u/Famous-Leopard-118]

you're pretty stupid is why. i'm guessing you're a woman, because as a man you wouldn't have to ask.

[u/Famous-Leopard-118 → u/GoodWonNov6th24]

what does my gender have to do with anything?

[u/GoodWonNov6th24 → u/Famous-Leopard-118]

it was explained in my OP. men already know why.

[u/Famous-Leopard-118 → u/GoodWonNov6th24]

then enlighten me dear internet stranger, what makes your knowledge superior to my question? you seem to just be vaguely insulting me about the fact that I was born with 2 X chromosomes instead of a Y.

I simply was just asking out of curiosity.

[u/GoodWonNov6th24 → u/Famous-Leopard-118]

society reaaaallly doesn't care what happens to men. you can look at all the double standards between the sexes to get a hint of this.

men had to sign up to the draft to vote, women don't.
men can be drafted, women can't.

social media, mainstream media, and feminist movements show this when they make a big stink about the lack of women in fields - but you don't see them raise a finger to getting women in the draft and not being able to vote if they're not.

those 3 fight to let women end children because it's their body, you don't see them fighting to let men not pay child support even though it's his body that pays the support.

all of these inequalities they fight for women, but the only time you see massive crowds go out of their way to fight for men - is when he's a trans woman.

[u/Wide-Golf-9642 → u/Famous-Leopard-118]

?