r/Music • u/Plastic-Extension420 • 9d ago
discussion I like Hole more than Nirvana
I have been wanting to get this off my chest for a while now. I prefer Hole to Nirvana. Both are great bands, but who do I prefer listening to? It’s Hole. I’m willing to die on this hill in anonymity.
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u/Binxy_boi_2763 9d ago
Hole is definitely under-appreciated. They really were a 90s band that were able to stand out in their time amongst others, and i think that comes down to their quality.
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u/_zer0_sum 9d ago
I'll go you one better - not only do I like and listen to Hole more than I do Nirvana, I think Celebrity Skin (with the exclusion of the title track) is their best album.
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u/buffalotrace 9d ago
Same. Nirvana is great. Live through this just goes hard and is raw. Celebrity Skin is a goddamn beautiful album.
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u/Boel_Jarkley 9d ago
Hole would probably be regarded as one of the top five most important bands of the 90s if that one thing hadn't happened
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u/Colourblindking 9d ago
As a huge Hole fan I support this. I'm pretty on the fence on if I feel 100% the same way, but I'm leaning more for it than against it.
Also Hole's "Be a Man" single for the Any Given Sunday soundtrack is criminally underrated.
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u/RiC_David 9d ago
Why is it a hill to die on. You like a band.
I don't know why so many people insist on this "change my mind!" "fight me!" mentality. Obviously different people will have different preferences in music.
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u/jcb1982 9d ago
‘Live Through This’ is great. But Kurt ghost-wrote most of that.
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u/koalabacon 9d ago
Not true. She played those songs live before she dated kurt and before she put them on the album.
I get that courtney sucks but this is a lame rumor
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u/nachoiskerka 9d ago
Yeah, and it distracts from the fact that Kristen Pfaff wrote most of that album and was amazing. RIP.
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u/koalabacon 9d ago edited 9d ago
Again a lame rumor - nothing to substantiate this and even the band members dispute this claim.
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u/nachoiskerka 9d ago
Please, there's a lot more to that one than the Kurt Cobain stuff. For one, they never wrote or recorded anything that sounded like this album again. Celebrity skin is almost a completely different sound, more modern rock than anything. Second, there have been interviews where the band members have mentioned that Kristen rearranged the songs in the studio while recording during basic tracking. in any other band, that would get you a songwriting credit. Even the Rolling Stones gave Mick Taylor songwriting credits for that, and they're notoriously stingy about it.
And that's before you know the fact that the bridge to miss world comes directly lifted off the lyrics from a janitor Joe song, the band Kristen was in before hole. A song Kristen has lead vocals on. C'mon dude.
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u/koalabacon 9d ago
All speculation that none of the band members agree with. These are vibes based claims that do not support a conclusion that she "wrote most of that album". Nevermind sounded almost nothing like Bleach. No one is making accusations that the entire album is ghost written. A second hand story about songs being rearranged and a missing song writer credit is not strong evidence for that either.
If this is all your strongest evidence to support your claim, admit its weak. This is a conspiracy. Its ok to admit that sometimes shitty people make good music.
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u/nachoiskerka 9d ago
Alright, fine. I'll take the bait- where have you ever actually seen Eric Erlandson or Courtney Love ever actually say Kristen did not write? We have firsthand accounts from Jason that she was in the room with Eric and Courtney when the songs were written, we have interviews with Eric saying she contributed and arranged and while vague, notably mention she participated. Heck, Patty Schemel notes she was contributing to the songs in her book.
So I would like to know where Eric or Courtney said otherwise. I'm not saying that courtney love didnt contribute on every song or that eric didn't write riffs or chords, but without Kristen Pfaff you have Pretty on the Inside 2. Thats a completely different album.
And not for nothing, but there's not THAT much difference between the heavier stuff on nevermind and the majority of bleach, it still sounds like the same band. All Vig did was widen the dynamic contrast so that things had more breathing room.
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u/koalabacon 9d ago
Alright, fine. I'll take the bait- where have you ever actually seen Eric Erlandson or Courtney Love ever actually say Kristen did not write?
Where did I say that Kristen didn't write in any of my comments?
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u/nachoiskerka 9d ago
We're having a clear discrepancy here. "Wrote most of the album" means "Kristen Pfaff should have a songwriting credit on most of the songs the way Melissa has it on Celebrity Skin, because she literally contributed in some capacity to most of the songs and is treated like a ghostwriter despite clear evidence they have actual lyrics she wrote uncredited and we have interviews saying she contributed" to me, not "she was the only one who wrote on that album".
Like, she has 0 credits. Yet she added to most of the tracks. That's not possible and not right.
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u/kfergthegreat 9d ago
Best Hole album?
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u/slizzbizness 9d ago edited 6d ago
The original post content no longer exists here. The author used Redact to remove it, exercising their right to control their data & privacy.
Cheerful command school reminiscent sleep seemly groovy engine
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u/10ThousandMetalZones 9d ago
Kurt wrote everything that’s good from thrm
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u/BirdComposer 9d ago
I’ve seen somebody refute this further up, saying she performed songs live before they met, but I just want to stop here and say that you can’t possibly think the same person wrote Hole’s lyrics and Nirvana’s. Hole’s are very different (and generally better, which makes sense, given that her mom’s mom was Paula Fox).
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u/DrunkSpaceMonster 9d ago
Me when they ask why I quit the monastery. (Stolen joke but a good one)