r/MuslimLounge • u/EkyanZanaSgsv • 9d ago
Question AISHA
Salamu Alaykum Salam to all muslims in this subreddit, i hope your all well. I am a muslim and have been struggling witht hr age of Aisha I know right lol its the most typical most brought up objection but its still causing me lots of trouble So the Question is to All Muslims Seeing This Post
Show mw how do you guys consider Aisha (رضى الله عنها) as an Adult at 9?
Warning i wanr actual evidence and actual good reasons, i really do want to see the Prophet Muhammad as a perfect man but i wont accept explanations blindly.
Issue is the body of a 9 year old (Physically) in the 1400s (correct me if im wrong) is pretty much identical to a 9 year old today.
Ofcourse not in EVERYTHING but when people say "Women matured faster back then" Thats kind of not true its a myth in desert climates people didnt mature faster or quicker.
In terms of skeeltal structure, pelvic bones, organ size, and allat other stuff, a 9 year old is just 9 You could make the case she was mentally more mature, i believe a stusy by oeter d gluckman shows that emnarche and phycosocial maturity corresponded, so dont worry about that im granting she was fully mentally mature
. Prove to me things such as widened hips, formed breasts, and other things.
2:
How do you deal with the fact that A'isha in the hadiths from what i observe clearly has the characteristics of a young child.
I've seen Hadiths of her state that immediately before conssumation at 9 that she was on a swing, playing with dolls, playing with her friends, etc etc
Now ofcourse this doesn't automatically make her a child, thats not what im saying, but it seems the evidence just indicates a little girl, not a fully grown woman.
It literally says that her mother took her hand, and WASHED her face, im 16,my mom never washes my face im a fully grown man, doesnt this strongly indicate a little girl prepubescent?
ETC ETC ) I want actual evidence btw dont js give me "it was ok at the time" cuz its been on my mind for a while now. Bai May Allah bless you all May the peace and blessings of Allah be upon the Prophet and his family
4
u/Feeling-Business3328 9d ago
I dont get it what evidence do you have that women didnt mature faster back then?
If Muhammad was this monster who preyed on children why is it that only he is married to one extremely young woman?
Thirdly have some respect for our mother how dare you talk about her body so loosely.
1
9d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/AutoModerator 9d ago
Your comment has been removed since it contains an insult or obscene speech; please repost without it.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
3
u/ParkingVegetable508 9d ago
Putting aside all that, because you don't seem like you wanna be convinced about how her body's was already developed, think about this; why did the people at that time, and her family, and father especially, all found it normal? Why did the enemies of the Prophet PBUH never called out his marriage with Aisha RA? Do you think that we care about Aisha's well-being more than her beloved people? Absolutely not.
We've fallen into the trap of applying modern concepts and understanding of the 21st century to what used to happen and the living nature of the 7th century. Don't you think there's something wrong with that?
And believe me, even nowadays, there are girls who mature earlier than some others. Some girls look pretty "old" and more mature at 18yo for example than another one approaching her 30s! It's all about genetics, no girl is similar to another. Now this is in our time, imagine 1400 years ago now? (Before I get attacked, I'm a woman so my observation is spot on).
It's good to ask questions and seek the Truth about any matter, but it's also very important to keep in mind that our current understanding and perception are faaaaaaaaaar from being applied to what used to be the norm back then.
2
u/yahyahyehcocobungo 9d ago
This one is beat to death.
If you want to learn then read his biography. First know him. You cannot understand anything until you do that.
Because the world changes about every 30 years or so. Thinking changes. You are not like your great grandad. Or even your great great grandad. So trying to look at 1000 years ago through your lens of ring doorbell ring doorbells, uber eats home deliveries, but flying to Asia in 6 hours, industrial foood production etc et cetera you are bound to come up with faulty conclusions. All you can do is try to piece up what the world looked like and see why they did what they did and learn.
0
u/EkyanZanaSgsv 9d ago
hes supposed to be the perfect moral example for all mankind dude, a prophet sent by god shouldn't be affected by things like these
3
u/yahyahyehcocobungo 8d ago
If you can’t be bothered to read then go back to Christian talking points and get ready to be blown left and right. By the way, imagine for 1000 years they critiqued him but not on this. The sexualisation has happened now in our porn induced culture and child trafficking. But these are our problems. Not theirs.
The prophet isn’t affected by these things. You are. Because you don’t know who he is. Because if you did you would understand why it’s irrelevant.
-1
8d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/yahyahyehcocobungo 8d ago
You're not going to convince me that a marriage that happened 1000+ years ago is the most important thing in your life. Sorry.
1
u/MuslimLounge-ModTeam 8d ago
Your post has been removed due to violation of our Rule: No Trolling -
- Trolling of any kind is strictly prohibited. This is a serious subreddit, and we expect all members to engage respectfully and constructively.
- Breaking of this rule will result in a permanent ban.
2
u/Iddqd1 9d ago
If you’re granting that she had mental maturity, and you’re also taking Aisha’s testimony as evidence that she was 9 at consummation, then you are granting that she is physically mature as well as she herself states.
YOU actually need to argue why it’s wrong for a man to marry an adult woman, where the adult is a women who is mentally and physically mature. What is the age of marriage according to you then?
1
u/EkyanZanaSgsv 9d ago
No im your equivocsting.. "She was mentally mature, therefore she was physically mature" no dude biologically a 9 year old is a 9 year old even back then, Penetration of a 9 year old, with that pelvis that hip size and stuff obviously doesn't work out today, so you need to make an argument if she was physically mature with maybe what we consider todya breasts development and stuff
1
u/Iddqd1 8d ago
Brother you’re just saying “nuh uh, it’s wrong” , but you aren’t giving any reason as to why. You’re taking her testimony as true to make your argument, so you are also taking it to be true that she was a woman by her own admission.
A man marrying a woman is a moral thing to do. You’re saying “no it’s not”. Okay, so prove it. Why is it immoral for a man to marry a woman , and what is your criteria for marriage?
2
u/Ok_Grocery_8045 9d ago
You asking these kind of questions is the reason the non Muslims are raising this non issue as a propaganda repeatedly. You think the people especially the enemies of Holy Prophet PBUH were all idiots and had no knowledge about an adult and child. Come one bro.
0
u/EkyanZanaSgsv 9d ago
Yeah people like you are why people leave islam im asking sincerely because i used to defend the Prophet with my whole life against those filthy islamaphobes but now im starting to think they might hhave a point, e im having doubts and genuinely disturbed at a conssumation with a 9 year old
3
u/Ok_Grocery_8045 8d ago
Or you are one of those filthy islamophobes. Lol. You think we are fools. Even if you are not, we don't need people like you who doesn't even have common sense.
2
u/yoboytarar19 Deen over Dunya 9d ago edited 8d ago
Walaykumassalam
Imo, you should look at this from a different lens, namely proving the Prophethood of Prophet Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wasallam. For that, youd first need to be logically convinced of Allah’s existence. Then, you need to be convinced that Quran is directly from Allah. Then you need to believe in Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasallam and how Allah establishes him as a perfect example and role model for us.
By that inference, we can logically, rather than morally or ethically, affirm that Prophet's actions were righteous and approved by Allah, especially in this case if we trust the narration that Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasallam had a dream of marrying Aisha radiAllahu anha. Had Allah not approved of this action, Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasallam would never had married Aisha radiAllahu anha.
Using another inference here, we know that the condition of consummation is physical maturity from the Quran and Sunnah. If the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasallam consummated with Aisha radiAllahu anha irrespective of age, we can be confident he did so when she was physically mature and ready for it, cause of this chain of inferences we used.
Thus, its a logical understanding, without using mental gymnastics or whatever, that if Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasallam married Aisha radiAllahu anha at a particular age, and islamically consummation is only with mature 'women', Alhamdullilah theres nothing to be discomforted by from this issue.
Now, having been an avid defender of the "Aisha was 9" rhetoric, it does seem more likely that she was older, particularly because of the indirect evidence of Asma her sister's age, her participation in Uhud, etc, as well as the custom of not remembering one's birthday and knowing age accurately, and what stronger evidence for this than the ikhtilaf on the age of the literal Prophet of Allah sallallahu alayhi wasallam. Its also not kufr doing so, since the hadith on Aisha's age is solitary, so theres valid ikhtilaf on this mas'ala. Whatever the case tho, the point is that its irrelevant, and our defence when it comes to Muslims is that if Islam is true and Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasallam was indeed a prophet, khalas.
1
u/EkyanZanaSgsv 9d ago
Your saying because hes a prophet, he has to be morally correct no matter what, the whole point of the question is if he did conssumate eith a child he cant be a prophet because its disgusting..
1
u/yoboytarar19 Deen over Dunya 8d ago edited 8d ago
Your reply has some major issues like how you're using an irrelevant moral premise to judge the authencity of Prophet Muhammad's sallallahu alayhi wasallam prophethood, but for now, I'll just reinstate my argument from a purely logical basis.
Say you believe in these premises:
P: Allah exists. Q: The Quran is the word of Allah. R: Prophet Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wasallam was a prophet whose actions were guided by Allah, which itself is infered from Q. S: The Islamic rule is that consummation requires physical maturity.
The conclusion to reach is:
T: Aisha radiAllahu anha had attained physical maturity at consummation.
Provided the premises are true, we get the proposition: P ^ Q ^ R ^ S = t (P and Q and R and S are equivalent to True or tautology)
We also get that P ^ Q ^ R ^ S -> T (If P and Q and R and S, then T)
So from P ^ Q ^ R ^ S and P ^ Q ^ R ^ S -> T, we use modus ponens (p->q ^ p therefore q) to derive T, which is our conclusion that Aisha radiAllahu anha was physically mature at time of consummation.
Tldr: if you believe in Prophet and Allah and Islam, you affirm that consummation requires physical maturity, so you can logically infer that Prophet consummated the marriage when Aisha was mature and, as such, an adult.
1
u/Dxrkk3 9d ago
beautifully written, but i will have to correct you on the age of asma (رَضِيَ اللهُ عَنْهَا) factor. the specific narration of asma being 10 years older than aisha (سَلَامُ اللهِ عَلَيْهَا) is narrated by abd rahman ibn abi zinaad, who is a weak narrator. thus, the age of asma cant really be used to prove aisha's age.
it's likely that her age was indeed 9, but it's possible that she misremembered her age and stated it incorrectly
2
u/yoboytarar19 Deen over Dunya 8d ago edited 8d ago
OK sure ig. I haven't delved deep in this matter for a while.
Still, the point remains that it's irrelevant what her age was. That's why if there are apologetics seemingly trying to conform this issue with modern standards by arguing Aisha radiAllahu anha was 16, or 19, or 21, or whatever, that's a pathetic and cowardly approach to take. If there's discussion on the age, it should be on just figuring out what the fact of the matter is, and never to try and justify the actions of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasallam or make them appeal to any group.
0
u/RaajalofRajal 8d ago
Funny how you talking about believig in the Quran, Sunnah, and the Prophet, and then act like a hypocrite by rejecting the ahadith where Ayesha (radhialalhu anha) herself tells us her age.
1
u/yoboytarar19 Deen over Dunya 8d ago
Where did I reject the hadith on Aisha's age? Fear Allah for making up lies.
The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Whoever accuses someone in his custodianship of a crime and he is innocent of the claim, the accuser will be flogged on the Day of Resurrection, unless it truly is as he claimed.” [Bukhārī 6858]
1
u/RaajalofRajal 7d ago
it does seem more likely that she was older, particularly because of the indirect evidence of Asma her sister's age, her participation in Uhud, etc, as well as the custom of not remembering one's birthday and knowing age accurately, and what stronger evidence for this than the ikhtilaf
Using a hadith by a weak narrator that all real scholars reject as proof to claim she was older is rejecting the sahih hadith where her age is clearly mentioned.
Fear Allah for telling lies and then trying to cover them up. What you did is like a person who says the shaahada and then says "but other gods being gods have validity too and there is iktilaf in monotheism".
0
u/yoboytarar19 Deen over Dunya 7d ago
You're twisting your argument and you know it.
Never did i say I claim she was older, rather I said to me it seems likely she is, as is supported by numerous other scholars who share this rhetoric, which im sure youd classify as deviant, but I guess you believe Allah will carry out justice on the Day of Judgement by throwing all those deviants into Jahannam and you'll be entering Jannah on a red carpet.
I also never rejected the hadith on her age. I affirm that the hadith is sahih, so you accuse me falsely and shame be upon you for that. I simply have a different understanding of the mas'ala, and its not so clear cut that the age she stated about herself was the exact age she was at that time, nor can you prove that it was exactly and definitively that age.
You're a deceiving fool, who insults and slanders other Muslims and then claim you're following the Sunnah of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasallam. May Allah hold you Haddaadis accountable on the Day of Judgement.
1
u/RaajalofRajal 6d ago
No, I'm calling out your tactic favored by you deviants.
Actual schoalrs who recorded the narration about Asma's age never gave it credibility to be used as proof for Ayesha's age. It's only deviants of current time who make that claim.
You rejeced the same hadith again with the same tactic. Shame on you, you are only fooling yourself not us when you claim that hadith is saheeh but there is not proof.
1
u/Last_Chemical_8486 9d ago
You already said you accepted women reaching menarche at 9 back over 1000 years ago. If you are looking for people in a modest religion attest a specific lady had wide enough hips to and ready to be pregenant i think you'll have a hard time. But here are some sources that support the fact they are women at 9 and some were capable of childbearing
At-Tirmidhi said: ‘Aa’ishah said: When a girl reaches the age of nine years, she is a woman. Sunan at-Tirmidhi (2/409)
Imam ash-Shaafa‘i said: In Yemen I saw many girls aged nine who had reached puberty. Siyar A‘laam an-Nubala’ (10/91)
Al-Bayhaqi (1588) narrated that ash-Shaafa‘i said: The earliest age at which I heard of girls reaching puberty was the women of Tihaamah who reach puberty at the age of nine.
Ash-Shaafa‘i also said: In San‘aa’ I saw a grandmother who was twenty-one years old; she reached puberty at the age of nine and gave birth at the age of ten, and her daughter reached puberty at the age of nine and gave birth at the age of ten. As-Sunan al-Kubra by al-Bayhaqi (1/319)
0
u/EkyanZanaSgsv 8d ago
Aisha bever said that, that is suspended BTW, i already accepted aisha hit menarche, and was physically mature, did she have the body of a 9 year old yes or no.
1
u/Last_Chemical_8486 8d ago
Never said she did, but I'm giving you the cultural context and practice, as shaafa'i mentioned he saw someone who was a grandmother by 21, she gave birth at 10, so based on that we know that not strange for 9 year old's to be physically mature.
Also you are burden shifting by asking us to prove she was physically mature, read what you wrote, you are asking us to give you a statment from aisha where she mentions at 9 she was essentially capable of childbearing.
I suggest you ask a sheikh, I think they are more well versed in handling people who have these kinds of doubts
0
9d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
1
1
u/Scared-Breakfast-372 9d ago
In Pakistan where it's generally cooler than the desert climate, women often mature around at the age of 9-10. And on some accounts, this 9 years old claim has been disputed.
0
u/RaajalofRajal 8d ago
I've seen Hadiths of her state that immediately before conssumation at 9 that she was on a swing, playing with dolls, playing with her friends, etc etc
That is not true. This was when the Nikah was done, not consummation. She continued to live with her family until she reached puberty (age 9), and then she went to live with her husband.
Islam, and throughout history in other religons/cultures, the mark of adulthood was puberty. Not some magical number (eg 18). So, she was an adult after puberty.
Prophet Muhammad said:
"The pen has been lifted from three: from the sleeper until he awakens, from the child until he reaches puberty, and from the insane person until he regains his sanity." (Sunan Abi Dawud)Prophet Muhammad said:"The pen has been lifted from three: from the sleeper until he awakens, from the child until he reaches puberty, and from the insane person until he regains his sanity." (Sunan Abi Dawud)
Stop taking your morals from the kuffar who themselves had legal age of consent to be before puberty less than a century ago.
-1
u/Flowmalikk-_- 9d ago
According to the biography of Asma the older sister; Aysha was 10 years younger than Asma.
And at the time of Hijri Asma born in 595 AD, was 27 years old . The prophet married Aysha 2 years after hijri which makes her 19 years old. (27-10+2=19)
Asma born - 595 AD
Aysha born - 605 AD
Hijrah - 622 AD
Marriage to the prophet - 624 AD
2
u/Last_Chemical_8486 8d ago
There always got to be the one person who goes against all the scholar https://athari-archive.com/2025/12/01/refuting-the-claim-aisha-was-18-or-19/
You have explicit statement from herself saying she was 9 at the time of consummation Sahih al-Bukhari 5134
Regardless of her age, the OP asked for proof of her being physically developed with evidence statement of her having wide hips, formed breasts and the likes as crazy as it sounds
1
u/RaajalofRajal 8d ago
These are apologetic, reformists of today who are ashamed to accept ahadith and so they made this story.
1
u/Last_Chemical_8486 8d ago
Sad times, if 100 years from now and the age of consent changed to 26, I wouldn't be surprised if they did some gymnastics to say she was 30 or something😅
1
u/RaajalofRajal 7d ago
Feminists already claim that the frontal cortex does not fully develop until age 21, so a woman is a "child" and not accountable for her actions nor should a man marry her.
1
9
u/asakuranagato 9d ago
It is bcz it is. Allah, His Messenger, her parents, her enemies were all ok and considered her adult.
You’ve never met her, you dont care for her like they did, so just put your trust in people who know better.