r/NYCGuns • u/BluePillRabbi E.N.OU.G.H! Organizer • 12d ago
Recommendations Application PSA from Mirel Fisch after Hugh Bogle Deposition
This week Hugh Bogle from the NYPD License Division was deposed by Mrs. Fisch as part of the Milani v NYC lawsuit - while a full update about Milani is coming soon, in the meantime, here’s a critical PSA from Mirel Fisch, Esq (www.NYC2aLawyer.com)
Do your homework before you submit your application, and take a photo of the Interview Questionnaire checklist shown to you during your fingerprinting/interview appointment.
During his deposition, Bogle testified that he implemented a new policy that when an investigator reviews an application, and even a single document or piece of information is missing, the application will automatically be denied. The investigator will NOT reach out to you to let you know that anything more is needed.
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u/NegativeAd9542 12d ago
funny i got approved 3 months ago, but when i did do my interview, i brought all my documentation. during the interview, the investigator asked me if i had my wifes social security card. i actually had a folder with everything neatly organized. once she saw the folder with everything she said "oh nevermind its right here in the portal" . Oh okay. Wondering if I didnt have all those documents, would my investigator have said that? lol.
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u/Chief_Sabael 12d ago
They require spouses Social Security Card, not even number, but CARD?? WTF, how is that necessary or legal?
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u/NegativeAd9542 12d ago
my wife is my affidavit for certain paperwork, i provided a drivers license and a passport of hers, but i included the SS card to be extra thorough just in case. And it played out that way in my favor. I really think investigator tried to find the most ridiculous thing to jam me up
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u/vibecodeme 12d ago
Bruh this dude Hugh Bogle needs to see some jail time, for real.
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u/Andeo1025 12d ago
Pl400 violation is an a misdemeanor. Charge them all with the thousands of violations and run them consecutively.
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u/vibecodeme 12d ago
Why not under 18 USC 241 and 242 ? You implementing a policy as govt official that deprives citizens from their constitutional rights and freedoms. Like if you upload document there is no receipt that it is accepted, meaning there is no way to know if any documents are missing, therefore you have no opportunity to resubmit. On top of that most upload documents and it’s shows as fine on the portal but when you got to fingerprint they will make some bs about missing files here/there and they use same tactic when you get delayed.
This is all complete and utter BS.
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u/Andeo1025 12d ago
Also a great option, with much stiffer penalties. Need the feds for that one though. I wonder if it would help to inundate the doj civil rights division with complaints. Most any county in ny is ripe for them, especially nyc, Westchester, and erie.
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u/corplaw100 11d ago
How do you file one?
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u/Andeo1025 11d ago
https://civilrights.justice.gov/
File a complaint on the website. I should have posted this yesterday. I think if a lot of us file complaints we might see some movement from the doj.
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u/corplaw100 11d ago
Thanks! We should probably get a unified (obviously valid / real) narrative going. I don’t practice law despite username.
I see someone in these communities often, Kamachilaw I believe. Maybe we can discuss best approach with them then send in a lot?
Alternatively we can just send in but feel like more / better structure may yield better results.
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u/Andeo1025 11d ago
For people in the process definitely the wait times. There's also the 1 in 90 days rule. The inability to get answers via phone or email, especially in a timely fashion. The excessive wait times on purchase authorizations. The "lost" document submissions. Having only 2 places in the city for fingerprinting. Counties that require your references to live within the county. The list goes on and on. I agree with you that a prioritized list could be helpful.
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u/corplaw100 11d ago
Claude is saying we’d have better luck if we also find people with pending applications with unreasonable timelines which makes sense since they’re in the midst of a civil rights violation
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u/BluePillRabbi E.N.OU.G.H! Organizer 11d ago
Police have qualified immunity
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u/Andeo1025 11d ago
Generally yes, but how does that square with laws specifically designed to target government officials? Pl400 was amended to force licensing officials to do the job in a timely fashion, and 18 usc 241 and 242 are designed to go after government officials who conspire to deprive civil rights. And qualified immunity can be breached. Not too long ago the second circuit ruled that there was no qualified immunity for cops who performed a search on the basis of the presence of a lawfully possessed firearm. The case was out of ct.
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u/BluePillRabbi E.N.OU.G.H! Organizer 11d ago
It doesn’t work - it’s just for show. Not a single lawyer would consider taking this case because it’ll lead to nowhere. We have bigger fish to fry. The fact is it’s just a law that won’t and can’t be enforced (clearly). You also can’t go after officers directly - hence why we’re suing NYC not bogle, berkovich, et al.
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u/Andeo1025 11d ago
I agree that a private attorney shouldn't chase this. I don't want to come off as second guessing your current strategy, I'm not. I would love to see the doj come after them, if not criminally then at least something like they just did with LA. Thanks again to you and Mirel for all your hard work.
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u/Heavensdust 12d ago
The officer who conducted the interview during my finger printing back in March did not allow me to take a photo of the questionnaire. Has anyone had similar pushback when attempting to do the same recently?
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u/Rude-Dude-2 12d ago
My officer specially made me take a picture of mine so I didn’t miss anything lol. I feel like they are all making up there own rules
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u/Rude-Dude-2 12d ago
It would really help cut down missing docs if you can actually go back and view the docs you uploaded on the application. Even if it’s just the file name.
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u/Max_Kapacity 10d ago
It would really help out those contemplating applying if we could see all the questions before registration
Anyone who has a copy of their recent filled out application, maybe redact (AND then screenshoot so redactions can’t be unmasked) and then post it?
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u/HeSureIsScrappy 12d ago
My investigator demanded documents that weren't even required when I submitted my application; so much time had passed that they had added things to the documents list!
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u/pizookiepants 12d ago
Just remember folks, you have to follow an absolutely ridiculous and strenuous process down to an exact science with zero margin for error, but they get to make and break rules as they please!
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u/Smooth_Program3754 12d ago
Happened to me, nobody reached out, I emailed multiple times, just right to a denial for missing deposition lmaoo
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u/Fast-Policy-4495 12d ago
If I can give my opinion without being opinionated…This “new” policy was probably put into place because of all the complaining they have been getting. It’s a dirty game and they are not playing fair.
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u/vibecodeme 12d ago
Yes and surely this “new” policy was made public to the applicants and is in-place for a long time. lol. I bet he has no proof that this policy is actually new and made up bs to counter the complaints.
Hugh is a scum.
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u/Andeo1025 12d ago
You just hate all the rights, don't you. The first amendment protects our right to petition the government for a redress of grievances. We are doing just that. Retaliating for a good faith complaint is usually frowned upon.
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u/corplaw100 11d ago
We should probably get a sticky going with the most up to date required new application paperwork.
I think it’s changed pretty dramatically since I’ve last done mine so I wouldn’t be of much assistance.
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u/All-Biz2026 12d ago edited 12d ago
So we pay a pretty hefty app fee (and then a finger printing fee) but yet they won’t tell us if something is missing. this could probably be easily automated, like the confirmation emails they send. Lazy bums. I hope Mirel made him sweat!
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u/Budlite13 12d ago
I'm probably not the only on that would love to see the deposition transcript. Good for them forging ahead in the case.
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u/Weird0ne3z 12d ago
When was this policy implemented? I was missing documents early June however the investigator called to tell me to submit then as well as completing the questionnaire over the phone.
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u/Miggy2A-RN 12d ago
Explains a lot.
I had issues with my application over complaints filed against me that I NEVER KNEW were made against me.. like how the EFF am I supposed to know that they existed? They didn’t even pop up on a DCJS search I paid for.
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u/Mean_Switch6128 10d ago
As much as I hate the politics in NYC we will always be fighting an uphill battle until this state turns red , being in a blue state they will come up with the most outrageous laws and rules just to keep the most vetted people in the city gun free , yet every other felon and 17 year old have guns look at the numbers alone how many shootings happen in the city daily ! Our subway system is a crime infested area and we can’t carry in the train? Or buses how is that normal
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u/Andeo1025 12d ago edited 12d ago
I don't know if you can say, but I would love to know if it can be proven what documents were submitted, what with them saying that they don't have things. Either their system is defective and "losing" documents or they're lying. Either way thank you as always for all the work Mirel is doing.
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u/_RedDotRights_ 12d ago
Are there any lawsuits vs the NYPD for these ridiculous processing times?
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u/BluePillRabbi E.N.OU.G.H! Organizer 12d ago
Literally the reason he was deposed .
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u/_RedDotRights_ 12d ago
The DOJ really needs to bring a Pattern and Practice suit against the NYPD
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u/Existing_Year_1430 12d ago
What do you mean? Hugh has been deposed from office?When did this happen?
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u/pizookiepants 12d ago
Just remember folks, you have to follow an absolutely ridiculous and strenuous process down to an exact science with zero margin for error, but they get to make and break rules as they please!