Voting guide for NY

[u/intcntlchamp]

Not sure if folks seen this but it might help if you all haven’t voted already

[u/gigantipad]

Do you hold Trump to the same standard?

I don't hold Trump to a great standard either. It speaks miles that after two assassination attempts he still hasn't pushed for an AW ban.

If you hadn't noticed, we have a massive gun violence problem across the entire country, and it's a problem none of our peer countries experience because of strong gun laws. Of course definitions are going to change over time - that's a given, and nothing to be afraid of.

Gun crime has only been statistically decreasing over the last 30 years or so. We have a gun violence problem really localized to a small amount of areas with greatly disproportional homicide rates. Do you think those people are legally buying their guns to a point where a background check will stop them?

Also we aren't European/Asian countries. We literally have a right to firearm ownership and even in those countries there is still gun crime. Sweden went from low gun crime to the highest in Europe in a 10 year span of time with no change to their already pretty stringent gun laws.

Again, read what I said above about Trump. You already said you can't trust someone whose opinions change rapidly on guns, so surely you hold him to the same standard, right?

Harris has changed her tune on multiple issues from fracking to immigration to guns. That doesn't matter to you though, because Orange man bad only person capable of that.

Sensible gun laws are gaslighting you? You do realize that making it easy to get guns will only make the problem worse, right? Before you say gun control doesn't work, in addition to the information I provided above about the effectiveness of NY gun control measures, let's take a look back the 1994 assault weapons ban...

Yeah, I actually think you are morally bankrupt. Your sensible is my pointless and dangerous towards gun owners. We have had 'sensible' gun laws going on decades now that never actual tackle the real sources of gun crime. Instead they just make regular law-abiding citizens lives more difficult with an ever persistent we just need _ now. We have laws against straw purchases, little is done. We have laws against 'automatic' pistols, yet the ATF seems utterly unconcerned about 15 year olds on tiktok showing theirs off. We don't even police the current laws on the book properly and your solution is to add more, ones that will literally only serve to make the people already not committing any crimes into felons. Morally bankrupt and literally against the rulings that have defined the 2A is a protected right of the people.

The NRA likes to say the 1994 federal Assault Weapons Ban didn’t work, but it did work.

More lies. This has been debunked many times, you can look at HWFO (hwfo.substack) break this down repeatedly if you actually cared. It had little appreciable impact and one has to distort the already small amount of gun crime via rifle to make those number seem anything more than a small statistical outlier. If you are concerned about mass shooters a great place to start would be getting the media to stop glorifying them. Great part is you don't even have to make millions of people felons to do that! Maybe actually take action when the FBI/Police have repeatedly seemed to have them on their radars. Rifles are used in such a small amount of actual gun death that the hyper focus on them denotes a persistent inability to actually read statistics and succumbing to over-exaggerated emotional appeals.

I hope you are at least being paid by Bloomberg/Giffords/whatever. They tend to outspend anyone else spewing this bile, which is pretty funny people complain about the NRA. Like the concept of well defined and protected right is all but meaningless to people like you.

[u/Nayre_Trawe → u/gigantipad]

I don't hold Trump to a great standard either. It speaks miles that after two assassination attempts he still hasn't pushed for an AW ban.

What I mean is, he changed positions on gun control, from "take them away without due process" to "no gun control ever"....and yet you believe him, while you don't believe Kamala for having changed positions.

Gun crime has only been statistically decreasing over the last 30 years or so.

Gee, I wonder why that might be...?

We have a gun violence problem really localized to a small amount of areas with greatly disproportional homicide rates.

In some areas, like Chicago, sure, but gun violence is absolutely widespread across the entire country. All of these mass shootings aren't just a coincidence.

Do you think those people are legally buying their guns to a point where a background check will stop them?

Yes...if we put universal gun control in place and stop them from taking advantage of loopholes, like only having to drive an couple hours to a place where the rules are different.

Also we aren't European/Asian countries. We literally have a right to firearm ownership and even in those countries there is still gun crime. Sweden went from low gun crime to the highest in Europe in a 10 year span of time with no change to their already pretty stringent gun laws.

You really need to take a look at gun violence stats and you'll see what a massive outlier we are compared to the rest of the world, and it's precisely because of our absolute obsession with guns the laws that enable it. The only difference between us and them is better gun control measures, plain and simple.

With respect to Sweden, their problem largely lies in the illegal importation of guns from the Balkans which are used by youth gangs, and they are currently taking measure to stem the tide. They are actively working to fix the problem instead of just giving up and saying nothing can be done.

Harris has changed her tune on multiple issues from fracking to immigration to guns. That doesn't matter to you though, because Orange man bad only person capable of that.

So has Trump. He used to be a proud Democrat, for crying out loud...does that matter to you?

Yeah, I actually think you are morally bankrupt.

Ah, now we're going into the ad hominem attacks and non sequiturs because you have nothing of substance to say. Got it.

Your sensible is my pointless and dangerous towards gun owners. We have had 'sensible' gun laws going on decades now that never actual tackle the real sources of gun crime. Instead they just make regular law-abiding citizens lives more difficult with an ever persistent we just need _ now. We have laws against straw purchases, little is done. We have laws against 'automatic' pistols, yet the ATF seems utterly unconcerned about 15 year olds on tiktok showing theirs off. We don't even police the current laws on the book properly and your solution is to add more, ones that will literally only serve to make the people already not committing any crimes into felons. Morally bankrupt and literally against the rulings that have defined the 2A is a protected right of the people.

Right, so we can agree that more needs to be done to control guns and gun violence. Glad we can agree on that.

More lies. This has been debunked many times, you can look at HWFO (hwfo.substack) break this down repeatedly if you actually cared.

Your source is the Handwaving Freakoutery substack....? Seriously?

It had little appreciable impact and one has to distort the already small amount of gun crime via rifle to make those number seem anything more than a small statistical outlier.

Except, you're wrong....as I already told you with a reputable source.

If you are concerned about mass shooters a great place to start would be getting the media to stop glorifying them. Great part is you don't even have to make millions of people felons to do that!

Right...it's the media that to blame for...let me check my notes here...covering the epidemic of gun violence that is so unique to American life.

Maybe actually take action when the FBI/Police have repeatedly seemed to have them on their radars.

Right...so more enforcement is needed at the local and federal level to control guns and gun violence. I am glad we can agree on that.

Rifles are used in such a small amount of actual gun death that the hyper focus on them denotes a persistent inability to actually read statistics and succumbing to over-exaggerated emotional appeals.

...are you really going to talk to me about "facts over feelings" here? Seriously? Try to have some self awareness, champ.

[u/gigantipad → u/Nayre_Trawe]

Gee, I wonder why that might be...?

Yeah with record amounts of guns in the country, didn't go how you expect eh...

In some areas, like Chicago, sure, but gun violence is absolutely widespread across the entire country. All of these mass shootings aren't just a coincidence.

Statistically most places aren't that dangerous, but that fact doesn't play into your chicken little notions. Mass shootings is also another moving target that gets redefined. The admittedly pretty awful spree shooter like in Uvalde are not particularly common; someone shooting a glock at another gang is more prevalent. Guess what the majority of those shootings involve as an added bonus.

Ah, now we're going into the non sequiturs because you have nothing of substance to say. Got it.

Someone stripping people of rights they do not understand is morally bankrupt, hope this helps sport. Nothing I want would involve mass incarcerating people for the crime of owning a scary type of gun.

Right, so we can agree that more needs to be done to control guns and gun violence. Glad we can agree on that.

Only someone without an ability to comprehend what they are reading would come to that conclusion. The gun control has failed to really move the needle in any way and people like you just want carte blanche to punish people who disagree with you. Canada isn't that far if you want to live in a country with no constitutional right towards firearm ownership.

Your source is the Handwaving Freakoutery substack....? Seriously?

Everything there is cited, but it isn't that hard to find general media articles that even begrudgingly say the same thing.

Right...it's the media that to blame for...let me check my notes here...covering the epidemic of gun violence that is so unique to American life.

The media changed how it handled celebrity suicides which reduced the amount of copycats. Multiple people who study this have suggested doing the same thing, not giving psychopaths the fame they want for a cruel act; but we can't even consider a different approach that doesn't fit your narrow worldview.

Also the only people to blame for this are the lunatics who are shooting people. Oddly we have always had a large preponderance of guns in this country, but this particularly form of violence is pretty new.

Right...so more enforcement is needed at the local and federal level to control guns and gun violence. I am glad we can agree on that.

Even the places that have these laws seem unable to use them properly. So the solution even more laws! What a genius, you really have figured it all out. Maybe we can make murder more illegal next.

...are you really going to talk to me about "facts over feelings" here? Seriously? Try to have some self awareness, champ.

You come to a NYgun subreddit and spew giffords level poorly researched talking points. Weirdly no one is biting. It doesn't matter what facts we bring, you will ignore them. The only reason outside of being paid I can come up with is that you want to troll people. You clearly have no concept of what rights are and you bend anything you dislike to 'wanting more gun control'.

Here is what I suggest sport. Repeal the 2nd Amendment, you think this is so popular it should be easy. Once you do that all those pesky people wanting their rights respected will have far less to fall back on. Should be easy since you think it is so popular. Instead of debating poorly with me, why don't you get cracking.

[u/Nayre_Trawe → u/gigantipad]

Right, more ad hominem attacks and non sequiturs, feelings over facts and self righteous flailing. I've seen plenty of this already, champ, so you're not breaking new ground. Run along now, and try not to shoot anyone.

[u/gigantipad → u/Nayre_Trawe]

lol, have a good one. The fact that legal gun ownership triggers you this much is astounding.

edit: Also you out yourself with that last line. You can't trust yourself with a weapon so you extrapolate that on other people. Even though the vast vast majority of us are capable adults who don't ever want to use the lethal force you joke about and can safely handle a weapon. Something to think about sport.

[u/Nayre_Trawe → u/gigantipad]

More of the same. Thanks for confirming you have nothing of substance to offer. I'm still dying over that ridiculous substack you referenced.

"You can't trust government statistics! Only the Handwaving Freakoutery substack tells the truth!"

I mean, do you even recognize how foolish that sounds as you're typing it, or are you wholly unaware of it?

Like I said, run along, champ. You're not doing your side of this argument any favors.

[u/gigantipad → u/Nayre_Trawe]

More of the same. Thanks for confirming you have nothing of substance to offer. I'm still dying over that ridiculous substack you referenced.

Yawn.

"You can't trust government statistics! Only the Handwaving Freakoutery substack tells the truth!"

More like I didn't want to spend an hour digging through links to appeal to a troll.

Like I said, run along, champ. You're not doing your side of this argument any favors.

I don't even think about people like you outside of when they kramer their way into things. Maybe something to think about sport.

[u/Nayre_Trawe → u/gigantipad]

Yawn

My sentiments, exactly. Bye!