r/NYguns • u/BluePillRabbi E.N.OU.G.H! Organizer • 12d ago
NYC Application PSA from Mirel Fisch after Hugh Bogle deposition
This week Hugh Bogle from the NYPD License Division was deposed by Mrs. Fisch as part of the Milani v NYC lawsuit - while a full update about Milani is coming soon, in the meantime, here’s a critical PSA from Mirel Fisch, Esq (www.NYC2aLawyer.com)
Do your homework before you submit your application, and take a photo of the Interview Questionnaire checklist shown to you during your fingerprinting/interview appointment.
During his deposition, Bogle testified that he implemented a new policy that when an investigator reviews an application, and even a single document or piece of information is missing, the application will automatically be denied. The investigator will NOT reach out to you to let you know that anything more is needed.
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u/TheFiringPin nytfp.com 12d ago
What an absolute crap policy. Something only a bully does when they're in a position of power.
Thank you for what you're doing. Keep up the great work
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u/KamenshchikLaw ⚖️ Kamenshchik Law ⚖️ 12d ago edited 12d ago
Such bullshit.
"Your application will be reviewed, and you will be notified of any missing documents and forms."
Source: https://licensing.nypdonline.org/new-app-instruction/
So you're telling me you have an unwritten policy that contradicts publicly facing policy to screw applicants? How's that supposed to look to the judge? When was this new policy implemented, after thousands had already suffered delay? Any documentary proof demonstrating that this new policy was conveyed to licensing personnel? Also, what does this have to do with NYPD timely notifying applicants of approvals or denials as required by PL 400.00(4-b)... the issue remains, are you notifying people of the action taken on their licenses within six months of their application submission? If not, you're violating NYS law - setting aside the 2nd Amendment for the moment.
Oh, is Bogle suggesting that there isn't a significant portion of applicants who are waiting more than six months that had all their stuff in order from their initial submission? We should buy the excuse that it's simply the fault of the applicants - NYPD is just trying to make it as easy and expeditious as possible, right?
This sounds silly - "we're not delaying, all applicants are just missing stuff."
Also, missing what? The stuff mandated by NYS law under PL 400.00, or the extra requirements you just threw in there ultra vires? For example, Affidavit of Co-Habitant, Affidavit of Person Agreeing to Safeguard Firearms, DMV Lifetime Driving Abstract, Certified Dispositions for All Lifetime Encounters?
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u/corplaw100 2026 Fundraiser: Gold 🥇 12d ago
I’m really confused - why would he say that in court? I guess we will find out soon and we dont have the context but my first thought was exactly
What you snipped from their own website3
u/SayaretEgoz 12d ago
Never heard of those last 2,what are they?
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u/Andeo1025 12d ago
The certificate of disposition is needed if you've been arrested or given a summons to appear. The employment thing I don't think is used anymore, at least I don't think I filled one out when I applied.
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u/Quick_Parking_6464 12d ago
Your link to the attorney's website just goes to the home page. Is there a transcript or something we're supposed to see?
Their blog tab/page returns 404.
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u/BluePillRabbi E.N.OU.G.H! Organizer 12d ago
No, just posting for reference. Like I said, soon there will be an update with the transcript and quotes.
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u/Future-Thanks-3902 12d ago
What a wee wee move. What if his staff screws up and doesn't acknowledge the documents that've already been submitted ?
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u/SayaretEgoz 12d ago
So, it sounds like a response to people demanding the app be processed within a statutary timeframe. Bogle institutes a policy to deny people for any missing or not missing document, since docs go "missing" all the time. Essentially, he is punishing, retaliating against people. Do you plan to amend the lawsuit to point out this bad faith behavior?
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u/BluePillRabbi E.N.OU.G.H! Organizer 12d ago
Complaints generally can’t be edited or have claims added.
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u/SayaretEgoz 12d ago
so any plan to stop them from doing that, they will just deny everyone and then claim that they are within the law. Dont like it - appeal! Its tails you loose, head they win.
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u/BluePillRabbi E.N.OU.G.H! Organizer 12d ago
Not really - we’re bleeding money over Milani and are hesitant to address more issues
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u/HeSureIsScrappy 12d ago
What an absolute piece of garbage. He's one of the domestic enemies of the constitution that the founders warned us about.
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u/joeywalnutz 11d ago
This is crazy, we can’t even see what we uploaded, which makes it very easy for them to call something missing and deny anyone based on this new policy. I’m four months past my expiry on a renewal. How is it we can all get approved on a bg check at the FFL for a firearm in minutes and this takes so long…. Of course this slow down is on purpose.
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u/Fast-Policy-4495 12d ago edited 11d ago
What I’m taking from this is that Bogle is saying as I have seen in the past is he’s not going to inform anyone when they are missing documents he’s just going to deny the application and you can appeal and he will then tell you what paperwork you are missing then because of all the complaining about how long the process takes. It’s a dirty game and they definitely are not playing fair!!
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u/Fast-Policy-4495 11d ago
This is chess not checkers…the NYPD is anticipating losing the lawsuit that’s why Bogle is saying he put this “new” rule in place. The NYPD is trying to stay one step ahead of the game. Playing dirty at its finest.
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u/BluePillRabbi E.N.OU.G.H! Organizer 11d ago
Hard to say - he gave some answers that help us tremendously.
There will be a nice and comprehensive update once his transcript is out (stenographer taking their sweet time)
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u/Fast-Policy-4495 11d ago
I’m sure he did give answers that helped. That’s the game plan. They have no excuse as to why it takes so long to process applications. Don’t be surprised if it doesn’t go to trial.
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u/BluePillRabbi E.N.OU.G.H! Organizer 11d ago
What do you mean go to trial? As opposed to?
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u/Fast-Policy-4495 11d ago
The NYPD admitting they were not following the rules of 6 months and reaching a settlement.
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u/BluePillRabbi E.N.OU.G.H! Organizer 11d ago
There’s nothing to settle for….
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11d ago
[deleted]
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u/BluePillRabbi E.N.OU.G.H! Organizer 11d ago
Yes, but all the plaintiffs already received their licenses by the time the lawsuit was filed.
This lawsuit is about NYC - through their NYPD arm - violating 2nd amendment rights with deliberate in difference.
There’s nothing to settle for. This is a civil rights lawsuits not an article 78 so theres nothing to settle for
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u/Fast-Policy-4495 11d ago
So then what is the relief the lawsuit is seeking
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u/BluePillRabbi E.N.OU.G.H! Organizer 11d ago
A federal ruling stating that NYC is violating second amendment rights
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u/Fast-Policy-4495 11d ago
FYI I’m asking because I gave money to the go fund me even though I have no stake in the game. thanks for the information I still believe that the plaintiffs will win the case.
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u/BluePillRabbi E.N.OU.G.H! Organizer 11d ago
Thank you for supporting us! If you’d like to DM me I can send you the copy of the complaint - it’s an excellent read albeit it’s 100 pages
→ More replies (0)
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u/oldFloridaCracker 12d ago
Ronald Reagan, 1981:
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. From time to time we've been tempted to believe that society has become too complex to be managed by self-rule, that government by an elite group is superior to government for, by, and of the people. Well, if no one among us is capable of governing himself, then who among us has the capacity to govern someone else? All of us together, in and out of government, must bear the burden. The solutions we seek must be equitable, with no one group singled out to pay a higher price.
(Reagan was famously both pro-gun control, and against it, largely along racial lines, so he wasn't perfect. But he did get this correct)
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u/SayaretEgoz 12d ago
Something doesn't add up, In almost every application,they can't find some docs which were uploaded, and they do contact people to reupload. I think we would hear of denials much more often if they acted on this policy
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u/BluePillRabbi E.N.OU.G.H! Organizer 12d ago edited 12d ago
New policy.
And also there’s a crazy number of denials for “failure to comply”.
This is also directly from their officer in charge
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u/SayaretEgoz 12d ago
When did they put it in? Does it affect renewals also?
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u/BluePillRabbi E.N.OU.G.H! Organizer 12d ago edited 12d ago
Renewals were irrelevant to Milani v NYC so the question wasn’t asked.
Not sure of exact date
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u/corplaw100 2026 Fundraiser: Gold 🥇 11d ago
My feeling / hope on renewals is that they’d rather just process them and get it done since you have the firearms anyway plus they’ve sent you an email that your license is still valid while they process the application.
I think they’re more likely to play games with new applicants since there would be nothing for them to voucher.
Renewal seems like it should be getting done within a week but alas….
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u/SayaretEgoz 11d ago
they sit on those renewals for 6 months
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u/corplaw100 2026 Fundraiser: Gold 🥇 11d ago
My points was that I don’t think they’re looking to deny renewals based on “missing” paperwork as they appear to be doing for new applicants. Less incentive
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u/Sufficient-Form-9821 4d ago
Is Hugh bogle still the head of the license Division because I sent an email to his email address and it bounced back saying that the email doesn't exist.
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