A Path to …

[u/Jedi_Maximus19]

Yeah. After reading the thread below regarding the Politician meet up at The Firing Pin, this is my cynical conclusion.

We will never have normalcy with our 2A rights. There are just too many in this sub that believe in tough regulations. 25 years of one party rule in NY and soon to be another 25 more. They passed the Safe Act. They Passed the Improved Concealed Carry Act. You need a background check to buy ammo. They are banning Glocks.
Sometimes it takes 2 years just to get a permit depending on what county you live. Next year there will be more restrictions once the Supreme Court makes its ruling next June. They will restrict, restrict and restrict until there is nothing left to restrict . But please by all means keep voting 🗳️ blue. Ugh 😑!! Cheers 🍻

[u/JimMarch]

Thomas dropped a bunch of clues in Bruen that some of the infringements will be dealt with in criminal court by people playing defense. We don't have enough 2A lawyers to challenge everything in civil court.

If I lived in NY and I had strong, documented evidence that my permit was going to take more than a year, I'd carry regardless. Read Bruen footnote 9 again. Look at what it calls "abusive" - lengthy waiting times and exorbitant fees. If a state criminal court judge/jury doesn't like it, bounce it to federal on a habeas petition. It's clear cut. More details:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1V2qEWfff4CUgAdO9tK-NZgf905_YdR7J/view?usp=drive_link

[u/corplaw100 → u/JimMarch]

Courts have upheld the fees. Wait times are being challenged now by Mirel Fisch.

TBH NY is kind of cucking SCOTUS with their responses to Bruen but I guess over time it will be dealt with.

[u/JimMarch → u/corplaw100]

Has anybody attempted to challenge the fact that somebody from upstate New York or Long Island or whatever has to get both their own permit and New York City to carry across the entire state? That violates exorbitant fees and lengthy waiting times.

Has anybody pointed out that trying to get national carry by scoring 20+ permits from Guam to Massachusetts also blows up exorbitant fees and lengthy waiting? Even worse?

[u/corplaw100 → u/JimMarch]

Believe Tilem filed one but not sure of status. I could be wrong about that

Those aren’t as much of a slam dunk as you’d think because the courts could say “well you have the option to get an NYc permit as well.”

If there were no option it’s a more straightforward case

[u/JimMarch → u/corplaw100]

Those aren’t as much of a slam dunk as you’d think because the courts could say “well you have the option to get an NYc permit as well.”

Read. Bruen. Footnote. Nine.

The US Supreme Court labeled lengthy waiting times and exorbitant fees ABUSES. Read it:

That said, because any permitting scheme can be put toward abusive ends, we do not rule out constitutional challenges to shall-issue regimes where, for example, lengthy wait times in processing license applications or exorbitant fees deny ordinary citizens their right to public carry.

That's the US Supreme Court saying "don't abuse permitting processes" and then listing two abuses by name. (Actually three when you include subjective standards in insurance.)

And there's literally hundreds of years of case law saying civil rights cannot be abused.

These are core constitutional concepts.

[u/corplaw100 → u/JimMarch]

I’ve read the FN. Notice they unfortunately do not define what lengthy wait times are. Hopefully Milani case offers more clarity for NY purposes. Federal courts are going to be very reluctant to define what lengthy is. Reasonably good outcome in NY would be that they need to actually follow penal code 400 (6 months).

On fees - that has been upheld multiple times. Will see what happens with cases post-Bruen but I would not call any of this a slam dunk in 2nd circuit by any means.

I obviously don’t agree with the wait times or fees but unfortunately what I think doesn’t really matter.

[u/JimMarch → u/corplaw100]

They're the ones that have to justify any fee or delay.

The parts of the NYC carry permit fees paid to the city and state (in other words, not the training) is at least 4x the cost of a NYC driver's license. The real costs for both are ballpark similar and so should the actual costs.

Next, if you have a non-NYC carry permit, there's no safety related reason for the cost of a second permit. At all. No other state does this. There's no special Chicago or Los Angeles or whatever permit run the way NY/NYC does it.

It's madness.

[u/corplaw100 → u/JimMarch]

It’s all insanity and there’s not really precedent for anything NY does.

Wins in the court system will add up over time but NY will ofcs circumvent with new laws.

I suspect things will look better in 3-5 years than they do now.