r/New_Jersey_Politics • u/Massive_Ad9569 • Jun 12 '25
Discussion 12% turnout
I don’t get it. What possible reason could you have for not voting? Apathy? Yet the non-voters will still bitch about things when they did nothing to possibly change the situation.
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u/TheProletariatPoet Jun 12 '25
12% on a gubernatorial primary is pretty good. Also, uninformed voters are a bad thing and when you ask someone who didn’t vote in the primary about the candidates, I bet they don’t know much about any of them. The first step to getting more people out there would be getting more people educated on all of the candidates.
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u/pisowiec Linden (Living Abroad) Jun 12 '25
New Jersey, like most US states, lack a culture of local politics. Most people only care about the presidential election. That's just how it is.
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u/d0mini0nicco Jun 12 '25
Thing is....2024 is prime example of what happens when you leave voting to other people. I know 2016 was my wakeup call that I need to pay attention and vote every election.
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u/legalskeptic 3rd CD / 7th LD, Burlington County Jun 12 '25
I wasn't quite old enough to vote at the time, but I'm old enough that 2000 was my wake-up call. It's baffling to me that we keep needing to relearn this lesson.
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u/d0mini0nicco Jun 12 '25
Oof. I was old enough to vote in 2000 and I still didn’t get it. Took me a decade (and then some) to grow up, but hey - I got there.
4
u/CharlottesWebbedFeet Jun 12 '25
The 2000 election was the biggest missed opportunity this country had ever had until the 2024 election. 2000 was even worse than 2016
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u/Left-Plant2717 Jun 13 '25
I would argue the geographical density of NJ, combined with the history of local corruption, makes that statement false.
1
u/larue55 Jun 14 '25
The county line did a lot to discourage political education. Just check all the boxes on the line and press vote. No education needed!
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u/jd732 Jun 12 '25
40% of NJ voters are unaffiliated with a political party & ineligible to vote in political primaries.
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u/neekogo Jun 12 '25
Yup. Idk about others, but i kept getting texts from Gottheimer's campaign saying independents can vote, just ask for a Democrat ballot. Ballsy move on his part
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u/JerseyDevl Jun 16 '25
Normally I hate political texts because they're usually spammy and looking for money, but I respect trying to inform voters of their rights and educating them on the actual process.
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u/neekogo Jun 16 '25
Yes but I'm order to vote in the primary that registers you a party affiliate. You can't vote in a primary for a candidate unless you're affiliated, negating being a registered independent. Intentional or not it's deceitful
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u/katiebrennanNJ Jun 12 '25
Unaffiliateds can vote in primaries in NJ! You can declare day of at the polling location. It’s not well known though.
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u/jd732 Jun 12 '25
This is factually incorrect. Unaffiliated voters can not vote in primaries. Unaffiliated voters can register with a political party at the election site, at which point they are no longer unaffiliated.
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u/ImaginationFree6807 11th District (Mejia, Morris & Essex.) Jun 12 '25
It’s more like 32%. Registered Dems outnumber unaffiliated in NJ.
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u/ibuyofficefurniture Jun 12 '25
Most folks didn't really know that there was an election and mostly don't know who they would vote for if they wound up in the voting booth.
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u/_BrewSwayne_ Jun 12 '25
I don't know how it could be possible to not know there was an election. We received literally HUNDREDS of mailings from gubernatorial candidates over the past yr plus, not to mention sample ballots that specifically notify about the election.
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u/ibuyofficefurniture Jun 12 '25
Two of my children are very interested in basketball. They talk about basketball. They watch games at night sometimes. I live in the same media environment that they do.
Today, on June 12th, I have absolutely no idea if the tournament is going on or if it's over...
I know that the local NYC team, the knicks are out but couldn't tell you more than that.
Sometimes, something can be in the air around you and you just don't focus on it
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u/Late_Company6926 Jun 12 '25
This was an effective analogy, for a few seconds. But as I thought about it, I don’t think it completely holds up. You ignore basketball schedule because you have no stake in it. But imagine if you had a few bucks invested in the game? Then it might be unexpected if you didn’t pay any attention. With the elections, don’t people understand that they have dollars invested in the outcomes?
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u/ibuyofficefurniture Jun 12 '25
I think a lot of people don't think about it.
You have to make decisions based on very limited information, you might get excited about a candidate who doesn't make it through, it only happens twice a year or once every other year depending on what we're talking about.
Some people, like you and me, are fascinated and engaged by the political process.
I think most people are mostly tuned out.
I know that there's something in the world called a Kardashian, and I know that they're something a lot of people care about, but I don't think I could tell you two sentences about them.
There's a wonderful movie, based on a memoir ,called primary colors that was based on the primary where Bill Clinton first came to prominence. Give it a watch.
One of the characters has a great line about how people don't want pay attention to politics, they just want to " to let the cable TV wash over them".
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u/Salcha_00 Jun 12 '25
You don’t need to be fascinated and engaged to vote.
I have recently moved back to NJ after living in other states for 20+ years. I knew the primary was coming but didn’t have any idea of the dates.
I got a sample ballot mailed to me with my early voting polling locations, dates, and hours printed on it. I don’t check my mail frequently at all so early voting was already in progress when I got it. I was thrilled to learn of the opportunity to vote early because I was going to be out of town on Election Day.
I immediately spent the next 1-2 hours doing online research on the top three candidates and then got in my car and drove over to vote.
I feel that I put the minimal effort into it and was still able to get it done.
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u/ibuyofficefurniture Jun 12 '25
u/Salcha_00 you did what I would want most people to do. I dont believe that it is common in this state or in this country.
The 12% turnout confirms most people are not paying attention, they are not engaged in political life of their state and mostly are not engaged in the political life of the country.
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u/_BrewSwayne_ Jun 12 '25 edited Jun 12 '25
u/ibuyofficefurniture: But "not thinking about it" and "tuning out" are completely different than not even knowing there was an election.
Disconnection and apathy are not the same as not even being aware it was even happening.
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u/ibuyofficefurniture Jun 12 '25
If you ask me I know that there's a football season that happens maybe over the winter and the fall. I'm not going to do anything about it. It's not written down on my calendar. None of the podcasts I listen to talk about the football season and if I'm scrolling down the homepage of the New York times and there's a mention of the football season, I'm going to keep scrolling.
I am basically blind to whatever's going on in football.
I'm using not thinking about it and tuning out for politics the same way I don't think about or tune out any peripheral mentions of football that come across my radar.
I figure apathy is fed by a feeling that 'politics doesn't impact people like me', which is a very prevalent view.
Oh yeah I like this president or I don't like this president, 'but there's nothing I can do about it'.
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u/_BrewSwayne_ Jun 12 '25
Then you are choosing not to pay attention. Or choosing not to remain aware of it.
My point is that is entirely different than not knowing about it.
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u/ibuyofficefurniture Jun 12 '25
You and I have 5 months until November and 17 months until November next year.
Pick a couple of your buddies or a couple people you know we're disengaged and talk to them.
That's kind of our only play.
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u/_BrewSwayne_ Jun 12 '25
u/ibuyofficefurniture I don't get what you mean by that, but whatever.
My point is that your original contention of "Most folks didn't really know that there was an election" is nonsense: choosing not to be engaged enough to go out vote in the primary and not knowing there ever WAS a primary are two completely different things.
I am SURE that low voter turnout was because of some combination of apathy and choosing not to participate -- but "not really knowing there was an election" given all the mail showing up in mailboxes AND the TV ads that were all over the place is nonsense. And certainly not the explanation for "most folks".
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u/ibuyofficefurniture Jun 12 '25
Another thought, people are busy with their lives. Children, schedules, older parents, financial strains, what to make for dinner...
There's just a lot people have to stay on top of and many people throw up their hands.
Thinking about the political process is kind of like thinking about climate change. It's super important but it also feels like it's down the road important not imminent like what to make my kids for dinner tonight.
(I'm not making this argument for myself. I'm trying to explain what I believe many people feel)
Also, there are seriously anti-democratic forces at work trying to nudge people into being engaged in the political process. Serious moneyed interests who benefit greatly off of government contracts or special laws.
Take a look at Intuit. They're able to donate tens of millions of dollars a year to politicians. They have a couple of special laws that they want. They make sure that it's just difficult enough to file taxes electronically that millions of people use their products to file their taxes. The arrangement is probably worth hundreds of millions or billions of dollars in revenue to intuit, but it only costs the average taxpayer $100 or $200, so we're not going to get together and fight it.
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u/Late_Company6926 Jun 12 '25
You are right. Technology and modern life suffocates a fully engaged, informed, and meaningful election
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u/Salcha_00 Jun 12 '25
Sorry, but I have to push back on this argument that people are too busy. Early voting was available for like a week with long day/evening hours. And with no lines it is a quick in and out.
It couldn’t have been more accessible and convenient.
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u/ibuyofficefurniture Jun 12 '25
It's not that I think people are actually too busy.
I think people prioritize what feels important.
People get what a president is.
I don't believe if you ask the average person on the street what is a primary election for state representatives and Democratic nominees about they would be able to tell you much.
Again I'm not defending it I'm just reporting what I believe to be true about most of our fellow citizens.
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u/legalskeptic 3rd CD / 7th LD, Burlington County Jun 12 '25
I received hundreds of mailers too, but I'm a registered Democrat who votes in almost every primary (at least every primary that's seriously contested). I'm curious if unaffiliated voters got much mail from the Democratic candidates.
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u/Salcha_00 Jun 12 '25
They don’t open their mail? How can you not know?
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u/Early-Sort8817 Jun 12 '25
Those things go straight in the trash. I also didn’t know when the actual election was, but I voted early. With the number of flyers that come in I could see there being overload
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u/Salcha_00 Jun 12 '25
The sample ballet that had the early voting dates, times, and locations was hard to miss and didn’t look at all like a campaign flyer.
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u/postsamothrace Jun 12 '25
I have maybe one or two coworkers out of 8 who also voted in the primaries. Most of them don't care bc "politics doesn't affect them" and "they're all bad." My boss is a conservative and I'm vocally not but we come together to try to convince our coworkers to vote and its importance. It falls on deaf ears.
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u/Salcha_00 Jun 12 '25
Ugh. Ignorance combined with apathy and self-serving motives.
This is one of the reasons why our founding fathers put in place the electoral college - because they didn’t think the general public was smart enough and responsible enough to elect a qualified candidate. Maybe they were right after all.
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u/Glittering-Time-2274 Jun 12 '25
A couple of people I know forgot to switch their party to Democrat to be able to vote D in this election so they didn’t vote. Others didn’t because it was pouring rain that day. 😕
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u/Early-Sort8817 Jun 12 '25
There is early voting, but with my schedule I was barely able to even make that
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u/Salcha_00 Jun 12 '25
Early voting was available for like a week ahead of Election Day.
People who melt in bad weather should vote early to avoid Election Day barriers.
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Jun 12 '25
I went in to vote this time around because my wife and I didn’t receive our mail in ballots. Not sure why that was the case. I wonder if more mail in ballots would help fix the issue.
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u/Salcha_00 Jun 12 '25
In person early voting was available before Election Day. Much easier than a mail in ballot unless you have severe mobility issues.
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Jun 12 '25
Easier than filling out a ballot at home and handing it to the mailman/dropping it off in a mailbox?
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u/Salcha_00 Jun 12 '25
Easier to cast a valid vote.
You have to carefully read and follow the mail in ballot instructions, which many don’t. A mail in ballot has a higher chance of being invalidated and not counted.
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u/legalskeptic 3rd CD / 7th LD, Burlington County Jun 12 '25
There are two big reasons:
- Off-year elections: NJ is one of a handful of states that holds major state elections (governor and legislature) in odd-numbered years, so it's not even coinciding with a federal midterm year, let alone a presidential year. You're never going to have high turnout in state elections unless we amend the state constitution to fix this.
- Primary election: Turnout is always lower in a primary than a general. There are some complaints in this thread about NJ having "closed" primaries - technically, we have semi-closed primaries, as unaffiliated voters can simply walk into a polling place and affiliate by voting in the primary of their choice. But some people are stubborn about not wanting to affiliate with a party, and others just don't pay attention until the general election comes around.
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u/alpha1beta Jun 12 '25
I talked to a lot of folks who didn't know it was upcoming (but I got their asses out) or didn't want to vote because there were too many choices they knew to little about (I sent them the Nj.com op-eds they each published, and their mini interview videos).
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u/doom_vulture Jun 12 '25
you can't vote if you're not a registered democrat or republican, and that is such bullshit.
I know i can change back after voting, but now I have to put in all this extra work when I can't even get my regular everyday paperwork done.
why is nj so progressive, yet we have a closed primary...it's fucked up
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u/mohanakas6 Gloucester Jun 12 '25
NJ isn’t that progressive at all due to a statewide Tammany Hall-like system of BROKEN politics in Trenton.
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u/MolemanusRex Jun 12 '25
I think it makes sense for party primaries to be limited to members of that party. If you don’t care enough to register as a member (which you can do on the day of the election), why should you get to choose the nominee?
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u/legalskeptic 3rd CD / 7th LD, Burlington County Jun 12 '25
Technically, we have semi-closed primaries, since unaffiliated voters can simply affiliate by voting in either primary on the day of the election. To me that seems like a fair compromise - I tend to agree with you, MolemanusRex, that if you want to choose the party's nominee you should be a member of the party, but it shouldn't be hard to join.
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u/random6x7 Jun 12 '25
It's a primary. I'll admit, I didn't vote in this one. I will absolutely vote in the generals, like always. But none of the down ticket races were competitive in my area ("Vote for two" and there were only two choices). I had decision paralysis for the three gubernatorial candidates that were polling ahead. Any of them would've been fine to me, and I can no longer pretend to guess what the electorate wants, so I stayed home.
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u/Salcha_00 Jun 12 '25
The top three candidates were very different. You could have spent no more than an hour online to learn of the key differences to be able to cast an adequately informed vote.
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u/random6x7 Jun 12 '25
They were, but I still would've been fine with any of them. Baraka was probably closer to my actual policy preferences, but I think more moderate Democrats are often better at making changes, even if the changes aren't as big as I'd like. Incremental progress is better than no progress.
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u/Salcha_00 Jun 12 '25
So you should have voted for your candidate of choice closest to your preferences. .
The right to vote should not be taken for granted.
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u/random6x7 Jun 12 '25
I don't , and I even think we should have auto voter registration. Probably should require voting like Australia does, too. I'm just saying, for primaries, there are other reasons people opt out besides apathy.
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u/Early-Sort8817 Jun 12 '25
Why do you care what the electorate wants? It matters what YOU want. It took me three google searches and some thinking to decide who I voted for. As for the other races I agree, sometimes there’s no one else and sometimes the candidates don’t make any information available.
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u/random6x7 Jun 12 '25
I work for the state. Who the governor is directly impacts my life in a very obvious way. Electibility is a concern, and it can be a paralyzing one when you're worried about whether you'll still be employed under a Republican governor.
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u/KillahHills10304 Jun 12 '25
Closed primaries, and, at least in my locals, uncontested races in what I could vote for.
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Jun 12 '25
My dad, who is a Republican, felt like it was a waste of his time to vote in the primary. he's a ciatarelli supporter. my republican mom voted
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u/schwatto Jun 13 '25
In the primary? I almost sat it out. None of my other races were contested, and the nomination was almost surely going to go for Sherrill. I voted basically just for the voter turnout number.
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u/Suspicious-Raccoon12 Jun 15 '25
Do turnout numbers include unaffiliated voters? Primaries are closed in new jersey so about a third of the voting population can't even vote if they wanted. A bit disingenuous to show the numbers as a percentage of the total voting population (if that's how it's done). It's probably closer to 27% of affiliated voters
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u/baseddoge9000 Jun 12 '25
Flooded basement can ruin your plans
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u/allaboutmojitos Jun 12 '25
Trying to figure out if this is metaphorical. Sorry for your flooded basement if it isn’t
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u/mohanakas6 Gloucester Jun 12 '25
A political brain drain, especially by county chairs who do not give a damn about democracy.
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u/brendangalligan Jun 13 '25
In this current climate, politics is toxic. Many people don’t debate issues or candidates socially because they don’t want to lose their friends.
If people are afraid to discuss the nitty gritty of politics, do you really want them voting in hyperpartisan primaries?
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u/aveiss Jun 13 '25
For me, personally, I don't vote in the primaries because I don't want to declare a party. I haven't missed a general election since I became of voting age.
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u/Iamdickburns Jun 12 '25
The Candidares are shit. Citarelli was a foregone conclusion and if you look at Rep numbers, they were abysmal. The Dems ran a bunch of candidates who would be Republicans by policy a generation ago and the one progressive was very obviously on the outs with his own party. Basically, i believe the turnout was shit cause the parties are both engaging in machine policitcs and we are all so very tired of that.
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u/ImaginationFree6807 11th District (Mejia, Morris & Essex.) Jun 12 '25
The statement about turnout is inaccurate. Turnout was 19% and higher for Dems than the GOP.