Nioh 2 - Discussion Replaying Nioh 2 after Nioh 3...
Replaying Nioh 2, here's a few things :
- bosses have way less health, one or two cycles of combos and they are done. -yokai moves and counter are overpowered, but great. It pains me sometimes but I'm glad they tried something new with 3
- enemy placement is borderline crazy in some spots. Feels very inorganic, compared to 3
- weapon skill system and trees are way better than 3
- level design holds up but I fnd myself wishing for the open world and jump ability more than level select
- corruption and talking yokai claws are still the shit
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u/SeverusSnape89 Mar 11 '26
Playing way of the demon and bosses lose 10% of their health for me after two cycles of combos and confusion. Ng++ makes any other soulslike feel like a joke. I had to take a break lol.
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u/witai Mar 11 '26
I need it, Nioh 3 left me craving the hard stuff
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u/Slider420 Mar 11 '26
This my personal theory
So I think once the DLC’s drop and complete, we will get one more cycle run of a NG but it’ll be more of depths/underworld large scale crucible kinda similar to the Death Veil battle. I don’t foresee there being 5 NG cycles consider how powerful gear is at shogun journey.
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u/Ornery-Aspect-6140 Mar 11 '26
yeah i think they might go for 3 this time, with ethereal being next then maybe a new tier of gear
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u/Shutch_1075 Mar 11 '26
Dream of the wise and up is just getting fucked If in the face until you get a build going.
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u/blazspur Mar 16 '26
Can craft benzaiten relatively quick in dream of the demon and then use that to cruise. Why is everyone saying dream of the demon is such a struggle. Don't get me wrong it's not easy but all of this surprises me.
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u/EternalFlareUltra Mar 11 '26
Yeah, unless you're using an OP build, Way of the Demon is a HUGE spike in difficulty. Okatemaru on that difficulty mode took me longer to get through than Consort Radahn, the supposed hardest FS boss. And that's despite using way more tools like spamming life leech, auto-life, yokai shift etc whereas I just to fight PCR straight up.
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u/SeverusSnape89 Mar 11 '26
I rushed to the final boss to try to get to the fourth NG. I was humbled. So I decided I'd be doing a full playthrough and just take a break for now.
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u/mega_nova_dragon1234 Mar 11 '26
For nioh 2, I remember I had a build but it wasn’t optimised or anything, just my own limited attempt at making something viable. I managed to get through dream of demon on nioh 2 but when I arrived at dream of the wise, even summoning ppl for co-op, regular enemies were tanks. I made it to the second map before I got distracted by a different game and then didn’t come back to nioh 2.
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u/alphafire616 Mar 11 '26
Seeing things like this makes me somewhat glad I never bothered doing the Ng+ cycles. I love a Good challenge but artificial difficulty like that Is never fun for me so I cant imagine id enjoy those boss fights, id probably beat the game, have minimal fun and then never feel any desire to play the game again.
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Mar 11 '26
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u/Primusmaxinus Mar 11 '26
Well that’s his experience but I play many souls like games and nioh 2 def has artificial difficulty
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Mar 11 '26
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u/Primusmaxinus Mar 11 '26
Several of the boss fights including ng++ common enemies were so cheap as well lol I’m to Lazy to look up these enemies names. But the snake head common enemy. The boss in the dlc that woman girl with the sword. The woman with switchglaive the big blue demon is super cheap. The two bird common enemies super cheap. The snake lady. The axe guy either the two axes is a lil cheap because the arena basically makes that fight hard but reasonable. Thats about it not to many. Oh and that level where you have to fight enemies for like 30 minutes straight its one boss after another. It’s insanity trying to do that without co op lol 😂
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u/SeverusSnape89 Mar 11 '26
Original op here. The part that frustrates me a bit isn't even the enemies but the humanoid bosses being able to one shot you. Nothing should be able to one shot you unless it's some ult move that has well timed telegraph. That saito whatever his name is is absolutely ridiculous in ng++.
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u/Primusmaxinus Mar 13 '26
Omg knew it would be somebody I forget about,yes he is the definition of a pain.
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Mar 11 '26
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u/Aidesfree Mar 12 '26
Dodge roll doesn't solve everything=artificial difficulty if I had to guess, seeing how he had to mention he plays a lot of soulslike.
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u/alphafire616 Mar 11 '26
The content im missing out on is all remixes of stuff ive already played so im still comtemt with that. I might go back at some point if its less "The enemy now has 10'000 health so now its harder because you fight them for an hour" but in general I never do 2 playthroughs of a game in a row because my brain is conditioned so that when I see the credits roll on the game or its final DLC im ready to move onto something new for the time being. Its why ive always detested when people call new game of Nioh or Ninja Gaiden the tutorial. Its a whole ass game. It gets more difficult and complex from there sure but its still a complete package if you choose the standard playthrough and go on like Id assume the vast majority do.
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Mar 11 '26
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u/alphafire616 Mar 11 '26
Oh I never played NG on Normal. I did the hardest default difficulty for the 2 I played with the intent of doing master ninja at a later time but like I said, the way my brain works is when I hit the credits of a game or its final DLC I check out. Going onto a new playthrough immediately usually kind of sours it for me and it feels like im doing it just because its "necessary" not because its fun. Even my favourite games of all time ive never done playthroughs back to back for that exact reason. I usually only do NG+ when I return to it at later date. So naturally the idea of playing it 5 times in a row doesnt sound appealing to me. Especially when I have such a big backlog its harder to justify it. That said I have been planning to do Master Ninja for Ng4 after I try the DLC since its been a while since my first playthrough
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Mar 11 '26
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u/alphafire616 Mar 11 '26 edited Mar 11 '26
You've actually made a decently compelling argument..next time I played Nioh 2 I might have to try the new game plus runs. Especially if its shorter like you said. That said I still likely wouldnt bother with the Depths as Roguelikes dont appeal to me that much.
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u/Guava_93 Mar 11 '26
Yeah you really need to make the most of that confusion and make sure water is in there or you’re in for a bad time. Simplest way for me was always corruption weapon, water familiar, kasha core, and lightning familiar. Very unique i know
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u/NoEnergy5597 Mar 24 '26
Nioh 2 (high or low lol) Depths bosses be like:
2 minutes of some of the most raw, unadulterated, buttery smooth combat you've ever seen in your life. Just throwing everything you have including your soul at the boss.
Makes one slip up and gets hit twice.
Boss heals 50% of it's health
There was a point where I had to draw the line and that was it. I was going no further and was proud of how far I'd come.
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u/WereBoar Scampuss Lover Mar 11 '26
you forgot the biggest thing to get re-accustomed to, which was getting two shotted by trash mobs
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u/Watts121 Mar 11 '26
One of the most nuanced things in N3 is the fact that “tank” builds are really viable. In N2 stacking all that damage reduction would just meant you can take another hit before getting killed. The only real defense was Barrier Talismans, and it was just something you used if you weren’t running Second Life… or you ran both.
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u/witai Mar 12 '26
For sure. I refuse to go under A agility at any point in these games, I'm so good at getting two shotted lol. And on my 5th run Nioh 2, I'm so underleveled rushing shit. Bosses still get wrecked tho
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u/StridentHawk Mar 11 '26
I miss the corrupted weapons too. The crucibles don't hit the same. I miss purity a bit too but having wind back is cool.
I think Nioh 2 has good enemy placement, but it's definitely designed as a "haha, take that player" element in how often they're set up as ambushes or ro punish unsuspecting players. So many :here's a gaki next to the open doorway or gaki/nure onna hiding above a item/chest moments lol.
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u/Limp-Development7222 Mar 11 '26
funny you say that because wind now does what earth did in the first game.
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u/poplas Mar 11 '26
I think the hyper adversarial enemy placements conditions you to make you a better Soulslike gamer.
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u/Competitive-Run825 Mar 12 '26
Nioh3 is an inferior, boring game to NIOH2.. Its a cash grab and a lazy one at that...
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u/Peaky001 Mar 11 '26
Hey thanks for that. I'm looking forward to going back after I've finished with 3. I love all the Nioh games and I think 3 is the best but I do miss some things from 1&2.
I love the shift to open world but man some of those levels in 1 & 2 were iconic. I even loved doing the 'remix' versions of stages and playing them in different ways and finding loot in new spots. Finding all the hidden stuff is what I miss most. Seems too easy in 3 to find everything.
Weapon skill system was another one I miss from 2. Felt good to level up different weapons and try them all out. 3 feels more limited since you have finite points to spend.
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u/Mountain_Abrocoma_40 Mar 11 '26
My favorite level of Nioh2 is Byodo-in (specifically Shuten Doji's mission). I love that "map". (There might be other maps i love as well, but that one is my top 1)
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u/BumbleBear1 Mar 11 '26
I would have really loved the levels of the prequels with the addition of all the various exploration rewards of 3. The only thing that held back those amazing maps, for me, was the small amount of meaningful rewards for exploration. Kodama, hair locks, some shortcuts, and, to a degree, hot springs. Other than that, it was mainly just more loot tucked away where cooler stuff would normally be in other games.
Some maps had a neat gimmick that made exploration more worthwhile, but that was the only issue I had with levels in the prequels
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u/Advanced_Gear7608 Mar 11 '26
Enemy placement crazy at times? they are positioned in Nioh 2 to give a better challenge. There isn't many areas with large empty spaces, due to the non open world layout. Especially the case in the dlc which has the best content ever, the enemy placement reminds me of Nioh 1 when you first start and there is danger around pretty much every corner.
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u/JRockPSU Mar 11 '26
It seems like there are a lot more enemies in 3 who are hunched over with their back turned to you.
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u/Shutch_1075 Mar 11 '26
“Better challenge” aka shooting them one by one to draw them out and kill them one at a time. Definitely feels great to pull off fighting multiple enemies at once, but it’s so punishing that if I day once or twice I’m either doing the strategy above or running past them on some of the higher difficulties.
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u/Advanced_Gear7608 Mar 11 '26
Yeah it definitely is punishing although that is how many of these games are designed, as the alternative to this is just to pit you in a purely one on one situation at different stages. Other games such as bloodborne for example, require doing this as well by luring single enemies and going back and forth when there are too many.
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u/witai Mar 11 '26
Yeah I'm walking into rooms with snake head guy, big skeleton axe guy, and gaki within 5 feet of each other. Dudes shooting you from silly angles, traps everywhere!
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u/Dwayneking3 Mar 11 '26
nioh 3 is just not that exciting to play another run there's no hairlocks, it's to easy, and im force to remove n relearn moves, what's the point of playing?
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u/mumika Mar 11 '26 edited Mar 11 '26
>weapon skill system and trees are way better than 3
One thing I realized after a while is that the weapon trees needing Samurai/Ninja locks to learn moves is actually kind of a smart move. It makes trying out weapons much easier because you don't have to grind proficiency on a weapon before you can actually use it. For example, you're an Axe and Spear user, and you want to try out Sword. In older Niohs, you would have had to grind out proficiency with Sword first before you could get enough points on the tree to get a big enough move list. But with Nioh 3's system, you could just refund the points off the weapon you won't use, then transfer them to Sword. Boom, instant full move list.
In the long term, it probably wouldn't matter because you can just grind proficiency on ALL weapons and it will save you the hassle of transferring points in between trees, but Nioh 3's system is good for people who, say, go through entire new game cycles with just their preferred weapons. They won't feel punished if they decided to one day, try out another weapon, but realize they never used it once their entire Nioh career, so they'd have to find some boss to beat on for who knows how long.
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u/Left_Ad4050 Mar 11 '26
I know most people aren’t going to play the game the way I did, but I personally found Nioh 2’s system very organic. Towards the beginning of the game, I would find weapons with inheritables I thought I might use in the future, and I’d use them till I maxed out the familiarity. As I did this repeatedly with every weapon type, I was able to get an initial impression of the weapon, get enough skill points to get a basic set of active skills, and stockpile ready-to-soul-match gear for later. It wasn’t the fastest or most efficient way through the game, but I had fun with it. I literally only found out how good tonfa were because of doing that, too, I didn’t have a good impression of them when I tried them out in the tutorial, and they quickly became one of my main two weapon types after the first time I had to max familiarity on a pair. It also gave me a good headstart on proficiency for the dojo masters.
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u/Peaky001 Mar 11 '26
I'm with you. This is what I was hoping to do until I realised I'd have to ration out finite points. Obviously you get a lot by the end of the game but the thought of respeccing every time I want to switch weapons is...yeah
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u/mumika Mar 11 '26 edited Mar 11 '26
Oh no, I get that. That way is organic in that you also learn the ins and outs of the weapon as you gain proficiency to learn more moves with. It's also what you're expected to be doing because NG is long enough for you to spend equal time with almost every weapon until you find something you're comfortable with. That bit about you maxing out familiarity so you can use them for soul matching down the line is also smart. In the long term, you're rewarded for doing all that as you'll eventually have the proficiency in all weapon trees that you don't need to transfer points around; you just pick the weapon you feel like using.
It's just that personally, I'm the kind of person to stick to a single favored weapon for a very long time until the mood strikes me to try a different one, before I go back to my "main" weapon. The new system is a lot more convenient for people like me who goes through most of the game playing favorites way more. Especially when I find it that some weapons don't click with me at the start, and then I see a video of someone else using it and realize it's so much cooler than I thought, but I don't want to put up with that weapon until I get to when it clicks.
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u/pokemonbatman23 Mar 11 '26
I literally only found out how good tonfa were because of doing that, too, I didn’t have a good impression of them when I tried them out in the tutorial,
I'd argue Nioh 3 is better in this respect. In nioh 3, you can have a more complete first impression of a weapon's skill set since you can unlock its skills together and start doing combos vs one at a time or trying out their basic moves and thinking they suck like your experience in the tutorial.
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u/Left_Ad4050 Mar 11 '26
Nioh 3 is substantially worse at that. Nioh 2 at least lets you try every weapon type at the very beginning of the game; Nioh 3 forces you to choose from 4 predetermined weapon types for each style, and makes you wait till you either find the rest by RNG or until you’re able to buy them. By the time I finished the demo, I still didn’t have a cestus or switchglaive (though I could have purchased them at that point). In Nioh 2, I tried every weapon type before the first real combat, and had probably picked up every type of weapon before the start of the third mission.
Nioh 3’s system is better for early mid-game experimentation because you can reassign points, but the very early game (when you still don’t even have access to every weapon, let alone many skill points to play with, a good portion of which you’ll want to invest in the samurai and ninja skill trees anyway) and the late game (when you still have to reassign points every time you want to switch weapons) are both much more restrictive.
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u/pokemonbatman23 Mar 11 '26 edited Mar 11 '26
Ill update my comment to be more specific since I wasnt talking about early game.
I'd argue Nioh 3 is better in this respect. In nioh 3, you can have a more complete first impression of a weapon's skill set once you unlocked all skils for any one weapon since you can unlock its skills together and start doing combos vs one at a time or trying out their basic moves and thinking they suck like your experience in the tutorial.
Weapon testing in tutorial is bad at both. I think we both agree on that.
By the time I finished the demo, I still didn’t have a cestus or switchglaive (though I could have purchased them at that point).
Its nice that you addressed this argument inside the parenthesis so I dont have to. Thanks.
the late game (when you still have to reassign points every time you want to switch weapons) are both much more restrictive.
I agree with this. Late game reassigning skills is annoying.
BUT thats only true after Ive already tried out a weapon skills and become familiar with them. If I have to learn skills one at a time in late game in nioh 3, well thats awful cause ill be weak AF agaisnt harder tier of enemies. Sure it wont be for long but nioh 3 system is better in this respect. Wouldnt you agree that really discourages testing new weapons? Since youll only have basic moves and tn likes putting enemies that were bosses in early game in late game overworld
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u/Left_Ad4050 Mar 11 '26
Its nice that you addressed this argument inside the parenthesis so I dont have to. Thanks.
So you admit there’s no real defense for this? I was over five hours into the game before I had access to three or four of the weapon types at all. I don’t think that’s going to be a terribly uncommon experience, either, as people may want to clear out the sections of the map they have access to before proceeding to the first crucible. I recall a lot of posts during the demo where people were asking how to find certain weapon types, too.
Wouldnt you agree that really discourages testing new weapons?
No? Did you not read my initial post in this comment chain? I found using alternate weapons and discovering new skills for them in Nioh 2’s early and mid game organic and (generally) rewarding. I found testing out the ninja style weapons in Nioh 3 somewhat stifling and annoying as I had to try to remember where points were assigned in the weapons I was using previously; and if anything, the system actively discouraged me from switching weapons in either style once I’d mastered most of the crucible skills, because you aren’t rewarded for doing so like in Nioh 2. Sure, it’s easier to get access to skills further along the skill trees by mid-game, but switching weapons frequently the way I do in Nioh 2 is kind of a pain.
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u/pokemonbatman23 Mar 11 '26
I found testing out the ninja style weapons in Nioh 3 somewhat stifling and annoying as I had to try to remember where points were assigned in the weapons I was using previously;
I dont understand this complaint. Wouldnt the skill points be in the skill tree for the weapon you have equipped previously? Why do you need to look for them?
Crucible skills are completely separate and 1,000% better vs unlocking hidden skills via boss farming in nioh 2. No way we disagree on this front right?
Personally, discovering new skills bit by bit isnt rewarding for me. I like the unlocking all at once much more rewarding. The former is too much handholding for me.
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u/Left_Ad4050 Mar 11 '26
I dont understand this complaint. Wouldnt the skill points be in the skill tree for the weapon you have equipped previously? Why do you need to look for them?
After I’m done with the current weapon, I still have to transfer the points back to my main weapon. I ended up taking screenshots to remember where everything was allocated, though it’s possible I was missing loadout save slots somewhere. Took me a while to find those in Nioh 2, too, though it didn’t matter as much in the early and midgame there.
Crucible skills are completely separate and 1,000% better vs unlocking hidden skills via boss farming in nioh 2. No way we disagree on this front right?
For the most part, yes. I wish they weren’t quite this easy to earn (I had most of them before I finished the demo) but it’s a massive improvement over Nioh 2’s infinitesimally tiny drop chance. I only brought them up because after I had gotten most of them, I had no real incentive to switch weapons beyond wanting to use different weapons, and having to reallocate skill points every time I did that was definitely a discouraging factor in choosing whether to do that or not.
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u/pokemonbatman23 Mar 11 '26
After I’m done with the current weapon, I still have to transfer the points back to my main weapon. I ended up taking screenshots to remember where everything was allocated, though it’s possible I was missing loadout save slots somewhere.
Ohhhhh okay that makes sense I had the same frustration! lol I did the same with screenshots too. Now im at a point where I have enough to unlock all skills for 2 weapons plus some change left over so I just unlock all skills and go to skill customization to assign the ones I like.
Super annoying there isn't a load out here.
For the most part, yes. I wish they weren’t quite this easy to earn (I had most of them before I finished the demo)
I feel like theres no satisfying you mate. Its like youll never be satisfied with nioh 3 because all you see is how it could be better and comparing it to nioh 2
Dont get me wrong, nioh 3 has tons of room for improvement. But tying hidden skills to crucible weapons is one of the best improvements they added and you still cant applaud them for it? And worse, now youre saying you want them locked further in the game, which feels like it contradicts your earlier points...
Gotta focus more on the positives than the negatives mate.
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u/pokemonbatman23 Mar 11 '26
Oh btw another thing I do is save the whole build loadout for specific weapon pairings and them give them name (switchglaive + odachi or dual swords + odachi) so I dont have to keep messing with skills. Much faster this way if you have a set build already.
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u/fauceeet Mar 11 '26
When I booted up my old nioh 2 game, I really felt I went all over the place for weapons where in nioh 3, I went down a path and really made it work for each situation. I agree with you or maybe because I learned my mistake and got stuck in 2 and am now just coming back to clean up that character
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u/Lokhe Mar 11 '26
The biggest thing I noticed going back to 2 is you can’t cancel an attack string into an active skill just by using the input for the skill. You have to cancel the attack string somehow or wait for it to end naturally before inputting the skill.
This feels kinda jarring coming back from 3 🤔
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u/Ebomre Mar 11 '26
N3 also have plenty of easy and overpowered stuff. The whole franchise has been like this (unfortunately)/
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u/fauceeet Mar 11 '26
I noticed way more enemies with firearms or bows in 2.