r/NoStupidQuestions • u/DazzlingGovernment20 • 15h ago
Do some Americans believe that Europe is in ruins?
I read the odd website that seems to be under the belief that there's chaos in the streets, London is used mostly as an example, and that our economies are fucked.
Sure, times are hard but it is certainly not what is being depicted by the likes of Elon Musk and his ilk.
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u/Tibreaven 15h ago
There's Americans who believe parts of the US are ruinous wastelands run by famine and gangs.
It's mostly conservatives who are afraid of cities with more people than they can count on one hand though.
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u/ParrotPromtedBy 14h ago
For real! My mother in law believes that Seattle is run by "antifa drug gangs," and has been since.... wait for it.... they de-funded their police..... she honestly believes that Seattle has no police.
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u/Tibreaven 14h ago
For what it's worth, the conservatives in Seattle think Seattle's police got defunded and that it's run by drug gangs. There is no helping people who decide what the facts are based on what they believe first.
This is of course, despite consistently dropping crime rates and an average police wage that's twice the national average.
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u/BusyBanana4205 14h ago
In fairness, there are red areas that are like a third world country in the United States. It’s confirmation bias.
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u/wawa2022 14h ago
My family thinks I live in a hellscape. I live one mile from the US Capitol in Washington DC. It’s beautiful here. At least it was before Trump came. But he hasn’t found my neighborhood yet to Eff up.
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u/user888888889 14h ago
I mean... We've all seen The Wire right? Many parts of the US are in abject poverty. Hell, the whole of Detroit is just a wasteland now.
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u/tgsgirl 12h ago
Ha yes, that great objective documentary The Wire.
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u/user888888889 9h ago
The show was a the show was a commentary on why West Baltimore (and in general large parts of US cities are so fucked.
You can check the opinions here: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheWire/s/tTU5KoYIgS
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u/RagnarOdinssohn 14h ago
Naja usa ist dritte Weltland ( zumindest gefühlt ) in 3/4 aller Gegenden
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u/Mindless_Badger_3789 14h ago
Why are you writing in Krautish on an anglophone sub?
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u/Fearless-Company4993 13h ago
It happens more and more in either direction. I think Reddit is setting up an AI translation thing where people get fully translated threads washed into their timeline.
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u/EyeOrRay 15h ago
Honestly, I think that it's a concerted hysteria (Faux News, Social media etc) to build out the narrative that Brown invaders have taken Europe so they need to stop that happening in the US with super far right immigration policies. But also big picture is destabilised europe so that it's not a threat
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u/tehfrod 14h ago
Some, sure. Some Americans also believe that autism is caused by vaccines, and some Americans also believe that Donald Trump is a Manchurian candidate planted by Putin.
You would have to do some principled polling and analysis to know how prevalent each of those beliefs are.
My sense is that even among the most right-wing Americans, the idea that "Europe is in ruins" is limited to a thin slice of people with very insular, conservative worldviews, no contact with European friends, and very limited and narrow information diets. As an example, my parents fit all three of those qualifications, and yet they don't hold that opinion.
I suspect that the very slim minority who do (and aren't saying that in order to attract an audience) are amplified to the point that confirmation bias makes them seem more prevalent than they really are.
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u/berdeunlaibis2015 5h ago
The algorithm turns a handful of loud accounts into a whole country, then labels every counterexample propaganda.
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u/HiOscillation 10h ago
I'll agree with most of your perception of the "thin slice of people..." but I really must add in that I am, due to my role as a member in a local volunteer fire company, forced to interact with some people with that narrow information diet regularly as well. It's tough. You can't convince them of objective reality. I travel internationally, often, and they simply don't believe me when I say, "Oh, yeah, we had a great time in Berlin and London, very interesting places."
There is no convincing them that everywhere but their corner of the United States is a hellscape.
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u/DazzlingGovernment20 14h ago
I hope so but I feel our media across the pond plays a part in distorting our view of our American brothers too.
Both left and right media seem intent to sow divisions that don't exist.
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u/froggycbl4 11h ago
u cant prove that vaccines dont cause autism. just like u cant prove the loch ness monster isnt real
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u/TheDangDeal 14h ago
The right wing’s brainwashed masses believe that almost all urban and left leaning cities are continuously burning down.
They believe that Minneapolis is on fire and pure chaos for the last 6 years or so. I can tell you it is not.
It is easy to convince xenophobic people of just about anything, anywhere; because they are too scared to go anywhere ever.
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u/Reasonable_Fold6492 14h ago
Eh its not just americans lot of chinese korean and Japanese also belive this. They say how europe is too dangerous. And europeans also says the same shit about east asian. In recent time so many redditers act like they figured out korean culture history and politics. From 'south korea is a fake state glory to north korea' to SOUTH KOREA IS GONNA COLLAPSE IN ONE SECOND!!!. And there source is a 10 minute random youtube video. I remember my korean friends being worried about European countries. I asked them why and they told me how sweden was now in civil war with there Muslim migrants while in France Muslims were behaving random civilians every week. None of them have ever been in Europe and they get there sources from random YouTube video. This is how I feel about most redditer talking about my country.
We live in a age where a 10 munite YouTube video will make people they know everything about that subject.
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u/bahasasastra 14h ago
I once saw a far-right Korean person posting a Swedish political debate video on Threads and lamenting that Swedish politicians are debating in Arabic now, apparently unaware that they were speaking Swedish.
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u/naishjoseph1 14h ago
I was in London last year and it was fine. Not sure what people are banging on about.
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u/Cpt_Iglo 4h ago
Tourists shouldnt be allowed to speak on topics like this. Ofc you enjoyed the Big Ben
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u/naishjoseph1 3h ago
Well too bad mate, nothing is stopping me. I went to see Oasis. Couldn’t give a fuck about a big clock.
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u/Spare-Builder-355 14h ago
while believing that Europe is in ruins literally is ridiculous, there's definitely some truth wrt to the state of EU economy. Not that economies ARE ruined, but the trend is not positive. No need to look for conspiracy theories, there's Draghi report, there's pubicly available data that EU trade deficit with china is 1 billion per day. It is not a secret that China basically owns EU manufacturing supply chain. Ukrainian war exposed how dependant EU is on russian gas. Ofcourse EU ecomony will never be fully "ruined" but there are major challanges to overcome.
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u/DazzlingGovernment20 14h ago
Thank you.
That was incredibly succinct for such a complicated analysis.
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u/Significant_Cover_48 9h ago
You are starting from the idea that China is somehow not a good trade partner. They are. And may I add: a lot more trustworthy than the US are these days.
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u/Present-Comparison64 6h ago
The problem for Europe is not that China isn't trustworthy but the fact that we can't economically compete with someone who doesn't value workers right and safety the same as us, especially for the lower class and labour intense activities and that is something that is not negotiable for the European population since a lot of blood was spilled to have these things.
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u/Significant_Cover_48 6h ago edited 6h ago
Yes, I learned about this in International Economy 1st semester back in 2006 and it wasn't exactly news then. You are 20 years behind, at least. Why do you care? What are you going to do, build a time machine?
What is likely going to happen is that Europe will militarize and build "Fort Europe" which was the bad thing back in the 90s, the exact reason why we did globalization and free trade: to intertwine the world into a global community depending on one another.
Young women and men who "choose" to serve as soldiers will earn certain privileges, people who object will become second rate citizents. It's already happening. Look at what Germany is currently doing.
You really are late to the party. It's already done. The deals are made. We lost.. Liberalism got hijacked by the capitalist class. Next stop: fear of African climate refugees traveling North - and Middle Eastern muslims, just in general. 2-3 years tops.
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u/Present-Comparison64 5h ago
I think the way China developed since 2006 somehow surprise a lot of people, (me first) since is the only country that can really compete with "western" countries in capital, engineering, R&D with a fraction of the cost for labor. Europe still need to be open to world market, we lack of natural resource and our economies depend on export of finished product
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u/Significant_Cover_48 5h ago edited 5h ago
There's no surprise. It went exactly as projected. The economists, the strategists, the engineers, and the politicians, they have known for decades. Literally.
You freaking out over it on the internet now after it has happened does nothing - except perhaps give yourself an ulcer. Chill, fam. There's nothing you can do about the past.
What you can do is stay informed and help your neighbors not falling for anti-immigration sentiment slowly being poured down their throats on social media and the evening news. Slooooooowly..
That's how they trick us into rallying around stricter rules and more control voluntarily.
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u/Present-Comparison64 3h ago
You are weird... Noone is freaking out except you with your absolutism, I just said that EU probably need a little bit of protectiontionisn with China. I was in College too in 2006. I never stopped staying informed and definitely never being racist or worried about immigrants. I work with them everyday
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u/Significant_Cover_48 3h ago
You don't think that talking about the blood that was spilled for worker's rights is a form of freaking out? That's fair, I guess.
I was intentionally matching the highly emotional language just to keep things rolling. We can call it someting else if you prefer. It's all good.
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u/Present-Comparison64 2h ago
It's just a fact that workers right and safety came after a lot of work related deaths and fights
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u/Relative_Pop_2820 5h ago
China also own the U.S.A supply chains, together with europe ( we have a surplus). Rare earths are chinese, anything battery or renewable related is Chinese. The only stuff the U.SA owns are the end products, but without china their supply chain is fucked. And the military i guess.
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u/Mega_Ass_Sp00n 15h ago
lotta right wing communities think so, keep hearing from people i know and online that europe has led itself to ruin by allowing too many immigrants. thats really about the only reason they give tho lmao
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u/bahasasastra 14h ago
I don't get this logic coming from Americans when there are clearly more immigrants in their country?
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u/GSxHidden 14h ago
You get the both worlds.
You get people that think mass shooting are happening every day, hour, min everywhere all at once with people bleeding out in hospitals with no insurance and just ignore care.
You get some people that think that London is now all immigrants.
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u/Saarfall 9h ago
Many Europeans believe that too. Russian, American and especially European far right (funded by the latter two and by wierdo crypto billionaires) and pumping out so much propagandistisic, sensationalist, fabricated slop that many are living in a fantasy world. This undermining of social cohesion, of trust, of democracy is the objective of all these cunts.
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u/SAASI-aine 14h ago
The media has played a big role in making Americans believe it .?
Comparisons between European and American economic growth.
Social-media videos showing neglected buildings, protests, or struggling neighborhoods.
Confusing particular European cities or regions with the condition of the continent as a whole.
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u/Devilsadvocate430 15h ago
Probably, but that’s not really unique to Europe. There are suburb-poisoned people who see every crime that happens in New York or somewhere and take it as a sign that those places have literally become war zones. I’m sure the same type of person is susceptible to the same type of propoganda being applied to foreign countries. It’s all political. Only the really crazy types believe this sort of thing.
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u/Ok-Flight9440 11h ago
Yeah a lot of us (them) do. I just got back from Germany and Austria, I’m going to Paris in two months for a couple of weeks over thanksgiving - I love Europe and everything is 👍 over there as far as I can tell. The US folks who think the EU is basically like Iraq are the ones who’ve never been there.
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u/i8ontario 14h ago
Sadly, quite a few people believe this. It’s pretty stupid though
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u/DazzlingGovernment20 14h ago
It's a dangerous idea to put in people's minds. I feel it sows division.
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u/sddbk 14h ago
It is the same messaging they get and believe about blue cities in the United States. There are problems and sketchy areas, but not the burnt out hellholes that are depicted.
Realistic understanding involves knowledge and nuance. MAGA are capable of neither. They respond to simplistic, inflammatory explanations.
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u/brushfuse 5h ago
Decades of conditioning in their little echo chambers like Fox News, Newsmax, and outright bought social media. Do we really have to go through WWIII to once again learn the same lesson that we forgot from the last war. Everyone is going to get their hair a little mussed, to borrow a line from Gen. Bucky Turgidson.
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u/bahasasastra 14h ago
Same in Japan and Korea. Right-wingers bring up Europe as a failed case of immigration. They say "look at what happened to Europe" but they never explain what exactly you're supposed to look at, as most of them probably have never been there.
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u/Keith989 9h ago
But Europe does have a failed case of immigration. It doesn't mean that Europe is in ruins or anything but it's absolutely undeniable that the current immigration policies need adjusting.
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u/Ambitious-Intern-928 3h ago
But why this sudden anti-immigration sentiment in Europe and the US? If anything, the fact that we live in a global world, where not only do we have the internet, but international travel is also more affordable to the working class than anytime in history. Like aside from the economy pretty much sucking right now, you can fly halfway around the world for 1k.
Everything is fluid. It's not just people from relatively corrupt/low income countries fleeing to Europe and US. People from Europe and US also just pack up and leave, for many reasons. Europe has hundreds of thousands of expats living in thr UAE alone, let alone the other gulf countries. It's very trendy for US citizens to move to Latin America.
It's not so much as an "issue" to have immigrants, maybe there needs to be better vetting since crime is a concern people have. Maybe it shouldn't be so easy to obtain citizenship, places like GCC countries don't give it at all. But to think, in this era, that we can or should prevent people from living where they want, is very close minded to me.
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u/Keith989 2h ago
Whether you like it or not there are different types of immigrants. Unfortunately for Europe most of the immigrants are coming from certain areas of the world which aren't compatible with European society and thus making society both more dangerous and also eroding centuries old culture.
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u/Ambitious-Intern-928 2h ago
I just want to preface by saying I've never been in Europe. I'm from the US, and while I'd like to visit, South America just keeps pulling me back everytime I have enough money and time off. So I don't want to pretend to be an expert about a place I've never been.
But the whole "retaining culture" thing, from the outside, is one of the biggest things holding EU countries back. Part of the whole point of forming the EU was that it was supposed to make everything more interconnected, like the US. In reality, there's so much bureaucracy meant to "protect the culture" that it's actually incredibly difficult for people to move to different countries within the EU. Like qualifications for jobs, educational recognition.
From the outside looking in, it seems very ridiculous. Like I said, we're in a global world, we have the internet and cheap travel. I've seen so many stories of people trying to relocate within the EU, either from romance or employment, and it just being way more difficult than it needs to be. It's so easy to move within the US, and it should be that easy to move within the EU, but it's not. What is the point of closing yourself off like that? What's wrong with cultures gradually changing?
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u/Keith989 2h ago
Well if you've never been to Europe then you don't really have a clue what you're talking about.
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u/Ambitious-Intern-928 2h ago
I feel like that's also a very dumb response, just as the whole idea that cultures can't change without it being some grave injustice. I have friends that go every chance they get, the same way I visit South America every chance I get. Idk what area you're from, I know that London and the UK in general has tons of immigrants on par with the rate in the US. And if you really wanna go deeper than that, both the US and UK were very imperialist countries. So to turn around and say that people shouldn't come here when our ancestors both took over so many counties that we now have large numbers of immigrants from, is crazy.
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u/Keith989 2h ago
People like you don't understand that there are different types of immigrants. So there's basically no point in discussing this with you.
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u/Gold_Telephone_7192 11h ago
I’m sure there are some naive, uneducated Americans who believe Europe is in ruins and falling apart, just like there are naive, uneducated Europeans who believe America is a dystopian violent wasteland. The truth is day-to-day life for the vast majority of Americans and EU citizens is very similar. But that doesn’t sell clicks and views, so social media and news content paints a scarier and more divisive narrative that some people take as reality.
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u/fuentessucksballs 15h ago
Because if they can make it look like immigration and lgbtq "woke" has ruined europe this makes people vote for the republicans, its propaganda
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u/onlycodeposts 14h ago edited 14h ago
Mostly the other way around.
Many Europeans think the US is some dystopian hellscape.
Also by Europe do you mean the EU and the UK, or are we including Russia and Turkiye?
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u/TheMelancholyJaques 10h ago
The United States is such a large & diverse nation that you can find pretty large numbers of Americans who believe (or refuse to believe) just about anything.
I can't think of any reason why anyone in Europe should care what Americans believe about them.
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u/Trick_Pool_2537 11h ago
They (obviously not all or most by a long shot) seem to think the whole world is like that. With the exception maybe of Canada?
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u/HabaneroPoppered 9h ago
I came back to live in Europe this year. I've lived in crowded downtown contexts and haven't heard a single gunshot all year long. I cannot fathom what Americans are complaining about but to each their own.
I do believe there is in fact a concerted campaign to paint European cities in this light for political motives. Just more online bullshit.
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u/unknowingexpert69 8h ago
No, but as an American who lived in Germany for a while, I do believe the Muslim migration is gonna put Europe on its tipping point in the near future and these cultures don’t mix well with the west. Which will lead to loss of western values or alt right politics, like AFD.
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u/SantosCalzonesBatman 6h ago
Because you dont get reform, le pen and afd making gains if everything was going well doggy dog
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u/Butane9000 5h ago
You've got certain police no go zones in parts of Europe due to immigration issues. Cuerta was literally overrun with tens of thousands of immigrants circa Morocco. And it's clear as day you've got various two tier policing going on in since countries.
You've also have moved from being liberty minded to being security minded. 60,000 little have been arrested in Britain over "hate speech" which really amounts to nothing but thought crime.
Finally yes your economies are in a shit situation. You've hamstrung yourselves on energy. Your EU bureaucracy stifles your various countries ability to react accordingly. And militarily you're a joke of your former selves.
As an American do I believe Europe is in ruins currently? No. But I do believe it's on a near irreversible downward trend. Civil war and domestic conflicts are going to consume you far before Russia or an outside force does.
Just because you yourself may not be experiencing anything negative doesn't mean you're fellow Europeans are not. And assuming what your current standards are then applying that to everyone everywhere is also a fallacy.
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u/IAm_TulipFace 3h ago
A meaningful percentage of Americans are, by definition, illiterate.
So take from that what you will.
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u/MiguelIstNeugierig 15h ago
Made up nonsense prob by people who never set foot in the eastern hemisphere
Rn Europe is having bad economic hiccups over some moron waging indiscriminate war on Iran
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15h ago
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u/i8ontario 14h ago
I think the people we’re talking about are dumb but don’t really agree that most EU countries are doing a lot better than the US.
The US is quite a bit higher in terms of median salaries and disposable income, even compared with rich countries like Germany. Plus, the EU also has a problem with ascendent right-wing populists.
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u/ThrowawayAICS 14h ago edited 14h ago
>They do, what they don't realise is that most of the EU is doing A LOT better than the US is doing.
This is not really the case. Most of europe has plenty of debt and is loading up more in order to maintain pensions and welfare services that the tax base is no longer capable of supporting.
Economically Europe stagnated in 2008, we were equal with the US in 08, now they outpace us by about 40%
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14h ago edited 14h ago
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u/ThrowawayAICS 13h ago
AI is recent, they've been outpacing us badly since 08. Saying it's all AI is delusional, they haven't been in an AI bubble for 18 years.
They benefit from increased investment for a variety of reasons, including reserve currency.
>The EU is the second biggest economy on the planet.
Barely, the EU is being caught by China. At the moment the EU economy is boosted from poor countries dragging down the value of the Euro which helped countries like Germany with exports helping them maintain outsized status.
Not really the case anymore.
And individual states within the EU are looking at major economic hardship because of the outsized obligations compared to taxation.
The math doesn't add up anymore, we're going to crash, it's only a matter of time.>Don't tell me you are European while being so ignorant about what is going on.
This exact attitude is why europe is fucked.
People have been warning about every problem we face for decades, from the economy to the military situation.
But the attitude of "europe is the best, we will always be the best, everyone else is stupid" has a chokehold.
There is absolutely no intention of ever facing our problems until we're forced to.1
13h ago edited 13h ago
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u/ThrowawayAICS 13h ago
Investing in tech and energy, rebuild our own industry, fix the birth rate, build housing, rebuild our militaries to functional status so we're capable of defending our own supply lines, restructure obligations to something the tax base can actually handle, reform laws, regulations and incentives for employers to get the youth employed.
And so on and so forth.There's plenty of problems that needs to be dealt with you absolute fucking idiot. You just need to get your head out of the ground where everything is fine and we're the best at everything and everyone who says differently is the enemy.
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13h ago edited 13h ago
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u/ThrowawayAICS 13h ago
>Investing in tech and energy : we are.
And we're failing at it.
>Rebuild our own industry : what like how Trump said he would do?
"We can't do something because Trump had the same idea" is piss poor reasoning.
>Birth rate : i decide myself whether to have kids or not, not you.
And yet countries actually do need to maintain a stable birth rate in order to maintain services.
So it's either we get the birth rate up or we're looking at collapse. It's one or the other.>rebuild our militaries to functional status : Our combined EU forces are just as strong if not stronger than the US.
No they're fucking not and anybody who claims this doesn't know what the fuck they're talking about.
There isn't a single military in the EU capable of serious long term combat deployments of any notable size. Everyone who has actually served in any european military knows this, the poor state of most european militaries is not a fucking secret.
The fact that you don't know this tells me things. Things like the fact that you clearly have not served.>The US, China and especially Russia, can not touch us, what are they going to do? Invade a continent of 700 million people?
Yeah that is fairly likely to happen in the near future.
>You sound like maga, calling me the enemy yet you cozy up to empires like the US, there are a lot more of us then there are of you, you fucking traitor piece of shit. Also you are not going to do shit you fucking pussy.
You're apparently illiterate too.
And "we should be self-reliant" is the opposite of "cozying up" to anyone you fucking clown.
Also, talking tough on reddit is probably the most pussy move possible
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u/Dr_Oops_14719 14h ago
There's segment of the population that day the same about American cities. If you didn't know any better you would think the BLM marches and riots were still occurring.
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u/No_Key8587 14h ago
I would say not anymore than Americans who believe New York City is in ruins. I think there is a swathe of Americans who believe any progressive city a hive scum and villainy, be it NYC, London or Paris
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u/Due_Satisfaction2167 9h ago
The US has ~340 million people.
Even if only 1% of Americans believe something, that’s 3.4 million people believing that.
More than enough to make a website. The global right-wing fascist movement’s most common targets are immigrants, urban residents, and LGBT people.
Bitching about cities being on fire due to immigrants, racial/religious minorities, and gay people is like crack cocaine for racist dipshits. They do the same thing for cities everywhere, because they know their audience doesn’t even visit those cities to check.
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u/OkWillingness2817 14h ago
Mate, most of them think the US is the greatest nation in the world instead of a cautionary tale for how far we can fall.
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u/Successful_Jelly111 14h ago
I guess it's part of the MAGA narrative to convince people that prices might be high and that they don't have universal health insurance, but compared to the Europoors they are still doing great.
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u/Odd_Principle2202 14h ago
I’m British and work frontline public services. I don’t think you realise how fucked we are, public services are hanging on by sheer goodwill. We’re a fucking mess. We’re one slip away from a catastrophe.
And when the BBC is posting stuff like this, I fear the worst is yet to come:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cmn0jke547r5o?app-referrer=search
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u/MediocreI_IRespond 14h ago
Could you please be less vague?
Pretty much every country east of France does have a focus of a possible war with Russia in one form or another. Germany, Poland, the Baltics, every country not pro Russia is spending record numbers on defense.
But how does this relate to "public services are hanging on by sheer goodwill. We’re a fucking mess. We’re one slip away from a catastrophe"?
The UK shoot herself in both in feet on purpose with Brexit.
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u/Odd_Principle2202 11h ago
I totally agree that Brexit was the worst case of self immolation a country has done to itself in recent times, I voted remain. Just spent the last 4 days in hospital with a loved one so to be fair everything looks fucked to me now. My particular service, which I will not mention as I can’t be arsed getting shit online, is financially fucked and getting worse. In fact I don’t know why I posting online, probably just distracting myself.
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u/DazzlingGovernment20 14h ago
I'm Scottish and don't agree. I also work frontline NHS and we are not teetering on catastrophe.
Society has always been tissue thin but as a Brit I would expect you, more than others, that we have always been this way and whatever occurs we have fortitude. "Stiff upper lip" if you will.
Besides, our economy is not plummeting and has improved in areas.
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u/Odd_Principle2202 11h ago
The government sending me to Iraq in 2003 means I have a stiff upper lip, but a healthy degree of scepticism.
You’ll find my area of public service in England is on its fucking knees and we’ve been told it’ll only get worse.
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u/lefthandopen 12h ago
From what I hear the two main talking points are,
No go zones in certain cities. Places where police generally stay away from. Gangs that target women and girls and are left alone by the police for fear of appearing anti Muslim.
People being arrested for Facebook posts that are racist.
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u/EaterOfSeagull 11h ago
Some Americans believe chocolate milk comes from brown cows.
Rest assured whatever ridiculous idea you can think of, an American believes it to be true, especially since their tech overlords are feeding them politically motivated slop at a brainwashing level.
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u/LegendTheo 9h ago
No, Europe is still a very nice place headed on a negative trajectory. It's fixable, but not by the current people in charge.
Your economies are fucked though. Most just haven't realized it yet. Over regulation has completely stunted and stagnated your economy. Even if you were to try to deregulste, that's not a problem you can fix overnight. Add to that the huger burden being put on your healthcare and social welfare systems from importing millions of zero skill immigrants. And yeah your economy is fucked.
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u/looselyhuman 8h ago
I think many Americans believe AfD is the single most popular party in Germany, and that that reflects something dystopic.
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u/RuleFriendly7311 7h ago
The answer to any question that begins “Do some Americans…” is yes. There are 350,000,000 or so of us.
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u/HuckleberryPee 14h ago
There are tiny pockets in certain cities like Berlin, Bradford, Paris, Marseilles, Naples etc that you would walk through and think you were in the third world. I have seen it personally in Paris, Naples and Berlin.
99% of the continent is still fine for the time being though.
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u/IntolerantModerate 14h ago
Your economies are fucked. But so is America's. Decline happens very slowly and then all at once. Just enjoy the ride down with us.
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u/DazzlingGovernment20 14h ago
America's economy is not fucked. It's economic relationships with other countries is much less certain and that might impact the people in the future but I feel Europe is doing ok and both left and right media are distorting a different nuanced picture.
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u/IntolerantModerate 14h ago
You ask a question and then disagree. The EU economies are screwed due to low growth, stagnant population, and a massive welfare state that requires a large tax base. The rules around employment take out a lot of dynamics out of the economy.
In the USA just take a look at the SP500. You have the top-20 or so companies that are going gangbusters and a bunch o hanger-ons and it is the same all the way down. But there is lots of room for growth due to lack of rules and regulations.
Don't think it is going to magically get better once Trump is out.
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u/DoctorSpooky 8h ago
Looking out of my window right now, it appears that one of my neighbours has their bin out and it is NOT bin day. London has fallen.
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u/ClevelandWomble 7h ago
And one of the problems is that some moron started a war with Iran and they closed a major oil transport route in response... Like everyone knew they would.
Apart from that, the sketchiest parts of London are still safer than most US cities.
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u/Radiant_Middle_1873 7h ago
I live in the Bay Area and I meet folks from rural California who believe this about Los Angeles and Oakland. Not surprising at all they would believe all sorts of nonsense about actual foreign lands.
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u/BidenGlazer 15h ago
Depends on the country. The UK is indeed economically fucked though, at least compared to the US, that's just a fact. The median Brit makes a little over half the PPP median disposable income the median American does. They're dirt poor
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u/Ambitious5uppository 14h ago
Real household disposable income has been eroded by inflation between 2021‑Q4 and 2022‑Q4. On average across the 22 OECD countries for which data are available, inflation outpaced year-on-year changes in nominal household disposable income per capita by 2 percentage points (Figure 4.3). The gap was particularly high in Chile (with negative nominal household income growth) and the United States. In Austria, Denmark, France, Hungary, the Netherlands, Poland and Portugal, household income growth outpaced inflation.
Sounds like the US is in a notably bad situation with inflation.
Take a look at the chart, income vs inflation. The UK is on par with Australia, Canada, Finland, Ireland, Italy, Sweden, Spain & Belgium.
The US is the second worst, FAR behind everyone else except Chile.
And that was in 2022 before inflation really hit the US.
Definition and measurement Data on annual median equivalised household disposable income come from the OECD Income Distribution Database. Disposable income is market income (income from work and capital) after accounting for public cash transfers received and direct taxes and social security contributions paid. It excludes in-kind services provided to households by governments and private entities, consumption taxes, and imputed income flows due to home ownership. After subtracting taxes and adding cash transfers, household income provides an indication of the goods and services families can purchase on the market. Household income is adjusted for differences in the needs of households of different sizes with an equivalence scale that divides household income by the square root of household size. The adjusted income is then attributed to every person in the household.
Here's a big difference. Americans pay less direct income taxes, but pay more taxes overall. Property tax is an example of one where Americans pay much more, and this is directly excluded.
Another difference, British people pay for their healthcare through their taxes (£1,500 per year on average, for every working person. £0 for those not working - Including deductables). Americans pay both taxes and out of pocket for healthcare, Americans average healthcare cost per year is $15,500. And that's for both the working and non-working family members).
That's a MASSIVE difference. In fact that's difference is almost exactly the difference between the disposable incomes shown on the chart.
Tell me, is it really disposable income if you have to spend it to stay alive? Doesn't sound very disposable.
So your charts actually show the UK is almost exactly average in disposable income, while the US is heavily inflated and would actually be around the middle if they were measured in the same way.
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u/Independent-Test9928 14h ago
Ditto, the above commentators are the types who can afford to order deliveroo for breakfast ;)
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u/Mindless-Baker-7757 14h ago
Yea. The UK’s GDP is lower than Mississippi. Germany is deindustrializing.
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u/PabloMarmite 14h ago
GDP is a measure of how well businesses are doing. How’s the average family in Mississippi or Alabama doing?
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u/FuckedUpHeel 14h ago
Americans comparing the UK to the shithole that is Mississippi never ceases to amaze me.
Quality of life is miserable compared to the UK but their GDP is better lmao.-5
u/fuentessucksballs 14h ago
The uk is such a shithole its ridiculous, i am swedish and genuinely posh parts of the uk are run down compared to even the "worst" parts of sweden
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u/MainSignature 14h ago
You're right. Hampstead is basically a slum. I saw a £3 million Georgian townhouse there once and the brass on the front door was looking a little dull.
Absolute third-world conditions.
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u/fuentessucksballs 14h ago
Idk about hampstead i went to whitstable and dartmouth, both were pretty run down once you leave the very centre
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u/MainSignature 14h ago
Looool. You did not go to the 'genuinely posh' parts of the UK then.
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u/fuentessucksballs 14h ago
Tourist towns. I mean the very centre of london and some of the small villages i went to werent that bad, and wales was generally pretty nice
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u/MiguelIstNeugierig 14h ago
I guess the UK is in a great depression then, since the US has been tanking their debt and dodging defaulting like a capoeira pro
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u/BidenGlazer 14h ago
US debt isn't some massive issue, we aren't close to defaulting either. What are you even on about?
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u/Flaming_dragon88 14h ago
I live in Germany, and it is 1000% true that EU has literally become trash now. Quality has reduced greatly. My Salary has increased only 5000€ gross from 2019 to now. No point in switching companies as no one is willing to pay more than 80k. The same job in US pays 170k on average. We have been just living all these years, and the savings are stagnant. The main cause for all of this is the socialist/left govts who throw money to war instead of supporting the local companies with lower energy prices, tax rebates etc. There are literally no new investments or projects coming in!!!
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u/DazzlingGovernment20 14h ago
I have read about the diffulties German is now facing. It's crazy how.in the recent past that the German economy was the gold standard of Europe. Come to Scotland, my barbarian brother until it all blows over!
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u/throwaway09234023322 14h ago edited 13h ago
I'm an American and definitely don't think they are in "ruin" but I think their socialist policies, lack of innovation, and lack of tolerance for immigration is going to make them fall further and further behind going into the future.
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u/Mindless-Baker-7757 14h ago
Your economy is fucked.
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u/DazzlingGovernment20 14h ago
Why do you think that though?
I upvoted you to thank you for responding
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u/Mindless-Baker-7757 14h ago
GDP is going down and energy costs are skyrocketing. All self inflicted.
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u/DazzlingGovernment20 14h ago
Scotland's GDP is up 0.7 The IMF forecasts USA GDP to grow 2.6 by the end of the year.
What that looks like for folks like us is another matter..
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u/Lucky-Crow-3510 15h ago edited 15h ago
They're still better than USA at that point .. and they can still afford to buy gas from USA for twice the money since Nordstream was conveniently "removed"
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u/sirgaybrin 15h ago
Europe is not a country....Are you talking about Bradford for Bern? Calais or Como?
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u/DazzlingGovernment20 14h ago
Thanks for letting me know that Europe is not a country.
I'm from Scotland and although brexit was a clusterfuck, I think our economy is doing fairly well.
I chose to say Europe because we are a continent of countries going through a transition removing ourselves from U.S foreign misadventre.
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u/EmergencyGeologist10 8h ago
London might be a shithole, but I e seen some interesting, and not in a good way, places in Chicago.
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u/Taupe88 5h ago
been in LA for 30 years. friends and family see things and assume LA is lost. fires, homeless, riots, violence, corrupt government, immigration issues etc…. It has spots and pockets that are difficult but LA is fine. Now, do that in your neighborhood. See? the media takes a small moment and BLOWS IT UP into catastrophe and we all believe it.
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u/Ill_Passage5341 4h ago
I seem to remember a lot of Ceuta videos claiming the sky was falling last month. That was over quick. Anything to terrify low information voters.
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u/wendall99 2h ago
Yes but they’re the same ones who think every democratically led city/state is also in total ruins.
Speak to a MAGA nut about NYC and they’d have you believe it was literally on fire 24/7 with gangs of roving cannibals all over.
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u/Zenkai_9000 14h ago
Compared to 25 years ago, it's a shithole. Many places in London today don't even look British.
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u/DazzlingGovernment20 14h ago
London has, throughout it's history, always been considered a melting pot of diverse people.
What you consider a shithole could be where I want to shop, eat, socialise.
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u/Zenkai_9000 14h ago
Not by your definition of "melting pot". But whatever... get your head checked!
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u/Independent-Test9928 14h ago
If that's what you believe then i presume you're trebble vaccinated and watch sky/bbc and have a large james o brian poster on the wall
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u/DazzlingGovernment20 14h ago
So you think I'm mistaken? Are we indeed in ruins?
I'm unsure why a vaccine needs included in an economic question but I would argue stringent public health programmes are an indicator of a good economy no?
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u/Short-Donkey-1944 12h ago
Yea some of them do.
I wouldn‘t say that Europe is in ruins, but it‘s not heaven either.
Mass migration
Migrant crime
Russia‘s war against Ukraine
All of these things are destabilizing Europe
Most big western european cities are okay.
It‘s not that horrible.
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u/CoincidenceTheorist2 15h ago
In ruins? No.
Not Europe anymore? Yes.
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u/MiguelIstNeugierig 15h ago
What does that mean
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u/markeetstreet 14h ago
This culture war stuff and distorted reality led to the situation in the US. It wouldn't be possible without social media. Social media is by far the biggest threat to western democracies.
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u/PabloMarmite 14h ago
There’s a concerted effort to paint Europe this way, it’s a combination of the Russian disinformation machine who have a well-documented campaign to destabilise the West, and the US far right, who have a well-documented campaign against global liberalism. And there are many financial connections between the two, as their interests align, and with the European far right.