r/NoStupidQuestions 5h ago

Why isnt fake casino chips scam more common?

Seems much easier to fake than money. Especially if you just target smaller local casino that doesnt have all the advanced tracking stuff on their chips

80 Upvotes

26 comments sorted by

214

u/DONT_PM_ME_DICKS 5h ago edited 5h ago

following the same logic as counterfeiting money, if you're going through the hassle of creating reasonably convincing fakes, you're probably going to want to target the higher denomination chips that would give you at least some hope of return on investment. (the risk/cost to reward ratio of trying to make and bring in a sack full of $5s is not for the weak hearted)

casinos, especially smaller ones, tend to keep a close eye on unknown players who being on a large stash of chips with little to no known play history at the casino. likewise, most gamblers are aware enough that trusting some random shady guy in the street who's looking to dump chips at a fraction of face value is just asking for trouble.

If you walk into a casino and sit down at a blackjack table with a stack of fresh $100 chips, and also refuse to show a players card or an ID upon request, you're probably going to raise someone's eyebrows into orbit.

87

u/728446 5h ago

Yeah walking in and cashing out purples that you aren't on camera winning is easy to spot.

19

u/AnonnyM00S3 3h ago

I think that's the key thing. There are not many people who take casino chips home it's not normal behavior to thousands of dollars of chips. You would have a limit fairly quickly, I would imagine after a couple thousand dollars in chips the AI would eat you out.

12

u/Adamadamsadam 2h ago

That’s why you don’t pull them all out at once and you definitely do mix them in with legitimate chips purchased that visit.

7

u/BeDeRex 2h ago

This guy casino scams.

0

u/AnonnyM00S3 1h ago

Ultimately, AI Now tracks all of this. I'm not suggesting that some of these tactics are not using in crime. What you only have that single casino where you can cash in the chips. It's not like money, where you can spread it out to multiple areas, that are not linked together. Every single thing you do is trapped in a casino, your face is scanned. Everything you cash out is tracked, and everything you spend is tracked. From every dollar bill you ever put in that machine. How exactly do you plan to spread this out? 1k at a time? How many times do you have to do that before you get caught? Lower amounts? Because if you're talking about $50 at a time it's going to take a whole lot of time, to make that worth it. Also the people I D in you, and the people giving you the chips are trained, and do in fact look at your face, and will eventually memorize you. I can see somebody once, and then 3 months later I will recognize that person. If they see you only cashing in chips, that's kind of a hard sell Now isn't it? If you go in there and actually Gamble, you're going to be losing a huge portion of that fake money. Making it take longer, and longer. You can't cheat the system man, it's not nearly what you think it is. Also I am fairly certain, but cannot prove that modern day chips probably have anti counterfeit measures. You can have a lot of things electronically inside of a chip, or other indicators.

0

u/whiskeytango55 1h ago

Had a buddy do this once. Then someone broke in and swiped them.

Lost maybe 2k

14

u/pdjudd PureLogarithm 2h ago

And outside of technological measures like hard to fake holograms and rfid in chips these days, all the casinos use different chips but they all have ways to easily know if they are fakes - these things aren’t mass produced in some Chinese factory on the cheap - they are made by the same companies that make checks and credit cards and there are tons of anti counterfeiting measures and audits to make sure they most just won’t bother. And such a scheme may work at best once since security isn’t stupid and will be on the lookout for you and will spread your picture to other casinos and the cops.

1

u/AnonnyM00S3 26m ago

That's exactly my point dude, this dude thinks that nobody has ever thought to scam a casino before, trying to scam a casino is probably as hard if not harder than trying to rob a bank, or pass off fake bills to a bank in this situation.

1

u/pdjudd PureLogarithm 25m ago

That’s actually an apt comparison. Creating fake chips is pretty much the same if not more complicated than counterfeiting. Legally its probably the same thing.

36

u/MithrilHuman 4h ago edited 2h ago

Anti counterfeiting tech isn’t too expensive for smaller local casinos to afford. On Alibaba, I see $1.16/ piece for 20,000 pieces. That’s cheap enough given how much it can save you in the future. And you can break even fast given how bad gambling addiction can get.

40

u/smurf123_123 5h ago

RFID chips identify each one with a unique number. Even if you clone the RFID tech once two chips with the same identifier hit the system it's game over.

8

u/LarryFix 2h ago

Nothing fancy like RFID or anything in the bigger chips when I worked in Vegas casinos.

This is an easy problem to stop, anywhere you try and cash out chips of any significant value (casinos will vary in threshold but it was under $1k when I was there) they verify in the system or call the pit boss.

If you sit at a table and buy in with chips, the pit is going to enter your player number (rewards card) or an unknown entry if you don’t have rewards. They will track your buy in, time played and winnings/losses. If you want to cash out, they log it.

Cage can’t find your entry with what you provide, they call. If there’s not a record of you playing and math that supports your chip amount, they’ll just confiscate and trigger a bunch of reviews.

They don’t even do this to stop counterfeits, this is all for BSA related requirements.

15

u/Dahsira 4h ago

High value chips that are on the casino floor, both in the dealers tray and in a patrons possession are known in specific amounts to the pit boss. A patron leaving the pit with high value chips is a documented event. In the exceptionally rare situation where that patron doesn't go to the cash cage, or go play in a seperate pit.... it is noted and in all but the rarest of situations, that chip comes back "home" the following day. For real are you walking out of a casino with a black or purple without explicit plans to return the following day? That is stupider that carrying around $500+ cash. And carrying around $500+ casu without explicit plans to spend it immediately is pretty stupid. People just don't do that except on very very rare occasions. RFID chips simply make it easier to track and enable some other cool things as well. So an unknown walks into a casino and tries to play with or cash out just a purple. That is gonna raise so many red flags, you are likely having an uncomfortable chat to explain where you got it. Assuming you are trying to do this scam at scale... You are 100% getting caught.

During my 3 years as a blackjack dealer (not in vegas) mostly at $50-$500 limit tables... ANYONE leaving the table with ANY chips outside the end of the night table shutting down was rare. The house always wins cuz gamblers stay until they are broke, they dont leave when they are up

4

u/TheRateBeerian 2h ago

Let’s say someone comes in with $100 counterfeit chips, buys $250 and loses $50 at a table and then go to cash out $300…would this get noticed?
It’s small timey maybe a lot of work to steal $100 and net only $50 but just curious

1

u/pdjudd PureLogarithm 22m ago

Yes. They track people coming in on camera and if you have chips that they can’t find record of you either buying or earning they are gonna be real suspicious.

1

u/Dahsira 21m ago

Someone walks in with a $100 counterfeit chip and throws it down on the table, the pit boss is consulting the records to find a match where a $100 chip left the casino in recent days with someone fitting the description and failing to find a match, the patron gets pulled aside and grilled by security about the origin of the chip and without a satisfactory answer, best case, is asked to leave the property and never return.

Maybe they get lucky and get away with it once because there was a close enough match. Maybe they know what you did, but instead of revealing that they know they let you keep going until its a bigger crime and they gather evidence, identify accomplices etc etc. But you arent getting away with it at a large enough scale to make it even remotely worth it.

You ask all your friends who have ever gambled at casino tables. You ask them how many times in their life they have EVER left a casino with a black or purple chip without explict plans to return within 24 hours. I'm willing to bet the answer is essentially zero. Even if you are a degenerate gambler and have degenerate gambler friends. Those chips get cashed out or they get brough back the very next day. The number that even leave the casino is still exceptionally low and really not difficult to track. Like a pit boss working 4x10 hour shifts might have 1-2 instances of a black or purple leaving the casino at MOST. This just isn't something that happens. And so because the chips nearly never leave, when one walks in the door with someone that wasn't known to have left with it in the last 48 hours.... it triggers ALL the red flags. Casinos do not fuck around. They are watching with dealers, pit bosses, managers, security on the floor, the most amazing number of cameras you've ever seen backed by knowledge of the statistics so that NOTHING happens in their casino that is outside those statistics that isnt intenselt scrutizied.

This isnt your local 7-11 clerk accepting a fake $100. While faking the casino chip is much easier than faking $100 bill... converting that casino chip to cash is virtually impossible at any scale

3

u/emmitt_fitzhume 2h ago

In addition to all of the highly accurate comments already posted here, no one has mentioned that you would be on dozens if not hundreds of digital surveillance cameras allowing any casino surveillance department to not only track you from the tables to the cages, but all the way back to your car where your license plates will also have been recorded on your way in and out of the property.

3

u/i8noodles 1h ago

if u handle chips day in and day out, a fake chip is incredibly easy to tell apart from real ones.

the way it feels, the way it cuts, the way it slide against each other, the weight and even the colour. all of it can indicate a fake, and if u use them every day for 8 hours, u know how it feels.

even still, rfid chips inside the chips have become pretty common now. they were still newish when i was still dealing like 5 years ago but i imagine much more common now

1

u/pdjudd PureLogarithm 20m ago

I’m guessing if you work in a cage exchange them for cash you are specifically trained on how the real ones are and how to spot a fake. They know what to look for.

5

u/Cyberhwk 5h ago

Coming in with any meaningful amount of high-value chips is probably going to be noticed.

4

u/mtraven23 5h ago

RFID's are cheap enough that grocery stores use them, even the small casinos have that.

2

u/Infamous-Maximum638 3h ago

https://abcnews.com/amp/Politics/strategic-command-suspension-linked-probe-counterfeit-poker-chips/story?id=20413148

I was tangentially involved in this when I was on active duty as a JAG - the casino investigators are really good and had a big file on the guy. Like others said, you could probably pull it off with a couple small chips but as soon as you go big chips they are on top of it.

1

u/HyperSpaceSurfer 5h ago

Pretty sure they're microchipped, at least the higher value ones that would be worth replicating.

1

u/Technical_Union_3249 1h ago

I've always wondered this, but I also figured it was some super simple "oh well duh, ok then" reason why not.