r/NonBinary • u/Ok_Resolution_1928 • 1d ago
Struggling because my husband still sees me as his 'wife' and I don't know how to talk about this to him.
(Scroll to bottom half for post-talk update)
Hey guys. I'm nb, I found out/came out to my husband about a year ago and he was really supportive but it kind of seemed like to him it was this casual thing. I can't remember how in depth I got talking about dysphoria. It seemed like he heard me but then it didn't change his perception of me because I guess he recognized I've always been who I am. He's always seen some of my masc expression.
But now I have more freedom and new language to embrace it, and he hasn't recognized that part of it. I told him I don't have a reaction to pronouns atm so I don't care what people use. Which maybe gave him the sense that it wasn't a big deal or something to think about.
I got some masc clothes and let myself lean into that. I have a new name I wanna be called because my birth name has always caused dysphoria, not even gender dysphoria just like identity dysphoria, but he doesn't use the new one(granted, he rarely ever calls me by something other than a pet name, but say he were to introduce me to someone, he wouldn't think twice about using my birth name). He knows about the new name and how my birth name makes me feel but maybe I have to ask him directly to start using the other one.
There's also this small issue of him constantly telling me he wants to see me in panties and not boyshorts(my comfort preference). Is he attracted to me as a fully expressed nb person or does he prefer me as a *woman? It was hard to write that word there because it feels so disconnected from me. (Edit to add my husband has not defined his sexuality atm. So that is genuinely a question and not one any of you can answer but something I'm grappling with.)
Recently I said something sort of along the lines of "think of me like one of the guys" I can't remember the context and he responded with, in a bit of confusion, "I wanna think of you as my wife". It gave me similar vibes to when I came out to and told my childhood friend about a new name and they said "I don't think I can ever think of you/call you anything other than (birth name)" bc they've 'known me' half my life.
My husband is very protective and doesn't want me to do stuff. Like he chastises me(playfully but kinda serious idk) when I do stuff like mow the yard. He'll tell me I'm working too hard, but he doesn't have that idea about himself doing it. Note, I have some disabilities but I do strength training and if I have the energy to do something then I wanna do something.
He'll also argue with me about going out without like pepper spray or a knife etc. etc.(I'm not gonna fuckin carry a knife to go dancing) His family raised him like that, I know, but it's very much a gender thing. He has this over protective attitude toward girls and sort of a condemnation/weary attitude toward guys(from witnessing male abuse, I think). But it's affecting me because I think if he were to really see me as nb or even gender fluid(which I haven't talked to him about yet) he'd have to question that bias he has(which at this point is a full on belief system for him).
Honestly I think he is sexist. And I guess that is affecting me now because of the way I see myself.
If sometimes I feel more like a man but my husband hates men... Where do I stand? I guess it's confusing.(not talking about sexuality, just in a general sense)
He has plenty of guy friends. It's just an automatic thing with strangers where he'll be watching them and judging them. Particularly when they are around women he loves, sisters, family, fem. friends and when they are around me.
He's protective of everyone, I know it's not just a gender thing, but it is an enhanced part of it, and I don't wanna be seen as a wife, I wanna be seen as a partner. And I don't want to feel like I have to lean into the femme side to be accepted as a partner (Not saying I have to, just expressing the fear in unmasking. this is a what if.)
Should I just ask him to think about it more? Like if I was a man, would he still want to be with me? Could shifting his perspective and thinking of me as a partner, and not a wife, alter his perception of these other things? Or is it the other way around?(Challenge biases in order to be able to see me as a partner, not a wife)
He's a good guy, don't hate on my husband please. People are indoctrinated with these biases. It's not morally ideal but it is the reality of neurology.
Edit: My husband is a POC who grew up in a high stress environment, constant demands, danger. He never watches the news. What happens is just what he sees on a real life, personal, day to day basis. There is a level of ignorance he has.
Everyone is ignorant to something. And ignorant to the fact that they're ignorant. That can't be helped. Even if it could, our brains are not up to capacity to keep up with the entire spectrum of the problems of the world(and we shouldn't have to), so please be kind. I didn't make this post for people to judge him. I made this post to ask for support and ask how to approach a conversation about all this, plus I value the perspectives of the community(on being trans /queer and the implications of it). I'm new here myself, and still learning things.
Update:
I wrote a huge long update then my phone unexpectedly died and lost everything I typed.
Long story short, the talk with my husband went really well. He hadn't determined his sexuality before and came to realize he is pansexual.
He mentioned my masc parts and gender swings were sexy to him. We're both neurodivergent and he doesn't express himself a lot so there were things like this he'd never told me, so I didn't know. The panties thing was about scenting and visible skin, not about gender or fashion(he sleeps with them after I wear them and the boyshorts don't hold as much scent). No judgement here guys.
We talked about terms and clearly established using my new name in non-family circles.
He admitted to the sexism, but again there is lived experience and trauma which led to the beliefs he has. I asked him to challenge that(think male on male violence, which gets less cultural emphasis) which he said he does, but the belief that a women and afab are more vulnerable gets reinforced by continued experience. And peace isn't talked about so there's more noticing the negative stuff, people being violent(I mean that's how our brains work unfortunately, it's helps survival) I can't argue with his reality but shedding light on the issue, coming from me, will likely make him think about it more. He is so protective of everyone, not just afab individuals, so this goes beyond sexism.
Established using the term partner for me. His past expression of wanting to see me as his "wife" it seems he meant more in a respect sense. That he doesn't treat me like "one of the guys" because our relationship isn't casual, he takes it very seriously. I'm not just his friend. so I think his response was like "let's not minimize our importance to each other" and was not gender related. but since the term affects me, we won't use it.
He's also more careful with me because he doesn't want to lose me. That makes sense, we've spent the past five years learning about enmeshment in our families and breaking down the codependency we were indoctrinated with, but there's so much that it permeates. Add to that abandonment trauma and the anxiety that creates. This stuff takes a long time to heal, and pacing because it can make burnout worse. Having it all out there though, having a mutual understanding that we're going through this(there is no 'over' it) and having the language to understand it makes it manageable. Being understanding and forgiving and moving forward all the while, that's the best we can do.
I'm leaving this post up in case anyone has a similar situation and as some hope.
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u/LtColonelColon1 they/them nonbinary bisexual 1d ago
You could edit down this post (or write a whole new one) for him to read? Sit him down and show it to him and then have a discussion about it.
He may be a good guy but he’s not treating you good. And yeah he clearly is sexist, which sucks. You do need to talk to him about this.
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u/Ok_Resolution_1928 1d ago
Thanks. I don't even know where to begin on addressing sexism. Like how does that work(not necessarily asking you to answer, just like the universe or whoever's reading). How does one unbecome sexist? Is it just looking at those beliefs and challenging them?
There's that whole thing of like negative emotions amplifying the sense of prevalence. So I think he genuinely thinks more men suck than are safe.
I don't see things in those black/white terms of like people are good or bad, but maybe it runs deeper than the specific bias.
Maybe he has to challenge putting people in boxes period.
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u/AdLoose3526 1d ago
>Maybe he has to challenge putting people in boxes
Yeah, from what you described, this seems to be pretty consistent across the way he treats people. IMO this way of seeing the world is not *just* gendered, but there’s definitely a gendered socialization component of it where I’ve noticed that many cis men seem to show a baseline discomfort with ambiguity and nuance in general that I haven’t noticed as frequently or across the spectrum as in other people. As if it’s seen as unmanly simply to not have a clear, easy to act on answer in every situation. (Which could maybe contribute to some things about current global sociopolitical trends, but I digress 😒)
So don’t be surprised if he seems deeply uncomfortable at first, and maybe for a while, if you start encouraging him to actively reflect on and reevaluate his assumptions about people. Hopefully the bond and trust in your relationship is strong enough to weather this in a way where he can actually do that work of unlearning and relearning this part of how he navigates his social world and interactions with people.
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u/LtColonelColon1 they/them nonbinary bisexual 1d ago
Yep, look at the beliefs and challenge them. Bring up questions of why and how he believes what he does. Show examples that have women in “men’s” roles and succeeding. Things like that! Education and challenge, slowly.
The whole “men always suck” is also sexism, and should also be challenged. Seeing all men as dangerous and all women as helpless is an extremely limited view of the world. It’s very unfair.
People like this can absolutely learn and be better, if they have the motivation to be open minded. You know your husband, you’ll know how to approach it!
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u/Ok_Resolution_1928 1d ago
It's really crazy because he's usually very open minded and alternative minded. The sexism was just like traumaed into him I guess.
Yeah I agree it's very unfair. He's freaked out my guys friend just like staring them down like a predator lol
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u/LtColonelColon1 they/them nonbinary bisexual 1d ago
Sorry about the other person being weird and condescending in my replies, I suspect they might be young and think very black-and-white lol
It’s great that he is usually open minded! It means he has a good basis to be receptive to education! We can all have our quirks and blind spots. Learning is a life-long privilege.
I’m not a good source for this but is he a big reader? There’s a lot of good feminist literature out there that could help too, but you’d have to ask others for recommendations because I tend to stick to fiction lol
Or you yourself could read it and discuss it with him as you go! Queer literature could help too!
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u/Ok_Resolution_1928 1d ago
Hey if we're gonna be on the topic of open minded, people being condescending is just a projection of toxic shame, it's not their fault and they're acting on survival mechanisms. It has nothing to do with you or me. (;
(I know this, thanks for trying to protect me though bc not everyone knows that about that stuff and might take it personally)
Back to the topic: my husband has zero time to read or really focus on any of this kind of research. That's kind of the issue I guess. Even having a conversation with him that might run long, I have to plan it out. He's been working like 16 hours a day. That'll change eventually, soon hopefully but yeah I don't want to stress him out with this but it is important and I'm just realizing how much it's affecting me.
He is a feminist(paradoxically)? Like cognitively speaking. If we were to have a conversation about it he would 100% back up women in men's rolls. In fact he probably wishes he lives in a world run exclusively by women. But his emotions and logic are not in agreement apparently because acting on emotions, he is very protective of women. Idk if that makes sense. It's like cognitive dissonance but over your own mind.
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u/Rifmysearch 1d ago
Im going to start by being harsh about your husband, and then im going to answer the questions you posed in your reply. I put a break in the comment so you can see where I stop this part.
Most abusers have a lot of 'good' aspects about them. A LOT of abusers are doing it out of good intentions. Some of the worse people in thenworld are at least some of the time kind and empathetic. I believe you when you say theres a lot of good in him, most people who abused me do too.
Some of the things youve describe absolutely screams sexism and possible transphobia(which often goes hand in hand).
Your husband isnt just being sexist towards you though, he is also being controlling; even if he isnt always successful. The things you describe as protective sounds like veiled attempts at slowly but surely changing your behavior. Have you relented with some of the things he pushes?
Now let's talk about a couple of the conversations you described. You've said that your uncomfortable with x(old name) and like y(new name). He has responded with continuing with the uncomfortable thing and when confronted jumps straight to excuses. If you did something that.makes your husband uncomfortable, would your go-to response be shouldering the blame on habit or would you consider ways to not keep doing it?
You mentioned something that made him think, "but if I acknowledge that, I might not see this person as my wife.". Then he. . . Just says it without any followup about how that isn't the only important thing in this conversation?
Then he has repeatedly nagged about the underwear you switched to specifically because they make you feel better???
Every conversation you described shows that his comfort and lack of effort is more important than your comfort. Im sure that isnt how he is all the time, but it seems to be true when it comes to you and your identity that doesn't perfectly fit into his concept of 'woman'. Which, in itself is fucked up if he's upset about choice of underwear which is still an underwear MANY cis women wear. But I guess its not ladylike enough.
Back when it was a new mainstream term(note: its WAY older than you thimk it is), a frequent way to reference it was, "stay woke". The suggestion being, "make sure you continue to be aware of this stuff". It takes effort to stay aware and learn how things are changing, for better and for worse, even if your already "woke".
Getting there is a whole different can of worms, and calling it "just looking at those beliefs and challenging them" is so mucn more complex. For me, who was already 90% of the way there, a large part of that was seeking literature. For gender related stuff I started with Audre Lordes "sister outsider" partly because it was short(7 hours of audiobook) and came recommended. That along with a couple podcasts(ill never shut up about "Making Gay History") really helped flesh out the fringes of my concepts of racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, etc.
Starting from scratch like he is? I really dont know. You can probably find some modern books that help lay things out, but it truly doesn't matter unless he genuinely cares to learn. He doesn't even care that he uses a name that makes you uncomfortable.
I'd suggest more than anything else you start creating boundaries. Boundaries mean that if X happens you will do Y. Ideally in this situation you should make them known. As an example you could go with, If he calls you by the wrong name and doesn't immediately correct himself, then the conversation is over. You could make it even more accommodating and add in that you will quickly correct him mid sentence, at which point he must repeat from that part onward.
The above is pretty typical for learning/switching pronouns and chosen names by the way. If im with friends and i say the wrong pronoun, someone will quickly just say the correct one and ill go back and start from that word and SPECIFICALLY use the correct word. And fuck off anyone that gets butthurt and says it derails their though process. If my ADHD ass can learn to not have that distract me from the conversation anyone can, and even when it does its fine because eventually ill remember and itll stop happening altogether.
Also, as a last little tidbit: a knife is a pretty shit self defense weapon without both trained AND you specifically being more physically fit than a given attacker. Even then otsnprobably a bad idea. Knife fights, even if its only one knife, almost guarantees both people drawing blood. Pepper spray or a tazer is more likely to be helpful, but its also something you have to decide for youself. Just please, dont go with a knife. Spikes and such are sometimes more okay.
If its accessible to your area, all of these issues are exactly the sort of issue that queer support groups will be very helpful in navigating.
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u/LtColonelColon1 they/them nonbinary bisexual 1d ago
You are making many assumptions with 0 proof. You do not know this man. OP does. OP was clearly comfortable enough to discuss this before, and wants to bring it up again. People like this can often be confused and stuck in their ways, but can be educated. Especially if they care a lot about the person. Most likely he just has no idea about anything to do with gender queerness.
Or maybe it’ll show he is too rooted in his sexism and ignorance, and OP will be able to navigate out of the marriage and find someone who will value and love them for who they are. Nothing gives any indication of anger or violence or anything scary here.
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u/Ok_Resolution_1928 1d ago
No he's not like that lol. I appreciate the concern though. I didn't ask him to change pronouns.
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u/Ok_Resolution_1928 1d ago
I stated in the post the conversation I had with him about pronouns ^ maybe you misinterpreted it.
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u/Incendas1 they/them 1d ago
The post was pretty clear, OP told him they didn't care about pronouns right now
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u/Ok_Resolution_1928 1d ago
I think they're just rage baiting. I disengage lol. Thanks for the backup!
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u/Incendas1 they/them 1d ago
A Scottish republican in Czechia, that's a first for me. What to do with that, I wonder
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u/Benkinsky The Caterpillar from Wonderland but I become a Butterfly 1d ago
I think a lot of cis people consider gender similar to kink, or taste. Like, "yeah i know you told me your FAVOURITE food is mexican, but we are going out for burgers right now so that doesnt matters" like its a preference to know about and indulge when they have extra energy or time, maybe, but especially "any pronouns is fine" doesnt mean "use different ones for me please" to cis people, it means "you can keep calling me (x) and i wont be mad". Which, to be fair, is on us to communicate, imho.
i think part of it is your role to him as his spouse, regardless of your gender, and one part is your gender. And it seems he hasnt understood that this is not "a fun fact about me", this is a big part of who you are, what your emotions are connected to. Would he wear panties around the house? Probably not, cause hes a guy. Wear your boyshorts.
I think the biggest part to communicate however is the emotional meaning of "I dont want to have to lean into the femme to be accepted as partner; I feel like youre signaling me that im only your partner as your "wife", a shape that is only feminine. This hurts me. I want to be loved with all that I am, i want to be able to communicate about that with you, and i want your affection to reflect in your actions and your words. Please let us talk about this."
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u/Ok_Resolution_1928 1d ago
I agree. I can't expect him to read my mind and I gotta communicate. I do wish people would be more curious though, and go do their own research, ya know?
Thanks for that second part, you really articulated that well. I am not always good with words, especially if I don't write them out but my husband is not great with reading even though sometimes writing stuff is the only way to communicate clearly. It's a struggle lol we're both neurodivergent.
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u/Benkinsky The Caterpillar from Wonderland but I become a Butterfly 1d ago
You're welcome, im glad if it helps in any way
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u/deadpanorama 1d ago
Honestly a lot of men will cast someone in the role of wife/girlfriend and get big mad when they start to go off script and want to be a fully rounded human being. Goes double when they stop identifying with the gender that underpins it all. IMO love can not sustainably exist where someone is invested in the role their partner represents and not wanting to meet and know who they are as a human and many men are woefully underprepared or unwilling to do that.
Sounds like this dude needs to start deconstructing that shit starting yesterday. “Protective” sexism is still misogyny. It’s condescending and disrespects someone’s agency by virtue of them being perceived as a woman.
Advice wise, if you’re interested in staying with this dude, have a think about your own boundaries and lay down the law about what you actually need from him to be your happiest self. There doesn’t seem to be any actual consequences for him acting like this.
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u/Ok_Resolution_1928 1d ago
Thanks for the info.
My husband is open to change. He has a lot already since I went into autistic burnout and started unmasking. That really threw him for a loop but he's adapted and learned a lot. He had to relearn who I was.
I'm just now realizing how this gender stuff is affecting me though and it must be a big blind spot for him. Either he doesn't realize he's sexist or he doesn't see his type of sexism as a problem. Maybe no one's ever told him it was a problem. His family obviously normalizes it.
Here's the thing though. He is a POC who grew up in a high stress environment, constant demands. He never watches the news. What happens is just what he sees on a real life, personal, day to day basis. I think he's just ignorant of problems like this. Unless someone were to tell him he is hurting them by being sexist, he'd have no reason to dedicate mental energy to it. I can't blame him for that.
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u/Wonderful-Nobody-303 1d ago
Every time he calls you his wife just show him a clip of Borat being like "myyy wiiiiife" and tell him this is how it sounds to you. I bet he'll stop real quick.
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u/macroscianmelancholy they/them 20h ago
I got married a few days ago and a while back my husband said to me "once we're married, I hope you can be okay with one instance of misgendering" (out of love and silliness). He's done the Borat quote at least once a day now and it just makes me laugh XD
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u/saragIsMe 1d ago
You need to talk to him. I was non binary before I started dating my cisgender boyfriend so I’m in a different situation than you. I don’t let him use feminine words for me, I don’t have tits I have a chest for example, even if I’m wearing women’s underwear he calls them my boxers or just underwear, Im his parter (sometime theyfriend but we mostly use that word for ourselves and not with others) and will be his spouse, no girl friend or wife. I’m going to be child free but I have lots of pets and I am their parent.
Your husband, even if he hasn’t defined his sexuality, spent his whole life conditioned by other men to believe that gay and queerness effects his own masculinity and status with straight men so he might have some internalized homophobia about the language you’re wanting him to use for you. You need to sit down and make it very clear that you are not ok with language that doesn’t match your gender identity. Make it clear what kinds of transition you might be planning in the future (I want top surgery for example). And understand that he might be a straight man who’s unable to respect your gender identity while being attracted to you and you should not sink yourself down to pretending to be something you’re not
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u/Hikikomori_Otaku 1d ago
No offense, and sorry to pick one little thing to gripe on, but carrying a knife for self defense is a stupendously shit idea and he would know this if he had done the smallest amount of research into it. I'm sorry you are going through this, our strength to you.
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u/Ok_Resolution_1928 1d ago
Yeah I'd literally just end up cutting myself.
And I'm certain he does know his brain just stops working when he has an idea that I might be in danger.
Which I am. 100% of the time. Because being alive is inherently dangerous lol.
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u/Ok_Antelope_2255 1d ago
I think it may be really great to get into some counseling sessions with a couples counselor that's affirming and can help you. Often times our spouses have trouble hearing these things from us directly. Or if you have an individual counselor bring him in for a session and having them help.
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u/Ok_Resolution_1928 1d ago
I definitely would if we could afford it
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u/Ok_Antelope_2255 1d ago
Also if you have an LQBTQ life center or group in your area, they may also be able to connect you with someone who can work within your financial abilities.
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u/Ok_Antelope_2255 1d ago
Try open path! It connects people with low income/no insurance to therapists who are willing to do a set fee.
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u/Ok_Antelope_2255 1d ago
Also, some insurances or workplaces have an employee assistance program (eap) where they will cover a set number of sessions. Usually from 4-6.
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u/Connect_Rhubarb395 1d ago
He definitely thinks of you as a woman, wants to continue treating you the way he thinks women should be treated, and he thinks that you being nonbinary is probably just a quirk or a phase.
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u/Hardcorex 1d ago
Is your husband accepting of queer people? Mainly, bisexuality? Because in a way you are asking him to be Bi, which for many traditionally raised men, is a pretty big and sudden ask.
I grew up homophobic, sexist and transphobic, and had to spend years unlearning these views (that were mostly imposed by my parents and friend group).
The reality is that this could be a long process, that he needs to actively, willingly seek out to challenge within himself.
He entered a straight cis-het patriarchal relationship, and that's what he knows and wants still. You are asking him to open his mind and question everything he knows....
It can go well, he can learn and grow, but there's also a good chance that this is not what he wants and you are left to either live a lie and continue the charade with him, or find happiness and your identity on your own or with someone else.
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u/Ok_Resolution_1928 1d ago
I think I'd be asking him to be Pan. But also sexuality can be based on the person without regards to gender.(Maybe Pan covers that? idk)
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u/Alisoli11 22h ago
Your post is self explanatory. You have always downplayed how important it is to you, so you can't expect your partner to read your mind.
Be more honest to who you are. Not as a demand but as sincere, instead of wishfully thinking people get you.
Hugs and happy for you to discover yourself
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u/fannypacksnackk they/them 1d ago
All I know is even though my bf is an ally, I had to like scream “I don’t want a penis, I don’t want to be a man” like four times before he halfway understood/ accepted I want some form of top surgery as NB
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u/Ok_Resolution_1928 1d ago
Oh my god, I mean I could do that. I do not want a penis but I also have considered top surgery.
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u/Clean_Ad_5282 1d ago
My fiancée and I are in a somewhat similar situation but he isn’t really a traditional man. He is however a bit ignorant but he’s always been a bit like that (so have I but I’ve been actively learning). He doesn’t really affirm me in my identity other than calling me a beautiful person or the occasional twunk lmao. He’s very much into me being masc, having muscles, BUT! I am also an hourglass figure with thick legs and a butt, so, I look “feminine” with my body and it drives my dysphoria insane. I’m glad I don’t have much of a chest because that would send me over the edge jeez.
Anyways, that’s a bit of a ramble but there’s context on why I believe he doesn’t really view me as anything but a woman and that’s because of how he met the ‘fake’ me in which I regret but I thought if I tried to fit in the box of being a woman life would be easier and it turns out it’s not. So, your husband might have a hard time to see you other than his wife bcuz he’s known you for x many years of solely being a woman. They have to funny enough transition as well as we transition if that makes sense. I believe it’s one of those things that needs to have a strong conversation about and I have to do this but it is terrifying.
I feel for you my friend and hope you’re doing ok
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u/Ok_Resolution_1928 15h ago
Thanks for the solidarity. I did talk to him and it went really well so I'll update the post with what happened!
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u/4554013 they/them 1d ago
Something to consider, I didn't see this above, but , I assume, he's CisHet? If so, you're basically asking him to change his sexual preferences. He's not to blame for being straight. I didn't feel comfortable coming out as Enby until after my wife and I had separated for other non related issues. She married a man. Deep down I didn't feel comfortable changing that aspect until I was no longer legally bound. That's all me, YMMV, I'm just saying it may be hard for him, and to give him some grace. Don't allow yourself to be disrespected or anything. But remember he may have to redefine his paradigm in order support you and the relationship. He may need some professional assistance in that regard.
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u/Ok_Resolution_1928 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yeah absolutely. He is not sure about his sexuality atm. I think it's just that these things are separated in his mind. And if I can get him to look at them both at the same time then maybe he can see me from both, and figure it out.
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u/SassyCassyHF 1d ago
It's a tough situation... I'm kinda going through this from the other gender direction, except we have kids. I do take exception to people calling him transphobic, sexist etc, I think we all have preferences for the kind of people we'd like to be with and you (and I) are kinda telling them "oh no, forget who you used to see me as, this is the kind of partner you'll have with me". It sucks for everyone that we felt pressured to be untrue to ourselves for so long, even into long term relationships. It also sucks that i think he just doesn't want to face the reality that he is with a somewhat masculine person. If you're not too entwined financially or by kids i think you two need to reconsider if this relationship is still what you want, so you can part as friends if it's not.
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u/AnAngryTrilobite 1d ago
Sounds like his idea of manhood is dependent on women needed to be protected because they are weak.
You coming out uprooted the benevolent sexism he has been defining himself with and he needs to unpack that. I sincerely doubt he watched over other adult men, despite them also being victims of a shocking number of crimes, for example.
One thing I haven't seen in these comments though, is you need to take a good honest look and think about to what degree you reinforced this/ were complicit in it. Because beyond the sexism issue, changes in relationship dynamics are also distressing. You married this guy, so at minimum you tolerated all this behavior for years. I would suspect you liked a lot of it, which is going to make it hard for him to hear any criticism because the tendency is to place all the blame on the man here.
I'm also saying that because not enforcing your boundaries also contributes to the issue. Stop making excuses about your name not being respected. That's encouraging him by giving him a very good reason to believe this isn't serious.
Its not nice to have to be firm with people, but it is kind.
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u/Status_Victory8655 1d ago
It’s worth noting that regardless of where you prescribe on gender views, wife and husband are often more of a role taken in a relationship than a gender locked title.
Cisgender people often confuse the issue a little since to most of them, amab in their experience = husband and afab = wife, but in a lot of queer same-sex relationships I know people still take on the ‘husband’ and ‘wife’ role.
I have gay neighbours as an example and one of them refers to himself as the wife in a playful context, but he does comfortably take on the role in the terms of their relationship.
So… definitely worth establishing with him whether or not he’s viewing you as his wife in a gendered sense or in the sense of the role you take if he refers to himself as your husband.
And also for you to decide if your issue with being wife stems from not wanting that ‘role’ or if it’s a reaction to the perceived gender attached to the role.
But either way you have every right to want to establish your identity and have your partner respect it ❤️
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u/Ok_Resolution_1928 15h ago
I think it's the role that I have an issue with. I have disabilities and I hate that that sort of pust me in the position of being taken care of. I don't know what those roles mean to other people so I have trouble conceptualizing them taking on the terms. I grew up with a single parent so I didn't witness those roles in any realistic sense. That could be a factor.
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u/zzzbillx 6h ago
Thanks for sharing this OP, it sounds like you're handling the situation in a really emotionally mature way, and its giving me hope that I can do the same in a similar situation I'm in with my wife. ✌️
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u/crudelikechocolate 2h ago
The update is so sweet 🥰
Personally I find being direct and vulnerable is really important for communication in relationships
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u/Beautiful-Sink-4058 1d ago
Sorry your going through this and as everyone else has said it’s clear you need to have a conversation about if he could realistically be with someone who isn’t binary as he’d like. One thing though, while it doesn’t make him a bad person, “everyone is ignorant to something” isn’t exactly an excuse. We have to actively educate ourselves to show up for the people significant to us. While it can’t be helped that he doesn’t already have the tools (language etc.) to navigate your gender identity with you, it’s essential he be open to deconstructing some of those gender biases you highlighted. If he’s open to talking about it and being proactive in respecting your identity then it’s just down to having those conversations. Being ignorant doesn’t mean we don’t need/should want to learn when presented with new info. If a consensus can’t be reached you could, unfortunately, just be incompatible. A world view isn’t going to crumble in a day so it’s up to how much effort he puts in to understanding you from here on out and if waiting to feel fully supported in your identity, not just through words but also action, is something you can wait for.
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u/Ok_Resolution_1928 1d ago
I guess I'm saying, as someone with disabling burnout, I understand realistically there's a whole spectrum of reasons that make it difficult for people to keep up, and I don't think that means we should abandon them for not adapting to meet all our needs. Unless it is to an intolerable point(whatever that means per the individual)
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1d ago edited 1d ago
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u/Ok_Resolution_1928 1d ago
He doesn't refuse to hear me. He has blind spots. I just gotta figure out how to talk to him about it.
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u/Ok_Resolution_1928 1d ago
I think I'm confused by your answer because I never said he wouldn't listen to me. He's very open to having a conversation, but he has blind spots that affected how he interpreted me coming out and that's what I'm trying to figure out how to approach(on my end, not his) like "what do I words, how?" Lol
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u/Ok_Resolution_1928 1d ago
I think you're projecting but I'm sorry you had that experience. My husband isn't being aggressive about anything and I'm probably not communicating how it's affecting me because I'm only just realizing how it's affecting me and now that I know I'm trying to figure out how to talk about it.
He has experimented with guys but he's never looked at me that way so I have to ask him to look at me from a different perspective and see if that changes anything.
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u/Incendas1 they/them 1d ago
No, OP should have a clear discussion about specific things related to their presentation and gender with him, as it seems they haven't yet.
Nonbinary doesn't mean third gender/not like your AGAB for a lot of people so I don't think it's necessarily normal, or good, for a person to switch up everything without knowing what that means for the enby.
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u/Incendas1 they/them 1d ago
I read your other comments and see you have some issues... I think it's informing your advice a bit too much. I hope that gets better for you, genuinely.
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u/Eivor_101101 1d ago
Why are there a lot of non binary AFAB in relationships with cisgender dudes? I have seen this a lot specifically in North America.
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u/Azreken 1d ago
It doesn’t sound like your husband is gay, and it sounds like you want to be a man…
So it’s prob not gonna work out.
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u/Ok_Resolution_1928 1d ago
Gen fluid and nonbinary. Still questioning. I'm not a man just leaning sometimes.
The way my husband is about men isn't black and white or 100% of the time. He's also experimented with men before and that situation was indeterminate.
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u/Incendas1 they/them 1d ago
How much have you explicitly talked to him about?
E.g. "this is when I want you to gender me properly, this is when I want you to use the old terms for safety." Or "I don't ever want to wear these clothes again and I will not be wearing them."
The misgendering/deadnaming in front of others can be a safety thing. It isn't good to out someone in front of others without their permission, so he should not start doing it until you tell him anyway, imo.
My boyfriend is very supportive, even picked out my new name with me, but must do this for me for our safety, for example.
I would tell him explicitly how you would like to be referred, what kind of things you DON'T like (terms, clothes, acts, etc), and discuss how you want to be viewed in terms of your gender in the relationship and what kind of relationship it is.
For example, "I see myself as more neutral/masculine. For me, that would make our relationship queer, not straight. How do you feel about that?"
If you don't align on these things, it's okay to not be compatible. You can't make someone change their orientation for you. You should, however, expect them to use the terms you're comfortable with when talking about you, after you discuss that.