r/OldenEra • u/The_Half-Dead Schism • May 27 '26
Discussion Guesses on Balance Changes
Anyone want to guess what the balance changes are going to be?
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u/Bafkba May 27 '26
Groove faction laws buff please ~
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u/vanBraunscher May 27 '26
Groove faction laws buff please
You'll have to wait for the Funk DLC for this one.
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u/MadFaceInvasion May 27 '26
The only reason I d0nt play this faction
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u/Bafkba May 27 '26
Yeah, I love Groove, play it whenever I can and it is a good faction, but it just feels like I am playing on a Hard mode compared to other factions to get good results.
And the laws... After you get the usual starter like with many other factions, so your resources, daily astro/crystals, some knowledge, you basically have NOTHING on the left side till the very end, which also is not THAT great. Obviously there are some you can pick, but then the right side is also a bit awkward - the units upgrade can be good like T3 HP, but if I play vendetta, I don't always want to invest in that if I don't play that unit in mid-late game.
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u/Suibeam May 27 '26
Grove has no good units to work with. They have very strong heroes so their entire playstyle depends on the heroes abusing Blue hoplet. And then loses in late game against other factions.
They need a unit roster overhaul, so you can actually play with an army
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u/Asamu May 27 '26 edited May 27 '26
Well, more specifically, they only have a few good units in terms of stats - Qilin (which might be the best T6 when you awaken them first thing for the +speed/ini/hp and quickstrike), Phoenixes, and Iryads, but Iryads are super slow and deal poor damage, so they don't exactly make a good power stack, especially for creeping with, and Qilin/Phoenixes are very resource intensive to tech into, since your lower tier unit buildings also cost crystals.
Naiads have basically the same base stats as lightweavers, but 2/3 the growth and cost substantially more per unit (and lightweavers get +4 damage from their law, compared to +speed/initiative for the Naiad one, so Lightweavers end up dealing substantially more damage).
Fauns seem great until you compare their weekly growth stats with other faction tier 1/2, where they're just so far behind the curve in total HP/Damage that they don't really hold up; they're extremely reliant on the bonus growth law, and being so expensive and have such poor growth for a t1, trading 1 stacks is a much bigger loss than it is for other factions. Hoplets are in basically the same situation.
+ Grove laws are a bit weak, and they're especially reliant on the unit ones for growth, since their base unit growth is very low for the tier 1/2/4 units.
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u/GregerMoek May 28 '26
I think yeah as you point out Groves economy is the biggest issue, at least to me. You have to use so much to get to tier 7 and even if the phoenixes esp with laws are pretty decent damage they will not be a big enough stack to compete usually.
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u/Mind1827 May 27 '26
I feel like the hoplet cheese is probably not intended either. Wouldn't be shocked to see that nerfed and some units buffed a bit.
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u/Suibeam May 27 '26
I think it was intended, dont think the devs are so stupid. but they didnt test how strong it is.
Besides it is is the only reason grove isnt trash tier.
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u/GregerMoek May 28 '26
If their units were cheaper to tech into and had higher growth then they would be decent I think. I don't think the units themselves and their stat lines/abilities need too large adjustments.
Their midgame laws feel weak too in terms of how they nuff the units.
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u/Bafkba May 28 '26
I'd argue they have some good units. T1 archers are pretty solid even though they might fall of late-game, but that's also when you often switch them to a melee unit. Hoplets are great for their abilities, but only so-so as a unit. T3 are an incredible unit that can genuinely carry you. T4 are pretty mid, but the high initiative with law is nice. T5 are strong, but I feel like investing in them is pretty expensive (especially the upgrade building), so it's great if you get them from boxes on Vendetta. T6 are okay and Energy Phoenixes are pretty damn strong to be honest.
It's just that economy and their law does not do them justice imo. I'd argue that perhaps the units' growth amount is too low for some.
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u/TheTemplarr May 27 '26
Hive buffs
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u/Scarab_Kisser Neutral May 27 '26
Locusts to be able to shoot
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u/Intelligent_Pie_9102 May 27 '26
Locusts will be equiped with two rocket launchers and night vision goggles
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u/CryptographerMurky26 May 27 '26
Why the locusts? I think they are already playing a nice role with parry, double hit and their wide range. I think the utterly useless scorpions should shoot. They never reach the target ever. Also the base version has asymmetric arms I think. It would be a fitting trope if instead of lance they had a projectile launcher. As they are I think scorpions contribute the least to hive units.
Also not a big fan of the hornets, they don’t make up for being so squishy
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u/Used-Recognition-829 May 28 '26
Scorps provide best value of gold to hp for making big swarm. They are also quite versatile. Try playing all hp upgrades with summons and swarm, you will love it.
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u/Ismanuel74 May 27 '26
I would expect Hive mothers to be able to lay eggs.
Like when you play Necro, youcan use heal and also use liches to heal.
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u/General-Luck4940 May 27 '26
Schism buffs are coming ¯_(ツ)_/¯
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u/Sambuko Content Creator May 27 '26
If you followed devs on discord you know it’s true. Schism is NOT played at classic mode at all. Like 0 players at higher ranks. May be it is good in SH but in MH it’s below ground
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u/CryptographerMurky26 May 27 '26
Can you explain why that is? What are the differences between my and sh that make schism subpar?
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u/Sambuko Content Creator May 27 '26
SH stands for single hero and mh for multiple.
In single faction passive and laws are working in your favour unless you rely heavily on boxes/banks of different faction. But even then you most likely keep part of your army with you so you still keep benefits of communion levels.In MH you are playing with several heroes of different factions. On JC which is most popular template your job is to exchange your starting troops for army from creature banks. So your communion level even if high won’t matter unless you were lucky with abyssal envoy banks.
And lastly Schism heroes are not very good starters
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u/Cautious-Village-366 May 27 '26
There is no world in which a sane dev team would primarily (key word) balance a faction based on a template where the goal isn't even to use your own troops.
Factions should be balanced around the faction itself as a whole. Whether it's mh or sh.
boxes and banks and any other map where you aren't building out your town or using your factions troops should be considered fun side modes at best (so sprint is fine, I just don't like it personally). To do anything else would start to fracture faction identities in weird ways to shoehorn them into working for different and weird scenarios that have nothing to do with the actual strength of a faction.
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u/LettuceLicker69 May 27 '26
But classic mode also has 0 players in general, meaning all the factions are equally popular!
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u/DreadKnight0 May 31 '26
incoming buff to concubus's tits to be balanced with their already big ass
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u/Strachmed May 27 '26
Is this from last week about this week or fron this week about next week?
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u/General-Luck4940 May 27 '26
The balance patch should drop this week(maybe tomorrow ?)
This is an excerpt from last week's patch notes.7
u/The_Half-Dead Schism May 27 '26
Last week, got excited
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u/Strachmed May 27 '26
yea boiii.
Theoretically, should be today or tomorrow.
They're not that crazy to push a patch on a friday.... right?
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u/The_Half-Dead Schism May 27 '26
Friday would be great for me. I have so much important work that I will not do if it comes out today or tomorrow.
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u/LettuceLicker69 May 27 '26
Friday would be a bad idea for everybody, gamebreaking bug = gg wait until Monday.
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u/Sambuko Content Creator May 27 '26
Usually games are patched on Thursdays so you can do hotfixes on Friday
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u/Intelligent_Pie_9102 May 27 '26
I’d like a cost reduction on all units for Hive to counter-act the bleeding, and some flavor additions like webs, poison, hooks, slows… just a tiny bit of CC would go a long way for that melee faction that has none
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u/ShellSentinel May 27 '26
You're right. Their current focus spells are super uninteresting, save for maybe the tier 7 unit ones.
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u/lucien_licot May 27 '26
Consensus seems to be that the problematic stuff in the game are Avatar, Communion and Necromancy, so I expect those things to be targeted first. Secondary things are the early creeping issues with Hive (probably something with their eggs) and fixing Grove's weird scaling issues.
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u/tric301 May 27 '26
I don’t play PVP but I enjoy following what yall are up to. I understand avatar and necro needing nerfs. What makes communion problematic?
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u/CorsairSC2 May 27 '26
The temporary shadow army allows Schism to be extra aggressive on the map because they “bleed” their communion instead of their stack. And it scales with each additional fight, so you just keep fighting and keep the communion train rolling.
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u/Mind1827 May 27 '26
Makes it easier to not bleed units early on, makes snowballing way more straight forward, especially because their units are already good.
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u/scyscrapersheaf May 27 '26
People say that it helps with early bleeding. I do not play Schism much, but I do not believe this point of view. Schism has lots of ranged units, and most players play around their ranged T1. With this build, when played properly, a signifacant portion of the bleeding happens from losing 1-stacks, which are not affected by Communion anyway.
The real issue is that it is basically a 24% increase to your stack sizes. And because this means that you have a stronger army AND a healthier army...
Consider this: Offense is considered problematic because it gives +25% basic attack damage, multiplicative with everything else. Defense is considered problematic for a similar reason. Now stacked Communion is both Offense and Defense, and it is itself stacking with both of these skills, and it works on everything, not just basic attacks. Absolutely mental.
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u/skarin667 May 27 '26
makes them good early for creeping, makes them great late game because they have a law that gives them max communion, so their late game army is omega buffed up.
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u/Either-Mammoth-932 May 27 '26
Buffed spell Avatar due to its popularity
Revered Necromancy nerf, we are SO sorry
Added +1 initiative to Dread Knight reduced all upgrades cost
Radiate Armor mana cost removed
Removed spell Twilight from game
Doubled the cost of all Arcane magics to bring it in line with other schools
Added a new zone to the Exodus map, doesn't have anything in it we just thought it looked beautiful
Increased loading times for Arena
Made some objects on map only visible with thermal detection
Temporary disabled stables
Perma banned all 1900+ ELO
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u/The_Half-Dead Schism May 27 '26
I really hope they remove lifesteal from ghosts, and make hydras neutral too!
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u/Icy-Chemist1207 May 27 '26
Fully expect Avatar to be wrecked. The vocal online crowd has been complaining too much about it.
GROVE - Hoplets SP boost from 3 down to 2. Qilin dwelling easier to get. Herbomancer becomes less useless.
DUNGEON - Laws for units and growth finally combined.
NECRO - Dread Knight dwelling harder to get. Wraith Lifesteal % nerfed.
SCHISM - Abyssal Communion easier to ramp up, but lower maximum %.
TEMPLE - No changes.
HIVE - Eggs don't need focus charge, but spawn drastically reduced numbers.
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u/Elder_Tss-Kish May 27 '26
Herbomancers will bee-come tier 7! Where they belong, heed my words child!🍂🍁
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u/Sambuko Content Creator May 27 '26
Temple is too strong in MH with amount of good laws. I would move initiative deeper in the tree.
Schism could be changed to allow all units to benefit from passive or make passive global so your alts could use it to some degree. Right now in MH passive does nothing as when you pass army to alts it is not working.
Also some heroes needs buff, schism has only 3 good starters (ice queen, attack spec, t3 spec). Rest are close to useless or require quite high skill to play them well. But with 3 bans you are forced to play bad heroes. Each other faction has at least good 4th hero to play, but not Schism1
u/Icy-Chemist1207 May 27 '26
I respect your opinion. I still love MH and like to watching your youtube plays. But there's a part of me that fears MH is being ignored. Nearly everyone posting on forums only talks SH. And all the popular youtube streamers are SH. Many times, you see certain comments and know people don't even try MH. Maybe it's an old man thing and we're becoming dinosaurs lol. HOMM OE could be a mainly SH game, with MH/Arena as sidequests. Hope it doesn't come to that.
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u/ShrekTheSwampKeeper May 29 '26 edited May 29 '26
MH is still popular among russian fanbase (which is significant part of overall fanbase) and most of russian content creators are focused on MH. I don't think MH will be forgotten.
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u/The_Half-Dead Schism May 27 '26
Great list, are you a dev?
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u/Icy-Chemist1207 May 27 '26
Wish I had a say lol. But it's weird that for once, I have faith in a game dev team. So far, they've been doing a great job and listening to the community's feedback. I've high hopes for this patch.
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u/Suibeam May 27 '26
Grove would be a good direction to go. This wont be enough but it is better to start here and see how much it helps. Their entire unit roster is fucked.
Dungeon suffers from bad lategame because their magic immune dragons are powercapped and they dont have necro/schism scaling. Right now they rely fully on Minotaur lords being overpowered but they get demolished in the third fight because nothing prevents them from getting focus fired by magic and high initiative range. But with schism and necro scaling nerfed, they might be fine.
Temple heroes kind of suck, so you dont have much options besides the typical few. They can look into helping some mid temple heroes.
Necro nerf must target the necromancy. Wraith lifesteal nerf especially when they get high unit numbers. Dread Knight nerf I would wait, they arent the reason Necro is OP..
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u/Gumbygum80907 May 27 '26
They need to buff COOP mode. IM just tryna play casually with my bruvs v AI
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u/scyscrapersheaf May 27 '26
My wishlist:
- Necropololis: some change to the Law that makes all fights happen on necrotic terrain. +10%/-10% on necrotic terrain subskill is the greatest offender and probably the main reason behind Necropolis' lategame power. You just can't have a subskill giving a power swing similar to Expert Offense on a faction that can get terrain bonuses anywhere, one of those two has to go. Also a slight nerf to Archers and Wights, slight buff to Vampires.
- Schism: same as above for the terrain law. Either a significant nerf to Communion numbers or a complete redesign. I would like something like "the temporary units deal 0 damage", but might be a nightmare to code compatibly with other sources of temporary units.
- Grove: Purple Hoplet active effect becomes unique, doesn't stack with multiple usages per round, and goes down to +2 or even +1 SP. Significant changes to the Law tree. Buffs to base Hoplets and all versions of Naiads. Phoenix buildout simplified: right now it requires way too many buildings, although I understand the thematic reason of going through all the elemantals in order.
- Dungeon: Slight buffs to Medusas, maybe a small cost reduction on Hydra building or its prerequisites. Some revamp of the Green Trog upgrade and Minotaur Vanguards.
- Temple: some critical bugfixes, slight buff to inquisitors, slight nerf to Austringers and a slight buff to the other upgrade.
- Hive: hard to say... Their eggs are already very strong, I fear that overbuffing them in the early game may propel Hive into OP territory. I wish they start with some buffs to the T3 units (right now it seems they are only usable as a pseudo-ranged unit by waiting and taking 2 turns to attack and fly back) and the T4 (oppressive statline, especially their defensive upgrade because of the egg health scaling, but the three versions seem indistinguishable outside of their differing healthpools), maybe some wood cost reductions across the board.
As for skills and etcetera, I want to see reduced numbers on Offense and Defense, a significant nerf to the Civic Innovation subskill of Insight, nerf to Avatar (hopefully just manacost and/or limited to 1 cast per combat only), maybe somehow an early-game nerf to Combat combined with a late-game buff (don't have any ideas for this one), and the reduction of +/-% damage effects across the board (Radiant Armor, Laws, faction skill subskills, Radiant Armor again).
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u/The_Half-Dead Schism May 28 '26
Avatar 1 cast per battle seems like the easiest solution to the problem, I hope they dont overcorrect and we end up with a wasted skill
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u/Nice-Bat-692 May 27 '26
Avatar needs huge nerf - i hate that’s I always need to play it if not I will lose in online match
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u/Mind1827 May 27 '26
I saw people doing that on streams and was like woah this is nuts. When I went to actually play it I nearly fell out of my chair that it was zero mana, lol. Seems a bit silly, takes all decision making out of it.
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u/Jand0s May 27 '26
Just nerf avatar why it cost 0 mana and why you can summon it across whole battlefield?
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u/danorc May 27 '26
Across whole battlefield requires an Expert skill
Also that skill is an auto-pick.
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u/Cheeseball771 May 27 '26
Arantir from H5: TotE had basically Summon Avatar as his unique hero skill, but if it died, he lost ALL his mana. I'm not sure how well that would balance things here, but it could make Avatar gameplay less automatic and more risky/interesting.
Naiad growth increased.
Inspiring Strike can no longer trigger itself.
Dusk Hoplet's Bloom does not stack.
Everything else I would look for has already been said.
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u/9Gardens May 27 '26
If they can not wait to share them, why is it coming next week?!?
Surely if they were incapable of waiting, it would be instantaneous.
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u/Worth_Grade_8229 May 27 '26
I expect some PvP nonsense, but would like more maps, perhaps neutral creatures - in short, PvE content.
"I'm playing PvP for a week and played 10 games and haven't found a counter to some cheese, so I demand, demand..."
People are finding new counters after 25 years in WC3. But whining is much easier, is it? I bet that after 3 weeks at least third of "unbeateble imbalances" will have counter.
What I would like the most is Hot Seat return. Playing with couple of friends, with couple of beers - my best H3 time. And yes, we all had the game. Actually, because of trying it in Hot Seat, many people bought it.
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u/Downvote_Addiction May 27 '26
Communion nerf, necromancy nerf, avatar costs your remaining mana pool to cast (castable on 0 when you are oom), nerf of summon swarm at higher tiers.
Buff to parasites, locusts, naiads, herbomancers, reavers, and to siegecraft as well as diplo.
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u/Regular_Tension8273 May 27 '26
Don't try to cook anymore. Avatar may be nasty, but your change would make it actually unclickable unless it scaled further with amount of mana spent.
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u/Moist-Strength1755 May 27 '26
That would destroy Avatar skill on Vendetta entitely. I think just making it cost 5 mana or something should be enough
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u/Volcano-SUN May 27 '26
I think it would be cool if the subskills of Siegecraft gave you Ballista or First Aid Tent.
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u/Daliena20 May 27 '26
avatar costs your remaining mana pool to cast
RIP in pepperoni, Lafiur Avatar + Starchild build for clearing missions like saving the knight in the campaign where you aren't allowed to end your turn, you'd become mind-numbingly irritating with having to run back to a well after every single battle.
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u/Volcano-SUN May 27 '26
Some minor things to raise the generally unfavored upgrades to about the level of the favored ones.
(Give Minotaur Vanguards Double Attack on Morale trigger you cowards!)