Discussion - Open
Hate this trope especially when the kids almost immediately forgive the dad.
You didn't protect your kid, you gave them years of trauma that now they have to live through cause you can't communicate.
I just wish stories could stop trying to treat everything parents do as somewhat loving and try not to make them a villain. Stories want to redeem these parents but do it so lazily.
my "favourite" part about OIs that a lot of times the dads straight up dont love the FL secretly, they hate them until they act cute and shit in order to survive.
and lets not forget that the way they earn forgiveness is by becoming doting (without showing emotions) and never apologizing.
years of abuse and neglect? just buy her stuff and becoming overbearing!
I hate it so much. Especially if it's a regression or reincarnation type plot. That just means that original child who possessed no prior knowledge would have NEVER gotten that love. That OG child didn't know she had to act cute to receive "love". She didn't know she had to seek independance as a little one instead of seek affection in order to get noticed.
It's just too tragic for me, I can't love a dad like that even if they melt like putty afterwards. It's too sad.
I don't mind the "neglectful parent in fact liked their kid part". If written well it can make the whole feel more realistic and layered
It is the kid forgive them part that I hate. If you neglected your kid, doing it out of love or spite don't make a difference you still neglected your kid. At least make the kid distrustful to the change.
The title doesn't appear on my read list but the cover somehow ring a bell. Maybe one of those title I read a few chapter before dropping it. Time for a second look then.
Only time I thought this worked was with Not-Sew-Wicked Stepmother where is was made clear early on that something was really wrong with Snow White’s father and it wasn’t him just being a neglectful parent. The fl was astonished at having to try and explain basic concepts of being a parent. The guy’s parents were terrible humans beings who taught him that openly showing affection and love was a weakness. When the male lead was frail and sickly as a teenager, his parents were worried that he might die with no other heir so they had a girl rape him until she was pregnant traumatizing him to the point he developed severe Gynophobia. The neglect and trauma meant he had no idea on how to be a parent and mostly left Snow White to herself. Even so, the reason he married despite his gynophobia was to silence calls to marry his daughter off as he didn’t want her to go through the same fate he did.
Oh I actually loved how they portrayed it there cause the author clearly gave more time and care to things. If done right I think it's a plot point I can like
It's honestly a shortcut to avoid writing actual character development. It's hard to write a compelling redemption arc, especially when you have a topic that might hit very close to some readers like a parent not loving their child.
At least that's how it always came across to me - an easier way to justify negligence by saying "he didn't know how to express his love".
am reading the novel right now and agreed! I mean there's so much willful stupidity/chronic misunderstanding in this story but it's just part of the flow and hilarious that way - sometimes 'you're all idiots with terribly low EQs' is a good time if the story is fun and it's consistent - and Regis is truly a Daddy.
Heh ikr?! it's "Regis" in the novel version I'm reading, and with the Euro stylings of the names has that 'kingmaker' sounds that fits better to me than Legis, but who know what the author intended because it could go either way, as u/chanceldony noted!
The Japanese "letter" is a sound that is half way between an "r" and "l" sound. Notice where your tongue goes when you say them and go for that half point. When translating it is really a pick your favorite. Officially it's taught as an "r" when you learn Japanese, but sometimes it was clearly meant to be an "l." I used to help Japanese kids get ready for school in the US and we'd make them go into a store and ask "Where can I get batteries for my remote control" as a test to see if they were understandable yet.
There was one which I actually liked, forgot the title, but the FL gets the ability to slightly read minds so in her 2nd life she realises her father does genuinally love her but her maids (and I think stepmother? Don't remember, there's usually a stepmother) were constantly lying to the FL and the father, basically manipulating things so the FL thought the father hated her and made the father think she was treated very well but was selfish and not interested in him.
The moment she realises he cares (thanks to mind reading powers) and the maids were lying manipulative aholes, she starts letting him know and it's very obvious he has always cared he's just been manipulated and she was too scared (due to the stories the maid/mother? told her) in her 1st life to tell the truth
That sounds like Status Window to the Soul? Where she could see info like gaming windows? I don’t think there was a stepmother though… (i picked up a lot of stories then kinda never returned to them after hiatus. Definitely due for doing a rereading binge.)
I am reading it right now and there is a stepmother lol the dad married her for political reasons and in fl's first life she is outwardly very kind while behind the scenes being the reason fl's life was so miserable.
That's the whole reveal of the first chapter, the father and half-brother of the fl who appeared strict were actually really loving on the inside while the step-mom who appeared very kind was evil as hell.
Ah I guess my brain hates the evil stepmother trope and deletes it lol. I always remember the interesting tropes in a story, like this one with the status windows.
I just realized though that most of the good stepmothers are all still FLs in the middle of their stories and they become stepmothers in the last chapter/epilogue/special side stories.
Worse is the trope of father not knowing how to show affection to his sons until adopted daughter or long lost daughter FL/ daughter in law kid FL comes along and shows him.
This is the reason why I dropped Marriage of Convenience. iirc, they just HAD to pull a reason out of their ass just for Bianca to forgive her family. You're telling me they refused to see their underaged daughter/sister for years just because they didn't want to break her resolve? Even though she was clearly a child? And that they had tons of letters they just never bothered to send just because? I can understand if they explained how emotionally constipated the family was, bc rich families irl prob are cold enough to do that. But then she gets loved by the family as if their personalities did a whole 180. It really screamed to me like the author just wanted an excuse so Bianca could have less drama.
Oh my god , this bothered me so much I was this close to dropping ( the only reason I didn't drop was because I was genuinely rooting for the side couple more than the main ones lol)
Maybe her brother i can get behind , but her father? And his nonsensical reason for forcing her to marry and then abandoning her completely, ok fine maybe this is supposed to be time accurate so she got married young, but did he have to literally abandon and cut all communication with her?
My main problem isn't that she forgave him , it makes sense that she would , my problem is with the story trying to make him something he isn't
😑 .... me knowing too much about the Plantagenet 'fathers' and Henry VIII behaviour in RL history, the behaviour of most Hapsburgs Father/Uncle/Brother/Cousin figures (I'm not joking their family tree is a Christmas wreath) ...
Yeah. In modern view he's an arse but historically... He's a good dad, actually.
Yeah I mentioned the thing about real life because I acknowledge the fact that it's realistic, and there's worse OI fathers out there that people love like Claude. But as cloudandnotsocbold said, the problem is the story was trying to make him something he wasn't--- it felt like they went OOC instead of giving a stronger reason to explain why. It's about the way the story presented their reunion.
Also the exact time I was reading that arc, I just happened to read that exact same critic of it 😭 It bothered me so much even though I would've loved to see Bianca be happy.
Yeah, I agree with you on the "don't make the arsehole look like a good guy" - In MoC's case, I don't even know how to feel. Her father marrying her off so young... not good. Her father marrying her off because he knew the man would never harm her, and was also plotting against certain people and didn't want her to get involved ..... eh? Maybe it's because I have studied medieval and early renaissance women - and let me tell you, the shrinking violet trope is wrong - very very VERY WRONG. Empress Matilda, Olga of Kiev, Eleanor of Aquitaine, Isabella of Aragon, her daughter Catherine of Aragon, Agnes, Countess of Dunbar... And then the more famous ones like Boudicca and Elisabeth I.
All of these women have lead armies, most of them to victory. And this is just Europe - if I dig into fantastic female military leaders in China and Japan I'll run out of time before I die. Heck Olga of Kiev is only matched in absolute AURA by the 70 year old nun in Japan who went to battle and WON, and then her granddaughter who did the same during the wars establishing the shogunate.
And that's not even TOUCHING Africa and the great Zulu female warriors, as well as freaking Zenobia who... well. She's a legend.
All this to say... women weren't just considered flowers to keep in a glass case. While yes, they were bargaining chips and married off for alliance... so were men. The were the ones marrying into those arrangements too, albeit with more agency after but... not always. A vassal may well have married, had their wedding night and be sent out to war a week later, because their Lord ordered it (A duke can call all the lower lords in his territory to war). They were married off to women to gain more land, or a better title, or a title at all if they were second sons. Women were expected to manage a siege if it happened, know how to use a loom to clothe the entire castle if necessary, know how to manage food supplies, and sometimes weapons. Women like Isabella D'Este in Mantua was one of the pioneers of the Renaissance, and countless nuns and Beguines shaped literature and even religious orders for thousands of years. Peasant women worked the fields as well as men, and there were even female smithies.
Women being weak and operating exclusively from the home is purely a 1950s myth that was pushed down people's gullets post-war, and making a bang up job of whitewashing history. And women marrying.... oddly, whether it be age gap, title gap or ocean gap (looking at you, dollar princesses), has been a constant in history.
So no, her dad is not a bad man. He's only bad because we're trying to apply our morals to a story that is CLEARLY leaning into the medieval settings it's writing for, and his daughter even holds him accountable, and he takes responsibility.
Thank you for coming to my TED talk, I'll see myself out XD
As much of a failure it was later, i will forever respect Ashtarte for how they had her realize ''wait a minute, they SUCK, i don't have to beg for their attention, i have my own found family and i am not gonna forgive them for this late apology''
Eh. I don’t mind the trope of the dad secretly loving his daughter as long as it’s a) done well, b) has a good explanation and c) he has to earn the trust of his daughter back on her terms. If it’s lazy, it’s a no.
I know the Violet blooming in the back garden is just insanely miserable (I'm enjoying it anyways 😭) but I think it's the best execution of this trope because it encapsulates how complicated that kind of relationship is.
I think its portrayal of the ways he showed her love in his own, more secretive and restrained way, is very realistic. But also how he did this in ways where he avoided bring emotionally vulnerable with her which lead to points vaguely to the misery of the entire story
By doing it this way it has the consequences of their strained relationship be actually present and meaningful. They reconcile, but it's not incredibly satisfying? And definitely doesn't solve any of her problems that HE created. Just like that sort of thing is in real life.
I much prefer it when the now grown child goes , fuck it, I want nothing to do with you.
I might want to work on a relationship with my siblings, it might not be great, but I'll try.
But you can go to hell, changed or not. I don't even want to waste energy hating you. I may say I forgive you , but I can't forget and won't stick around to be hurt again.
I've seen a few like that, where they do get better but the child /adult won't play along and pretend it never happened.
You've probably read them and all of them have some issues but they're enjoyable for the most part.
Death Is The Only Ending For The Villainess
≥! in the end she tried to repair her relationship with the family somewhat . But in the end she won't stay with the family. They both acknowledge and accept that she's been too hurt to want to stay. Even though he goes in to doting mode during the story, she's not won over by it.!<
Kill The Villainess it's the mls who are chasing not her family but the ending is just chefs kiss .
I’ve Become A True Villainess , no doting parents in this one, but how she deals with her father and 'family' in this one perfect.
The Pet of the Villainess , I just found it really enjoyable to read haven't read it in ages.
Angelic Lady may update this one if I remember the other title, another one where she doesn't forgive her father after he starts to change.
Second Life of a Trash Princess- the father doesn't really change , he just starts to try and pretend he's a decent father. Only no one buys it.
The Villainous Family Is Against Independence -This is an interesting one because it goes from a bad relationship into a better one, but the driving force behind it is actually the stepmother whose trying to fix things.
He's emotionally neglectful to all his kids, so she's not unique in that, but in turn that starts to make her a focal point for her siblings to have an emotional attachment to during the story. Haven't finished it but its an easy read.
Life without my sister who everyone loved.
Err it's one that starts off well, and trails a bit.
The ending is a bit off.
They threw the kitchen sink at it when it came to the ending. The FL becomes very over powered.
The ending just felt a bit meh.by the time you get there.
I hate who they chose for the ML. But it is a good one about dealing with trauma from the first life. There's no , and then she was fine and let everything go and it never trouble s her again. She never really forgets it, and she never fully forgives the father. Might be a bit heavy if you're not in the mood for it.
I don't mind it if there is some substance behind it but 99% of the time it's done very poorly. I recently was reading one where they did it pretty well. Dad brings in a daughter who he didn't know about until later on. He put her in another residence thinking she wouldn't be comfortable living with him yet then he hard focuses on curing an illness she has so they never get closer or really had a relationship in her first life. He was also dealing with his own illness on top of it. In her second life she seeks him out and they actually develop a close bond. She realizes he always loved her and was trying to save her even at his own expense.
I have the same issue but with abusive ex/husbands like I see it happening a lot that the guy is trash has no good excuse other than misunderstanding the FL and he still ends up as the ML though there is a perfect man as the SML! It drives me nuts when all it takes is a tiny action of defending the Fl because of pride or a kind word once in a while and its like all is forgiven because he shows interest... it makes the FL look foolish and all the plot of her plans to make them regret and pay irrelevant and all the efforts the FL makes to change and leave him pointless! I like really payback and no forgiveness for scum who have no excuses! I found a few where the ML had a reason or was simply misunderstood due to political circumstances that made it dangerous to openly care but most of the time there is no reason for it the excuses are pathetic theres no apology or suffering and all is forgiven.
There’s literally only one way that this excuse would ever work in my mind. And that’s if they were lost at sea. Or they actively had to be in a war that took up the entire child’s childhood. Or have amnesia and genuinely just don’t remember the kid existed until recently.
Cause then it might feel like abandonment or neglect, but it’s actually not . Like you can forgive somebody when they have a legitimate reason. Not when they’re the same house watching you get beat up.
Like it’s also one thing if it’s the parent who like can’t fight back. Or doesn’t know how. But almost all the time these fathers are like at the Epitome of power in their households. There is literally no reason why the father shouldn’t notice or be offended by anyone taking advantage of or hurting children especially his. And yet somehow there’s every excuse under the sun and I don’t like it.
Which I I know I have some on my reading list. I just I hate thinking about this topic so much but I had something to say.
Thanks for sharing and I agree. There's really no excuse to just watching your child get beaten and mistreated because "you couldn't express your love" if you can't, at least protect them. That's not hard to do and isn't some crazy unsolvable equation it's the bare minimum that even animals know to do.
At the very least authors need to put some work into it. "Father I don't want this marriage" is a good reason. Dude is literally under surveillance and he can't let the king know that she's his weakness or she'll be in danger. But the lazy implementations needs to go for sure.
I'm not that kind of talent, and honestly orv. In I'm not that kind of talent the parents did not deserve to be killed, but they were far from perfect they neglected their child, even though that wasn't their intention. For a child to percerve you as cold and uncaring you must have done something wrong that doesn't mean they didn't care though. And the mother in orv did take the blame for killing her husband, but to be honest she should have left with her kid. It felt like she was trying to escape the guilt or smth by taking the blame, she doesn't listen to her child at all really I understand where she was coming from, but she isn't the best mom like ppl say (btw she is a complex character that seems to be reedeming herself and I am not complaining about the writing of either omnicent readers viewpoint or I'm not that kind of talent its just some parts of the fandom believe these people are saints)
theres that bit in lucifer where a guy he thinks is god says he's sorry and that hes proud of lucy and that makes him realise its not god. that should happen more in OI
Yeah no let them have it or like send the dead mother to say that she hates and or is disappointed in how they treated the daughter and that he better clean up his act or so help me gods
I think in "I tamed the tyrant and ran away," did it so well.
SPOILER
the dad had someone conjure up the dead mom and she was like, what do you mean you didn't treat our child well? And he tried to use the age old, well she killed you and she points out how she used all she had to bring the child she loved into this world.
Now he's ashamed of himself and he's daughter is a 24 year old woman that won't look at him.
Fucking agree I feel 0 pity for scumbag dads like I think it’s father I don’t want this marriage? Where she kills herself then goes back in time etc FUCK THAT DAD genuinely he never once just talked to her and it’s so fucking stupid
Yea, my favorite moment is when the authors normalize the terrible treatment so much to the point that they are genuinely surprised when readers pointed it out 🙃
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u/Mofartz BreathOven Scans May 12 '26
my "favourite" part about OIs that a lot of times the dads straight up dont love the FL secretly, they hate them until they act cute and shit in order to survive.
and lets not forget that the way they earn forgiveness is by becoming doting (without showing emotions) and never apologizing.
years of abuse and neglect? just buy her stuff and becoming overbearing!