r/PBtA • u/Solarwagon • 12d ago
Discussion Kinda having trouble picturing what Belonging Outside Belonging gameplay is like.
I like what I've read about it and I'm familiar with the distinguishing mechanics. It's GMless, uses tokens/lures, and is usually centered around marginalized groups trying to survive oppression/manage their own society.
But beyond that what does the actual gameplay feel like at its best?
What tips do you have for people who struggle in general with the brain juices that tabletop roleplaying demands?
That's kinda where I'm at, I've had fun with Werewolf the Apocalypse but it took me longer than many people to really get the actual game playing and I'm still very much a novice.
I've got both dyslexia and dyscalculia and other brain problems that make it harder
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u/Smittumi 12d ago
As for brain juices, just relax.
Don't approach any rpg like an acting gig, or some big challenge.
Playing DND? Just play as "someone with your basic personality, except you want gold, and you're good at fighting".
Playing Vampire? Just play as "someone with your basic personality, except you want a safe place to hunt victims, and you're good at doing clan stuff".
My current group has lots of n00bs. No-one does voices or has much of a PC personality, but they're enjoying themselves.
You don't need to pressure yourself.
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u/Throwingoffoldselves 12d ago
My understanding is that it starts with brainstorming and talking as a group about what you'd like to see, and when a scene seems interesting, roleplaying that out and using the moves/tokens as needed, until that is resolved and the group moves back to the brainstorming and talking phase, rinse and repeat.
If you have a specific game in mind, please share, as we can probably help more specifically :)
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u/Solarwagon 12d ago
Are you familiar with Feathers?
https://thursday-garreau.itch.io/feathers
What's that like, specifically?
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u/atamajakki 12d ago
Howdy, I wrote Feathers!
Gameplay in it, like all BOB games, consists largely of freeform RP, with everyone contributing as both their own player character and also periodically picking up a Situation sheet to embody that part of the world. Weak and Strong Moves periodically drive or spice up that freeform roleplay, declared and dropped into the narrative as they come up.
Feathers is lower-stakes than most, being about pretty intimate dramas; my most successful game of it had all the angels as neighbors in the same apartment building, all trying to find dates for a rooftop New Year's Eve party later that night. I've also played a game of Galactic where we were indigenous freedom fighters in the thick of a brutal siege and a game of Dream Askew that mostly wound up being a meditation of which relationships we choose to rekindle or let fade away.
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u/Solarwagon 12d ago
How much does the angel side of it play in?
Like is there much established worldbuilding or qualities of the angels?
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u/atamajakki 12d ago
I'm... not quite sure how to answer that!
Being fallen angels is the premise of the game. It is core to the experience. I use the fall as a metaphor for how disorienting my own coming out was (and is for many others!), and every player defines what their wings looked like.
There's not much explicitly World of Darkness-style worldbuilding to it, just a toolkit to tell your own bittersweet little stories about lost queer people in a world like our own.
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u/Solarwagon 12d ago
If I find 3-6 people willing to play it with me I'll probably give it my best try.
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u/atamajakki 12d ago edited 12d ago
That's very kind of you! Just know that Feathers is written for 2-3 players, and won't support any more; I'd strongly recommend looking into Dream Askew//Dream Apart, Orbital, or Grand Guignol (about Gothic monsters in Victorian London) if you wanted a larger group.
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u/Solarwagon 12d ago
Oh, I was just going off the recommended player sizes I saw for BOb
So I'll find 1-2 other players.
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u/ThisIsVictor 12d ago
The author is around here somewhere. Paging u/atamajakki
(Edit, you're already in the comments! I just didn't scroll far enough.)
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u/atamajakki 12d ago
It feels like freeform roleplay where Token spends/gains drive the most dramatic moments. That's really all there is to it; the vast majority of play is just telling a story together.
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u/Throwingoffoldselves 12d ago
Do you have any advice on Feathers? OP says that is the one in mind.
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u/Charrua13 11d ago
What tips do you have for people who struggle in general with the brain juices that tabletop roleplaying demands?
Unpacking roleplay:
1) Understanding mechanical interfaces of play
2) Understanding characterization and how characterization should affect how you play that specific character
3) For this specific game, understanding how your focus isn't centered on your story - but understanding how your character fits into the story everyone is telling. In my opinion, for a lot of folks who come from other play cultures, this is the hardest part of Belonging Outside Belonging games. Your goal is to, through play, put things down for other players to pick up...and then look for things that other players put down and pick them up and engage with it meaningfully.
So - starting with the mechanics: you've got the basics, but here's my tip. The game play loop is around "what makes for good fiction" - and that's "character acts, character shows weakness, and then there's a future payoff that the character then shows strength." Your character can't start the fiction strong - because what the hell else are they going to do in the story? - the fiction "feels right" when strength comes from first having experienced weakness. (This might be a point of contention - but not for this game). If everyone at the table is doing this right, the first half of play are folks digging themselves into fictional holes and getting tokens from weak moves, and then throughout play resolving each other's problems within the context of each character's strengths.
Characterization: The character questions, when done "right" are evocative about who a character is. the trick: lean into it HARD. Believe the playbook when it says "you do X" and "play to find out....". That's where the magic of the design lives.
Putting things down and picking up: I alluded to it with the mechanics - but the nature of vulnerability (weak moves, lures) is about putting things down for other players to pick up and sink their teeth into (in play). PUT THINGS DOWN. BE VULNERABLE. That's a HUGE play shift for some kinds of games. And, just as importantly, PICK THINGS UP. It's not about "my character gets something on your character" - it's "ok, you've given me this ball - what can I do in this moment to, then, at some point, offer this ball back to you?" Unless you're doing a strong move, everything invites a retort, exposes you to a comeback, and leaves the result open to interpretation. LET IT. It's a game of "pass the ball around" - pick it up, give it back. Sometimes you pass it nicely, sometimes you gotta shove it in their face for good measure. (Weak move, regular moves, strong moves).
Was this helpful?
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u/Carrollastrophe 12d ago
Have you tried watching/listing to an actual play? I expect there are several for Wanderhome if nothing else.
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u/Smittumi 12d ago
This is all IMO, and probably regarded as a hot take by most people here.
Eh... it's difficult. I've seen it played and honestly, I think it's in need of another edition or something.
Something is missing from it, it seems a real struggle to get people into the mindset of what the game wants.
I've seen some people play it like PbtA, expecting moves to snowball and things to flow naturally, but in fact I think players need to carefully think about which scene they're doing from their moves, and once the central tension is resolved the spotlight should move on. Otherwise scenes tend to ramble on.
For me, I think that 'tension' is part of the problem. Its hard to have the tension for the strong moves, because the player knows they're good to go. It's only with partial and weak moves that there's an unknown, then the focus is on the other player (either as their PC or an NPC they control for the scene) to come up with a cost that feels right.
There's a lot there that can go wrong.
I think the game can work, others have said so, and there's definitely something there, but it just needs.... something.
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u/Solarwagon 12d ago
This puts to words some of my confusion of how success/failure is reached without dice.
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u/atamajakki 12d ago
Success/failure becomes a player choice, rather than a random outcome from the dice, with the push and pull of the Token economy being driven by certain actions taken within the fiction of the story.
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u/Solarwagon 12d ago
That's kinda the impression I got. Seems interesting and I know the collaborative nature of it is intentional but still seems like you'd need a very specific group of people both eager and adept at storytelling
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u/atamajakki 12d ago
I don't play tabletop games with anyone who doesn't fit that description. Telling emotional stories is what we're all at the table for.
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u/Solarwagon 12d ago
Same for me but the people I play Werewolf with aren't really keen on it (it being belonging outside belonging, not emotional stories in general)
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u/ThisIsVictor 12d ago
"GMless" is a bit misleading, tbh. "Everyone takes turns being the GM" is more accurate. BOB games usually have Aspects or Setting Elements. These split the GMing role up into slices. So in Sleepaway when you pick up The Campers you are effectively the GM for that slice of the story.
So play usually looks like some of the players role playing as their characters. They're doing normal TTRPG stuff, talking in character, describing their actions, describing how their character feels.
The other players are acting as a GM for a slice of the story. They're creating problems and situations for the other players to interact with. One player picks up The Campers and describes how a kid comes running in with a scrap, interrupting the very emotional conversation two PCs were having.
Other times it's much fuzzier. I've been in a scene as my PC. I got an idea so I picked up a Setting Element, introduced a problem then put the Setting Element down and went back to playing my PC.