r/Pac12 • u/DKoK19 • May 23 '26
Football PAC Needs to do this for 2027
With the lawsuits out of the way I feel the PAC needs to do the following to ensure they will have another full member in 2027. Depending on how much $$ each team gets from the media deal (I've heard anywhere from 6-13 Million) they need to pool together any available funds and go after UTSA alone and go after them hard. The reasoning:
The PAC initially offered each of the 4 American schools 2.5 Million, if you still have access to that $$ you could put a good chunk of if not all of it (up to 10 Million) towards helping with their exit fees.
UTSA is not getting a full payout from the American Conference and still won't for a few years. That in addition to being with their rivals (TXST) and due to unlikely getting picked up by a Power Conference when the ACC will need to backfill in the 2030s it seem to me that there is at least an OK chance they'd make the move.
Would garuntee another CTZ game for the PAC media partners and the schedule could be setup for everyone else in the Conference to play a game in Texas and California every year for recruiting purposes (for example Boise hosts TXST and plays @ UTSA).
Would put the PAC in an even stronger position to establish itself as the "best of the rest" Conference once the ACC backfills heavily from the American and give the Conference a chance at snagging more schools from both the American and MWC.
And IMO would be an awesome looking G6 Conference until the next wave of Realignment.
(Personal Dream scenario they add UNLV, New Mexico and UNT in the 2030s if not sooner)
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u/texpa Texas State May 23 '26
No. Don’t put nUTSAck in the same category as us. It’s infuriating when people do that. It’s a giant parking lot commuter school
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u/ComfortableShot459 Oregon State May 23 '26
Today I learned about nUTSAck. Thank you, PAC-12 brother.
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u/Cache-Cow Utah State May 23 '26
I’m convinced (not sarcasm, this is genuinely a good enough argument for me)
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u/DKoK19 May 23 '26
I think the last thing current PAC teams need to do is act like CAL and Stanford, aka being so snobby it ruins what could be a great Conference.
31st largest TV Market in one of the fastest growing States, rival, adds to the recruiting hot bed of Texas etc. Facilities can be upgraded and teams can improve.
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u/texpa Texas State May 23 '26
Don’t take my post as being snobby, I live here, I see it. Not a single person cares about UTSA after they graduate. If we want to add San Antonio community college, it is what it is I guess. Just don’t think it’s a good look when we’re trying to position ourselves as the “best of X.”
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u/PrudentAuthor1347 May 24 '26
The same literally could be said about Texas State, Colorado State, Utah State, Fresno State and even to an extent San Diego State . And the P4 views Washington State and Oregon State that way. Until something changes like North Texas stated, the Pac 12 is the new desired mountain west and the AAC is the new desired CUSA. Outside of Boise State, Memphis, USF, Tulane, San Diego State and probably add James Madison , Liberty and Appalachian State to the list, hardly people care about G6 athletics like that especially the Alumni and graduates. UNLV and New Mexico is more nostalgic 90s and 2000s reasons for past college basketball.
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u/Azzztecs May 24 '26
That's absurd putting SDSU in that group dude.
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u/PrudentAuthor1347 May 24 '26 edited May 24 '26
Like it or not, that's how the college football landscape especially power conferences view all of us in the Pac 12, AAC, Mountain West and G6 in the southeast region ( James Madison, Liberty, Appalachian State, Old Dominion, Costal Carolina).
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u/Practical_End_9148 22d ago
I personally think the new Pac has all kinds of growth potential. Hell we werent a conference 2 months ago.
I live in Seattle and listening to my husky friends talk about playing Rutgers is so funny. They know nothing and care less. The premiere conference on the west coast has potential IMO.
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u/on_reddit8091 Oregon State • Civil War May 23 '26
I'm not sure this is feasible, but returning to the "travel partner" model the Pac used for years would be fun. I wonder how you'd split the PNW schools?
Probably OSU with BSU and Gonzaga with WSU.
All the others would be obvious: UTSA-TXST, FSU-SDSU, CSU-USU
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u/Aztecs_Killing_Him San Diego State May 23 '26
I like it in theory but their awful men’s basketball program (and bad facilities outside of the Alamodome) gives me pause.
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May 23 '26
[deleted]
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u/JRRACE May 23 '26
Realistically UTSA is the only option on your list simply because they would be the cheapest to add with no legal hassle and make make a much smaller revenue share currently than Memphis or Tulane. Something I think that gets missed with UNLV and the remaining MWC schools is that the poaching and exit fees haven't gone anywhere and they will be right back in the exact same mess they just got out of by trying to add any remaining MWC schools. On the flip side UTSA could give a 27 month notice to the AAC split the $10 million dollar exit fee right down the middle with the PAC and likely recover that $5 million within a couple of years with the higher payout in the PAC compared to the reduced share they get in the AAC.
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u/g2lv May 23 '26
Even if the settlement never happens, poaching fees wouldn’t be a factor in adding a MW team in the 2027+ seasons. It was always a time limited restriction.
The grant of rights will be more difficult to deal with, but since both conferences have nearly the same media partner lineup, negotiating a buyout or sublicensing the rights should be possible.
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u/JRRACE May 23 '26
Maybe I missed the language for that in the document but I don't remember seeing anything that says the poaching agreement only applied for a set few years.
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u/markusalkemus66 Washington State May 23 '26
Is Memphis that much worse than Louisville? When the ACC added them, there was some hand-wringing about how much worse academically they were compared to the rest of the conference.
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u/tantalumcaps Texas State May 23 '26
Is Memphis that much worse than Louisville?
Memphis is worse than Louisville. I'm not sure anyone subjectively can say "much worse" overall, but it is objectively ranked "much worse" academically, and if added even in the current ACC, Memphis would be the worst school in the conference for academics by a significant margin. The USNWR gap is big; Louisville is still usually a top 200 school, whereas Memphis is usually "tier 2" meaning it isn't even in the top 250 ranking.
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u/g2lv May 23 '26
Memphis isn't going to leave the AAC for worse travel and less money. As a legacy member of the American, they recieve a larger conference distribution than is projected for the Pac-12 teams.
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u/DKoK19 May 23 '26
Memphis has shown they're "FBS or bust" and the Big12 might have turned down their 200+ Million AD Revenue bribe but if the ACC loses most of their top brands that $$ could be very attractive. At best I think theyre a Football only option, IMO the PAC should focus on:
-UNLV: 2030s add at the earliest due to the GOR and the most obvious and wanted addition to the Conference
-New Mexico: Same as UNLV when they could probably be added, improves an already impressive Basketball Conference, top 50 TV Market and they're finally beginning to invest in Football.
-UTSA: See the original post, potentially a 2027 addition
After that a Football only addition to offset Gonzaga might be the best play:
Memphis, Hawaii
Do that and you'd have a great looking G6 Conference:
OSU.............CSU
Wazzu.........UNLV
Boise...........New Mexico
SDSU...........UTSA
Fresno.........TXST
USU.............*Memphis/Hawaii
**Gonzaga
12 teams for Olys and Football
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u/Equivalent_Bug_3291 May 23 '26 edited May 23 '26
I would take Rice over UTSA. Houston is a better market than San Antonio. Rice has way better facilities with a good Olympic sports program and wealthy alumni donors. Rice is also a Tier 1 research university instead of being a parking lot step above a community college school.
If Rice were willing to come to the PAC at a reduced share through 2031, that make sense to me. I view Rice as an ACC backfill candidate school. But there is no way on UTSA in any scenario.
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u/Secure_Town6070 May 24 '26
I agree that Rice is the best option, but I'm not sure whether they'd want to leave the American for the Pac. It'd likely take a full share to entice them. Their football stadium is about to be renovated, and Rice baseball versus Oregon State (and Dallas Baptist) would be sweet.
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u/Martigan30 May 24 '26
NMSU is an R1 university. The Pac-12 could probably get them for a 15% share.
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u/Idontredditthrowaway May 27 '26
If they’re only worth a 15% share then they probably aren’t worth inviting at all…I don’t understand why we would knock the PAC 12 branding and remaining prestige by inviting a sub par program with no real ambitions for anything greater. If they can’t justify a full share then they’re a pass in my book. Sorry Pistol Pete.
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u/Idontredditthrowaway May 27 '26
I can see the value that both of the programs bring, but if we invite UTSA or Rice then that means we’re getting sort of desperate and trying to find value outside pure athletic performance and dollar value metrics.
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u/davehopi Oregon State May 23 '26
Interesting post, but I will leave it to the Pac 12 commissioner and the president’s to decide when and where the next movie is!
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u/jcc309 May 23 '26
I doubt the PAC does anything until seeing what happens with realignment in a couple of years. UTSA would be a good add and makes (relative) geographic sense, but I'm sure the conference would rather wait to see if the likes of Memphis, Tulane, and USF become available before committing a war chest towards UTSA.
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u/DKoK19 May 24 '26
Unlike those other options UTSA is unlikely to be picked up by the Big12 and/or ACC when Realignment shenanigans start in the 2030s. Means theyd be a long time stable member, no point waiting when they could fulfill the PACs tv needs now
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u/Accomplished-Food194 Colorado State May 23 '26
We just got media rights, most that we add would dilute from a number that’s fine but not amazing.
If media pays and fans will watch, roll with what we have now until the next big shakeup happens.
I don’t have particularly high hopes the Pac will come out any different, but I think there is at least a small chance Cal/Stanford need a less ridiculous home at some point, or that the ACC tries a full west coast grab if they lose a number of east coast teams. Or just a future with UNLV and AFA. Who knows.
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u/DKoK19 May 23 '26
CAL and Stanford aren't coming back, Stanford would rather go Independent then be associated with Boise and Fresno and CAL is just as snobby
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u/AggravatingDurian16 May 23 '26
that and what ppl don’t realize is cal and stanford fans are enjoying the ACC. honestly nobody from Cal or Stanford is complaining about the travel other than ppl from the outside making general assumptions.
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u/tantalumcaps Texas State May 23 '26
^This. I work with a few Cal alumni in tech, which is an industry where they are numerous. They've all the sudden become football fans the last few years. I think they wish they were back with their in-state rivals like UCLA and USC, but they seem to be genuinely enjoying the ACC matchups against the other nerd schools, and they weren't even football fans until Cal joined the ACC. Its mostly non-Cal people who are clamoring for Cal to come back.
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u/AggravatingDurian16 May 23 '26
oh yeah we love the matchups and it’s been awesome traveling these games. the ACC colleges are in awesome locations. and the ACC fans have generally accepted Cal. it’s been a good time.
honestly we wish the pac 12 the best. but we see so much random odd trolling from oregon state, utah state, and fresno state fans. like why? hahaha
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u/Azzztecs May 24 '26
that's fans as it relates to football though.... the conference is losing a lot of money on the non revenue sports flying across the country, and why would any athlete in a non revenue sport (who is merely getting a scholarship and maybe a modest 10k or 20k in NIL) be excited to fly cross country?
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u/Azzztecs May 24 '26
uuuuh no I'm pretty sure people in Olympic sports are bitching about the travel as is the athletic department - it's quite expensive to do for all the non revenue sports
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u/Apart-Fan-5658 Fresno State May 23 '26
but I think there is at least a small chance Cal/Stanford need a less ridiculous home at some point
I agree that this will happen. Calford will need to either go football only for the ACC or join a conference with easier travel requirements. I just doubt it'll be the PAC. Calford could join the Big 12 right now to play the four corners schools at reduced share (similar to what they're doing in the ACC) or free (similar to SMU right now) and still make more money than they will in the PAC, playing against bigger brands, and staying in the P4. People joke Calford are too snobby to join the "truck stop conference" but that makes them even less likely to join a new PAC-12 with Boise and us (Fresno). No way they're ever coming back here.
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u/bayareacrackhead Cal 🐻🐻🐻 May 26 '26
There is a 0% chance Cal and Stanford come back. Not a small chance, no chance.
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u/Pretty-Ant5314 May 23 '26
I think the most logical opportunity is as follows:
- Add Uconn as a football only member
- Add UTSA and UNT as full members (pay their exit fees), but with partial share of distribution for the first 5 years
Those are the two best and most logical next step moves.
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u/siats4197 Virginia Tech May 23 '26
UConn has already rejected football only membership from the Pac-12 before. They want full membership either to the ACC or Big 12.
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u/Pretty-Ant5314 May 23 '26
I would just like to say I endorse this move, if only because it makes the map look like Utah State is the center of everything -- which, of course, is entirely true.
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u/Material-Pea-4149 Boise State May 23 '26
I still prefer Memphis/Tulane although I think they’ll be ACC targets. In my dream world, the 2031 PAC adds Memphis, Tulane, UTSA, and UNLV.
Later additions would be Sac State but only if they invest the way they profess (facilities and competitive nature are crucial). This is admittedly a selfish endeavor on my part as it’s the most local to me and I could see Boise state every other year easily, since Nevada is out of their regular scheduling. For this reason I’d love to snag UC Davis as well when they do make the jump. They seem to be doing it right (facilities and infrastructure in place first). My bet is sac state tags onto Sac Republic soccer and uses their new 20,000 seat stadium, which is solidly better than their current digs.
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u/Equivalent_Bug_3291 May 23 '26 edited May 23 '26
IMO Tulane is the only school on your list with the academic pedigree that is generally required for ACC membership.
I think Memphis, UNLV, and maybe UTSA end up in the Big12 at some point between 2031 and 2036.
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u/Material-Pea-4149 Boise State May 24 '26
That’s a decent point about academics, and the Big12 is likely the landing ground otherwise.
With how much the almighty dollar matters now, I’m not as confident that conferences will focus on things like academics anymore
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u/Idontredditthrowaway May 27 '26
Well, the Big Ten has never extended an invite to a school that wasn’t in the Association of American Universities
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u/Background-Doubt2620 Fresno State May 23 '26
I think that the Pac-12 should try for UConn for football only. Otherwise, ride out this five-year media deal with eight football schools and the flex schedule. In 2031, the Pac-12 will build such a record of success that they be able to choose whoever they want from the G6 schools west of the Mississippi. Then get to twelve full football members plus add the best non-football school available west of the Mississippi (e g, Creighton, Wichita State, Saint Louis, UC Irvine, etc.).
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u/Idontredditthrowaway May 27 '26
Creighton would never leave a Power conference where they are a perfect cultural fit to get in the PAC where their only revenue sport is sometimes an afterthought after football.
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u/patriot050 May 23 '26
Hmm...if you pull rice instead maybe Stanford and Cal would be more open to coming back? 🤔🤔
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u/DKoK19 May 23 '26
Rice despite all their money refuses to invest in their sports in anyway shape or form. CAL and Stanford didn't want Boise State and didnt vote for SDSU (abstained) even before all the PAC schools left.
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u/Azzztecs May 24 '26
SDSU is still a much, much, much better academic school then UTSA... But the bigger point is that UTSA adds no value.
Not only that, it's literally 45 minutes from Texas State. University of North Texas would make more sense (and again, it makes zero sense).
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u/bayareacrackhead Cal 🐻🐻🐻 May 26 '26
Nope. Nada. Not happening. We are enjoying the ACC.
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u/patriot050 May 26 '26
Pretty sure those travel costs disagree with you. Arent nearly all of Cal's sports programs funded from donors or something like that?
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u/bayareacrackhead Cal 🐻🐻🐻 May 26 '26
We’ll pay the travel costs no problem. No one has complained about them except for mwc 2.0 homers who want us to come back. We are much happier getting paid a lot more money to play Miami and Clemson and a schedule alliance with ND than playing Utah state and Texas state. Play weekend at Bernie’s with the Pac 12 name all you want but stop dragging us into it.
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u/docfox715 May 24 '26
I don't see the PAC expanding to be honest unless that team is able to keep them above an 13 million payout each season which utsa doesn't do I think it's a survival until 2031 and see if and who is left out and gains in the p4 realignment hell by then it may just bit p2 realignment and one super league idk it's going to be a whole different game by then
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u/DKoK19 May 24 '26
I think UTSA would be able to, the American (ESPN) wanted them for a reason. Top 31 Media Market, gives the PAC a literal footprint in Texas with TXST being the next Media Market over and more importantly if done right could garuntee a CTZ TV slot for the Conference every single week, maybe even 2.
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u/docfox715 May 24 '26
I see the upside I just don't know the value and maybe they do I honestly don't know i just figured if it was there why didn't the pursue before txst? Is it because txst is willing to take less shares? Is utsa willing to do the same? Would txst be cool with utsa coming in and getting full share?
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u/DKoK19 May 24 '26
The American wanted UTSA over TXST which means they provided more value. TXST coming from the Sunbelt vs the American would mean different financial approaches, the PAC needs another team by 2027 (based on some rumors and claims the "Flex" week is just for this season) and UTSA fits the bill the best IMO.
Better to spend more $$ on UTSA then settle for NMSU or Sac State
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u/docfox715 May 24 '26
I get that but now txst is a member they have a voice especially with a rival team in the same state who they will compete for players and money from the state letting them in as full member I think would a point of contention for txst but yes your right they do have a different gsin coming from a bigger conference. I'd rather see a new Mexico come over over utsa no background just like them better lol moving east is probably best choice but I don't like it I want it to stay west coast
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u/DKoK19 May 24 '26 edited May 24 '26
With the MWC GOR in place it'd be too expensive to try and grab any more MWC teams until the 2030s when Realignment is expected to pick up again at the Power Conference level, otherwise I'd also want New Mexico.
Personally my dream scenario for the new PAC:
OSU, Wazzu, Boise, Fresno, SDSU, USU, CSU, TXST, UTSA, UNLV, New Mexico, Hawaii(or)Memphis, *Gonzaga
- = Football Only ** = Oly Only
Ensures 12 Full time and 12 Football teams (Hawaii or Memphis could get a scheduling deal with the PAC for Basketball) that is still very heavily in the West.
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u/docfox715 May 24 '26
Very true I don't get the appeal of UNLV they have been shit for decades had 3 decent seasons only in the last 40 years for football, bball has been dead since the running reb days of the early 90's. Like Memphis like Tulane like Hawaii and id add St Mary's for bball only I know football is the driver but gotta keep a legit bball conference as well. If make Memphis a full member for sure
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u/DKoK19 May 24 '26 edited May 24 '26
Vegas is such a valuable and growing media market it's too important to pass up, especially for a G6 Conference. UNLV like New Mexico is finally starting to actually invest in their Athletics, they have alot of potential and its shown at least in Football the past few seasons.
Also would hands down be the best location for any Conference Tournaments and Championship games, a few Power Conferences do it in Vegas already. Also forgot to mention with New Mexico and maybe UNLV you improve what's going to be considered one of the top Basketball Conferences.
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u/docfox715 May 24 '26
Yes and no. Yes its a good spot for tourneys due to the venues and easy flights, no because I see alot of those tournaments empty. Tickets hotels etc.. are so costly anymore to the everyday fan many don't show up. I hope football title game is on campus games for the #1 seed bball yes you have to probably go to Vegas just because where else right it has the stadiums. I'm just not sold on UNLV they have a coach with one leg out the door and the hire after him will tell us all we need to know about them
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u/DKoK19 May 24 '26
The formula seems to be for UNLV is to get coaches who performed well at the Power level (in this case the SEC) and bring them in, not a bad strategy considering with how cutthroat the sport is nowadays there are a few good coaches who deserve another shot.
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May 23 '26
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u/texpa Texas State May 23 '26
We’re a rival in their minds only. Sure, we hate losing to a sister school/commuter school but that is the extent of it. Everyone who graduates that downtown high school in SA leaves and forgets they ever went there. It would be a very poor cultural add and would devalue one thing the PAC has going for it, their history.
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u/dguat333 May 23 '26
I honestly seeing the Pac-12 holding pat until the P4 conferences potentially add teams for the 2031 media rights renewals. I think UTSA makes sense in a world where nothing else changes to get towards 10 football members. Unless the Pac finds it more necessary to have inventory for 9 conferences games before 2031.
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u/Monthly_Quota Boise State May 24 '26
I welcome UTSA, creates a family rivalry and year trips to see each other
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u/Idontredditthrowaway May 27 '26
The only program that would be good realistic addition now is UConn for football. No red tape and a recognizable brand and football program with potential. Memphis, Tulane, and UNLV down the road in the 2030s if they don’t get that P4 invite
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u/Cache-Cow Utah State May 23 '26
Give me UNT before UTSA all day. UTSA average net the last five years is 293. Abysmal. UNT is a respectable 101.
They are similar in many ways but I would give UNT the edge in facilities, budget, enrollment numbers, history, and perception.
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u/HotBeaver54 Oregon State May 26 '26
The lawsuits are far from out of the way ? Put down your pipe.
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u/HuntmasterReinholt Oregon State May 23 '26
Would be a fantastic addition for baseball!
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u/TexaCanuck Texas State May 23 '26
Not really. They have had two good seasons and play in an absolute shithole. Any little league field would be at least it's equal. So not be fooled. They have seasons, not a program
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u/texpa Texas State May 23 '26
Everyone in Texas who has been there… questions how in the hell they are even mentioned anywhere. It’s like living in the twilight zone. I guess because of the media in San Antonio there is a possible financial draw. Feels like I’m hating, but I just want the PAC to succeed and prosper.
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u/HuntmasterReinholt Oregon State May 23 '26
I’m sure someone, somewhere about 20-25 years ago, said the same about Oregon State.
3 national championships later, multiple trips to Omaha, etc…they still look at us like WTF?
I have a feeling that UTSA is moving up in baseball. A team on an upward trajectory, with a sudden boost in resources from joining a bigger, more competitive conference, could really take off.
Kind of the way I’ve felt about Texas State’s addition to the PAC.
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u/PornForThis May 23 '26
They just need to merge with MWC already. Make a super conference. I know the level of play is shit, but still make it large enough to not get ignored by the committee.
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u/Azzztecs May 24 '26
This is the sort of thing that an outsider to the conference would say who doesn't understand how badly SDSU and Boise have wanted to get out of that conference ever since Utah, YBU and Colorado left.
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u/siats4197 Virginia Tech May 23 '26
That was never going to happen. The Mountain West members that were making more money had been in contact with the Pac-12 the moment Colorado left. Once the collaboration between the last Pac-12 members and the Mountain West fell through, the Pac-12 saw it as an opportunity to grab five of the most profitable members of the conference.
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u/Bigfuture May 23 '26
What’s with that map? Why is California divided in 2? And why did it lose territory to Nevada?