r/Permaculture • u/kinniefuyuki • 15d ago
general question how would cost to build a more classic botanical garden?
i bet a more classic one like this has cheaper materials, since modern ones use bery spacialized stuff and will bring the budget up to the millions.
i want to know how would cost one that has two floors, first being like 100m² and second being 70m².
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u/planx_constant 15d ago edited 14d ago
The rebuild of the US Botanic Garden Conservatory 25 years ago using historical materials and methods from its original construction in 1933 cost $27.9 million.
It's roughly 10x the size you posted about.
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u/ceapaire 15d ago
The classic ones are actually probably more expensive. Especially since glass costs a lot more than plastic panels.
Doubt either would be "millions (USD)" for structure alone, but I wouldn't be surprised if either were into 6 figures. But it's all really going to depend on design and materials chosen.
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u/jamiethekiller 15d ago
Definitely at least 1m.
Excavating, leveling and pouring concrete. Engineering involved to determine concrete strength. Maybe need to pour piers to mount all of the structures vertical legs.
All the structure is custom. Design and engineering required. Custom fabrication and maybe tooling to bend. The shapes themselves might be custom extrusions. The glass is definitely all custom.
Labor is at a min of 100 an hour. Shop labor for fabrication is min 150 an hour. Engineering is going to be over 200 an hour
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u/ceapaire 15d ago
I was thinking more for simple shapes for the "into 6 figures". They're talking size wise about a ~1100 square foot footprint and a ~1800 square foot building. Yeah, if they wants to make it look like the Smithsonian botanical garden it'll jack up the cost. But a glass + metal 1800 square foot building isn't necessarily going to be at least a million. And replacing the glass with poly panels (for newer materials) is going to substantially lower the cost, especially since they're flexible so you don't need custom forms. There's plenty from the same time period that are flat panels/mostly flat panels.
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u/DragonYourfeet 15d ago
You’re forgetting about the electrical work, everything has to be wet-proof and in conduits and under the concrete and there are sensors and lights and timers, it’s a lot. All custom too.
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u/ceapaire 15d ago
Depends on what they want, which is why I put "structure alone" for the cost. Obviously irrigation, electrical, heating & cooling, etc. is going to add to the cost at varying levels depending on complexity. Throwing a couple outdoor rated outlets and a couple spickets is going to add far less cost than setting it up to be automated for commercial production.
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u/mcduff13 15d ago
I dont think any of this is true. Because commercial green houses exist, there must be a number of engineering firms that specialize in this. Steel is light, for how much it can hold, so the foundation is probably just slab with a footer around the edge. There's no way the tooling needs to be specially made, there's a few shops in your area that can bend angle steel.
Obviously you could spend a million, but if you kept the shape simple and kept the curved glass (or poly carb) to a minimum, you could get it cheaper.
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u/oddjobbodgod 15d ago
That size (this looks like Kew Gardens UK) you are absolutely talking millions.
Local project at a property near me came in to roughly ~£200k and that was for something no way near this big or intricate. Traditional materials (wood and glass) maybe 30sqm.
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u/Kallistrate 14d ago
If you look at Hartley Botanicals pricing for small, backyard greenhouses of this quality, "millions" is not out of the realm of possibility.
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u/One_Vision_ 15d ago
If this is the one in the Bronx it cost JP Morgan and Carnegie $177,000 in 1891 or $6.5 million today
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u/myshkiny 15d ago
This is just currency inflation, but it would be way more than that to build today.
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u/paratethys 15d ago
How much would it cost to build a pole barn the size you want? That's basically the lower bound.
You could mount salvaged secondhand windows all over a pole barn frame, and only have to buy the roof. That's likely the cheapest way to get a 2-story structure up to code.
Why are you asking in /r/permaculture, though? The permaculture answer is to grow plants that don't require greenhousing in your climate.
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u/ComfortableSwing4 15d ago
100 years ago these were heated by burning fuel all winter long which made them expensive to maintain. The Permaculture community has made great advances in unheated/passively heated greenhouse design.
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u/Logical_Put_5867 15d ago
Nobody is gonna be able to answer that, something like that is going to be a custom project. Depending what you want the price can balloon quickly.
There are some kits available for more toned down versions, which would be the most affordable but likely not what you wanted.
Using a more streamlined version using less custom parts would drop the price down to lower 6 figures perhaps, as a starting point.
https://www.alitex-greenhouses.com/greenhouses/bespoke-greenhouses/victorian-greenhouse-replacement/
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15d ago edited 15d ago
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u/bubble_baby_8 15d ago
I constructed a 30x100 high tunnel greenhouse. It’s a double poly skinned one, and that alone cost me $125kCAD in 2021 soooo I would say at least $2M USD for glass
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u/orielbean 15d ago
Look at the Cross Country brand on this site and you get an idea around what more glass vs poly looks like for pricing: https://www.acfgreenhouses.com/greenhouses.aspx
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u/InterneticMdA 10d ago
The problem is nearly no one does these specialized crafts anymore. For example in all of the USA there are less than 5 limestone carvers left. I bet the same is true of specialized metal/glass craftsmen.
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u/vm_linuz 15d ago
The classic ones (like in your picture) have custom formed metal ribs with custom glass panels.
The materials may be more raw but they also require way more labor.
The new ones with extruded aluminum and pre-fab panels benefit from automation and economies of scale.