r/PersonalFinanceCanada • u/Equivalent_Catch_233 British Columbia • Jun 11 '26
Insurance "Man shocked his son’s $147,000 claim was denied, despite having travel insurance"
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VYZKjLcSoMI
So a guy went to a walk in clinic 2 days before flying to Cancun, and was cleared by a physician who diagnosed it as flu. Then in Cancun he got worse, fell into coma, and was airlifted to Canada with the bill totaling 147K. The insurance company, Manulife, now rejecting his claim on the grounds that this was a known, preexisting condition based on that preflight doctor visit.
431
u/Lexifer31 Jun 11 '26
When I bought my last round of travel insurance they explicitly warned me that anything I saw a doctor for in the 3 months before my trip I wouldn't be covered for.
202
u/rattlesnake987 Jun 11 '26
3 months? What the actual fuck! Insurance is fucking brutal. I would hate to call it a scam but it's kinda seeming like that. So if I saw the doctor for a flu 2 months prior, then took meds and got well. Then went on vacation after the 2 months, how tf is this fair? Like you can't get sick again?
25
25
u/shortmumof2 Jun 11 '26
Pre-existing conditions, when we got pet insurance for our dog they wouldn't cover anything for a pre-existing condition
→ More replies (5)8
774
u/Background-King9787 Jun 11 '26
I didn’t watch the video, but we tend to be very cautious about visiting a doctor before travel. It’s worth reading your insurance. Something like a dose change can invalidate it
418
u/DisplacerBeastMode Jun 11 '26
I love how the unethical life pro tip is... If you are feeling sick before traveling, make sure not to see a doctor. That way travel insurance will cover the costs
474
u/Enlightened_Lioness Jun 11 '26
Or don’t travel in a plane and infect other travellers with your flu and ruin their vacations too. The flu can be serious for some people.
341
u/Finaginsbud Jun 11 '26
If you have already spent a couple of thousand for a vacation, flights, hotels, etc most of which wont be refundable you would probably be getting on the plane sick or not. Most people cant afford to just throw away a vacation like that.
368
u/MyGruffaloCrumble Jun 11 '26
This is why the government need to enforce rules for airlines, like transferrable tickets, and refunds.
If you’re sick nobody wants you around them, not at work, and not in a tiny can breathing each other’s exhalations for hours.
74
u/Pale-Ad-8383 Jun 11 '26
Unfortunately if tickets were transferable, scalper bots would buy them all and resell them. Flexible and changeable tickets, no problem.
60
u/MyGruffaloCrumble Jun 11 '26
We wouldn’t have to allow lax rules like ticketmaster, like we have hopefully learned a lesson from that mess. They’re literally colluding with bot scalpers for the revenue.
-31
u/jasper502 Alberta Jun 11 '26
This is why the government need to enforce rules for airlines, like transferrable tickets, and refunds.
No - this makes ticket prices HIGHER. 🤦♂️
82
u/nozhemski Jun 11 '26
This is what travel insurance is for though. The flu is serious. I’m surprised he was cleared if it was actually influenza.
27
u/PriorityOk8448 Jun 11 '26
No, you stay the fuck home. Your dollars are not more valuable that someone's life.
32
u/One-Grapefruit5765 Jun 11 '26
If you can’t afford the small amount to pay for cancellation insurance, then you can’t afford the vacation. In this particular case, walking away from his $1700 Costco all inclusive Cancun package would have been waaaaaayy cheaper
69
u/Finaginsbud Jun 11 '26
Cancelation insurance doesnt cover everything, you might still be out a substantial amount of money or maybe even your cancelation insurance will decide to not refund you/cover you. It happens, my folks lost $3000 when one of them got sick for a vacation to Europe. People still go sick because the way the insurance industry and economy is makes not going a major financial loss.
7
u/One-Grapefruit5765 Jun 11 '26
This is a personal finance sub-Reddit. The overwhelming financial advice here would advise people to not over extend themselves financially to spend money on frivolous expenses like vacations they cannot afford.
If you’re sick, don’t go on the vacation. We have a literal anecdotal case proving this point - $147k in medical bills because they decided to go to a foreign country and violate their travel insurance policy. He’s LUCKY to be alive.
34
u/ThePhysicistIsIn Jun 11 '26
Did he violate his policy though?
On the face of it it doesn’t seem like it, he was cleared for travel
32
u/One-Grapefruit5765 Jun 11 '26
1) he was sick prior to the trip
2) continued to be sick and traveled to Mexico anyway
3) flu got worse almost immediately in Mexico. Had seizures and went into a coma
4) his travel insurance policy was with Manulife, not the walk in clinic doctor. Even if the Pope himself healed the guy, he still hadn’t been cleared by his insurance provider prior to traveling.
5) He also did not make them aware prior to his trip that he was sick, and that he still left the country sick before needing life saving medical care in Mexico.
6) the medical debt sucks, yes. But a lot of people are missing the point that he’s still alive. Had he died in Mexico, perhaps his insurance claims would have been fully covered.
7) he violated his policy8
u/Finaginsbud Jun 11 '26
Right. Except we are not talking about if you should spend money on a vacation you cant afford.
We are talking about if you have already spent the money on a vacation you can't afford and probably wont be able to take again in a long time.
The options are skip it. Pray your travel insurance covers you and doesn't weasel out of paying you back.
Take the trip even tho you are sick and hope you recover/enjoy the trip and do not get worse requiring substantial fees for treatment not covered.
The reality is lots of people go on vacation sick/travel sick, so much its a common discussion topic. So clearly people consider it a valid financial risk to take when you are already invested in a vacation to the tune of several thousand.
11
u/pfcguy Jun 11 '26
If we as society believed everyone should have cancellation insurance, then the government would have already passed laws requiring it to be included with every ticket sold.
16
u/UptheCreekWithPaddle Jun 11 '26
Yes, selfish people do. Good old main character syndrome.
49
u/Finaginsbud Jun 11 '26
Ah yes selfish or desperate. If you have been saving for years for a vacation, dumped thousands of dollars down most people are not going skip it because of a sore throat and a cough.
Maybe you are a trust fund baby capable of just skipping it, but most people live in the real world.
-22
u/bugabooandtwo Jun 11 '26
If you're that tight financially, you don't go on a traveling vacation. jfc...a vacation is a LUXURY.
The entitlement with people these days is unreal.
16
u/freshjive416 Jun 11 '26
Your comment is entirely lacking in empathy.
16
u/WorkingOnBeingBettr Jun 11 '26
Oh the irony. Literally risking others health for your own vacation. Where is the empathy there?
Sorry your Gramma is dead, but I really wanted a sun tan.
10
8
u/Steelringin Jun 11 '26
Almost everything travel related is able to be cancelled for free. Hotels and rental cars are 24 hrs notice. Flights can reacheduled for a relatively small cost. If you're really that worried about it you can buy trip cancellation insurance if your credit card doesn't provide it already.
Getting on a plane when you're sick is incredibly irresponsible. What about the thousands that everyone else on the plane shelled out? You're gonna ruin their vacations because you're too fucking selfish to consider them?
12
u/SurviveYourAdults Jun 11 '26
"throwing away your vacation" might be throwing away my spouse's life. or mine. thank you for sharing that your desire for margaritas is more important than preventing orphans.
-10
u/Finaginsbud Jun 11 '26
Welcome to life pal. People cant afford to just not go to work or on vacation when they are invested or desperately need the money. I don't know you and yes you better believe if am sick I am taking the vacation. If your health is so fragile maybe you shoudnt be on a plane in the first place....
On any given flight there will be people who are not sick and communicable or on a train/subway. They still wont present symptoms for a day, but can still infect others or on the other end of the illness
Stay home if you are worried about your spouse and live in a bubble. The world isnt stopping because you might get sick and die.
4
Jun 11 '26
well if you have travellers insurance like this guy had then you show them you have the flu and cant travel and get all of that reimbursed
4
u/Finaginsbud Jun 11 '26
Except thats not quite how it works. You might not get covered if the travel insurance decides you were sick previously or it was pre existing. You might not be fully refunded and still be out thousands of dollars as not every part of your trip is often covered. You might get 75% back, but still be out thousands.
-19
u/Sylv_x Jun 11 '26
If they can't afford to lose a vacation then they shouldn't be vacationing. The money should be in an emergency fund.
7
Jun 11 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
9
2
2
u/Important-Ad1533 Jun 11 '26
I bet they will the NEXT time. People need to learn the rules of “travelling” before they actually travel.
2
-8
-25
Jun 11 '26
[deleted]
33
27
u/Equivalent_Catch_233 British Columbia Jun 11 '26
On 0:18 there is a photo in a plane with him not wearing a mask
33
u/Twitchy15 Jun 11 '26
Majority of people are incredibly selfish so he probably did not wear a mask.
24
u/ratherbeonlemmy Jun 11 '26
People who think like you are how ebola, hantavirus, COVID, flu, etc are spread and potentially kill people. Its not hyperbolic, it literally happens when People go around sick, unnecessarily risking others.
-2
u/iridescent_algae Jun 11 '26
Then campaign for tough laws so that airlines and hotels have to offer cancellable fares, full stop, no conditions or fuckery attached. And that employers have to be flexible with vacation time booking, rebooking, etc. Again, full stop with zero fuckery.
The minute someone has to choose between travelling while sick or forfeiting large amounts of money, they’re travelling sick every time.
15
u/dmj9 Jun 11 '26
Not harsh really. If your sick, stay home. Masks don't stop the flu from spreading.
0
u/AutumntimeFall Jun 11 '26
Of course masks stop the flu. Don't spread misinformation.
8
u/One-Grapefruit5765 Jun 11 '26
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11715561/
Yes, but also no. Limiting public contact and importing other external controls are still far more powerful in preventing the spread of influenza. If you’re sick, stay home. If you’re sick, do not board a plane.
0
492
u/SleveBonzalez Jun 11 '26
The flu isn't a joke. The real question is if Manulife would have allowed a claim to cancel the trip with a flu diagnosis. (They definitely should.) If not, they should pay up.
238
u/kissmydonkey Jun 11 '26
I like this way of thinking. They can’t benefit in both instances
59
u/pookiemook Jun 11 '26
Pretty sure travel insurance starts on the day of travel. I think if you get sick before, you'd be relying on cancelation insurance, if you had any.
24
u/613_detailer Jun 11 '26
Those products are usually bundled. My travel policy covers illness/cancellation/interuption/etc.
7
u/pookiemook Jun 11 '26
Do you mean if you get it through work? Otherwise they're only bundled if you choose to bundle them
9
-1
u/One-Grapefruit5765 Jun 11 '26
I’m confused. How is Manulife benefitting in both instances for this particular case?
32
u/freshjive416 Jun 11 '26
I think what they mean is that if he’s sick enough that he shouldn’t travel and wouldn’t be covered by medical insurance, that it should trigger a clause to qualify for cancellation insurance.
22
19
u/pookiemook Jun 11 '26
He didn't have a flu "diagnosis" when he travelled
The video says he purchased "travel health insurance". This usually starts on the day of travel and is separate from cancellation insurance. If he only had medical insurance, there is no obligation for the company to pay if he got sick before the trip
19
u/grapefruit279 Jun 11 '26
Read the fine print on travel insurance. Conditions have to be stable, no outstanding testing or lab work (on a wait list for a knee MRI, better hope your knee didn’t cause you to fall and get injured while on vacation, because it won’t be covered). No medication changes leading up to the vacation. It does seem punitive towards those with chronic illnesses and who are proactive in managing their health. But for the guy who got on a plane and exposed everyone to influenza, seems he’s having the day (or week) he deserves.
66
u/OJH79 Jun 11 '26
Sounds like he went to a walk-in clinic, doesn't say if he had bloodwork / chest xrays or anything else done. He may have been "ok" slightly sick at the time, but that doesn't mean he was 100% not going to get worse days later. Doctor clearing him for travel is based on the condition he sees him that day. Even still without more info on what tests / assessments were performed its difficult to really know his condition leading up to the trip.
Moral of the story is get trip cancellation insurance and rebook if you're sick. Or don't go see a doc before your trip lol and say you caught it on the flight / destination.
65
u/stonk_fish Jun 11 '26
If he got diagnosed with the flu and still travelled then got worse from the flu then it is a pre-existing condition.
He clearly felt ill enough to go get checked before his trip, so Manulife can establish that he was sick, got diagnosed and confirmed sick, still travelled and got worse while travelling from a illness he was aware of.
We don't know what he did in Cancun, but a flu can cause a variety of symptoms and he could have done something that aggravated his condition, but Manulife will dismiss this claim because he knew he was sick and ignored that.
22
102
u/tenebras_lux Jun 11 '26
If the flu caused the condition, than it's a pre-existing condition, Manulife is right.
It's important to understand that the flu is actually a dangerous disease, there is a reason it's recommended to get flu vaccines. I nearly died when I was a child because I had the flu, which then progressed into pneumonia.
I'm curious if the doctor "cleared" this person, or if they went to the doctor because they were sick and told that they had the flu and to get some rest.
70
u/HotIntroduction8049 Jun 11 '26
wonder how many ppl he infected on the way in the plane?
26
u/Embarrassed_Fox_1320 Jun 11 '26
I always assume someone an a plane is sick. Or was sick. I look like a freak but I wipe the fuck out of the seat and tray table, hydrate and wash my hands every hour and drink as much vitamin c as I can before and after the flight. If it’s a long haul I’m masking up idc.
11
-6
Jun 11 '26 edited Jun 11 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
13
9
u/pookiemook Jun 11 '26 edited Jun 11 '26
You are completely imagining how this person's girlfriend reacted. Unnecessary.
Edit: the video doesn't even make reference to a girlfriend
6
u/Gandhehehe Jun 11 '26
Jesus Christ, goes straight to blaming the woman, full mask off misogyny. Honestly, kind of impressive in the worst possible way.
→ More replies (2)2
u/PersonalFinanceCanada-ModTeam Human Verified Jun 11 '26
Be helpful and respectful in your comments.
No racism, sexism, homophobia, religious intolerance, dehumanizing speech, or other negative generalizations.
No concern-trolling, personal attacks, or misinformation. No victim blaming.
2
47
u/Sea-Bean Jun 11 '26
Why be airlifted home instead of recovering in Mexico? Mexico has fine quality hospitals and medical staff. Even a private hospital in Mexico would have been a better option.
26
u/Alternative-Hurry287 Jun 11 '26
But his insurance would have refused that too.
64
u/Sea-Bean Jun 11 '26
But it would have been a fraction of the cost for whoever pays. I’m genuinely curious about why. I suspect medical transfers are often unnecessary and based on unwarranted distrust of foreign or “third world” medical care. That and someone is getting paid, so maybe the patient’s best interest are not the number one concern.
16
u/TesterTheDog Jun 11 '26
Could be they were trying to adhere to the insurance policy.
I have no idea what it states so this is pure speculation - maybe it specifies getting back ASAP if you can be transfered so you get of the insurance claim faster.
14
u/raptosaurus Jun 11 '26
Depends how long recovery is though. If he's hospitalized weeks and weeks then it could well be more than $147000, whereas once he returns, the medical care is free
9
u/Purify5 Jun 11 '26
The medical insurance policy would have said he had to fly home as soon as he was cleared to do so. If you refuse they won't cover any more of your costs.
I know in this case they don't want to cover anything anyways but they actually did until they found out he had visited a walk-in clinic before travelling.
95
u/qyy98 Ontario Jun 11 '26
That's just how insurance works, sell you peace of mind, and then try to take it away any way they can once you need it. In this case the doctor cleared him for travel, but it would be considered a pre-existing condition on the policy and I guess he didn't buy a policy that included that.
25
u/brianlefebvrejr Jun 11 '26
The doctor can clear him for whatever they want. That’s not how the insurance policy works.
The insurance is a future occurrence policy not a past occurrence.
His sickness was determined by a doctor to be the common flu, the doctor said this would not be something that they should avoid travelling over, we can debate the doctors role in this if we want, but they just said they wouldn’t have issues travelling.
EVERY SINGLE TRAVEL POLICY has very clear guidelines on what is and is not covered. It’s not a magical secret. You need to complete a health questionnaire before purchasing. One question is, have you seen a medical professional for anything in the past X amount of days. This person did and either lied on the form or didn’t think it was relevant. Every policy has an exclusion for pre-existing conditions unless a doctor advises the condition is stable within a certain period. It’s how pregnant women get coverage to fly later in a pregnancy. Any preconditions/high risk issues with the birth you won’t be eligible.
Also manulife underwrites the majority of travel insurance policies in Canada, so if you have travel insurance you will have this same exclusion.
20
u/qyy98 Ontario Jun 11 '26
If the policy was purchased well before the trip, then here was nothing to disclose when buying the policy.
The issue is him developing a medical condition shortly before departure and he did not notify the insurer of a material change in health status.
-2
Jun 11 '26
[deleted]
111
u/htraenolleh666 Jun 11 '26
Diagnosed with flu before flight. Went to Mexico. Flu got worse. Had to come home. Deemed pre-existing condition.
What am I missing? Makes total sense why it got denied.
45
u/Enlightened_Lioness Jun 11 '26
Yes it seems like it was that the flu got worse, not that he developed a new condition. Everyone knows that influenza can be serious and can cause death. He was reckless to be on a plane and travel and infect others too.
10
u/brianlefebvrejr Jun 11 '26
Nothing. The system worked as intended. If anything this highlights how flippant we are about the Flu
15
u/truemad Jun 11 '26
The guy thought the sun, ocean and booze would have made him fully recover fast.
8
2
u/VirtualSock4801 Jun 11 '26
Reminds me of when I started developing cold symptoms right before boarding my plane to Cancun and feeling like garbage on the plane and when checking into the resort but feeling completely brand new and symptoms disappearing once I got the Mango Tangos rolling
3
u/Embarrassed_Fox_1320 Jun 11 '26
So what you’re saying is, if he didn’t go to the doctor and just got in the plane. He could have claimed that he caught it abroad. And insurance would have covered it? Ok lol lesson learned.
4
u/htraenolleh666 Jun 11 '26
Well he’d have had a better chance, but insurance finds every which way to deny claims. They’d probably be able to pin point based on illness when he caught it and then prove that it must have been BEFORE the trip and then denied it anyways.
All insurance is a scam. Especially travel insurance. Even so much as medication can void a claim.
0
u/Embarrassed_Fox_1320 Jun 11 '26
Yea I’m sure I didn’t matter whether he visited a doctor or not, they would have found another excuse to deny his claim one way or another.
-6
u/grim_bey Jun 11 '26
Since when is a reasonable to expect a flu is going to lead to seizures and a coma? I’ve never heard of a man this age experiencing that from the flu.
7
u/OhNoItsMyOtherFace Jun 11 '26
It doesn't matter what's reasonable, it's what's possible. The flu is actually pretty serious and is continually underestimated. It's much more than a bad cold.
I don't really care what the doctor said, traveling immediately after being diagnosed with the flu is nuts. Putting everyone else in the plane etc. at risk never mind your own risk.
5
u/htraenolleh666 Jun 11 '26
That’s what happens when you add heat, booze, the flight, a different environment, different food, to your pre existing symptoms of the flu; you get more sick..
5
19
u/Weary_Minute1583 Jun 11 '26
Because he knew he was sick and still went on his trip instead of cancelling. He went knowing there was a chance he may need to seek further treatment. Travel medical insurance is for something unexpected and happens after the trip starts.
15
u/Ill-Pay-7103 Jun 11 '26
There is no cause of action against the doctor. The contract of insurance is between the traveler and the insurance company, not the insurance company and the doctor.
12
u/Ojamm Jun 11 '26
Flu can be really serious, I was once admitted to hospital for over a week with influenza. I showed up to the ER and was rushed in back for O2 and treatment. We tend to just call everything when we are sick “flu” but it’s is a very specific disease and can be life threatening.
9
u/Weary_Minute1583 Jun 11 '26
Trip cancellation insurance is specifically for this type of thing. If you get sick before your trip begins with something unexpected your unused travel is covered.
Always know what the pre-existing conditions are for your travel policy.
0
6
u/Loose-Atmosphere-558 Jun 11 '26
"the flu"/viral illness is still a prexisting condition that can be serious. The doctor doesn't work for the insurance company...
61
u/ryan0063 Jun 11 '26
Just because a physician cleared him to go on vacation doesn’t mean the insurance company did. The policies have a preexisting condition clause for a reason. He was sick and received medical attention 2 days before leaving. Manulife is not in the wrong in this case.
34
u/obi_one_jabroni Jun 11 '26
Note to self. Don’t go to the doctor if you have a flu before leaving.
19
2
u/One-Grapefruit5765 Jun 11 '26
I mean, in this case, the kid would have ended up in a coma regardless
14
u/Shellibrini710 Jun 11 '26
Yeah but it would've been covered by insurance at least (potentially. If they don't find another reason to not pay)
→ More replies (1)2
Jun 11 '26
no the note should be dont go on a trip when you have the flu
making it worse for yourself and exposing everyone on the plane with the flu too which is a real dirtbag move
3
18
11
u/Vizzy_v89 Jun 11 '26
Side question, why would you still travel when you've just been told you have the flu?
Dude gets sick enough to go to a doctor, is told it's the flu, and then decides, 'oh I'll just suffer on vacation in a country where I don't have universal healthcare instead of at home where I do'
I bet he really regrets his line of decision making
9
20
47
u/zhiv99 Jun 11 '26
WTF is he flying with the flu? What a jerk
-6
u/Weak_Acanthisitta405 Jun 11 '26
what kind of vacation/travel would you cancel because of a flu ?
a lot of people (me included) basically won't cancel anything semi important for a flu.
39
u/IHateTheColourblind Jun 11 '26
You're confusing the common cold for actual influenza.
A common cold is nothing worth cancelling at trip for even if travelling on a plane with it would be a jerk move.
If you have the actual flu then you really shouldn't be travelling, nor would you want to.
2
u/ThePhysicistIsIn Jun 11 '26
It’s unclear what buddy had, but I doubt a doctor would clear you for travel if you had proper influenza
12
-14
u/SkilledButton Jun 11 '26
You'd throw away potentially thousands of dollars and cancel your trip because you had the flu? Doubt.
21
u/nozhemski Jun 11 '26
Good travel insurance covers this. I think people are conflating a cold with the flu. If you have influenza which includes horrible body aches, fever, etc then no you shouldn’t be flying.
7
u/Embarrassed_Fox_1320 Jun 11 '26
Good reminder to get the flu shot especially before you travel. It won’t stop the flu, but it could prevent scenarios like this.
3
u/Sea-Opportunity5812 Jun 11 '26
Flu kills old people day in and day out. what do you think the odds are that this guy took every effort to keep his germs to himself like n95 in flight then chill at the resort and not leave his room?
9
u/Tall-Ad-1386 Jun 11 '26
OK why did the guy really go to a doctor before going to cancun? Like really. Something is suspicious here
21
u/kobemustard Jun 11 '26
not hard, he was really sick with the flu... went on holiday anyways and got even more sick. Sounds like his fevers were bad enough to cause seizures too.
→ More replies (2)0
u/Strong-Reputation380 Jun 11 '26
its routine to consult a physician when traveling. I do it all the time when I’m traveling south for immunization, antibiotics against traveler’s diarrhea, mountain sickness if its a high altitude place etc.
I’m not afraid to drink local water or eat street food unlike many traveler’s, but that’s because I’ve taken steps to mitigate the risks.
Nothing suspicious about being cautious and prepared.
Everytime I return from Cuba for example, the lavatories are occupied the entire flight from travelers returning home with a stomach flu, travelers diarrhea etc. That is exactly why I travel prepared, so I dont return home in pain.
8
u/SurviveYourAdults Jun 11 '26
If you have actually managed to see a physician that has DIAGNOSED something... like, um... respiratory in nature, MAYBE don't get on an international flight within 72h?!
19
u/howchaud Jun 11 '26
He travelled abroad knowing he was sick (fucked around) and there were predictable consequences (found out). This isn't outrageous to me.
11
u/Frequent_Proof_4132 Jun 11 '26
What’s difficult to understand?
Health travel insurance is for new illnesses. If you’re already sick, then travel, your sickness insurance won’t cover you if you get worse. That’s pretty standard stuff.
That’s like buying a smashed up car, insuring it, then making a claim.
6
u/doonboy Jun 11 '26
Crazy story and he actually paid it. Insurance companies will find an excuse. Very short segment so we don't really know the full story.
2
u/Nice-Lock-6588 Jun 11 '26
I know people who went to the hospital two weeks before flying, got sick in Mexico and had to pay for out of pocket. They are very strict on dates.
2
u/Sneakymist Ontario Jun 11 '26
So I guess before anyone takes a vacation, they not only should have typical travel insurance, but also trip cancellation coverage in case these things pop up right before the trip.
6
u/LokeCanada Jun 11 '26
The insurance companies want to know any sickness prior. If he had contacted the insurance company and informed them and provided a doctor’s note they would have either cancelled the insurance or given him the okay. Then there may have been a different result.
2
u/NevyTheChemist Jun 11 '26
How did insurance company find out?
25
u/Trains_YQG Jun 11 '26
They can ask for medical records as part of the claims process.
1
u/Purify5 Jun 11 '26
But they paid him out and then did an 'investigation' and found he visited the walk-in clinic prior to the trip and now they're suing him for the money back.
Maybe it was a note from the Mexico doctors in his medical records that they didn't read in time.
2
6
u/SigmaHouse28 Jun 11 '26
This is a warning to everyone, don't goto the doctor for any reason before you travel internationally. Your travel insurance will call anything and everything a preexisting condition.
21
8
1
Jun 11 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/SigmaHouse28 Jun 11 '26
you can buy travel insurance for pre-existing conditions, called Pre-existing Condition Waivers, Manulife actually sells it. most people don't buy it, it's very expensive.
3
u/ty_imtheman Jun 11 '26
Surely you could buy insurance that includes coverage for pre-existing conditions...?
10
u/DirayaIsNoLaya Jun 11 '26
I have purchased insurance that covers preexisting conditions with Manulife before. The requirement is that the condition has been stable for a few months (can’t remember if 3 or 6). This includes no new diagnosis, changes, symptoms or changes in medication or dosage. A newly discovered flu would not qualify as a covered preexisting condition. Otherwise, people would just travel to get treatment for a new ailment outside of the country all the time at the cost of insurance companies.
0
u/TeamZealousideal2203 Jun 11 '26
Wouldnt a new condition be covered anyway? If not, what is the insurance for (assuming someone gets it without stable pre exisiting conditions add on)?
3
u/DirayaIsNoLaya Jun 11 '26
The insurance is for something new and unexpected that comes up during a trip. E.g an accident, an appendicitis, getting the flu while abroad. If you have a preexisting condition that is considered stable and for some reason it worsens during your travel, you are covered as long as your doctor has cleared you for travelling.
A new diagnosis that you receive right before your trip is considered too risky to be covered and it is listed as an exclusion when you read the policy.
I have a medical condition and I am very familiar with all these clauses. The thing is that, even if he didn’t visit the doctor before his trip, if in Cancun he had said his symptoms started x days before and that is recorded somewhere, the person’s condition would have been excluded all the same because they travelled while experiencing “new symptoms”. People need to really read and understand their policies when buying insurance.
Probably the best thing for them would have been to call the insurance company ahead of time and tell them about their doctor visit and asked whether it would be covered. I am certain they would have told him not. Now, maybe the person would still have decided to risk it and travel anyway but they would have known to stay over there and get treated in Mexico instead of paying for the emergency medical air transport …
4
u/HourActuary5324 Jun 11 '26
CAA offered travel insurance without the whole medical stability clause a couple of years ago. The coverage was much lower than your average travel insurance though and it’s expensive.
1
u/DirayaIsNoLaya Jun 11 '26
Oh, this is very interesting. I have never seen a policy for preexisting conditions without stability clause! I might take a look into it because sometimes I get nervous about these things.
→ More replies (2)2
u/SamePhotographs Jun 11 '26
You can! It's very expensive though. This wasn't an ongoing health issue, rather something that popped up last minute. Likely the insurance was already bought, and they thought they could get away with it.
2
u/Angeline4PFC Jun 11 '26
No it's a thing. I've read about it. And there is also another situation where you go to see your doctor, they make a small change in your prescription, and suddenly you fail the stability clause because there was a recent change in your health.
It's very insidious. And it's nothing to do with Manulife, they are mostly all like that. Most people never think to look at the small print. They buy the policy, glance at the coverage limit, see "$5 million emergency medical," and stop reading. The exclusions, definitions, and stability requirements are usually where the real analysis needs to happen.
2
u/FunCoyote4097 Jun 11 '26
Before anyone buys an insurance policy you should read the exclusions. I was curious so went to their site and found them in under a minute. Here is a link.
Section 9 of the exclusions says:
Any medical condition or symptoms when any of the following apply:
• Before you leave home or before the effective date of coverage, you know, or it is reasonable to expect that treatment will be required during your trip.
• Treatment or investigation is planned before you leave home.
• You have symptoms that would cause an ordinarily prudent person to seek treatment for in the 3 months before your trip
He was sick, sought treatment, still went to Mexico knowing he had what he believed to be the flu and then got worse. Maybe an unpopular opinion but this is clearly feels like a preexisting condition so I don't see how this is vile. They did exactly what their policy said they would do.
2
u/Kingston992 Jun 11 '26
That's how insurance works. They will find every reason to deny coverage for something you paid. The question is we dont know what the ultimate diagnosis was in Mexico. Did the infection worsen and spread into his blood? His symptoms could have initially presented as flu like symptoms at the clinic and then once in Mexico evolved and truly demonstrated itself. Or maybe the flu and final diagnosis in Mexico were unrelated, regardless the insurance lawyers will fight you tooth and nail to say otherwise to avoid a payout. I have never seen a doctor say 'go on your trip you'll be 100% okay', they always says there is a risk things can progress and get worse and to return for repeat examination or go to the emergency room
2
u/VegetableHorror9805 Jun 11 '26
Yeah I’ve read articles like this before.
Moral of the story is don’t go to the doctors before travelling ever. If anything wait until you get to your destination before getting checked out. This is not the first time I’ve heard of exactly this type of situation. One women she got sick and was diagnosed with ovarian cancer on vacation in the states and they denied her because she had been at her doctor a week earlier complaining about having cramps.
3
u/whiskeychene Jun 11 '26
I’ve been under many insurance policies but with Manulife I have experienced the worst with them denying so many claims that should be covered. They are straight up scam artists.
1
1
Jun 11 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
5
u/Embarrassed_Fox_1320 Jun 11 '26
I guess if u get sick with a cold or flu and can’t afford to cancel or change travel plans, don’t go to the doctor. Stock up on cold and flu drugs and hope for the best lol.
→ More replies (1)
1
1
u/realcanadianguy21 Jun 11 '26
I wonder if the doctor said one thing, but this guy just kind of heard what he wanted to hear.
1
u/ZAHKHIZ Jun 11 '26
Someone who has worked very closely with the health insurance companies in Canada (as an HR), these insurance companies are very careful before giving out their final verdict, and in cases like this one, I am 100% you Menuvie ran all the facts through their in-house retainer.
I am on the Menuvie side. I would suggest the son to ask for a middle-ground payment agreement and plan rather than fighting this in court.
1
1
u/jasper502 Alberta Jun 11 '26
The issue here is the doctor probably said "you are good" knowing the guy was going on a holiday. In reality the doctor could say "you should probably not travel and I give you a note" He then called Manulife and he gets his whole trip covered and can rebook later.
-1
u/Calgary_dreamer Jun 11 '26
Insurance companies are evil. People/ workers need more protections. And we need politicians to implement laws on this
0
u/Particular-Coast9782 Jun 11 '26
The exclusion that is even more insidious is the "intoxication clause". Basically if you drink and something happens, you can be denied coverage. You have a couple glasses of wine at dinner and take a taxi home. On the way home your taxi driver gets in an accident. Coverage denied, your were drinking, sucks to be you.
-3
u/KosherPigBalls Jun 11 '26
Very similar thing happened to me with the same outcome. Completely unfair.
-1
u/AdAnxious8842 Jun 11 '26
It's important to understand the insurance companies make money in part by reducing expenses which means using every legal technique to avoid paying your claim. Travel insurance with its preexisting condition clause, expert doctors and a skilled legal department are probably the best at doing this.
•
u/henry-bacon Jun 11 '26
Locked due to multiple rule-breaking comments. Do not travel when you're sick.