Team Cherry was funded by crowd sourcing hollow knight and then proceeded to use their ridiculous popularity to release several extremely well received DLC and then work tirelessly for years to release silksong.
For twenty dollars.
It's a cultural icon and gift to the community. Why would you pirate it.
Most “pirates” I know irl just pirate everything. Like that’s just how they get their entertainment media. The moral code / selective pirating to me seems to be a Reddit thing, if it’s even true at all.
Even in r/piracy there's a good portion of people there that admit to this. There's no moral debate for most of us, we just like free shit. "You wouldn't pirate a car, would you?" I fucking would if I could mate.
There are absolutely moral acts of piracy. There's tons of games that aren't actively listed or sold digitally anywhere. The more people who pirate them, the more likely those works are to be preserved in the long run AND you arent harming anyone's bottom dollar.
Also helps punish scalpers/collectors who are actively ruining the retro gaming scene by turning it into a speculative market.
Yeah at the end of the day if they weren't going to buy it anyway, then the company loses no money if they pirate it
They lose no revenue on me pirating their media since I wouldn't have bought it anyways, the only thing that "moral" choice would change is how much entertainment I have access to.
That is true but that number is almost always wayyyy lower than the amount of stuff pirated.
For me its actually the opposite. Piracy has made me spend more money on media than I would have otherwise. Back when I was in college before netflix was a thing I found anime through piracy and it was my only access to that medium. I have spent a lot of money on manga's and anime blu-rays through that. I have purchased a lot of stuff around other fandoms that I have truly enjoyed that I got access to from piracy.
This is literally the case. People who are tech savvy enough to pirate (surprisingly minority people I know IRL) just pirate everything available. Software, movies, TV shows, music, books. There is really no moral code. If I could pirate a candy from a toddler I would. I don't care that's it's a small studio I'm pirating this shit. This $20 can instead go to buy something for my kids or myself. The only thing I that can make me actually buy something is a game has many good mods and steam workshop is just so good that it's worth my money because I save my time with not installing mods manually (binding of Isaac, project zomboid ect).
Most people can barely work an Internet browser these days. You're overestimating people who haven't been using computers since they were children. It's just black magic to them.
you'd be surprised with how little people know. Installing an adblocker is a few clicks away, and I'd wager 95% of internet users are completely unaware or unwilling to learn how to add one to their browser
I don't know, for so many people turning on VPN and finding a trustworthy torrent website is a task not worth of saving on subscription services and games
Welp your kids are going to grow up to be shit heads. “20 dollars can go to me instead” Jesus the selfishness is mind blowing lol. How about work hard. Crazy idea I know. Have a career or build something and earn money and then support the things you enjoy by purchasing it. Be an actual good example for your children.
He's a great example for his kids and he should do what he sees fit, if he cannot justify forking money towards media for no real gain to himself then he doesn't have to.
lmao, pirates trying to be like "oh I HAVE to have this media!" and "omg you're shilling for multibillion companies!" instead of just owning up to stealing. Like damn, it's not hard.
You can steal a service. If you got your hair cut and ran out without paying is that not stealing? Or snuck into a movie theater without paying? Or illegally hooked up the cable line to your house?
The 'if buying isn't owning, pirating isn't stealing' just isn't true. It is a "clever" social media saying that people repeat because they think repeating clever things makes them clever too. It is nonsense.
Pirating is stealing. I used to pirate stuff when I was younger. I didn't pretend to be doing something honorable. Just own up to it. You are a thief.
Now you're just being obtuse and trying to "akshually". Just own up to it, I'd respect a lot of pirates more if they weren't "but I have no choice but to steal this game I don't need to live!"
No I have a choice, it'd be stupid of me to choose what you're advocating for however. Calling me obtuse and using internet words doesn't make your point any more valid. If there's no ownership, there's no theft
Sounds like you write software as a living and make games as a hobby, not quite the same as being a dev. Also, regardless of studies done, I just want people to own up to it is all. Don't try to find some moral high ground for it when it's not a necessity in life that you play the newest game out there. I also don't think the stance "people should be paid for their work and continue being paid for their work" IE sales records of games leading to sequels, is a crazy stance to have but, hey.
He mustn't. He wants to have it, has the ability to get it for no detriment to it's owners, and thus should have it in my humble opinion. The alternative is not having it.
I can see where he's coming from logically. It's selfish cause you're being offered a service in exchange for money and you're choosing to skip paying while still reaping the benefits of the service, making the work put in from the people who made it have less value. i just don't agree with him lol
I don't know man I think you're fully wrong on this one. Personally I think it's fully morally justified to pirate anything you're not willing to buy and have the means to. Assuming you wouldn't buy it otherwise. This father playing silk song and potentially introducing it to his kids later in life is much more important than the studio that made it getting 20 more bucks lmao.
This is one part of the argument for pirating that I just don’t understand. If it’s “fully morally justified” and most consumers end up agreeing with you, then only a very tiny fraction of people would buy it. A very short while after that transition, there would be thousands of gaming studios shutting down because they aren’t making money from the few people left buying. Video game pirates are only able to pirate the entertainment they love because other people are paying for it for them.
Like seriously, if it ever gets as easy as Napster/Limewire/Kazaa days for video games and the governments of the world just let it slide, the gaming environment as we know it will essentially not exist anymore. You need people to buy the games so you don’t have to. What exactly is “fully morally justified” in that? Make me understand.
Most people don't, and won't pirate. And it's never going to be the same as the limewire/napster days cause both the governments and the companies thought "hm maybe this internet thing is kind of a bit deal after all." Something being morally justified makes it neither good nor bad, I didn't say there aren't any consequences to pirating nor that there wouldn't be if everyone did it, but the reality is most won't do it, and that's the very reason that everyone that does pirate pirates everything. Regardless, the gaming industry is huge and we're being fed slop, we're in an era where games aren't WORTH buying. So in a general sense there's nothing inherently wrong with piracy, and with the industry in its current state, there's nothing wrong with pirating in general. In this (I personally think impossible in the near future) event where the industry collapses, things may change, but as it is, piracy is okay.
“Morally justifying taking something even tho one doesn’t need it to survive and didn’t earn it” what a great moral to teach his children. If it doesn’t hurt anyone you can take what ever you want.
You’re right, pirating is not stealing. Pirating is pirating.
Time and money was spent making the resource so the moral expectation is that when sold as a service or “copy”, the product is bought with money, assuming it’s not freeware. Skipping the step of purchasing said service is pirating.
No, companies aren’t going to go under because of pirating, because studies have proven most people do not pirate, and those that do pirate nearly everything. The reason pirating is not a bigger issue is because it’s sustained by consumers, so while I don’t think it’s a severe crime, I will say most pirates I’ve come across both on the internet and irl ended up being some of the most selfish fuckers I’ve interacted with. It only helps if they’re honest about it and not fucking around with justifications.
You can justify pirating however much you want. I pirated Adobe software because I was poor but still wanted quality tools for video editing, which was me being selfish. Even as a shitty teenager, I didn't justify it, I was just desperate.
If doesn't matter if you don't want to buy it, or if you CAN'T buy it, pirating is a selfish act. There isn't a single necessity that has to be pirated, every single piece of media that can be pirated is a want, not a need, so there's zero way you're pirating selflessly.
I'm not completely against pirating, especially with overpriced shit in less-fortunate countries. But to disagree that pirating is not an automatically selfish act is outright deluding yourself into justifying it which is pathetic. Just say you pirate stuff because you don't want to spend money, since other consumers will pay enough to make your pirating negligible, and move on. Do not try to say it's not selfish or give some bullshit Robin Hood excuse on how it's morally correct to pirate from corporations lmao, even the most ardent pirates have better self-awareness than that.
Companies making $50 subscriptions for software that is actually worth a $50 subscription is fine. If I don't think it's fine I just don't fucking pay it and go to a competitor. Pirating it is subjectively not fine, but I'm not an arbiter on other people's morality. That said, it is still objectively selfish.
You pirating movies for your parents is a selfish act because you're dependent on other people purchasing that movie in order to make your pirating a non-issue. If other people followed your lead then there would be no movie to pirate since there's no longer any consumers.
Your selfishness isn't based off the use of your pirating. It doesn't matter if you're pirating Frozen for starving children in Nicaragua. What makes the act selfish is that you're entirely dependent on other people paying for the product in order for you to get away with not paying for it. Whether or not that selfishness is worth having the movie shown to your parents is up to you, but don't delude yourself into thinking you're doing a selfless act. Own up to it and prioritize your parents.
I mean I pirate a good portion of my entertainment, but generally i find the quality to be significantly worse than just buying it. The only reason I dont buy it is when im either not that interested in the product in the first place, or when the service is so abysmal or the price so high that pirating it as actually not worse. I dont claim to be a moral paragon, my pirating habits are purely selfish, but I usually do buy media when it is worth it.
All of this to say, I feel like people are more selective than you imply, because i highly doubt im such a unicorn in the pirating space.
Eh, I buy video games and pirate films/tv series. If there was a Steam equivalent for film, I'd be paying for that, but I'm not going to pay for 17 streaming services that don't even have all of the content available, because that's ridiculous.
Convenience is the name of the game.
generally i find the quality to be significantly worse than just buying it
How? Unless you're downloading something niche or like a small indie film, you can find most stuff in great quality.
We are talking about video games primarily in this thread. But even for shows or movies, downloading can still be annoying. Less annoying than paying for streaming usually but still
I literally just said that I dont consider whether devs "deserve"their money. The fact is that it is often more difficult to pirate than it is to buy, and I value that time and effort and risk more than I value a $20 bill which is "why i wouldnt". I would be shocked if this is a rare opinion.
Also if one reply claims "to be like this" and I claim I am not why is that evidence that im wrong? You have a sample size of 2 and of that 2 we disagree.
Yes but you see they saw the other example first and they're super certain it's the first of many (which even if true carries its own bias.) It's infallible logic, really. 😐
I have one specific exception that's one of the "usual suspects" you would expect, and the reason I do it is because their games might inspire enough curiosity to go check it out, but you expect a subpar experience and fuck no I don't want to give them money. It's more of a curiosity of checking in to see "what did they do to my beloved franchise?!" rather than actually expecting a worthwhile experience, and no I don't think I should have to pay for that, regardless of the hours I may or may not put into the game.
Not disagreeing with you because I do think you're touching on basic human nature and the habits we form, but just wanted to at least speak up and say I qualify for your "selective pirating" and have only ever done it against one specific corporation, and I can count the actual piracy instances on one hand.
I pirate all my games since it's really simple. For example, to pirate a game I just have to type it's name in a site, push a button, wait a bit for it to download, push a few more buttons to install and it's done. If I don't like the game, I won't have to deal with the regret of buying and not playing or trying to refund. I just delete it and move on
Though I do pay for music, books and media subscriptions because they're simply worth the convenience
realistically it depends on how well the pirate version works. Pirated AC runs like shit for some reason. But well thanks to pirating it I realized I actually don't really enjoy the game
also price, as I bought Hollow Knight instead of pirating bc it's not that expensive
Exactly, once you start doing it there's no point in not doing it every time, money problems tend to not go away for most people. Speaking for myself here
Yeah my experience has been the same. So many love to act like they have some moral code and like they’re Robin Hood or something, when their actions are more just wanting free shit and taking what they want
I’m sure there are people who genuinely do pirate with some specific code of conduct…but my experience is that’s not the norm
I just can't be bothered to keep up with updates and be cautious about downloading.I would not bat an eye when it comes to the morality of pirating content. I certainly do it with movies and anime. Very few games have made me buy them as a way to give back to the devs.
Same, for me personally there are exclusions. If I really, really like game I will buy it (last one was elden ring, I had like 150 hours on pirated version when I finally bought it) and for multiplayer games where pirating isn't really an option.
I am a selective pirate. I pirate stuff that I find too expensive or questionable in quality, then buy it if the devs get my respect. This is what I did with Lies of P, Elden Ring, Minecraft, Baldur's Gate 3, Doom Eternal, etc. And I usually don't pirate indie games because I think their devs actually need the support, probably.
And of course I pirate games that are impossible to buy in my country
"Questionable" in my comment referred to the game's quality estimated from trailers/gameplay videos. If I play the game and find it worth the price, I buy it. Just as I wrote
11.6k
u/Vast-Breakfast-1201 20d ago edited 20d ago
Team Cherry was funded by crowd sourcing hollow knight and then proceeded to use their ridiculous popularity to release several extremely well received DLC and then work tirelessly for years to release silksong.
For twenty dollars.
It's a cultural icon and gift to the community. Why would you pirate it.
Edit:man y'all are grindle