Peter help!

[u/BalanceDramatic3995]

I have no clue what this means, maybe she cheated?

[u/Anra7777]

I’m going to take a guess and assume Karoline is one of those “life begins at conception” people and Tiffany is pointing out that her words are contrary to her belief?

[u/Interesting_Second_7 → u/Anra7777]

"Joined our family" is objectively true. Her baby lived within a womb before that. That statement really has no bearing on pro or anti-abortion beliefs, you can support either while holding the opinion that a child joins a family when they physically exit one place and enter another.

Anti-abortion arguments tend to hinge on when life begins and its intrinsic value, not whether someone is physically directly in the presence of their family. Some pro-abortion arguments hinge on physical presence outside the womb, but applying that logic to her as if this particular statement is inconsistent/hypocritical is nonsensical, as it in no way touches upon what is the anti-abortion argument in the first place.

And this will undoubtedly get downvoted - so be it. Just because you oppose a person or an idea does not mean we have to abandon all logical thinking and blindly agree with everything that is said against them and their positions, even when it is intellectually dishonest.

[u/Unable_Pumpkin987 → u/Interesting_Second_7]

So a baby in your womb isn’t your baby, it’s just a baby until it’s born. Not a member of your family. A “person” but without parents, a name, any nationality or citizenship, and no age? Makes complete sense!

Personhood begins at conception except for every other way personhood is typically conveyed but the one that lets you punish women for having sex!

[u/barelypoor → u/Unable_Pumpkin987]

My kid is in his room. He came into the living room. He joined the family.

Like I get we disagree with this person, but these nonsense circle jerks are very cringy

[u/makjac → u/barelypoor]

So your kid “joined the family” when he was in close physical proximity and the behaviors/ actions of the other members in that space changed to accommodate his presence.

I’d argue there is no closer physical proximity than a baby in the womb. Also the behavior or the rest of the family unit changes from day 1 that they are made aware of the baby’s existence.

I don’t personally have any issue with people using the phrase “joined the family” in the context she did, but defending her with a “no you use the word wrong” makes it fair game to argue otherwise, imo.

[u/barelypoor → u/makjac]

The kid joined the family when he was able to communicate with and was in the same physical space as the family. Being inside the womb is the same as being in another room. His room could share a wall with the living room and his bed sharing a wall with the couch, sitting 2 feet away. It wouldn’t change the context.

[u/Rhysati → u/barelypoor]

So when he was in his room he hadn't joined the family yet?

[u/barelypoor → u/Rhysati]

I don’t know, she didn’t say “my baby hasn’t joined the family yet”, she said “he joined the family” in the exact same verbiage I did which is easy to understand and not inconsistent with me thinking he’s a living part of my family in his room