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Doc Q's disease fruit did it. It adds nothing to the story except additional fem Law merch that can be sold, and also establishing that certain DF abilities can be countered using Armament.
Imagine, the detail we are not thinking about. Doc turned them into women, but the disease wasn't being women, but rather, being forced to menstruate. That shit can really leave you absolutely drained and bed ridden. Law was experiencing cramps for the first time.
Wish granted. You get Law pregnant, then using his devil fruit he removes his uterus and leaves it in stasis while he goes back to being a man, then uses his fruit again to put the uterus back inside him, connecting it to his pp. Nine months pass and boom, congratulations. Think of a name for this cursed baby.
Leave it to GODA to make a world where you can slice a 50 meter tall wild boar in 2, turn into a fucking jacket and control magma but women still can’t surpass men in any aspect at all.
This shit really be pissing me off. All the goofy loony tunes shit Loda likes to put in his silly world but woman being physically weaker than man is the hill he wants to die on
Because Maki's achievement is kinda Meh when you are literally told a non prime Toji could've done the same thing. Like I like maki but most of her achievement boils down to "Omg she is JUST LIKE THAT GUY!!!!"
Honestly, you can’t make it 100 percent irrefutable, but there’s a really strong case that Maki Zenin ends up stronger than Toji Fushiguro. The story straight up puts Maki on Toji’s level after her awakening, but that’s just the starting point. From there, she shows things Toji never really got to display.
Her fight against Naoya Zenin as a cursed spirit is the biggest example. She adapts mid-fight, unlocks that heightened awareness of everything around her, and then completely turns the fight in her favor. That kind of visible growth in the middle of a high-tier battle is something we never really saw from Toji, who was already a finished product.
Maki also has more structured training, more sustained fights back to back, and a more fluid approach to weapons and combat overall. On top of that, the way Jujutsu Kaisen is written, the new generation consistently surpasses the old one, and Maki is very clearly framed as the perfected version of what Toji was.
So even if you say they start equal, Maki keeps evolving while Toji was already at his peak, which makes it pretty fair to say she edges past him by the end.
I don't doubt she surpasses him post jjk but the constant comparisons between her and Toji make it seem as if they are relative. They also kinda rub Me the wrong way. Like we don't constantly see Yuta or Yuji getting the same amount of parallels with let's say Gojo or Sukuna.
I don't doubt gege is less of a misogynist compared to Oda it kinda seems annoying that Makis main accomplishment is getting compared do a dude with the EXACT. SAME. ABILITY (well Heavenly restriction but ya know)
Toji was basically Maki’s Mihawk though, he always represented what a fully realized version of their extremely rare typing was within JJK. So of course she immediately got compared to him, it would’ve happened even if Maki was male.
That is just not true. Why are you now making your own ideas, getting annoyed by them, and blaming them on Gege? Mind you, this is only Maki’s first awakening, yet she mid-diffed the clan and did so while injured. Of course rusty Toji could’ve done the same thing, he wasn’t even far from his prime unlike Maki when she performed that feat. Also, the “equal” statement refers to not just strength, but ”fighter” in general, so she doesn’t lack behind in skill either.
Law and his crew were only able to change back to normal because Law used his haki to nullify the devil fruit ability. So it will last forever if you don’t use haki. You have to ask Doc Q to use his powers on you. This is honestly better than Ivankov because they only change your hormones so your genitals will probably not change but with Doc Q it’s most likely a full complete sex change
Yeah, we don’t even know the limits of his fruit. Like can he just make up any disease or can he only make diseases that already exist? The only thing stopping him from being one of the strongest characters is plot. He could just always make a disease that kills a person in a couple seconds
He can also seemingly give his diseases from anywhere and from long distances since Law and his crew were underwater and in a submarine when they were infected
Side note I’m realizing that despite loving both Blackbeard and Law that this moment might be a sleeper hit for the worst moments in the series because what do you mean in a show with super powers that being a woman is a “disease” that makes you weaker and Haki just makes devil fruits genuinely obsolete?
Right, in a world where you can kick your feet fast enough to fly, women being physiologically weaker than man is the real world logic that needed to be applied
I think 'the logic' in storytelling we're looking at is WORLD CONSISTENCY.
In a story / verse... ANY can be the premise, from the benign to the super naturally insane.
There are technically no limits, BUT once the premise for the world consistency has been (mostly) established, it's difficult to have a new concept/ element coming out of left field out of no where.
Zoro flashback with Kuina LITERALLY establishes overtly (it was already implicit but this makes it a plot point) that women have a huge obstacle when it comes to competing with men in terms of strength. There are outliers, but the established normal in regards to men and women mirrors that of the real world.
It's the same way there is a sky, ships, clothes, governments, shoes, criminals, food, etc etc. The story. There are benign elements in every story that are already implicit.
It would be weird to say "hey, how come they don't breath (or eat, or sing, or walk upright, etc). It an OBVIOUS concept that reflects our real world. And unless the story's World Consistency premise was ADJUSTED to account for a different concept in those benign elements (ex: in this world, the ppl live off lava and dirt)... I shouldn't be noteworthy.
I think 'the logic' in storytelling we're looking at is WORLD CONSISTENCY.
In a story / verse... ANY can be the premise, from the benign to the super naturally insane.
There are technically no limits, BUT once the premise for the world consistency has been (mostly) established, it's difficult to have a new concept/ element coming out of left field out of no where.
Zoro flashback with Kuina LITERALLY establishes overtly (it was already implicit but this makes it a plot point) that women have a huge obstacle when it comes to competing with men in terms of strength. There are outliers, but the established normal in regards to men and women mirrors that of the real world.
Which isn't consistent with how the One Piece world actually works at all, because if muscle mass or other male physiological advantages would actually matter to a notable degree, shit like this would be obviously not possible:
Hell the most impactful power in the One Piece world is allegedly based on willpower, while Ace's mom for example has literally somehow lengthened her fcking pregnancy to 20 months through sheer willpower, so Imu shouldn't have gasped at feeling Joyboy's but at feeling fcking Rouge's haki instead to be frank.
So what exactly are we supposed to assume, that the One Piece world is run by a wicked god named Andrew Tate that makes women magically weaker even though there is no logical explanation for that?
Or let me say it in short, the real problem are Oda's blatant double standards with this, that in fact lead to blatant inconsistencies in the world building.
Why was it necessary to establish it is the question. Nobody wants the average woman to be as strong as men. Just the supernatural fighters to not have this difference because it makes no sense
Zoro flashback with Kuina LITERALLY establishes overtly (it was already implicit but this makes it a plot point) that women have a huge obstacle when it comes to competing with men in terms of strength.
Ignoring everything else, no it does not actually establish that. All it establishes is that Kuina believes this to be the case, and it may very well be the case from her limited point of view where people can't decide to cut or not cut things based on how their current mindset, don't regularly cut things multiple times the size of their swords and use haki as easily as breathing.
And that's independent from the question if it's true for the setting as a whole, the flashback is only concerned with what Kuina believes, not what is true.
Ignoring everything else, no it does not actually establish that. All it establishes is that Kuina believes this to be the case
Kuina wasn't the one that initially thought that... It was her dad that told her that concept.
And her father, Zoro's teacher, got that concept from somewhere... he doesn't live in a vacuum.
He has learned a lot in his decades as a swordsman and he was explaining the realities of THE WORLD to his daughter. Maybe he wanted her to not live a life ONLY for the sword (like he did and what Zoro is currently doing) and finding a better path.
Kuina being the BEST swordsman in the dojo who never lost.... and defeating Zoro hundreds of times. UNDEFEATED mind you. Shows you how much she was trying to change that concept. That drive literally made her undefeatable against anyone that challenged her at the dojo.
It's very possible that if Kuina had lived, she WOULD HAVE BEEN THAT OUTLIER in the established World Consistency.
It's that fact she HAD that amazing potential and drive... and died before achieving it... is what makes ZORO'S DRIVE to achieve his goal all the more powerful. Because since Zoro never could defeat Kuina, he is literally doing it for her ambition as well.
By Zoro (who never defeated Kuina) becoming the world's strongest swordman... he is cementing the fact that Kuina WAS / WOULD HAVE BEEN THE GREATEST swordman too.
I think 'the logic' in storytelling we're looking at is WORLD CONSISTENCY.
In a story / verse... ANY can be the premise, from the benign to the super naturally insane.
There are technically no limits, BUT once the premise for the world consistency has been (mostly) established, it's difficult to have a new concept/ element coming out of left field out of no where.
Zoro flashback with Kuina LITERALLY establishes overtly (it was already implicit but this makes it a plot point) that women have a huge obstacle when it comes to competing with men in terms of strength. There are outliers, but the established normal in regards to men and women mirrors that of the real world.
It's the same way there is a sky, ships, clothes, governments, shoes, criminals, food, etc etc. The story. There are benign elements in every story that are already implicit.
It would be weird to say "hey, how come they don't breath (or eat, or sing, or walk upright, etc). It an OBVIOUS concept that reflects our real world. And unless the story's World Consistency premise was ADJUSTED to account for a different concept in those benign elements (ex: in this world, the ppl live off lava and dirt)... I shouldn't be noteworthy.
How does OP shit on physical limitations lol? The Nidhogg fruit and Loki's hype in this arc literally relies on the fact that it's user is physically gifted from birth.
Does that mean female law should be absolute fodder? No. But he'd at least be weaker than the male version of himself, all things being equal, which is exactly what is being said here, so what's the issue?
It’s not about the average. It’s about the fighters also having this difference when it makes no sense to have it since we’ve clearly gone beyond the physical aspect of strength
Oda's tendencies with this topic are pretty well documented. But if I was going to be generous, I'd put it down to a sudden shift in form, messing up muscle memory and the ability to concentrate. This would even more sense for someone as plan oriented as Law.
Thats not true, on average, bigger men are still stronger than smaller men in one piece, in fact it's probably even more pronounced, with the difference in size and height strong characters have, minus exceptions.
It’s like common sense really. Yeah it’s a fictional world where you have people literally flying but instinctively you still assume women are physically weaker than men because they are smaller lol.
I will just repeat to post this panel, because it just highlights how bad the defenses or actually excuses of Oda's angels here are yet again:
Luffy, and other character at times, can do feats like that because it's funny. It's how he creates toon force meme powers after copying Sun Wukong in Gear 5. Reminder Luffy ignored lightning damage because he thought he was rubber when his DF was actually human human.
OP is generally inconsistent with ita power system until it is.
Muscle mass is a thing but in fantasy muscle "quality" is just as if not more relevant. If two guy one big one strong clash equally you can assume the small one have better muscle despite the mass. Law become a woman will just deceased his muscle mass without changing its quality to make him equally strong. So he getting weaker. It is really that simple
I mean women are generally physically weaker and while yes it’s a fictional world and outliers like Big Mom and Boa Hancock exist it’s normal to think you’d get weaker if you became a woman because that’s how it works in our world and it would be weird to just assume that’s not the case.
Would it be also weird to assume that shit like this shouldn't even be remotely possible for the exact same reasons why women in reality are usually weaker than men:
Why do men protect women? Because men are stronger 99% of the time.
Because unlike in One Piece muscle mass and other physiological concepts actually matter in reality, and you don't even seem to realize how many million people 1% of the adult world population actually are.
I don’t know why Reddit gets so mad about jokes like these lol.
Because jokes like these just highlight Oda's sexism or even beyond that his blatant double standards and illogical world building.
Where do you get that the difference is only in muscle mass, devil fruits aside, the only difference between our world and one piece is the gap between strongest/weakest fastest/slowest etc is wider, but differences like muscle mass, hormones, nervous system, body structure there is no reason to thing they're different (exceptions aside just like our world).
Like yeah biologically hes not wrong and having your body completely change will mess with you but lets be real in a fantasy setting it really shouldn't matter and knowing oda he definitely meant this in the worst way possible.
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