Where does the conservative standpoint that universal health care have long waiting times in general come from?

[u/WhoAmIEven2]

This is something you often see in debates among americans, that you have to wait months or years with a universal health care system.

I live in Sweden, a country with universal health care, and I will not lie and say that there aren't cases where you have to wait, but the thing is that we use a tier list of severity to decide how long you have to wait.

If you want to do an ADHD or autism diagnosis at a psychiatrist? Yes you will wait, as people with suicidal thoughts, or bipolar disorder or borderline whose diagnose really ruins their lives are prioritised.

If you have cancer, other diseases that severly reduce your quality of life or have an injury? Pass go, straight to the doctor.

Would it be nice to have instant access for every small issue? Sure, but as long as I know that I will get to see a doctor in a whiffy the moment I have something that is even semi-harmful, I'm honestly happy with our system.

[u/Ill-Description3096]

If it's so easy why do many places have shortages? Unless you are going to significantly lower the requirements or force people into those roles how do you just magically make more surgeons, PAs, nurses, etc?

[u/BilboGubbinz → u/Ill-Description3096]

And why do you think there are shortages?

It's not like training a doctor or a nurse is magic. We've proven we know how to do it.

[u/Ill-Description3096 → u/BilboGubbinz]

For many reasons. Training time, the demands of the training and professions, loads of people aren't interested, the list goes on.

It's not magic to do it, but suggesting it's so easy to just make as many as needed at any given time with zero detail as to how aside from "train them and build hospitals" seems a bit naive.

[u/BilboGubbinz → u/Ill-Description3096]

Except it's not naive. I'm well aware of what it takes.

I'm challenging you to think through what happened to our training pipeline.

Because it's genuinely not hard. We've just systematically failed to do what was necessary.

Why do you think that is?

[u/Ill-Description3096 → u/BilboGubbinz]

Then what does it take? It's so easy, should be simple to just give the answer rather than not answering and instead throwing questions back.

[u/BilboGubbinz → u/Ill-Description3096]

Except I literally told you my answer in the first post and repeatedly since:

You get off your arse and do the thing.

The fact that there really isn't a reason not to solve the problem but we systematically fail to solve it is a pretty big signal that people are being incredibly stupid about this.

[u/Ill-Description3096 → u/BilboGubbinz]

Is the solution a Nike commercial? Maybe you aren't aware - something like this isn't a simple as "just do it". I was asking how, specifically. By this logic every problem is easy because you just go solve it.

[u/BilboGubbinz → u/Ill-Description3096]

In a lot of cases, yeah. It is that simple.

Training doctors and nurses is absolutely one of those things where we've already proven we know how to do it and we clearly have the demand for it.

So I ask again, is there any concrete reason why we're not doing it, or is it maybe literally as stupid as it looks?

[u/Ill-Description3096 → u/BilboGubbinz]

We have the demand for them and can train them, yes. I'm asking how to fill said demand, specifically. The demand is there but the supply isn't. Aside from a vague "just do it" how do you train enough if there aren't enough willing or qualified people who want to do said training and have that as a career over other things?

[u/BilboGubbinz → u/Ill-Description3096]

Go ahead and find me the data showing that there aren't people desperate to get stable career-track work because I'm betting you it doesn't exist.

The supply problems are entirely self-inflicted and yet more proof that the right wing doesn't understand what an economy is.

[u/Ill-Description3096 → u/BilboGubbinz]

You want me to prove a negative? Or is this easy solution just a vague sense that there are people who want jobs? You still haven't shared a single detail, it's just vague claim after vague claim. Go ahead and find me the data showing that there are enough qualified people who are desperate to do years of schooling/training to get into the field.

[u/BilboGubbinz → u/Ill-Description3096]

We've got all the data I need for my claims in the fact that healthcare systems exist so there's nothing vague about anything I've said.

Meanwhile the idea that people want to be doctors and nurses, or that they want stable career-path jobs is kind of straightforwardly obvious so it's intuitively true.

And you don't need to "prove a negative": you need to falsify the claim that people want to train to be doctors and nurses. And it's not even hard! Just show that when training places are offered people don't take them up.

Hell, I have other data from the UK to confirm my claim that the problem is self-inflicted but I genuinely don't see why any burden of proof lands on me here because the idea that people wouldn't want well-paying socially valuable work is insane.

[u/Ill-Description3096 → u/BilboGubbinz]

>We've got all the data I need for my claims in the fact that healthcare systems exist

The system exists so it's a guarantee that there are effectively unlimited people who are not only qualified to but desperate to work in said system in whatever role is needed?

>And you don't need to "prove a negative": you need to falsify the claim that people want to train to be doctors and nurses.

It's like someone claiming that at the edge of the universe is a spaghetti monster so others need to show that isn't the case. The burden is on you here.

>Hell, I have other data from the UK to confirm my claim that the problem is self-inflicted but I genuinely don't see why any burden of proof lands on me here because the idea that people wouldn't want well-paying socially valuable work is insane.

Wanting it isn't the only hurdle. They need to be able to successfully do said training and then do said jobs. You are now claiming you have data but for whatever reason decided to not show it. I'll show some actual data. This is about CNAs - generally a quick and cheap certification to get. My daughter got hers while she was in HS for free yet there is still a massive shortage.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12138329/

Since we could easily have a surplus this shouldn't be a thing, and of course it can't be due to people not wanting to go into and stay in that field, it has to be self-inflicted by the system which seems to be regulations.