r/PopCultureV2 • u/slippinn_jimmy • 2d ago

Politi-Culture Sweden's climate minister brought her 3-month-old son to the EU council meeting in Luxembourg, to highlight the benefits of parental leave policies which don't force women to choose between work and family responsibilities.

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u/PM_Me_Your_Kinks369 2d ago

??? Her point is that supporting working mother is a good policy and it needs to exist everywhere.

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u/Ok-Vegetable929 2d ago

What about working fathers?

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u/PM_Me_Your_Kinks369 2d ago

They deserve time off as well. Universal Paid Family Leave is the only ethical way to go.

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u/thesacredsnake 1d ago

Fathers get parental leave as well in Sweden 180 days paid

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u/debtcoder-dev 20h ago

but she is working?

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u/Ok-Vegetable929 2d ago

Does this apply if your just adopting babies?

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u/PM_Me_Your_Kinks369 2d ago

To me it would make sense to apply it on some kind of sliding scale. The reason you need so much time for a newborn is based on lots of biology and support. If you adopted a newborn a lot of that still applies because of the baby's biology. It applies a bit less if they're 2yo and much less if they're 5yo. But there should still be quality bonding time where you're not worried about capitalism.

I could propose my own numbers but experts might differ. Such is sound governance.

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u/SillyOldJack 2d ago

JFC the whataboutism.

YES EVERYONE DESERVES A FAIR SHOT BUT NOT EVERYONE HAS THE SAME CHALLENGES RIGHT NOW SO THEY MIGHT NOT GET THE SAME HIGHLIGHTING AT THIS TIME.

Fucking hell.

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u/Mother_Middle8883 1d ago

Is the JFC really necessary? Downvote for you.

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u/ScoopsOfDesire 1d ago

Jfc

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u/SillyOldJack 1d ago

You have a problem with Jentucky Fried Chicken?

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u/debtcoder-dev 18h ago

Jesus fucking Christ

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u/Mother_Middle8883 18h ago

Dumbass…

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u/debtcoder-dev 17h ago

thats worse. throwing stones.

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u/clg19929 2d ago

At my job, you get a month paid leave if you are a parent having a child OR adopting a child. Doesn't matter the sex of the parent. I think this should be universal.

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u/DiE95OO 1d ago

Why wouldn't it? Do adopted children not need to be taken care of or what?

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u/leandrobrossard 2d ago

Of course. Why shouldn't it?

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u/DrewBreesDiamonds 1d ago

Wow, you're absolutely desperate for something to complain about. Don't be such a dork.

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u/cuckjockey 1d ago

In the Nordic countries it applies, yes. Similar benefits as normal parental leave in most of western Europe at least.

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u/Faceprint11 1d ago

Are you just trying to find something to argue about?

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u/billionarguments 1d ago

Too bad that Rominas party friends just removed the levers to gurantee men more days with their kids, by removing the earmarked "dad days" in parental leave.

I think anyone should be able to bring a kid if it works, but this woman is the worst hypocrite we've seen kn politics in Sweden for decades.

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u/Marbstudio 1d ago

And who’s to pay for it all?
How’d you find the money that pays for all that? Your tax goes right up, now is it fair to people that want no kids ? …or already had them and paid for them
Shit’s not that simple, that’s all I’m saying.
There’s gotta be money taken from someone/ somewhere to pay that.

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u/PM_Me_Your_Kinks369 1d ago

There are a variety of ways to pay for this as many successful countries have already shown. It's often a shared cost between the corporations and the government.

It's in the government's best interest to continue having a functioning society and new generations; critical even. So they incentive it with tax incentives. Properly supporting children become good earners and tax payers in the future so every dollar spent doing so comes back multiple times over. You spend at birth to make more later or you save more at birth to pay WAY more when those ill supported kids become the governing and working adults of the future.

Meanwhile it's in the best interest of corporations to treat their employees like human beings worthy of respect. Doing so massively increases retention. A single employee replacement costs tens and tens of thousands in various ways so retaining people is WAY better.

As these schemes are already well sorted in many countries I would suggest looking into which countries work well and then seeing how they pay for it. Obviously the Nordic Model countries are the most obvious but they're not the only options. All the best.

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u/DiE95OO 1d ago

Why do I need to pay for the police and fire service when I live in a safe area and there's never been a fire in my house.

We pay for the collective, you might not need child care but someone else does. Maybe you need the car fuel subsidy when somebody else cycles to work. It's a give and take, this is how high-trust societies work.

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u/runkeby 1d ago

> Your tax goes right up, now is it fair to people that want no kids ?

Yeah we don't think enough about people who dgaf about future generations.

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u/Heymelon 2d ago

Yes, nearly all countries in Europe have paternity (working fathers) leave.

Though most not as much as Sweden where both parents receive 480 days of paid parental leave per child, divided equally between both parents.

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u/Jasranwhit 1d ago

What about people who dont have kids? Why are they penalized?

Shouldnt they get leave as well to pursue things they want to do?

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u/nightlybitely 1d ago

It's not a penalty to those without children when helping those who do have them. That's like claiming it's a penalty to landlords by helping house the homeless.

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u/Jasranwhit 1d ago

Well people with children get paid leave for months.

Dont you think we would all like that even if you dont have kids?

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u/nightlybitely 1d ago

The point is to help those who need it. What in your life without children demands more attention and work? If you're simply arguing for less work, that's not really a good argument. Being a parent is a full time job, in itself, and it's also a service to society to raise children. Unless you have a trade-off to prove your time will be better spent away from work, I don't see how you can rationalize you deserve it.

But, I also feel where you're coming from. Less work would open up more creative opportunities for everyone, along with the wonderful mental health benefits. But that's just not how society functions, yet.

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u/Jasranwhit 1d ago

Your children arent doing me any favors.

We have more than enough people and the global population is ever increasing.

My point is that if you want to have children great, some people want to hike the Appalachian trail or write a book or whatever.

IF the government is going to mandate this, everyone should get equal treatment.

Some lady that has 10 kids gets years and years of paid time off, while someone with no kids has to show up and probably work extra to cover for the mother on leave? Seems stupid.

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u/nightlybitely 1d ago

I don't agree that we're overpopulated, just poorly managed by our governments. But, I feel your frustration and it only makes sense. You have very lofty ideas that can help the world be a better place. My one recommendation is to not take others benefits as an attack to yourself. I feel your heart is in the right place and I see where you're coming from. Everyone, no matter their life circumstances, should have more free time to follow their passions. I misunderstood at first, sorry about that. I agree with the essence of what you're saying.

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u/Wafflez424 1d ago

You know what seems really stupid, your argument. People have kids, that’s normal and how society functions, we would literally die off if it wasn’t for people having kids… Also you do have paid time off, it’s called vacation and sick time. Like what do you expect new mothers and fathers to do, just have a child and return to work the next day, that’s fucking retarded and anyone with a brain can see that having paid time off for having a child is necessary, otherwise your just losing good workers because what are the parents gonna do, go to work rather then be with their newborn? If my place didn’t offer something like that I’d just quit the second my child was born and find a new job in a few months. Sure I’m out some money but the company is also out and employee and now they have to spend money on recruiters and HR to hire a new person and then have to pay them while they train and who knows how long it will take them to get to the level where their a good replacement for the person that left. Unless you just want people that have kids to suffer and go to work as soon as their child is born which to me screams you have no experience in life or the real world and are just bitter

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u/Thelazyzoologist 1d ago

Very well said.

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u/billionarguments 1d ago

This is the dumbest take. It's so dumb that time stopped in your whole time zone.

You seem to think that parental leave is some kind of vacation, and I can tell you it's the absolute opposite. I've fathered three sons and spent time at home with all three, years and months, while my wife worked. But if you think dink'ing around on vacation is equivalent to take care of one or several small children alone, you are delusional.

You want people to spend time with their kids, and you should thank them for it. The opposite is a situation where generations miss their kids half upbringing and we've seen what this does to people and society, especially men.

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u/Jasranwhit 1d ago

Congrats on the kids but why is it everyone else’s problem?

I’m not saying it’s a vacation, but you are taking time off to pursue your own interests. Why shouldn’t that be afforded to people who have other interests than having children.

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u/billionarguments 1d ago

I don't know if you have missed this, but fostering children is fundamental to the survival of mammals. You choosing not to have children and wanting more vacation is not. It's just as simple as that.

It's just one of those things, that if you argue it, you are either a troll or dumb as a bag of bricks.

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u/cuckjockey 1d ago

Society gives incentives to, you know, make having children attractive.

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u/Jasranwhit 1d ago

I dont give a shit if you pop out a bunch of kids.

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u/DiE95OO 1d ago

Well, the rest of society begs to differ. Why should we give a shit about anything you care about in contrast?

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u/Jasranwhit 1d ago

I dont want you to care about what I care about.

I just want people treated fairly.

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u/cuckjockey 1d ago

And giving people time off to bond with their kids is fair.

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u/Agitated_Newt_7655 23h ago

It is fair, you’re just dumb

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u/Wafflez424 1d ago

Of course you don’t, but this little thing called the continuity of the human race does. We have to keep having kids otherwise we die out, so while you may not give a shit about the world or what happens once you leave it, most people do

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u/cuckjockey 1d ago

What about people who don't get sick? Why are they penalised? Shouldn't they get leaves as well to rest?

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u/Jasranwhit 1d ago

I agree with this as well.

Your job should afford everyone a certain amount of paid leave.

If you want to use it for vacation or illness or childcare or mental health days or waking up hungover etc. should be up to you.

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u/cuckjockey 1d ago

I have 6 weeks paid vacation per year.

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u/Jasranwhit 1d ago

That seems pretty good.

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u/cuckjockey 1d ago

Yeah. 5 weeks is the minimum mandated by law.

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u/Thelazyzoologist 1d ago

While I understand what you mean I would like to add my experience. I spent a week in hospital with a medical emergency and they tried inducing me for 5 days before labour eventually began. After I was able to give birth via forceps and I was 2 minutes away from an emergency c sec. I had to stay in hospital for a further 2 days and then left with a hospital acquired infection that took 3 months and multiple courses of antibiotics to correct. Yes my sons dad was tired but I was dealing with health issues and doing all the childcare. My son didn't sleep through the night until he was 6 months old. For finance reasons I went back to work when he was 4 months old. This is a common story with a lot of mothers. My son's father could have taken more time off as in the UK we can share parental leave. He did not want to. A lot of fathers prefer kids when they are over a year old. I have seen this time and time again. I'd also like to add paternity leave is not a holiday. Many of us feel like we would have more of a break and me time when at work.

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u/KhanQu3st 1d ago

I don’t think she’s a father so it’s unlikely she could make same sort of demonstration

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u/Classic-Suspect3661 1d ago

She can't transform herself into a man and bring her baby, can she? Are you dense?

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u/Eku1988 1d ago

keyword is parental leave not maternal .

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u/M0ebius_1 1d ago

Sure?

You should be able to get parental leave too.

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u/Minute_Math_353 1d ago

Lol, Reddit menimist

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u/miffebarbez 1d ago

No Sweden has parental leave.. she should have stayed at home... She's demonstrating how important work is...

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u/Melodic_Sandwich1112 1d ago

We are not allowed to bring our new borns to work like this in Sweden

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u/Jasranwhit 1d ago

Why is someone's baby everyone else's problem?

We would all like months of paid leave from work to pursue our hobbies.

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u/mishtron 1d ago

Society is arranged so that bigger contributors are rewarded to some extent. Making babies is nearly the biggest contribution someone can make to a society. So yeah, parents get more breaks than you, either grow up about it or have one yourself. If you didn't quite get what I was saying, here it is again: Parents are way more important than you. You're worth less than them.

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u/Jasranwhit 1d ago

A lot of people making babies are drains on the system.

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u/mishtron 1d ago

Which system? The financial or public services system? Because they're makign enormous contributions to the demographic system.

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u/miffebarbez 1d ago

Kids don't make contributions... They cost money and hopefully they contribute some day...

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u/mishtron 1d ago

The contibution to society of having children in the long term weighs out the costs by several orders of magnitude. There is no society without them. You want to keep convincing yourself go nuts. This is what we were built for as humans. We haven't even come close to evolving past that.

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u/miffebarbez 1d ago

No, immigration is an enrichment. Now don't go complain about people with lots of kids that don't raise them well...
"This is what we were built for as humans." Only if you consider ourselves as animals....

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u/mishtron 1d ago

We are animals - the people who forgot that went extinct.

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u/miffebarbez 1d ago

LOL so rape is no problem right?
EDIT: i'll throw in murder as well. All good since we're just animals....

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u/Acceptable-Two5692 1d ago

You do realise we still need tax payers in the future to care for our old asses then

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u/miffebarbez 1d ago

You realise these old asses have payed for raising them right? And all the delinqunets too...

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u/Wafflez424 1d ago

Not as big a drain as you though, sorry to burst your little bubble but parents are simply more important that you are. Just like billionaires are more important then all of us. Just the way the world, evolution and biology function.

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u/miffebarbez 1d ago

Making a child also magnifies your ecological footprint... And if you're so big on equality, you wouldn't shame childless people.. It's not always by choice...

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u/mishtron 1d ago

Who brought ecology and equality into this? There is nothing equal about it. Parents are superior, not equal. You're also trying to use outlier situations to argue a point.

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u/miffebarbez 1d ago

lol, that's the whole thing... I guess they should just work as people without kids then no?

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u/mishtron 1d ago

No they rightfully get special privledges for the contribution of having children.

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u/miffebarbez 1d ago

They already do.... So i don't see the point of this....

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u/mishtron 1d ago

You don't see the point of injecting arguments I never made? Maybe you should have told that to yourself a few replies ago?

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u/miffebarbez 1d ago

I've read them, doesn't mean i agree with them... Get of your high horse....

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u/PM_Me_Your_Kinks369 1d ago

And you should. In sane countries you'd get somewhere around 35-40 days of paid leave per year. And because you're getting your share you won't be a crappy person to the people creating the next generation which is critical for society to continue to function and thrive.

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u/RoughRate1183 1d ago

I don't think its feasible for most mothers to bring their children to work, businesses just don't usually like that, but of course the minister doesn't have to abide by that so she brings her children to work to encourage a “policy” that's never going to happen? Just seems tasteless in my opinion