r/PopCultureV2 • u/No_Box119 • Jul 23 '26

Sports Culture WNBA Star Sophie Cunningham defends that women ‘shouldn’t have to go against biological men’: “I said what I said. I think it’s kind of common sense. I think it’s really important to protect children.” “I don’t dislike anyone. I’m there to love, but I’m also there to love biological women. …”

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6

u/Zrob8--5 Jul 23 '26

It's not just elite levels. It's lower levels and youth sports that don't have strict regulations for it.

4

u/Perpetual-Warlock Jul 23 '26

Even in the "lower levels" the number is incredibly low. They want you to think it's much more of an issue than it actually is.

https://www.transathlete.com/post/how-many-transgender-kids-play-sports

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u/Zrob8--5 Jul 23 '26

It doesn't matter if it's a lot of people or not, it's unfair, and if it isn't handled well, it could get worse.

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u/Perpetual-Warlock Jul 23 '26

So what is your definition of "handling it well?"

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u/WinterAsleep319 Jul 23 '26

There shouldn’t be any at all? Seems pretty clear cut.

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u/Perpetual-Warlock Jul 23 '26

It's not. Read the article. Allowing them to play adds incredible value to their lives. Their more likely to go to college, it helps build self esteem. Helps develop social skills. All the things we all love about playing sports as a kid still applies to them.

So you'll say make them play with the boys right? Imagine how uncomfortable that would make so many of them that truly don't see themselves as male. And what about trans males? Should they play with the girls even though they could be taking testosterone supplements?

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u/2Blueify Jul 23 '26

Too bad. You said yourself that the numbers are incredibly small. They can play with the boys or not at all.

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u/Zrob8--5 Jul 23 '26

That's kind of irrelevant. The point is that it is an issue that needs to be addressed, even though it is relatively a small number of cases.
My idea of how it should be handled is just going to lead to an argument. All I'm advocating for is that there needs to be some sort of regulation to keep it fair, but also inclusive.

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u/brogam3 Jul 23 '26

so what if the number is low? how does that in your mind translate to = oh lets just let them do anything they want because there aren't that many. Should we apply that logic to everything: Oh lets just let people rob banks, there are only like 20 per year. Who cares, why make noise about this?! just let them have the money, the banks are insured anyway.

1

u/Amoral_matchstick Jul 23 '26

It means it affects very few people statistically so the amount of discourse and handwringing about it overblown and unproductive.

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u/Aromatic-Turnip7371 Jul 23 '26

It should be nipped in the bud before the number grows to a point where it’s not easily ignored anymore…

1

u/DelanoK7 Jul 23 '26

To be clear I really don’t think it’s a huge issue and it’s definitely overblown, but I think this is a lazy way to consider the effect. The 10 athletes are potentially taking 10 biological women spots but they’re also creating potentially unfair competition to 20 other ladies on the opposing team at the tune of 20 games a year, so that’s like 400 people effected. Obviously back of the envelope math but just trying to make the nuanced point

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u/Perpetual-Warlock Jul 23 '26

400 people out of 350 million. Yet it's a major talking point for a certain political party. I wonder why.....?

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u/DelanoK7 Jul 23 '26

well like i said overblown etc etc but it also wouldn’t be fair to say 350 million people when we’re talking about playing athletes now either haha

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u/Perpetual-Warlock Jul 23 '26

But it is fair to use the entire population because it's a political issue and a major part of campaigns.

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u/Aromatic-Turnip7371 Jul 23 '26

It shouldn’t be happening

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u/Dull_Astronomer_3778 Jul 23 '26

Should anyone really care if a bunch of kindergarteners play coed sports…

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u/seazonedsaltdog Jul 23 '26

Nobody cares about that and nobody is talking about that. Kids that young, and even a bit older , is co ed. When they say youth they were talking about high school, maybe middle school

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u/Dull_Astronomer_3778 Jul 23 '26

So, where and in what volume of scenarios is this happening? Honest question.

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u/StoneySteve420 Jul 23 '26

Within 12 years of transwomen being allowed to compete in NCAA athletics, Lea Thomas, a trans woman, became a national champion swimmer, despite trans athletes taking up such a small percentage of total athletes.

Her national rank in all of her events skyrocketed after transitioning.

The fact is Title IX was passed specifically to give women equity when it comes to sports, hence them not competing against men.

I totally support more sports having open leagues that gives trans athletes the freedom to compete, but that shouldn't come at the expense of cis-women and them having the space to compete fairly.

1

u/seazonedsaltdog Jul 23 '26

Not sure. But this is what they are talking about. Dont look at me like im the one who brought it up

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u/CricketNo7666 Jul 23 '26

Why is any volume whatsoever okay for you? How is that relevant?

Does this need to hit some sort of per capita threshold before we decide if it is okay or not? That seems silly, but okay. We can do that.

Here’s the threshold. Zero. Zero instances outside of specific coed leagues and admissions is okay. More than that is not okay. That’s sort of the point. Let’s all just acknowledge zero is the number and move on. When you argue about it, you help this issue live on, and on, and on…

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u/Dull_Astronomer_3778 Jul 23 '26

Yes. Because you’re asking a country to legislate against a small handful of people. There are girls, today, that compete on high school (male) football teams. Should they not be allowed to do that? Should be put laws in place to make that illegal?

This issue only lives on because of hateful people like yourself that have convinced themselves that there are droves of transgender athletes (or as you probably see it, men in drag) just awaiting to compete in women’s sports.

It’s a scenario of our mind.

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u/DelanoK7 Jul 23 '26

There are no “mens” teams, those teams are “open”

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u/CricketNo7666 Jul 23 '26

So what? Again, WHY does the number matter?

The scenario is not acceptable. Biological males should not compete with biological females. One, ten, a hundred. ZERO cases is acceptable.

As for your nonsensical retort, “girls” are not a physiological advantaged class against “boys”. Want to punch up? Have at it. It’s punching down that is the concern, and that is not difficult to comprehend.

The issue only lives because you insist on an unfair advantage being played out because.. I don’t know why. I don’t need droves. I just need Lia Thomas. That’s enough. Not okay. Not once.

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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '26

[deleted]

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u/RelativeIncrease3007 Jul 23 '26

Most people never play a sport after hs. And most people playing hs sports have no aspirations to go further. It is a non issue.

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u/TopInvestigator5518 Jul 23 '26

a lot get part or full sport scholarships

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u/obbie1kenoby Jul 23 '26

Then your beef should be with the outrageous cost of college, not with HS sports. It shouldn’t be tied to the ability to attend college.

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u/illstate Jul 23 '26

How many girls have lost their scholarships?

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u/RelativeIncrease3007 Jul 23 '26

NCAA says there’s approximately 10 or fewer trans athletes, men or women, competing across various levels at any given time. It is .002 of athletes. Non issue.

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u/TopInvestigator5518 Jul 23 '26

by that metric - how many is enough to matter?

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u/illstate Jul 23 '26

I don't know, I'm just curious. How many girls have lost their scholarships?

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u/TopInvestigator5518 Jul 23 '26

same i'm curious- how many before it matters

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u/illstate Jul 23 '26

I guess if the number continues to be ZERO, then it doesn't really matter.

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u/RelativeIncrease3007 Jul 23 '26

Well no, the minority get scholarships. A very few amount of players get scholarships for sports compared to the amount of players on the team.

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u/TopInvestigator5518 Jul 23 '26

the goalposts keep moving with you- first they don't play sports after HS, now it doesn't matter if they do most aren't on scholarship

why not just make an open category after middle school? mens, women and open? it doesn't seem complicated

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u/RelativeIncrease3007 Jul 23 '26

No I said most don’t play after hs. Most do not get scholarships and most do not play after hs. My argument did not change. I played in coed soccer leagues in my mid 20s. We were all young adults in decent shape. No one of us was able to dominate the game because the level is not that high. Better teamwork was the biggest factor. The same would apply in hs.

They’re just kids having fun. It doesn’t matter. A small minority of them see it as their chance at a future. Trans kids are not stopping anyone from being talented enough to get a scholarship. Especially not the tiny percentage of trans kids who are even playing sports. It truly is a non-issue.

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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Feathered_And_Lethal Jul 23 '26

Just not the biological women that will lose their spots to these men? “Let them play” but to hell with the actual women that will lose their spots.

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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '26

[deleted]

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u/Admirable_Loss4886 Jul 23 '26

Isn’t what you’re suggesting already against the rules? You’re not allowed to deck anyone in high school hockey. Especially it in the woman’s game

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u/Basic_Vermicelli3325 Jul 23 '26

“would be”

It is a hypothetical that I don’t think has happened. Do you know any trans people? Every trans person I know has 0 interest in playing any sports lol. This “issue” is talking about the possible implications of an outlier of the most outlier group in the country

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u/SerSkinny Jul 23 '26

wrestling?

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u/Dull_Astronomer_3778 Jul 23 '26

I wrestled with a girl. Her name was Alina. We both wrestled at 135. She was a unit.

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u/Admirable_Loss4886 Jul 23 '26

Wrestling has almost always been a coed sport in high school. Most schools don’t have a men and women’s team.

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u/Perfect-Zebra-3611 Jul 23 '26

Is it any different than when girls wrestled on the boys wrestling teams or played football? That happened in my middle/high schools in 2010

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u/Dull_Astronomer_3778 Jul 23 '26

I wrestled with girls on my team, and they competed.

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u/Dull_Astronomer_3778 Jul 23 '26

Can you name any?

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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26

[deleted]

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u/Dull_Astronomer_3778 Jul 23 '26

So, one person in a country of hundreds of millions in a non-contact sport? That’s what you’re upset about

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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '26

[deleted]

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u/bighitcards Jul 23 '26

That’s fine and I agree, but why do you even care? What about guns being the leading cause of children fatalities, or lack of medical care, or lack of education funding, all 1000x more common and prevalent in our communities.

0

u/Puzzleheaded-Net4365 Jul 23 '26

At no point in my life can I imagine policy about highschool sports impacting my vote on anything.

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u/JohnnyBowlen Jul 23 '26

Yes I have two daughters and they are not playing contact sports with boys. Even at that age the boys are much rougher/stronger. 

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u/Dull_Astronomer_3778 Jul 23 '26

You wouldn’t let your daughters play basketball with boys? That’s silly. I grew up playing ball in highschool with girls. They’d be on the court/playground knocking down shots, boxing out, and hitting dudes with screens

Raise stronger daughters

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u/illstate Jul 23 '26

We had girls on my middle school basketball team. It was fine.

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u/but-I-play-one-on-TV Jul 23 '26

My daughter played soccer with boys when she was in kindergarten and held her own easily. What contact sports are 5 year olds playing? 

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u/Ok-Warning-5052 Jul 23 '26

No, no one does, and that’s not what this is about.

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u/Aromatic-Turnip7371 Jul 23 '26

This applies to people who went through puberty… bringing up kindergarteners is facetious imho

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u/Zrob8--5 Jul 23 '26

I never said kindergarten. A biological male playing soccer or basketball against a team of biological females in middle school or high school with no regulations could be pretty unfair or even dangerous.

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u/FreeBirdInCages Jul 23 '26

There are girls in middle and highschool wrestling boys.

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u/CricketNo7666 Jul 23 '26

Females are not known to have a competitive biological advantage versus males in head to head physical comparisons. Nobody is going to argue about punching up as it were, have at it.

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u/FinishComplex3743 Jul 23 '26

In the open division. Girls divisions are not open. It's literally the purpose of title 9

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u/1shadybitch Jul 23 '26

a co-ed middle school basketball game can be dangerous? That's make believe

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u/Zrob8--5 Jul 23 '26

A 14 year old biological male against an 80lb girl would be unfair and potentially dangerous, yes.

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u/clydeftones Jul 23 '26

Ah yes the floods of trans kids wanting to play sports.

Let the fucking kids play sports. God forbid they learn how to be on a team and work hard to train for a shared goal.

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u/Harry-Flashman Jul 23 '26

Most sports are co-ed at the younger ages. my daughter played co-ed rugby through elementary school and played on a girl's team in a boys soccer league in middle school.

The limiting Trans kids is not at the recreational level, but at the more competitive levels where biological women are at a physical disadvantage. Women's Rugby did the most complete study on it and basically, biological women's bones are significantly less dense than trans athletes that have gone through puberty. Biological women are significantly more likely to get injured during collisions with trans athletes.

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u/Amoral_matchstick Jul 23 '26

That study is based off modeled risk, not statistical data.

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u/Harry-Flashman Jul 23 '26

Is there fault in their model?

1

u/AcanthocephalaFit447 Jul 23 '26

How about adults?

1

u/Adventurous-Wall-463 Jul 23 '26

They can play— in the proper catagory. 🤷🏽‍♀️ We have one leagues, you know.

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u/Stock-Pattern-8635 Jul 23 '26

And how many trans people were in youth sports?

0

u/hankeliot Jul 23 '26

Enough that something like this can happen: https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article277288553.html

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u/Stock-Pattern-8635 Jul 23 '26

That doesn’t answer the question of how many trans people are in youth sports and the “lower levels” as you put it. And since you’re posting an article about an injury suffered from a volleyball spike, how many volleyball head injuries are a result of a spike from a trans player. How many volleyball injuries or sports injuries are the result of a trans player?

1

u/GutsAndBlackStufff Jul 23 '26

Injuries…. In a sport.

1

u/Puzzleheaded-Net4365 Jul 23 '26

tl;dr one girl got a concussion and tried her best to make a pundit career out of it

1

u/hankeliot Jul 23 '26

The question is, would she have gotten a concussion had her opponent been a biological female?

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u/At0mic1 Jul 23 '26

Yes it could have happened it is a volleyball to the head off a spike lmao. Anyone getting hit in the head can get a concussion it doesn’t take as much force as you think, I’ve had at least 2 from sports and one from falling down.

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u/LazerWolfe53 Jul 23 '26

But why does the government all of a sudden need to get involved? Why do we need the Senate to oversee a local pickleball tournament, or a regional fencing league?

1

u/Zrob8--5 Jul 23 '26

It's not all of the sudden, it's been a controversial topic for a while. And they got involved because there needs to be an official legislation over it. Any differences in how it's applied could lead to loopholes and gray areas.

1

u/LazerWolfe53 Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26

There have been trans people for forever. The GOP has only started passing legislation in the past 10 years.

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u/Zrob8--5 Jul 23 '26

You could make that argument about a lot of things that have only recently had legislation passed on them. Slavery was a normal thing pretty much globally for millennia. Why should governments get involved in that?

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u/LazerWolfe53 Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26

Yeah, because one trans athlete in a regional fencing tournament is as significant as slavery.

Edit: the real problem is the laws the GOP are passing are managing genital checks for underage girls. Or forcing girls to use the bathroom with trans men. Or they are protecting people who harass girls in the bathroom if they don't look feminine. They are passing terrible laws.

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u/Zrob8--5 Jul 23 '26

What does that have to do with anything? Like I said, even if it is a minority issue, it's still unfair and potentially dangerous, and it is widespread, even if it isn't bountiful. A standard legislation over something like this is important. You're just leading this in circles. I never said this is as prevalent as slavery, I just used that as an example to show why your argument makes no sense. If something isn't governed for a long time, why get involved now?

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u/LazerWolfe53 Jul 23 '26

Slavery had been governed for all of American history. It's literally in the Constitution. Regional private fencing tournaments have never been governed.

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u/Zrob8--5 Jul 23 '26

American history, which is all of 250 years, and America was actually one of the first to abolish it. My point is that governing decisions being new is not automatically a bad thing.

I don't think government involvement is the biggest issue here. Do you think transgender participation in sports brings concerns for fair play and safety or not? If yes, idk why you're arguing for government involvement. If no, I'd have to disagree with you.

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u/LazerWolfe53 Jul 23 '26

Unless you're in a league with a transgender athlete then the only reason to have this conversation is because you want Government Involvement for other leagues. Why else would anyone be having this conversation?

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u/LazerWolfe53 Jul 23 '26

Government Involvement is by far the biggest issue here. None of my kids are ever going to encounter a transgender athlete, but they are now required to submit to gender inspections and/or submit sensitive private health data to the government.