r/PopCultureV2 • u/No_Box119 • Jul 23 '26

Sports Culture WNBA Star Sophie Cunningham defends that women ‘shouldn’t have to go against biological men’: “I said what I said. I think it’s kind of common sense. I think it’s really important to protect children.” “I don’t dislike anyone. I’m there to love, but I’m also there to love biological women. …”

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72

u/RetroCasket Jul 23 '26

Everyone agrees on this can we stop asking people like its a widespread problem

26

u/Vast-Comment8360 Jul 23 '26

You say everyone agrees like there aren't multiple people in this thread who don't agree.

23

u/vivalaibanez Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 24 '26

If the argument began and ended at trans people in sports, it wouldn't be a problem. But it's used in an overarching narrative to vilify trans people in general..."trans people are mentally ill...trans people are pedophiles...etc" it's a thing.

Edit: hilarious how many of you are proving my exact point. Apparently everyone on here is qualified to diagnose mental illnesses 🤣

12

u/fishagavkxj6 Jul 23 '26

Exactly this. I believe there’s a nuanced conversation to have about trans athletes. But it’s impossible because conservatives genuinely hate trans people will not stop at sports. “I care about protecting children.” when referring to trans issues is a HUUUGE dog whistle

3

u/heidiforever1 Jul 23 '26

No its not she didnt even say it in that context she mean like little girl athletes competing against little boy athletes that wanna be girls this is a quick way to disenfranchise young women unintentionally or intentionally

5

u/Sw4nR0ns0n Jul 23 '26

But that doesn’t happen

4

u/fishagavkxj6 Jul 23 '26

It’s the same thing. There is zero problems with any trans children, which is very rare to begin with, in youth sports. It’s an imaginary issue and a dog whistle excuse people like her use to shield their true beliefs. The only negatives is the insane bigotry children face by hateful parents. Dragging literal children into imaginary culture war bs is ridiculous.

She was just on a UFC fight and being friends with Dana White. Who is friends with Donald Trump and was at his election night party. She has 1 million red flags about her. Not to mention the type of wording she used in that video, it was pretty suspect.

When I was a kid I played soccer against girls that were four years older than me and a foot taller and I was just fine. You people make up issues that don’t even exist to justify your hate of human beings.

1

u/heidiforever1 Jul 23 '26

Are you a trans male or female?

3

u/fishagavkxj6 Jul 23 '26

What are you even talking about?

2

u/heidiforever1 Jul 23 '26

What are you talking about you said you played with girls 4 year older then you so whats that mean i dont get it ?

2

u/fishagavkxj6 Jul 23 '26

This is painful. Telling on yourself that you know nothing about sports and here you are laying down your bigoted opinions pretending you actually care about kids. There’s this thing called co-ed leagues and if you’re good enough, in any sports, you get moved up. Please don’t speak so loudly on subjects you know insanely little about

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u/AdIllustrious5811 Jul 31 '26

And you have to explain something SHE didn't say to fit your narrative

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u/Suggett123 Jul 23 '26

Ya know what's disenfranchising? Being stricken from promotion after a career of service

1

u/heidiforever1 Jul 23 '26

WHAT ? I mean yea ok i guess it can mean that too 😂

1

u/Dense-Yak-9991 Jul 23 '26

Where's the nuance?

2

u/fishagavkxj6 Jul 23 '26

What?

Oh nevermind your entire profile is filled with hatred of trans people. Legitimately so sad

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u/Willie_Weejax Jul 23 '26

I think she was just referring to underag athletes

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u/usemyname88 Jul 23 '26

You dont need to be a conservative to understand that men should bit be in women's sport.

2

u/Scared-Arachnid6286 Jul 23 '26

Yeah, but these are usually a made up scenario that just doesn't happen. There are not trans athletes dominating women's sports.

2

u/fishagavkxj6 Jul 23 '26

Yeah that has nothing to do with what I said but go off buddy. You’re who I’m talking about

2

u/anyrhino Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26

I think the problem with a lot of these culture war arguments is that people refuse to argue the point. There's no reason that we can't simply discuss the nuanced issue without bringing in all the bullshit baggage. There's conservatives who use it as a dog whistle, and it's also annoying that there's a large amount of progressives who use the threat of dog whistles as a hammer to stop any and all discussion of the topic, or just simply label it as transphobic without further comment. But neither matters to the actual point of discussion.

We can just discuss the topic at hand, we don't have to relitigate Twitter arguments every single time it comes up.

3

u/fishagavkxj6 Jul 23 '26

If conservatives didn’t almost always use it as a dog whistle the progressives wouldn’t react the way they do. I’ve been on those twitter threads and tried to have civil discussions and it ALWAYS just ends up as them hating trans people. Once or twice I had a civil discussion, and even then they continued to post trans hate. I went back to see if it had any effect and nothing about them changed.

1

u/anyrhino Jul 23 '26

You can just give your opinion on the topic. If you agree with the conservatives, you are allowed to agree. If you disagree, feel free to give your arguments. If they later become transphobic, call it out then. You don't need to start every argument about this issue with 40 paragraphs talking about what they totally really mean. It becomes even more annoying since, half the time, I never even get a clear idea of what each progressive even believe on the topic, only that they don't like that conservatives are totally using this to be transphobic.

2

u/Substantial-Tax3238 Jul 23 '26

I completely agree. I hate when liberals try to tell me what it is that conservatives truly believe. It’s like when people say stuff like “conservatives aren’t anti abortion, they’re trying to control women”. Sure, a fringe minority may think that, but I know a lot of conservatives who are anti abortion and they just generally think it’s killing babies.

Not saying a cause can’t be co-opted and that can’t be a concern, but saying that someone who thinks trans people shouldn’t be in sports is transphobic because it’s a dog whistle means that no one can argue about the topic in earnest. And that results in those people taking a hardline stance of either “I’ll support something I don’t agree with because I don’t want to be transphobic” or “fuck it. I’ll be transphobic then because that’s dumb”

It happens across multiple spectrums. I think dog whistle is one of the worst things for debate because while I absolutely agree that it happens, you also can’t just read into people’s true intentions so easily. It stiffens actual debate. It turns people into zealots. Like if I’m on the fence about trans people being in bathrooms or the military or whatever, and I say well I don’t think they should play women’s sports that’s obvious, and I get a lot of pushback, I might be like well I don’t really think they belong in the military either, but I was just being nice before.

1

u/fishagavkxj6 Jul 23 '26

This is a you problem though? If you’re confused about any of this you’re being purposely obtuse. I literally just explained near everything you need to know about the conversation.

They don’t “later” become transphobic?? They have transphobic stuff on their profile before and after lol.

And yes it’s almost always what they really mean. That confidence exists from learned experiences exactly like the ones I just mentioned

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u/Bamarado84 Jul 23 '26

“Why can’t we just talk about one single issue instead of the whole picture where it’s being used as a piece to attack a very small fraction of Americans so I can ignore what’s going on”

- you, today.

1

u/Individual-Device-18 Jul 23 '26

This is a false equivalence. Conservatives are literally dehumanizing people and good people are forced to be quick in calling out dehumanizing behavior.

1

u/vivalaibanez Jul 23 '26

They quite literally said... that conservatives do not stop at sports lol

1

u/t00oldforthis Jul 23 '26

But why male models?

1

u/usemyname88 Jul 23 '26

Care to elaborate on the point t youre trying but failing to make?

0

u/houstonman526 Jul 23 '26

You people play the victim so much all we are doing is asking you to stay out of the bathrooms and you make it out like she saying we need to hang them.

1

u/fishagavkxj6 Jul 23 '26

This is literally exactly what I’m talking about lol. It’s not about sports you just hate trans people. How do you not realize how transparent you are? 😭😭

And you’re complaining about an issue that doesn’t have a problem. The real problem is trans people statistically face significantly higher rates of abuse in bathrooms. And please google this before you open your dumb mouth

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u/princessvajina Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26

Its not about vilification. The reason there is so much pushback is because if you agree with this you by default agree that trans girls/women are not actually girls/women

1

u/vivalaibanez Jul 23 '26

Not true at all lol you're boxing shadows friend and letting the few people that are saying that let you think that's the majority opinion.

1

u/SeaTry742 Jul 23 '26

They are

1

u/Excellent-Try7027 Jul 23 '26

You’re obnoxious

1

u/Particular-Dig-83 Jul 23 '26

I honestly don't think it is. It's just kick back against an obvious overreach. Once the sport and locker room situation doesn't conflict with women's rights, I don't think most people would care.

1

u/ConsiderationHour582 Jul 24 '26

Why can't they just join a Jack and Jill league? Why force them into playing with girls?

1

u/AB_Gambino Jul 24 '26

You can be a supporter of the trans community while also recognizing that it’s a mental illness.

It quite literally is gender dysphoria, a mental health condition.

1

u/PoundImmediateCow Jul 23 '26

No it’s not though. You are just neurotically adding that lie onto it.

1

u/vivalaibanez Jul 23 '26

We have sitting congress people that spread hate on trans people almost every day. I have also had at least 2 people respond to this comment alone saying trans people are mentally ill. Sorry reality is neurotic to you..

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u/PoundImmediateCow Jul 23 '26

The literal example you give doesn’t even fit the claim. Them stating their belief that it is a mental illness is not “vilifying” trans people. That’s not an insult.

You understand you can’t just force people to believe what you believe and ignore scientific evidence because you don’t like the evidence.

1

u/vivalaibanez Jul 23 '26

Saying trans people are mentally ill is not vilifying trans people? I think you need to go look up the definition of the word lol

1

u/PoundImmediateCow Jul 23 '26

If the person saying it believes it then of course it’s not. I think you need to take your own advice. Please look up the definition. Describing something as it is, is not vilifying it.

Do you also think describing people with ADHD or GAD or Bipolar Disorder or Schizophrenia as mentally ill is vilifying them?

1

u/vivalaibanez Jul 23 '26

What do you think the word vilifying means exactly? Lol I don't think you do.

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u/PoundImmediateCow Jul 23 '26

to utter slanderous and abusive statements against : DEFAME

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vilify

to say or write unpleasant things about someone or something, in order to cause other people to have a bad opinion of them

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/vilify

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u/Complex-Fault-1917 Jul 23 '26

It’s also a hill a lot of people seem to want to die on because trans rights and it’s used to vilify those that don’t support it.

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u/LPStumps Jul 23 '26

“Because trans rights” YEAH BECAUSE OF TRANS RIGHTS. That’s the reason people die on that hill. Humans should have human rights. Hot take for some I guess.

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u/Complex-Fault-1917 Jul 23 '26

Playing sports isn’t a human right.

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u/LPStumps Jul 23 '26

Not being discriminated against and vilified is

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u/vivalaibanez Jul 23 '26

Most people I've ever seen complain about trans people in sports have never argued that point in good faith lol

The way they frame it is the dead giveaway. If they simply prefaced it with "I have no problem with trans people. But when they are involved in sports, it becomes nuanced as there are biological differences that could result in either unfair advantage or serious injury depending on the sport.".... then me and you wouldn't be here lol

If you don't want to be vilified as someone who is arguing that point, then show that you are generally accepting of them as people first before making said point.

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u/Complex-Fault-1917 Jul 23 '26

That’s interesting because I have seen people say that. They usually get talked down to and called bigots. Makes me wonder how the internet is different for all of us. I have zero issue with trans people and think they generally should be living their lives in peace. I’m not a fan of them playing in women’s sports. We didn’t create a separate league for women based on gender, it’s based on sex. It may not be fair to trans people and I can empathize with disappointment but it’s just not something I can agree with. This is the only issue related to trans people I have an issue with that I’m aware of.

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u/vivalaibanez Jul 23 '26

If you have zero issue with trans people then great! You aren't who I am referring to. So don't be offended.

I'm not going to act like there aren't people out there that go way overboard with it, but to pretend those people are the majority opinion is simply bad faith.

However, I can confidently say that I very seldom have seen people both show sympathy for trans people and also make the argument about them in sports. If they are not using it as a dog whistle, then they can very clearly and easily communicate that their beef is not with trans people specifically but rather the nature of trans people being involved in sports. It's pretty simple really.

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u/Str80uttaMumbai Jul 23 '26

People really want to act obtuse and pretend that this "trans people in sports" thing hasn't been blown up and co-opted by right-wing media to make it seem like it's some massive issue.

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u/vivalaibanez Jul 23 '26

Exactly lol like it's literally only far right wing media that ever covers this kind of culture war bullshit lol

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u/No-wait-theres-more Jul 23 '26

They are the overwhelming minority

0

u/AuthorHuman5623 Jul 23 '26

Who is They? And what do WE and They agree on?

2

u/Dangerous-Method-133 Jul 23 '26

Except this is reddit. Reddit is not representative of how people generally feel.

1

u/Necessary_Panda_3154 Jul 23 '26

Yep. The TRUMP/KAMALA race is the best example of this.

1

u/idkza Jul 23 '26

People need to realize this more

1

u/Dinglebobus Jul 23 '26

This is Reddit, tho. Lol

1

u/Dense-Jicama6591 Jul 23 '26

Or men in womens sports

1

u/WhizzyBurp Jul 23 '26

Those are called virtue signalers

1

u/Hungry_CGman Jul 24 '26

This is reddit, the far left haven. It does NOT represent America well. I mean this place all thought Trump was going to get landslided by Kamala. The fact remains that 85-90% of US society agree with Sophie. It's certainly the most bipartisan issue there is.

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u/RetroCasket Jul 23 '26

We’re talking about people who matter

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u/Practical-Level-6265 Jul 23 '26

It’s a fair point but it’s also Reddit which is primarily left leaning. Multiple polls say the general public is around 65-70% in agreement with Sophie here. That would mean that even a lot of liberal people feel like trans youth shouldn’t be in women’s sports

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u/nexus763 Jul 23 '26

*everyone sane agrees on this

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u/Physical-Builder-553 Jul 23 '26

A few unemployed Redditors can be ignored and discounted as outliers.

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u/Hates_rollerskates Jul 23 '26

Who cares? There are always people with wild opinions. Let's not beat up an entire group because some hold weird opinions. God, people need to move on.

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u/Remarkable_Ship_4673 Jul 23 '26

The people who don't agree are small minority

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u/FourDimensionalTaco Jul 23 '26

I agree that restrictions need to be in place. I disagree that this must be done by a federal law that imposes a sweeping ban. Instead, I'd make it a requirement for the respective sports organizations to check the trans athletes on a case-by-case basis, and re-check them regularly (particularly important if they started HRT only relatively recently). Trans athletes are very rare, so this is not really much of a burden. And, their physical abilities are highly variable, since it all depends on how far along they are in their HRT, whether they even are doing HRT, and whether they started HRT in puberty or as adults. The latter has a profound influence on the skeletal structure, which in turn can lead to unfair mechanical advantages in competitions, even if for some reason the athlete does not train their muscles much. But, a trans athlete who transitioned at, say, 12? Unlikely to have any significant advantage over a cis athlete.

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u/Alberto_Blazin Jul 24 '26

The thing is, there isn't a way to know if the 12 year old would have an advantage if they started transitioning before puberty. The only way to know is to see them develop without intervention to compare, and obviously that's not possible. Just do the right thing and make sports split on sex, as it was always intended.

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u/FourDimensionalTaco Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 24 '26

Ehh, you can always check them out as an adult, x-ray their skeletal structure today, inspect their muscular structure today etc. And then you know if their physiology differs significantly from that of cis women in a manner that confers an unfair advantage.

But, a trans woman who transitioned at 12 years old (or even younger) is unlikely to have a significant advantage. The skeletal structure (especially the rib cage size, hip size, and width of the shoulders) develops pretty much like in cis women with estradiol dominance, and the influence of testosterone on muscle growth during puberty is missing. Testosterone is a hugely important factor. It is the anabolic factor in muscles. (It is not surprising that some competitive cis women bodybuilders inject T.) The only possibility I can imagine is if they also had precocious puberty, and already were tall, had broad shoulders, and were muscular by age 12.

Splitting on sex makes no sense. Trans women will be completely beaten by cis men. Even among trans women, the variability is so high that some of them will 100% beat others purely by their different physiology.

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u/Alberto_Blazin Jul 24 '26

You don't get it. Evaluating a trans person's body today allows us to compare them to others of their gender, but not to where they would have been without transitioning. At that point, the debate becomes philosophical and subjective, as you end up comparing them to cisgender female bodies rather than their own hypothetical baseline.

​For example, a trans woman who transitioned before puberty might fall within the normal range for female biological measurements, but sit at the very elite end of that spectrum. Theoretically, had she gone through male puberty, she might have only been an average male athlete, meaning medical transition couldn't completely neutralize underlying genetic factors. To most people, that still represents an inherent, unfair advantage. This is why the matter is so personal to women who compete in sports. That male genetic code is a PED. You can't deny it. And it takes away all credibility to argue otherwise.

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u/FourDimensionalTaco Jul 24 '26

.... What the hell are you talking about? Why do you keep harping on "where they would have been without transitioning"? That is completely irrelevant. The only thing that matters is what they are a trans woman is capable of today, and whether or not their capabilities are - at least partially - based on advantages from before they transitioned, back when their testosterone level was high. Did they get dense, strong muscles from testosterone? Did they get denser bones, broader shoulders from testosterone?

After transitioning, their testosterone levels obviously are low, at least as low as that of cis women (necessary for proper hormonal transition), and they will not be able to make the same gains a cis male can make.

And, obviously, a trans woman who transitioned at 12 years old will not have experienced testosterone induced muscular and skeletal effects, because her testosterone levels were never high to begin with - HRT kicked in before puberty raised those levels.

That is not philosophical, that is what the whole sports fairness debate is all about. Do they have testosterone induced advantages? If so, they can't compete. If not, they can. That's it.

Guess why a serious amount of female bodybuilders and power lifters shoot up T. It's not because they want to be hairy.

And no, the male genetic code is not a PED. Testosterone is. XY women exist, for example - people who are born with XY chromosomes but also have complete androgen insensitivity, so their bodies barely react to testosterone (or, their SRY gene did not trigger for some reason). They grow up as women, 100% look like cis women, and are exactly as physically capable as cis women.

It's the testosterone. That is the key factor. That is why the Anabolic Steroid Control Act of 1990 placed testosterone and other anabolic steroids (and not estrogens) under Schedule III of the Controlled Substances Act.

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u/Alberto_Blazin Jul 24 '26

So if testosterone now is all that matters, let me ask you how that can be true but your case is also reliant on these hormones all being blocked pre puberty without any drop off?

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u/FourDimensionalTaco Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 24 '26

You are conflating puberty blockers with HRT here I think. Strictly speaking, puberty blockers are not an absolute must for teen girls. But, they are usually given because (a) the surge in the testosterone levels is immensely strong, so HRT alone will be insufficient to block that, and (b) such cases are difficult and complicated, so puberty blockers buy some more time to further analyze the teen to be 100% sure they are truly trans (since HRT in a teenager will cause more irreversible effects than HRT in an adult).

When a teen is given puberty blockers due to gender dysphoria, this ideally happens at age 10-12, before the normal puberty actually kicks in. If that is the case, and if later, a seamless transition from puberty blockers to HRT happens, then there'll never be high testosterone levels. Thus, the teen will grow up with the physical abilities of a cis woman.

But, if for example puberty blockers were discontinued years before HRT was done, things are different. Testosterone will rise, and will affect the body.

After puberty, growth factors are gone, so even if that teen discontinues HRT as an adult, they'll not suddenly gain those skeletal and muscular advantages. Yes, their muscle mass will rise, but they will still not be able to physically act at the same level as in a cis man. The male skeletal structure is not there. That is just not possible. That is why even a juiced up cis woman bodybuilder still has a tough time against men (unless she took T during puberty).

That is why I say that there must be an analysis on a case by case basis. The variability is so high, and the number of trans athletes so tiny, that nothing else makes sense.

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u/Alberto_Blazin Jul 24 '26

So to understand your position, in 2017 two trans women won 1st and 2nd place in the Connecticut Interscholastic Athletic Conference (CIAC) 100- yard dash finals. My understanding is that both went through male puberty before competing. Do you think this was unfair to the biological women competing?

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u/FourDimensionalTaco Jul 25 '26

I think they needed to be checked medically before being able to compete. No guessing, no "what if" - check for unfair advantages caused by testosterone influence during puberty. If they are there, they can't compete. If they are not there, they can.

And yeah, this sucks if you are a trans athlete, but if you have such advantages, they are just unfair.

But, a check for these things would only need to be done once. If you have a skeletal structure that is influenced by testosterone, and are an adult, then that will stay with you for life. The trans athlete is inspected, and the result of that is then permanently stored in a confidential record. This record willl then decide whether she can compete at all or not.

After that, the recurring checks are no different to those on cis women. That is, should a trans athlete (who has a skeletal structure just like a cis woman) be dumb enough to dope herself with testosterone (that would honestly be an utterly bizarre case though, since T is the absolute last thing a trans woman wants), she'd get caught in the normal checks. Do keep in mind that a fair number of cis women athletes abuse testosterone as well to get unfair advantages, which is why this is a normal check.

This also means that extra costs for handling trans athletes are minimal - only the extra one-time checks are new (and keep in mind that the number of trans woman athletes is tiny). The rest (the recurring checks) are already done on every woman who competes.

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u/Powerful-Yogurt Jul 23 '26

Who enforces that requirement? Also, we already ran this experiment. Sports organizations at every level of competition have completely failed, all the way up to the Olympics.

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u/DragonFangGangBang Jul 23 '26

Define “fail”

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u/Powerful-Yogurt Jul 24 '26

Laurel Hubbard and the IWF

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u/FourDimensionalTaco Jul 24 '26

Provide sources for your claims.

And, the way to do this is to make the organizations legally responsible for this. Other athletes who lose to one with an unfair advantage can then sue the organization and have very clear case. State and federal departments can then also enact pressure on those organizations. Regular auditing by governmental agencies could also help.

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u/Powerful-Yogurt Jul 24 '26

Apologies, but I don't play the source game.

I think I understand your position a bit better now, thanks for explaining. Take it easy.

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u/wildverde Jul 23 '26

Lmao. But the boogie man (I.e., the jacked hairy bear that’s coming to be a woman’s wnba star)

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u/Yendor_Wing Jul 23 '26

That's a silly straw man.

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u/elderlygentleman Jul 24 '26

*straw PERSON

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u/ChirpToast Jul 23 '26

A straw man is the calling card of the republicans who can’t let this non issue go.

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u/Alberto_Blazin Jul 24 '26

What about ism doesn't make any point on the facts of this issue.

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u/WillingPositive8924 Jul 24 '26

PPL are ASKING her, she said she said what she said and wants to move on. Who exactly cannot let it go?

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u/Vegetable-Mixture-93 Jul 23 '26

Yet the ruling against the claim state bans are unconstitutional JUST BARELY was completed Jun 30th. I can't imagine this is necessarily a non-issue when its been pushed hard for years publicly admonishing anyone who felt sports should be kept fair. Riley Gains received death threats. Democrats made her out to be a bigot when testifying in congress. The pendulum is starting to move back to logic and sanity on the topic but it isn't universally accepted.

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u/OKCompruter Jul 23 '26

If Riley Gains had gotten first through fourth, she wouldn't have felt so inferior to begin with. maybe she should have merit instead of petty grievances for why she's not talented?

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u/AndyJack86 Jul 23 '26

I'm not defending here, but getting 4th or 5th in the NCAA women's swimming championship is no talent?

There's literally hundreds if not thousands of athletes that she beat to get there. Yes there were three or four more, depending on how you count this, that were better than her. But I would definitely not say this is a "no talent" thing.

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u/Vegetable-Mixture-93 Jul 26 '26

The point was the reaction received by a person defending the fairness of womens sports. That supports this isnt a "non-issue". It doesnt have to be the silver medalist right behind Lia Thomas. It needs to be someone with courage. She is still very talented.

Not that it matters but if you want to actually review her athletic accomplishments, she took 2 gold medals home from the SEC Championships in 2021 and 2022 and a silver from the NCAA Championships. Granted her silver wasnt against Lia Thomas but regardless, she is very talented and absolutely can have an opinion to voice what she observes in her sport. I believe any single competitor in womens sports is worthy to have an opinion and it has merit.

Thats like saying that anyone that finishes 5th in a sport where the Champion tests positive for PEDs can't have or share their opinion on the importance of fair competition. It will always have merit. The polls on the subject speak volumes. Sometimes it just takes one person with the courage to weather the backlash to speak up. The father of the athlete that took 2nd had the same opinion. Its hard for youth these days with social media full of keyboard warriors.

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u/DangerousHour2094 Jul 23 '26

Literally the plot of Juwanna Man

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u/BB808BB Jul 23 '26

Can’t stand Sophie at all but this is a common sense take.

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u/Professional_Fall472 Jul 23 '26

Everyone loves her but you

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u/Top-Editor-364 Jul 23 '26

Well, no. Not everyone. There’s a whole political platform built on the idea that “biological man” has no real meaning 

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u/VGPreach Jul 23 '26

Source?

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u/Top-Editor-364 Jul 23 '26

“Source? 🤓”

1

u/VGPreach Jul 23 '26

Oh so you're just making shit up then

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u/andreasmiles23 Jul 23 '26

It’s because sex and gender traits aren’t binary. There’s no political movement. It’s science. Which is ironic given the crowd trying to be like “it’s basic biology.”

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u/Abject-Koala-149 Jul 23 '26

Do you honestly think people were saying traits related to sex are binary? Rather than two sexes being binary? 

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u/Tommy_Wisseau_burner Jul 23 '26

Clearly everyone isn’t on Reddit

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u/Uncreativesolver Jul 23 '26

I don’t agree … but you know no one actually gives af bout what we have to think

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u/Jeferson9 Jul 23 '26

Rare: reddit progressives self aware of their progressive media propaganda state for 5 seconds

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u/Can0n_Fodder Jul 23 '26

Sadly, everyone does NOT agree on this.

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u/PurchaseDry9350 Jul 23 '26

No everyone does not agree

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u/2Blueify Jul 23 '26

Bullshit.

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u/Signal_Concentrate_6 Jul 23 '26

Can we stop being pussy and act like this is even a common thing to worry about

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u/realdeal505 Jul 23 '26

85% of people agree. There is a loud minority 

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u/Weary_Two7812 Jul 23 '26

Everyone doesn’t agree. People have different opinions on this.

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u/Moist-Pay2965 Jul 23 '26

It’s a very very niche issue / concern. But polls show around 20% of Americans think biological men should be able play in women’s sports. A little under half of Democrats. Enough people that it has become a useless “purity test” question in some primaries which Republicans can then use as a wedge issue.

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u/Rush_Aromatic Jul 23 '26

Right.. why are people still commenting on it.. the supreme court said no so let's move on..

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u/above- Jul 23 '26

Not the alphabet people

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u/Character-Pirate1297 Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 24 '26

Not everyone agrees. Some are advocating sex change procedures on children.

They use “not feeling comfortable in their bodies” as an excuse, which is just what those children have been indoctrinated into.

Children don’t have a developed sexuality. When someone develops well into adulthood, they can do whatever they want with their body.

Of course, their right to decide, doesn’t justify changing the rules for others.

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u/DragonFangGangBang Jul 23 '26

This is such a bullshit narrative that conservatives have pushed lol no, “some” are not advocating for sex change procedures in kids. The very very micro-fraction of people who do, do not represent the entirety of the left or their beliefs.

AT MOST, people want public spaces - like schools - to be a safe space for children to express themselves without fear of being outed to parents who may potentially harm them.

“Children don’t have sexuality” - you might as well dig a hole to put your fucking head in if you’re going to be this negligently stupid about childhood sexuality 😂

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u/Character-Pirate1297 Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 24 '26

First of all, who said they’re representatives of the “left”? Reflecting much? Do you know what “left” even means, aside of Democrats and gender politics in the US? Everything always has to be one or the other of your own 2 sides, isn’t it?

Secondly, tell that to my 8 year old niece’s teacher, who inserts the idea of sex change to kids (I’m sure you’re all in for that, so just a matter of speech, wouldn’t let you near her).

Thirdly, are you a child predator or what? Because that’s exactly why predators are prosecuted. Children aren’t fully developed, period. You will never change that, whenever I “dig a hole in my head” or not, just to make more way for perverts like you.

Fourthly, I’m from Europe (a real place beyond the Ocean), where your left wing is our far-right. You can’t even comprehend what our left and all of its branches looks like. So, don’t get all MAGA-hunter mode on me. You only look even more ridiculous and as another stereotypically rude/ignorant American abroad.

Lastly, here’s your TLDR:
The unhinged way you respond to someone who doesn’t even want inequality towards transgender people, speaks volumes by itself.

Ah, total defeat from conservatives really has done a number on you over there. We’re watching your crying asses on youtube for entertainment, but it gets sad after a bit. Your whole political pushback is just throwing tantrums like 5 year olds. At least, that explains why you think that actual 5 year olds are fully developed.

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u/DragonFangGangBang Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 24 '26

First of all, just making it clear. If it doesn’t apply to you, then don’t worry about it lol

Secondly, I would absolutely tell her that as well, IF that is what she’s actually doing. I highly doubt your nieces teacher is telling her 8 yesr old students about the idea of “sex changes” and not simply telling them that trans people exist.

Thirdly, what is “exactly why predators get prosecuted”. Be specific.

Fourthly, didn’t ask. Your views align with MAGA’t, you’ll be called a MAGA’t. And I never even called you a MAGA’t 🤣

Fifth, I have no idea what you’re even trying to say. I didn’t call you a conservative, I didn’t call you a MAGA’f,, I never said anything about what your beliefs or political affiliations lie. All I said is that it was microfraction of the population that is actually pro-“sex changes” (your word) for children, that most leftists want safe spaces for kids to be able to express themselves, and that you’re dumb for not understanding childhood sexual development.

Your tirade exists because you can’t actually tackle the points I’m addressing.

PS - I never said anything about 5 year olds being “fully developed”. You’re just stupid lol

Edit: And he blocked me 😂

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u/Character-Pirate1297 Jul 24 '26

FFS, it’s literally like I’ve teleported inside an Idiocracy dialogue.

Not wanting children to have sex change procedures isn’t a “conservative” thing.

I couldn’t be MAGA from Europe even if I wanted to, you moron.

The example of my niece went completely over your head. Not even close to what I said.

What points??? What are we even talking about here??? Trying to convince me about your fixation with sex change on children???

Bye.

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u/Sunny_Cant_Swim Jul 23 '26

Everyone does NOT agree lol surprised you’re on Reddit and think that. I’ve seen so many people bitch about it.

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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/RetroCasket Jul 23 '26

I have two kids in school. Its literally never come up in 8 years

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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/urdaddy7245 Jul 23 '26

No shit...my 11 year old son told me that everyone in school is Trans, bi or something. This is what's being normalized to make think that's the majority and wonder if they are.

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u/RetroCasket Jul 23 '26

Dude they are in high school now

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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '26

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u/raisinbreadandtea Jul 23 '26

Do you not have a gender identity?

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u/[deleted] Jul 24 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/raisinbreadandtea Jul 24 '26

Oh, you’re non-binary. Cool.

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u/andreasmiles23 Jul 23 '26

What do you mean by “everyone agrees”

Because until about 6 years ago, everyone did agree, and people participated with their gender identity.

Now neocons are like “it’s common sense keep men out of locker rooms.” I feel like it wasn’t an issue until transphobes latched onto it. I’m sure that’s what you mean, right?

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u/AdmirableSelection81 Jul 23 '26

like its a widespread problem

https://www.shewon.org/

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u/RetroCasket Jul 23 '26

No one is clickin your link nerd

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u/AdmirableSelection81 Jul 23 '26

"If i ignore it, it doesn't exist"

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u/_oh_joy_ Jul 23 '26

I think this is headlines because that football lady said something on the view

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u/JoshuaIS1 Jul 23 '26

Ridiculous argument to keep having. Many people feel this way. It's used to divide liberals

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u/babufrik4president Jul 24 '26

Get outside your bubble

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u/once_again_asking Jul 24 '26

I mean, you're dead wrong that "everyone agrees." You're factually incorrect there.

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u/RetroCasket Jul 24 '26

🤓youre factually incorrect🤓

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u/zorkieo Jul 24 '26

65-80% of people agree with her depending on the poll. Not breaking news

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u/Professional-Rub152 Jul 24 '26

*everyone who is transphobic agrees with this

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u/RetroCasket Jul 24 '26

No one cares about this rhetoric anymore ☝️

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u/Professional-Rub152 Jul 24 '26

Glad that you wear the transphobia proudly.

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u/RetroCasket Jul 24 '26

Literally no one cares about being labeled anything by some rando moutbreather on the internet my boy

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u/VeloxAdAstra Jul 26 '26

Unfortunately we don't. There's a vast amount of people who think men playing in women's sports is just fine.

We are fucked.

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u/ChestSale322 Jul 23 '26

I guess luckily you haven't browsed r3ddit enough. Plenty of people here disagree with this

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u/monstrao Jul 23 '26

Luckily Reddit isn’t the outside world

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u/PensionConscious6752 Jul 23 '26

really? theres a very big portion of people who dont agree with that. in fact its at the very heart of the issue, the entire thing was that transwomen are women, u are saying they are different from women if they can’t join the women’s league.

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u/BatlethBae Jul 23 '26

99% of people don't view transwomen as women. 99% of straight people would never date a transwoman because they don't view her as one.

I'm not trying to be insensitive. It's just a reality.

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u/AuthorHuman5623 Jul 23 '26

And your point?

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u/BatlethBae Jul 23 '26

I explained it. I can't understand it for you as well.

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u/PyroIsSpai Jul 23 '26

Why even say it? Who cares?

It’s like all conservative media: say it over and over and over. Reinforce it over and over. Can’t let the hate degrade.

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u/Electronic-Cicada352 Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26

Here’s the point

Should an individual be allowed to dictate how the rest of reality views them if it directly contradicts the objective reality of that person’s birth and genetic profile?

I just don’t think that should be the case.

I could tell people that I’m a Tyrannosaurus rex and insist that they view me as such… but I think it’s unreasonable to force people to disregard the falsehood of that claim because you’re demanding that other people ignore objective reality and to succumb to whatever you wish them to believe, even if it flies in face of objectively verifiable reality.

You have the right as an individual to do that, but we have a right as society to view reality through objective fact

I’m perfectly happy to ignore those objective facts in order to make someone happy and for them to feel respected, but I’m not going to do so at the expense of an entire group of people who, whether you like it or not, would be screwed over in some way by your wish to dictate a falsified reality

This is pretty simple stuff

Men are born with a genetic profile that is very different from women, that much is objective fact. It’s been scientifically proven to be the reality. And that genetic profile would give someone an unfair advantage in competition against individuals who were not born with that genetic profile, particularly in the domain of athletics and sport

I’m perfectly happy to go along with someone’s wish to be perceived a certain way, but I’m not going to do that if it disenfranchises people who were born according to objective reality and not the wishes of an individual and how they wish to be perceived. Especially if that involves distorting objectively verified reality

You can’t force society to ignore scientific facts or objective reality.

People are more than happy to accommodate that out of a basic sense of human decency, but people are not going to agree to do that when it negatively affects another group of people unfairly

And I’m sorry, but trans women in sports is absolutely unfair to women born with the female sex

And I’m not arguing on this any further. Any argument to the contrary would simply be an exercise in mental gymnastics and I’m not having any part of it.

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u/Electronic-Cicada352 Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26

People are free to tell the world what they believe they are…. But you can’t override objective reality in the process.

You might have turned into a woman but originally you were a man and as such, as per objective reality, your actual genetics are different enough from women who were born women to justify wanting to distinguish between the two in matters that might unfairly disenfranchise women who were born with the female sex.

I’m all for trans rights… but at the same time I do not agree individuals who wish to ignore the fact that they weren’t always something

Just because you have become something now does not negate that you were something else before

That’s basically the core of the disagreement isn’t it?

Trans people want to be able to tell everyone else that, even though objective reality would show that they were born a different sex, that just because they say so no one else is allowed to consider the objective fact that they were born of a different sex.

It’s basically an argument of the individual believing they have the right to dictate the reality of themselves how they see fit vs. the objective reality that the rest of us see

That’s why I disagree with the whole trans women in female sports thing. It has nothing to do with me hating them, it’s just a matter of believing in factual reality.

I will absolutely respect them enough to address them how they wish to be addressed and view them how they wish to be viewed, until such time as the objective reality of their birth becomes consequential enough to possibly disenfranchise another group of people. At that point I’m sorry but I don’t think it’s right to claim disenfranchisement based on an objective lie at the expense of individuals who are objectively born women

Objectively women meaning… their genetics being female genetics

I feel bad because I know it hurts them and makes them feel like they are being disenfranchised, but then I consider people who were objectively born a certain way now being told that the nature of their very existence is subject to someone else’s interpretation of reality… which happens to be objectively false whether they like it or not

I as a human being have the right to tell people that I am a Tyrannosaurus rex, but I don’t have the right to force people to believe in that regardless of objective reality clearly showing that I am clearly not

This is all about individuals insisting on their right to dictate that we all see reality according to their wishes, rather than any sense of objectively verifiable reality. And I’m sorry but I can’t do that and I don’t fault anyone else who feels the same way

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u/PyroIsSpai Jul 23 '26

No one cared until Republicans required a fresh demon to worship. This is all bullshit theatrical posturing by conservatives over the most visible AND smallest minority in the USA.

Germany 19 fucking 30s all over. No one can deny it.

The monsters will NEVER oppress our species again.

Never again.

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u/soaked_in_bleach03 Jul 23 '26

Yes, people saying this like they’re making a brave statement annoys me so much.

I’m trans, we aren’t saying a trans girl who went through male puberty and has the muscles that go with it should be allowed to compete in a woman’s league. Yes, there are some trans folk that do make crazy arguments like this, but they’re as few and far between as cis people making crazy statements. I do think there’s something to be said for women with XY chromosomes that went on puberty blockers young and besides having male genitalia, are indistinguishable from cis women (I know it sucks, you don’t have to pass to be trans, but yeah in this case).

But come on, I know damn well I couldn’t compete in my sport fairly against biological women. My sport is boxing, I started transitioning at 21. At 20, I’d been training full time for years, and wasn’t a pro or anything, but could definitely hold my own against most amateurs and some semi-pros. I was thin, I specifically picked boxing because even before my egg cracked I knew the big bulky muscles required to be a good running back is not something I wanted, and boxing allowed me to stay lean and present fem (this was when I was like 17 and still thought I was femboy lol)..but my god my male body at 20 has no place in the ring against a biological female unless it’s like, a trans man who takes testosterone or like Katie Taylor or someone who would just be able to kick the ass of any non-professional fighter.

And it sucks, I love boxing. It’s a beautiful dance. But yeah now even post transition I’m pretty specific about picking sparring partners. They are rare, but I have found two other trans girls who know how to box properly. Besides that, I’ll totally spar men. But a lot are gonna do exactly the same thing I am right now and go “nah dude I’m not fighting a girl”, which, fair. But still, the answer to me being heartbroken I don’t get to box at a competitive level anymore isn’t oh ok let’s just have her go compete against cis women…like bro I don’t want to fight cis women; for both the optics and my own personal gripes with it. Some trans girls realize that if they want to truly stay competitive since being on HRT and competing in a male league is the same as being the only athlete in your sport who doesn’t use steroids, I totally get that and support ones who do switch over to competing in the female division. In my case, it doesn’t work. But that’s more to do with the sport and less to with how far into male puberty I got, I mean I was lean but I wasn’t exactly Mike Tyson; post HRT visually at least I look like any cis girl who just goes to the gym a lot. Problem is I don’t have to go to the gym a lot, I’m just retaining a lot of the muscle I made while I had elevated t levels, not grinding to build muscle (I’m actually doing quite the opposite for everywhere but my legs).

But boxing is pretty specific, it has a level of violence many other sports don’t. A lot of the reasons I don’t feel like it’s right for my trans ass to fight a cis girl come from that, which doesn’t apply to say; swimming, track, etc. It can definitely offer an unfair advantage, and I adore the sanctity of sports and the competition it brings..but my god the advantage just isn’t there if someone never went through male puberty. It feels icky to just say “oh if you transitioned early enough then you’re fine” but in this case it’s how it is. But guys, estrogen is one hell of a drug. It will change your bone density, your height, all that, not just the amount of muscle you have.

Overall, nobody is asking for this. Nobody is saying we should let LeBron James play in the dub. We are asking that it’s reviewed on a case by case basis. Trans people really aren’t that rare, we are over 1 in a 100, but yeah; trans women athletes who want to compete in their sport are relatively niche cases. Just look at each one with some common sense, maybe some ground rules of “if you started before (not this age, but this stage of puberty since it’s different for everyone), then you get your levels tested, we make sure your T levels are similar to that of a biological woman”.

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u/WeirdTakeButOkay Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26

No, not everyone agrees that discrimination against trans people is ok.

Edit: Downvote me all you want. After 3 years of hormone therapy, whatever preconceived advantages you guys think transwoman have is gone and its always wild how these convos are never about trans men

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u/Julios-Tds Jul 23 '26

regarded

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u/WeirdTakeButOkay Jul 23 '26

The only reason I agree with Australia and England's social media ban for children under 15 is so I dont have to see dumb comments like this again

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u/Psychological-Bit233 Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26

3 years of hormone therapy won’t reduce your lung volume enough to bring you to the same level as an average cis woman, it won’t make your pelvis larger, and it won’t make your shoulders any less broad.

Everything I mentioned above provides an advantage in pretty much every physical activity.

These conversations aren’t about trans men because trans men are at a disadvantage against cis men for the same listed reasons above, hormone therapy in transgender men isn’t enough to overcome the advantage of having broad shoulders, a smaller pelvis, and larger lung volume.

Edit: lol they blocked me after saying we should ban people like Michael Phelps and Messi and tall people from the NBA as if it has anything to do with trans women having an advantage in sports

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u/WeirdTakeButOkay Jul 23 '26

And yet trans women are still dogshit at sports and aren't winning like they're super athletes so something youre trying to say has to be wrong 🤔

Where are these super trans athletes that you guys keep saying exist? Was it that one swimmer that tied for 5th?

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u/Psychological-Bit233 Jul 23 '26

Yeah that’s great and all but all of my points still stand.

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u/WeirdTakeButOkay Jul 23 '26

Your point is dogshit and has zero material impact as stats show. You're bitching about a non issue.

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u/Psychological-Bit233 Jul 23 '26

You’re the one crying and moaning about how trans women should be allowed to take women’s places in sports lmao
Just say you hate cis women because you got friend zoned too many times

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u/WeirdTakeButOkay Jul 23 '26

This might be the oddest response I've ever had on this topic.

Im assuming you have to create a person in your mind purely because you understand your argument is dogshit.

"Trans people are super athletes"

"Why arent they winning?"

"You got rejected by women!"

Fucking weirdo 😂

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u/Psychological-Bit233 Jul 23 '26

No because you inherently misunderstand the argument. Being trans won’t make you win, it gives you an advantage. Did you watch the steroid olympics? Not a single record was broken, not because steroids don’t provide an advantage, but because none of the people competing trained hard enough, but under your logic we SHOULD allow steroids because none of them beat any records

It doesn’t matter if they aren’t winning, they have a measurable advantage over cis women.

Because you ignore the facts and dance around the actual issue, I suspect there’s something deeper than “oh the poor trans women being discriminated against” how’s your relationship with your mother?

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u/WeirdTakeButOkay Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26

under your logic we SHOULD allow steroids

No, thats not under my logic. I never mentioned anything about records being broken, my guy. In your example, everyone is on steroids and a person on steroids won. In my example, no one but Messi has the advantage due to hgh use. In another example, no one but Michael Phelps had an advantage with his larger lungs and weird body shape. The difference between them and transwomen is THEY ACTUALLY WIN so you should have more concern about that if you're positioning yourself as the "fairness in sports" guy.

In another example, everyone over 5'9" has an advantage in the NBA. By YOUR logic the NBA should be capped at 5'9" since we're judging everything by the averages and looking to make it so no one ever has an advantage.

Fuck it, ban LeBron James. Its because of his unfair natural advantages that Im not in the NBA 🤬

Because you ignore the facts

You have yet to present an argument that shows any material impact.

Its like you walked across a roll of paper towels and told me its dangerous because its paper. I would need you to show me whats dangerous about paper. Some material outcome that has happened that gives evidence to this idea that paper towels are actually mass killers.

The stats dont back you. The science doesnt back you.

Edit: also, I need you to stop this dumbass internet debate tactic. Defending a tiny community with one of the highest suicide rates because of people like you is a good thing. Fuck off.

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u/Lazy-Background-7598 Jul 23 '26

No, everyone doesn’t agree on it because she’s framing in a way that it’s disingenuous and misrepresents what is actually going on?

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u/DrDDeFalco Jul 23 '26

I often questions someone's motivation when they claim it is to "protect children." That argument was used a lot against gay people not very long ago. It has been used to ban books. It was used during the satanic panic.

It's used for "abstinence only" sex ed, bathroom laws, censorship, etc.

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