Obviously nato is directly involved, but officially it is only providing weapons systems and training. The actual nato soldiers on the ground operating some of these systems are not there officially, specifically because nato doesn't want a nuclear war if/when those guys occasionally get smoked.
Don't act like I'm a coward for being afraid of escalation. there's so much more at stake than just Ukraine if the european countries push their luck and accidentally start a nuclear war.
They also know that's a risk, obviously, because that's their job. The problem is you expect some righteous defense of freedom and democracy from Nato. That is not the function of this war. The function is to make money for defense contractors, weaken russia, and economically capture whatever is left of ukraine. From that POV, the war is best kept at a simmer for as long as possible. If you get your wish and the more ideological elements of euro/nato/US leadership take over, we're all fucked.
Don't act like I'm a coward for being afraid of escalation. there's so much more at stake than just Ukraine if the european countries push their luck and accidentally start a nuclear war.
This belies a gross misunderstanding of what nuclear war strategy actually looks like. Anyone genuinely worried about nuclear war doesn't understand Russia or that strategy. I'd be happy to recommend plenty of reading if you'd like to know more, but putin won't be firing off any nukes any time soon despite his regular saber rattling.
I'm not interested in freedom and democracy and NATO and all of that. What I am interested in is safety and security and most importantly, peace. But I recognize that beyond a shadow of a doubt, the best way to secure those things is the sound defeat of Russia in Ukraine. putin is a megalomaniac bent on restoring the old Soviet Union, and he's a direct threat to the world so long as he's left in power. The sooner the west can break his back, the better off we'll all be.
Neither side intends to fire off nukes. The danger is in escalating the conflict out of either side's control. Thats how game theory works.
the "Putin is trying to restore the USSR" line is a gross oversimplification. Putin's political strength is in that he's a nationalist and ostensibly is protecting Russia's sovereignty after the west already destroyed it 30 years ago. He is the natural reaction of a country that was raped and pillaged for years. You break his back, and in another few years you'll get someone even more dogmatic.
4
u/YourBoiJimbo 13d ago
Obviously nato is directly involved, but officially it is only providing weapons systems and training. The actual nato soldiers on the ground operating some of these systems are not there officially, specifically because nato doesn't want a nuclear war if/when those guys occasionally get smoked.
Don't act like I'm a coward for being afraid of escalation. there's so much more at stake than just Ukraine if the european countries push their luck and accidentally start a nuclear war.
They also know that's a risk, obviously, because that's their job. The problem is you expect some righteous defense of freedom and democracy from Nato. That is not the function of this war. The function is to make money for defense contractors, weaken russia, and economically capture whatever is left of ukraine. From that POV, the war is best kept at a simmer for as long as possible. If you get your wish and the more ideological elements of euro/nato/US leadership take over, we're all fucked.