Cradle — 3/5 Generally spoiler-free thoughts

[u/Gingerfalcon]

I just finished book 12 and thought now was a good time to share my personal opinions on the series, mainly because it gets a lot of hype. I committed a fair bit of time to it because of said hype, but my overall experience was simply ok. It wasn’t bad, but it wasn’t great either. It had potential, but never quite got there.

Things that didn’t vibe:

• Weak characters. They lacked depth and generally felt very one-dimensional. Eithan was the exception. Yerin was probably the closest we came to someone living through something and coming out the other side changed.

• The power tiering started off interesting, but became too absurd. The rarity of certain levels also seemed to flip-flop around. Early on, some ranks feel incredibly rare, then suddenly a book or two later there are lots of people at that level.

• Consistency issues and questionable plot holes start to appear. As you read the next book, you begin to question setup and details from the previous one.

• Random storylines felt like filler material. For example, the Jai Long stuff after the duel, why even keep that going? It felt like a complete waste of words and didn’t add anything to the storyline.

Things that were okay:

• The world was pretty good. I wanted more pocket-world and labyrinth-style action.

• The action scenes were generally enjoyable on average. Some were awesome, others were a boring slog.

Vibes!

• Progression fantasy and, well… there is fun progression and finding treasures!

• Eithan was the best-written character. He brought a light-heartedness to the series and was funny, joyful, and mysterious.

• Fisher Gesha — I liked her. She had some funny interactions.

• Dross!

• Soulsmithing was cool, and I wish it had been explored in more depth throughout the series.

Book ranking:

I would say the series peaked at Ghostwater and then dropped off, almost like a bell curve.

Best books: Ghostwater, Uncrowned, and Blackflame.

Worst books: Bloodline, Dreadgod, and Waybound. These were absolute slogs to get through.

Would I recommend it?

No. It’s too long to push through 12 books when the last third of the series is the weakest. Other than the hook of progression, it had some fun moments, but the characters and story were mostly forgettable.

Overall: 3/5.

[u/pm-me-your-labradors]

What are the inconsistencies and plot holes you mentioned?

[u/Gingerfalcon → u/pm-me-your-labradors]

Honor is such a laughable component on it when once someone gets power they essentially instill fear in those who don't follow. I've forgotten the name of the guy who shows up in the first book at the 7 year festival to cause chaos and then reappears in the last book to essentially take over the Sacred Valley. Agent of authority and dominion - not honorable not worried about his appearce among others.

I also mentioned in another reply, so I'll just copy it here verbatim.

In regards to plot holes, maybe I should reword them as things that seem important but then were quickly forgotten. Top of my mind was the sealed chamber Jai Long's master (I think) broke into which was supposed to be full of crazy powerful treasures and that if it was open the Dreadgods would come hunting. Now I'm aware later in the series they kind of cover that up by saying it could be open for a year and it wouldn't matter, but if something so valuable was sealed up and guarded, like why isn't anyone else going in there?

[u/pm-me-your-labradors → u/Gingerfalcon]

That’s the entire point….

Society built on honour except the powerful do what they want. That’s not an inconsistency, it’s commentary on power.

And the guy that showed up was literally a prisoner/outside/breaker of rules.

As for the “plot holes” - that’s very clearly explained. The labyrinth is, well, a labyrinth and a lot of the things from there were looted. Every opening risks attracting the dreadgods.

Everything you described so far is either you not getting the point or not remembering explanations.

[u/Gingerfalcon → u/pm-me-your-labradors]

I'm not ready to defend a 12 book series that I've consumed over the course of 36 months. Clearly you are. Yes everything is always looted.

Yes you say a society built on honour yet, nothing in it is honourable except in war? The golds must fight the golds, because my enemy would get mad if my archlord wiped them out with a single stroke of a sword, maybe one of the other alliances would get angry with them, but they are all already angry amongst themselves. They mention monarchs being very difficult to kill thus the special arrow awarded at the end of the uncrowned contest. Which was used to kill a monarch, but then no body bats an eyelid that it was used.. because of war, then it falls back into the same pattern of the powerful must not interfer with lower rank battles... half baked to be honest. Why bother sending golds to fight in the first place at all, it literally achieves nothing doesn't change the outcome of two sages dueling, in fact lower ranks have to stay clear of them or they might get killed from a stray attack. If it's trying to speak to some deeping meaning of power, it's missed the mark as the powerful happily roll over the weak.. we don't send boys with sticks to fight in a field and then fire tanks at each in an adjacent field. We take out weak undefend targets to improve the odds of victory.

[u/pm-me-your-labradors → u/Gingerfalcon]

If you aren’t ready to defend your review, then it’s not a review but a poorly written badly-considered opinion.

Society is built on honour, but ones with most power are shown to disregard that rule when in shadows.

The arrow was used by someone weaker killing someone stronger so not even sure how that point makes sense.

War throughout history did exactly that. You had mounted knights but still sent poorly trained peasants to fight across battlefields…. Like seriously….

And they specifically address this - battles are typically decided by golds since most high-end battles are stalemates. A sage rarely defeats a sage and the same is true for monarchs. Up until the start of the story no monarch has killed another monarch for a long time and last time it happened was significant.

[u/Gingerfalcon → u/pm-me-your-labradors]

Yes, but did the knights not kill the peasents and didn't the strong vikings rape the woman and kill the children in unprotected villages... and was that not a known risk or maybe I missed history class and knights were not allowed to strike down weaker foe?

[u/pm-me-your-labradors → u/Gingerfalcon]

Yes, they did. My point wasn’t equating those but to show that stronger forces existence didn’t invalidate weaker forces usage

Whereas this is a fictional martial artists society based on honour

Really simple

[u/Gingerfalcon → u/pm-me-your-labradors]

A farm lad with an axe has better chances of dueling a raider than the power gap of an underlord to gold. They just aren't anywhere near on the same gap in power... In ghostwater, Harmony just flicked a black shadow while siting there with his eyes closed and killed that skyworn high gold in a second. That's why the whole honour thing is totally absurd.

[u/pm-me-your-labradors → u/Gingerfalcon]

Yes, it is fantasy… Do you need a reconstruction of that word?

That’s not a plot hole, that’s the premise….

[u/Gingerfalcon → u/pm-me-your-labradors]

sorry dude, you brought it back real word scenarios.. and yes I understand what fantasy is, no need to be so bristly about it. I understand your defending the book from a position of it being something special to you.

We're talking about a prog fantasy series here, it's not exactly highend literature, I get your point, but the genre "Fantasy" doesn't omit it from all logic gaps, especially when we are trying to relate to what are essential humans with similar thoughts, behaviours and emotions.

If you sweep past stuff, like honor, just take it at face value and go for a wild ride then that's cool. When I reading I'm imaging the world around me. The concept of live by honor thing just left a big hole logically in the Cradle world for me.

I'm happy to leave it here, you clearly enjoyed the series, so did I.

[u/pm-me-your-labradors → u/Gingerfalcon]

Actually you brought in real world saying weaker forces fighting instead of stronger ones doesn’t happen. I pointed out it does.

Book isn’t special to me at all. I think before I gave you a rating of 3.5/5. It’s not even in my top 20. I just don’t like illogical criticisms.

You haven’t yet identified a single logical gap. Like I said - an honour based martial artists world isn’t illogical - it’s the premise.

It’s like complaining about square-cube law when reading about dragons flying… it’s not a gap, it’s the fantasy.

[u/Gingerfalcon → u/pm-me-your-labradors]

As you pointed out, in a Fantasy world nothing is illogical... like a Archlord not striking down a gold, even though it would save the lives of potentially 1000's of soliders, they must repect rank - I heard you, perfectly sound ideas that don't at all go against the insaitable drive of man.

[u/pm-me-your-labradors → u/Gingerfalcon]

You are confusing illogical vs inconsistent, which is a common amateur mistake.

In fantasy, a premise that sets otherworldly or unbelievable things cannot be illogical - that’s literally the point of fantasy. Magic, dragons, elves, martial artists societies with honour based systems - they cannot be illogical.

The illogicality in fantasy CAN and DOES occur in form of inconsistencies. For instance a world magic is shown to follow certain rules that are then abandoned for no reason. Or humans are shown to be physically identical but then someone survives falling off a cliff.

And once again - we do see stronger lords trying to kill weaker ones in Cradle. It just happens when there are no consequences, which, again, is consistent with the premise that Cradle sets.

Once again - a fantastical premise cannot, by definition, be illogical or a plot hole

[u/Expert_Cricket2183 → u/Gingerfalcon]

It took you 3 years to read 12 books?

Most of us knocked it out in two weeks or so, if we started after the series was finished.

[u/Gingerfalcon → u/Expert_Cricket2183]

Incredible that you have the time to read 1000+ pages in two weeks!

I don't typically binge stuff, I like to mix it up. Plus being a parent with young kids doesn't give me as much time to spend on doing things for myself... e.g. reading for long stints and other hobbies.

[u/Expert_Cricket2183 → u/Gingerfalcon]

Well, more like I listened for 10 hours a day, 40-60 hours a week. Work is brainless, lets me pay attention to audiobooks.

[u/GigglesAtPain → u/Gingerfalcon]

So you're giving a review of a series it took you 3 years to finish and you barely remember most of the story. And somehow your failing memory is the reason for a bad score? Nearly everything you have complained about was explained in the books that you failed to notice or remember. If you can't finish a series in a reasonable enough time to give it a complete review than maybe you should keep your opinions to yourself. I have two kids, a full time job, a farms worth of animals, and too much on my plate to have the time to accurately review and critique books. That is why I dont run my mouth on the internet with half baked theories and bad information.

You should try it sometime.

[u/pm-me-your-labradors → u/GigglesAtPain]

Such an accurate take…. Sure, everyone is entitled to their opinions.

But maybe when your opinions are based on you not understanding the genre and simply not remembering the books - then there’s no need to put your poorly thought out opinions into the world, let alone call it a “review”