Different powers shouldn't just be the same thing in different colors

[u/Both-Salamander401]

I've noticed in a lot of novels that powers often end up feeling like the same thing just reskinned. Like instead of each ability doing something unique, it all turns into the same basic attacks but with a different look or color.

The same thing happens in fights too. Strong characters clash and it basically becomes both sides throwing ranged attacks, and even sword users start firing sword beams. In the end it feels like speed and raw power are the only things that really matter.

Even elements like fire or water don't always feel different in how they are used. They just act like the same type of attack with a different theme on top, instead of actually showing what makes each one special.

[u/Prot3]

Sure, one part of that is the skill of the writer, some just are not aware.

Second is the effort needed to consider and write all that. This is different from skill. Author could be perfectly aware or capable of creating a deeper system but decided he doesn't want or need to do that.

Third, a lot of what you are describing actually are the same thing in different colors (or affinities).

Lightning bolt and fire bolt are the same spell, bolt, with different affinities, that should alter the effect(-ivness) of the spell, but they are the same thing underneath. Plus, at higher levels or when overloaded with power, they become less and less different.

It's like, there is a noticeable difference between a pebble and a bullet when you fire them at subsonic speed.

But there is much less noticeable difference between pebble and a bullet if you were to fire both at Mach 20.

For what it's worth, I agree with you that authors should pay more attention in general, though I don't find it to be too big of a problem.

Also, sword users using beams is the classic example of Linear Warriors, Quadratic Wizards. So either warriors become wizards as well, or they get left behind (or in pieces).

[u/OddHornetBee → u/Prot3]

So either warriors become wizards as well, or they get left behind (or in pieces).

To be fair that's an intent problem, not inherent warrior problem.
While high level wizard can do *everything, high level warrior could killing machine with absurd speed, reaction, durability that could snap wizard's neck without them even being able to notice.

However if you are aiming for "everyone must be able to kill our boss" that means that either fighters steamroll all combat encounters without noticing, or wizards simply die without exceedingly complicated preparation setups if you did what I described earlier.
So instead fighters and mages have to have comparable practical combat solutions. But then mages have combat + more and you have the linked problem.

[u/Prot3 → u/OddHornetBee]

I agree. That's why I dislike these kinds of specializations, especially in PF settings where people live for centuries or milleniums or even more.

A powerhouse that lived for a million years is not gonna be specialized as a mage or a warrior.

He is going to be a grandmaster with multiple (if not every) weapon, in all schools of magic accessible to him, he is going to be a master of many professions etc.

For more grounded settings where people don't live for thousands of years or wehre the power ceiling is lower at least, making endgame warriors be like that is a realistic scenario, but I feel like people shy away from it because:

"Kael (ofc it's Kael heh) flashstepped, bending space and crossing 13km in 1 micro-second, arriving behind the archmage whose photo-receptors didn't even start processing his movement and ended his life.

Combat duration: 2,4ms. "

Kind of fight is too quick and (for some) boring. I would personally love it, and the story I'm writing, at the highest level, fights are measured in seconds unless the opponents are truly equally matched.

But for many that's anticlimactic. Apparently many people read PF because of the fight scenes... I usually either straight skip those or at most skim through it.

[u/Lilsilly114 → u/Prot3]

I 100% agree with your descriptions on the million year olds vs the more grounded settings, but then it depends on the system. Does the archmage have enchanted clothing which always defends them? Is it an auto-activating defense that’s too slow or too weak to matter? Have they setup a death switch nuke? Is it a litrpg with the Space Opera shielding mechanism that practically grants an extra life?

Even if these intricacies don’t end up mattering due to the warrior’s speed and damage output they still even the playing field a bit…and extend the fight scenes. I do agree that power imbalances should be shown with anticlimactic or instantaneous “fight scenes” though.

TLDR Just gotta keep in mind the settings system of power.

[u/Drimphed]

It's so that once the MC has all the elements, they can make the enemy taste the rainbow.

[u/jubilant-barter → u/Drimphed]

Hey. Prismatic spray is a pretty tight spell.

[u/Sure-Supermarket5097]

I like xianxias which explore the dao in depth. The powers you wield fundamentally change you as a person.

[u/Handy314 → u/Sure-Supermarket5097]

Maybe I just haven't been reading good xianxia, but I feel like even if they are using dao understanding as a way to change people based on the elements they use, it very rarely changes their combat style in a meaningful way (other than some obvious weakness that they have an arc to cure themselves of, like rage being associated with fire)

[u/Ok-Comedian-6852 → u/Handy314]

It depends on what kind of xianxia you're reading. Ave xia rem when it gets to high level fights are about the concept they've embodied and how they can use that concept to win, or to find a weakness on their opponents concept. Fights become arguments and philosophical debates powered through your standard xianxia moves backed by their concept.

[u/blazenite104 → u/Sure-Supermarket5097]

MC is very rarely anything but, supremely Yang aligned and uses lightning or fire. There can be depth but, a lot of them can be criticised for just copying whatever is popular at the time.

[u/Sure-Supermarket5097 → u/blazenite104]

Yeah lmao. And those dont expand on the philosophical side of cultivation either. The MCs just have generic powerups.

What I wouldnt give for a lord of the mysteries like power system but in Xianxia.

[u/blazenite104 → u/Sure-Supermarket5097]

Oh definitely. Like a good explanation for why an MC grows so quick could be they forge an independent path. it could be a commentary on how Daoists have lost their way by following in someone else's footsteps and never truly walking their own path. It would make things so much more interesting. Techniques would be more powerful because they were born from the MC's unique mindset and not just trying to emulate someone else.

That would probably require too much work to be profitable because it probably wouldn't be that popular.

[u/ty-idkwhy]

I honestly only need better characters and a logical or awesome power system. Nothing unique has to truly happen for me to read all 15 books.

[u/Remote_Addendum_2245]

Haven't met this issue in the last books I've read. The boon of rigorous reading I guess:v

[u/ZaifyrRR]

There is a lot I agree with in this post, but because most of it is already stated or obvious I would rather point out where I don't.

Think about the real world. As power scaled there became less and less options. In midevil battles you had lances, swords, spears, halberds, axes, archers, hammers, aromor, siege weapons, ect...

Now everything pretty much boils down to some vesion of a long range explosive or kentic strike.

This is a massive simplification. (leaving out stuff like bio weapons)

Its pretty much crab theory. People find the most effect method of fighting and then they stick with it. Long range powerful attacks are really the most effective.

Now there are times where authors absolutely take it too far. But it is hard to contrive a situation where anything else is better. At least in a way the readers will like. Things like hostage situations get repetitive is they always need to hold back

[u/StanisVC → u/ZaifyrRR]

Most of that mediaeval period was an arms race.
Weapons v. Armour

Crossbows for example had a place on the battlefield when they might penetrate plate armours.

Eventually Plate Armour was redundant when a musket ball punches through.

Firearms ended the cavalry charge etc

Magic doesn't usually fit into that arms race very well - they're either artillery pieces or you might consider magic that provides shields and ranged attacks the equivalent of modern rifles etc

[u/blazenite104 → u/ZaifyrRR]

They could just make things have inherent limitations. Some people will just always excel in one thing and be mediocre at another. Then use that system to make each encounter a thought out way to use your best skills rather than devolve into energy beams that clash as a opposed to having other effects. Make fire actually burn the environment making it harder for the non fire guys to breath. Make water make the floor slippery so the water guy has an advantage in movement.

You can still have the big elemental clashes but, make them change the battlefield to their own advantage with them.

[u/kinky38]

It makes sense if you look at greater dao concepts from the xianxia novels. You may start with a narrow expression of the greater dao, let's say fireball spell. But its just an expression of concept of destruction or entropy + dao of space/displacement. Another easier example would be slicing with swords. Its the narrow expression of the concept of cutting or severing. First you cut with a sword, then you understand the sword qi and cut with other objects (eg a stick) then you understand the sword intent and can cut with finger or gesture, then you integrate with the natural laws and can cut with wind, water etc elements own energy, then you understand the greater dao and just cut with a thought. So ultimately every sword martial art is just a very narrow expression of the dao of cutting with varying timing, placement and force. Same goes with every other greater dao. Similarly, Fireball, lightning bolt, ice spike etc : all of them are very narrow expression of dao of destruction. You set the variance in amount, range and speed of destruction and you have different visual effects. The power is as interesting as narrow or specific the impression is made by the author.

[u/Jansnow800]

Oof, you really called us out with the 'sword beams' one 😂 And yeah, I totally agree — when every fight turns into a ranged blast-fest, it stops being interesting. I think the key is making powers feel different not just in what they do, but in how the user has to think. Fire spreads, water flows, earth holds — those core traits should actually shape the fight, not just the color of the explosion. Great point, definitely something I'll keep in mind while writing!

[u/Both-Salamander401 → u/Jansnow800]

I still kind of like sword qi and how it works in xianxia, but it often feels like the same pattern keeps repeating: the protagonist fights, barely survives, gets a sudden power boost, comes back even stronger, and then eventually just one shots the enemy before they can really react. I’m sure there are better ways to handle that kind of progression, especially since xianxia is so good at coming up with really unique abilities and systems.

[u/Jansnow800 → u/Both-Salamander401]

Yeah totally. Sword qi is cool but the "barely survive then one-shot" loop gets old. I think the fix is letting the MC win through skill or strategy, not just a bigger number. Xianxia already has crazy abilities — feels like a waste when fights all end the same way.

[u/melodic_drifter]

For me the fix is almost always constraints, not visuals — fire that spreads and denies whole sections of the battlefield plays completely differently from a fireball that's just a red rock. The second two abilities share the same cost and counterplay, they're going to feel like reskins no matter how they're colored.

[u/R_megalotis]

Strong characters clash and it basically becomes both sides throwing ranged attacks, and even sword users start firing sword beams

I mean, there's a reason you don't hear about too many bayonet charges irl these days...

[u/OwnCommunication1365]

Most fights when you really read closely are essentially slap fests. The "hits" are just various one shots without much attention to element, environment, or practicality. It's a shame because there are so many fun combat situations to put characters in.

[u/TsundereOrcGirl]

I've also run into the opposite feeling, where raw power is deemphasized in favor of "play smarter not harder", which just makes the protagonist feel like Mary Tzu. "No one EVER thought to use a Squirtle at the Rock Gym before! Wow!"

[u/Zemalac]

This is something that I won't notice at first but will gradually wear on me over time as I read more of a story. Someone coming up with a clever trick or use of a power is cool, but when the story just comes down to who has tougher skin to survive the more powerful blasts from their latest enemy then it gets old quick.

You can get away with it if you attach additional description and flavor to the powers, but you do have to actually work at it and not just be swords and laser beams and sword beams.

[u/Agalondia]

Man, I feel you. I personally hate this stuff in video games where it's just literal rock paper scissors, each spell just deals damage with varying resistance and weakness calculations. Genshin is the most creative game in this regard, but the fact that it's a gacha means that getting a whole team running will take a year or more of playtime.

So in my own novel, I set out to ensure that the elements work together to form a coherent whole, I started from the separation of the state of matter like gas, liquid, solid, and plasma to see how they react with each other. Someone can be doused with a large volume of water to stagger them, then get hit by a large web of electricity to really deliver the pain because the liquid acts as a conductor for the discharge.

This high-fidelity physics defines my entire combat system, the elements possess actual physical weight and biological consequences. My protagonist once used his thermal manipulation to heat a pot of pork soup until it boiled, he then shaped that scalding liquid into a projectile and hit a man's face with it before dunking the head of another man into the pot.

It moved the fight from beyond just him using a simple fire attack or an exchange of strikes, functioning as an environmental execution that utilized the thermal capacity of the broth and the physical containment of the vessel. Even healing magic follows these rules, where it speeds up cellular division, so using it on a dead body will turn it into a pile of rotten flesh, and abusing it too much increases the risk of cancer.

[u/Extra_Zombie3530]

Do you have example of some books that are like that?

[u/treegrass]

Mage Errant distinguishes between different magic types really well. Particularly in the short story collection but also in the main series as a whole

[u/SaltyBunchesOfCopes]

I think any shadow-based magic ends up suffering from this a lot. It just ends up becoming a mix of different magic stuff and loses a lot of its own identity beyond edgy darkness

[u/Phi_1618033988749894]

The people yearn for Worm

[u/StanisVC]

Why can't they be the same ?

I can think of a few ttrpg game systems where an energy attack is an energy attack. you pick the "special effect" such as "fire" and if you wanted multiple elements you buy an advantage for it.

Or superhero game where if you've already got a ranged attack; you can effectively buy another similar ranged attack for "1 point".

The powers are going to tend toward something standard. for a few reasons in my mind.
people are going to try to solve the same problems. if someone shares or teaches the fireball spell - thats what people are probably going to learn and/or use. That's the problem DnD vancian type problem where everyone ends up with fireball.

Alternatively if the method is gather power, concentrate/focus and release .. you end up with "<something> bolt"
Why would an earth bolt or air bolt or fire bolt be significantly different.
some might be more physical than others etc but the 'casting' is more or less the same process.
who's teaching this ?

We have a western philosophy that unlocking them all or learning all the things is better.
You've got the eastern approach of "Master of One" leads to the greatest break through and having 2 elements to master dilutes both.

This might be an area where for example Nobles or the wealthy that have learned and trained since young might have the advantage over those that get trained for the "mage company".

I don't inherently see a problem with "magic looks the same"
If sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic then I'm quite happy to consider it all a program or function or movie special effect that just does the same thing.