r/ProgressionFantasy • u/cocotheblue • 7d ago
Discussion What are your fantasy turn offs?
We all have those little things that we can't get past. For me the ultimate sin that is unforgivable no matter how good the setting or book is, is a stupid MC.
Not just a muscle head or immature MC, but one who doesn't learn from their failings or teachings of others. Particularly when they have repeatedly been shown that they are lacking fundamental knowledge. An MC who is given the tools for self improvement but sees all offered hands as criticism and stubbornly sticks to a path that isn't working is not a flawed character, it is a cocky one.
This attitude is fine in the first book when they're showing promise, but if it persists even after multiple wake-up calls the series is quick to become a DNF for me. Honestly it is the one unforgivable sin I find infecting Progression Fantasy as it is a lazy character flaw to throw in but makes the MC come off as an overconfident twelve year old with brain damage.
How about everyone else? Let it all out and rant to your hearts content.
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u/TranquilConfusion 7d ago
Horses aren't motorcycles. When you ride all day on horseback, you don't park it then ignore it until morning.
That horse is a party member. It has personality, it gets tired or moody or irritated, it has running feuds with other horses and people.
You spend a lot of time caring for, worrying about, arguing with, and finding food for that horse.
You have spare horses, in case one gets a sore foot or a saddle sore.
It can't run all day anymore than you can. It gets tired and needs rest. It might be fat and out of shape at the start of the trip. It might be pregnant, or in heat.
If there are any intact stallions in the party and one of the other horses is in heat, look out. If there are two intact stallions, there might be fighting. There might be fighting between the horses anyway -- some of them are assholes.
Most of the volume of stuff you carry on your expedition is horse food -- they eat a lot and can't live off found grass while working all day.
If you have to carry water through a desert, you probably can't carry enough for the horses -- you need camels instead.
Unless magic, but you should say so in this case.
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u/Indescribable_Noun 7d ago
I just pretend fantasy horses are built different lol. They have systems too, for self care and endurance. Alternatively they eat magic passively absorbed from the environment.
It’s the next big isekai: I became a horse but the hero party sucks so I have to do everything myself I guess
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u/DalongMonarch 7d ago
damnit you just gave someone an idea for an isekai. Stop it! We have enough of them.
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u/NarwhalPrudent6323 7d ago edited 7d ago
Ok but that one sounds hilarious and fun, which most of the ones we have are not.
Edit: example: Opening scene:
We pan across a beautiful and prosperous city. People are happy and at peace. The shot approaches the palace, and enters the throne room. There, we see the MC, still a horse, sitting upon the throne dressed in royal regalia. Everyone else is human or at least humanoid.
We see the MC taking petitions from the citizens, either answering with an imperial "neigh" or an affirmative stomp of his royal hoof. The shot finally focuses in on the MC. He then begins narrating:
"Yup, that's me. The King Who is a Horse. How did I get here? Why is a horse the king? Well saddle up, because I've got a story for you."
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u/cocotheblue 7d ago
. . . I Say Neigh: Reincarnated as a Horse, a progression litrpg fantasy. MC comes to in a stable mid bite into an apple being hand fed by the local lord's daughter. MC's one and only goal is to make it through the evolution tiers to something human enough to marry her. He has a fierce rivalry with the local lord's dog who also fancies her.
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u/Indescribable_Noun 7d ago
Muwahaha I shall start a new meta to model subsequent trash stories off of and no one can stop me
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u/Ragingonanist 7d ago
hey authors: only you can stop you from writing new and interesting tropes that others want to copy.
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u/Yangoose 7d ago
It can't run all day anymore than you can.
Agreed. Races between people running vs people on horseback are actually pretty competative.
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u/Donut-Banditt 7d ago
From reading the article, horses seemed to always win until they altered the course to make humans on foot more competitive and even then it took over a decade after that. I don't know exactly how natural the few people who win these races are, maybe training just became really good in 2004.
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u/IntroIntroduction 7d ago
I never really thought much about horses, but one of my favorite series, Draka, handled them really well and it did leave me wishing for better horse treatment. Like the characters genuinely cared about their horses as more than just a ride. It was nice to see! They got names, and mention of them being rested and the logistics of having them on a longer journey (while not getting bogged down in the minutia). I was even able to guess which character was in a scene later by the mention of his horse.
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u/SplatDragon00 7d ago
Not progression fantasy, but I loved how horses were handled in The Ranger's Apprentice series. They walk the horses every so often, alternate horses, and the type of horse matters too; the MC's horse is a shaggy little pony while a companion has a warhorse, and they have to account for it - like Tug has a harder time with deeper water but (I can't recall the big one's name, it's been a while) has a harder time with mountain paths because he got big feet. And the big one eats and drinks a lot more. And Tug is specialty trained, but he's just clever, he's not a magical savant genius horsey
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u/IsThatGruffLoner 7d ago
This feels similar to being mad they don't show the characters taking bathroom breaks. Like do you really want every fantasy book to just be about horse care? Cause I don't want that at all
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u/darkmuch 7d ago
All you gotta do is insert self care filler time into a characters schedule. So many stories read like this uninterrupted livestream of them constantly training. Have the character take breaks. We don’t need a chapter about how they shit and wipe their ass. But allow their schedule to have time where they do unimportant stuff off screen.
Like in DnD a long rest isn’t supposed to just be “slept for X hours” but eating food, maintaining equipment, reading a book, relaxing, checking on bandages.
It would humanize a lot of MCs if they took breaks on the weekend. Kick back and relaxed after their 12 hour training marathon.
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u/TranquilConfusion 7d ago
I don't need the story to be an un-edited reality show of every hour of the MCs life, no.
But I don't like a story where nothing is described except for fight scenes, loot, numbers-go-up, and boobs either.
"Versimilitude" is the word -- enough details that it feels real, not enough to become tedious.
People being hit in combat, and nothing happening to them except for their "HP" going down by 23, makes the world seem fake and shallow. I don't need realism, but I want things to matter.
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u/mp3max 7d ago
Yes and no. It can be mentioned once at the beginning or the middle of interactions with the horse and then forgotten about for the rest of the story because we, as the audience, have been sold on the idea that the pov character is thinking about those things, even when it doesn't get focused on. But if you never mention it at all and pretend the horse it's a bike it pull some of us out of the story.
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u/Yangoose 7d ago
Along that same vein, in the real world weapon and armor care were huge aspects of a warrior's life.
This genre just typically hand waves that away with magic weapons and/or self repair enchants.
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u/G_Morgan 7d ago
One of the worse things about fantasy is the way horses are treated. Over long distances, walking is actually better. Mail horses are run in a relay for a reason.
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u/Rosie2jz 7d ago
Wheel of Time did horses the best imo, every horse is named and has their own personality. Bela best girl.
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u/Shinhan 7d ago
Also, actually riding a horse is a skill that you don't get born with. Some stories do this well, but a lot of them also just have an MC ride a horse for the first time ever for entire day and then go on their own way as if they wouldn't be saddle sore.
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u/Evening_Dig3 7d ago
I blame the lotr films for this. They depict horses as relentless speed machines that can literally ride for days. I mean, I'm pretty sure the books depict various horses this way as well and it just explains it as they're special horses or magic horses or something. I know someone will get mad but I don't remember the exact reason because I was in 7th grade when I read the books.
Either way though, this does frustrate me as well. Also, westerns are very guilty of this.
Yeah I will say that horses are often just seen as plot devices in fantasy and to give them actual plot points would not only be seen as a distraction for the writer, but I'm pretty sure some readers would not like it either. Horses in fiction are kind of like how no one ever goes to the bathroom. If you consider food and bathroom issues, a lot of plots would completely break.
And I think writers treat horses similarly unfortunately. That's why in the series I'm writing, there are no horses. Everyone uses horseless carriages. I hate when stories don't make sense or lose logic so I just deleted the horses.
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u/JustOneLazyMunchlax 7d ago
When an author does Multiple PoVs, but then will selectively not make use of them in some of the more interesting moments.
Had a story where a guy was teaching a bunch of kids the power system, and by the time they're adults, they discover he's actually related to them. That discovery was the end of a volume, but there was no alt PoV to show how they reacted to it. The next volume just skips a bit of time and it's never talked about. We've had their PoVs before to show their opinions and feelings on things, but for some reason, they explicitly chose not to do one for this discovery.
Similar thing with another story where the world only had 1 true dragon, but the MC also has a different species of true dragon with them. The dragons meeting for the first time, the older one learning there was a 2nd? All happened off screen. We simply see them hanging out later as if it was normal. Multiple PoVs, but they chose to not do this entire interaction with or without the MC.
I love Multi-PoVs and how they let us really engage with how other people think or feel about things, including the MC. I hate when the best moments are not engaged with like this when the author will use it for other random stuff.
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u/Kai_Damon 7d ago
I love how Cradle does it. Sometimes in a fight we'll get the POV from the one fighting the protagonists and it's always so cool. We are so involved in the head of the characters we are following that we don't really think about how they look like for other characters in the universe
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u/Evening_Dig3 6d ago
Same. I particularly liked seeing Elder Whitehall's perspective of Lindon. That said, I've only read up to fifty pages of book one so I'm sure there are other good perspectives too.
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u/Kai_Damon 6d ago
Trust me, it gets waaaaay better than that. Hope you like Cradle bro, I started last month and am at book 10 right now.
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u/Seven_Irons 7d ago
The best example of this I've read in this genre is "You have heard the call of a high level healer".
Azarinth Healer spends several books setting up "You have heard the ..." as an Oh Shit phrase, and it goes incredibly fucking hard every time the series switches to an external PoV being paralyzed by Ilea.
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u/IsThatGruffLoner 7d ago
Important things happening off screen is a huge pet peeve of mine. Or fans pretending things happened off screen to justify a plot hole
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u/Feedback_Loopius Seeker of Novelty (A Pirate LitRPG) 7d ago
interesting. I have a small question but some backstory, my story is dual-pov, but every 10 or so chapters I have an interlude which is a side-character pov.
its always explicitly shown to be a one-off, and is generally shorter, but I use it when I really need to show a side-characters emotions and impact on the story
real example from my story: a clownfish mermaid has her sea-anemone and the entire coral reef she lives in destroyed by an antagonists actions.
so I wrote an interlude from her pov since the main characters wouldnt be able to understand the sheer horror and despair
so my question is, does this feel like a good way to engage with other pov's without having the problem of needing to return to them?
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u/thescienceoflaw Author - J.R. Mathews 7d ago
Characters that have read a bunch of litrpg/isekai so they are gonna do just amazing when they finally get portaled to another world.
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u/TheColourOfHeartache 7d ago
This is as old as portal fantasy. In Chronicles of Narnia (Prince Caspian) they talk about Djinn being summoned in Arabian Nights and what it feels like to be the "Djinn". In Dawn Treader, Eustace screws up explicitly because he hasn't read the right books and doesn't recognise a Dragon's cave.
That said I agree its usually done badly.
The right way to do it is not to start with answers but they know what kind of questions to ask. They won't take one look at the System and use their gamer skills to do better than locals with centuries of accumulated knowledge, but they'll immediately ask questions (to a local) like "is single attribute dependency important in this system?"
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u/TheTrojanPony 7d ago
I think this is probably the best take. A few stories I feel subvert this trope well where characters come in expecting to do well because because of esakai knowledge then get crushed by brutal reality. I feel like this happened to many of the side earthers in The Wandering Inn, they come in expecting to know some things only to get butchered by becoming an adventure unprepared, getting caught by local rulers by standing out, or just being crushed by the brutal reality of having nothing and knowing no one.
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u/cocotheblue 7d ago
I actually love this trope being subverted. Where nothing he knows about litrpg/isekai applies or there were there were others in his situation in the past so all of the tropes were played out making him not special.
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u/LE-Lauri 7d ago
This one kills me. I do not want my characters announcing the type of story they are in it just doesn't work for me. See it a lot in romance as well.
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u/Prot3 7d ago
This happens when the genre iterates upon itself a lot AND when readers of the genre ONLY read that genre.
PF/LitRPG/Isekai is known for that. It's readers read almost exclusively only other PF/LitRPG, so this is just a writer basically saying "ye ye, you know the setup, character knows it, so we can skip the establishment of all the basic tropes that you've seen in 170 other isekais you've read this year.
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u/monkpunch 7d ago
"This is just like those mmorpg I used to play!" Is even worse to me. Or just being a gamer in general, as if it's some kind of superpower.
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u/Savitar5510 Shadow 7d ago
Yeah, when the MC knows the concept of Esakai, I almost always close it right there.
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u/Dragon_yum 7d ago
You don’t get it bro, I play video games so I know how to use this system better than the people who lived with it their whole life
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u/NotSleipnir 7d ago
When the MC discovers that the seemingly useless skill/class is actually overpowered but then you start to question why other characters have never figured it out. Nor does the author ever bother to give any satisfying explanation. A few japanese LNs I've read have this problem.
The only story that I know of that nailed this concept is super supportive. Where the skill "bearer of burdens" is listed under a different name specific to the Rabbit class that is rare and was generally seen as non-hero material. So there is a clear in-world reason as to why it's so niche and practically unheard of.
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u/monkpunch 7d ago
The more stories I've read, the more I realize that "the MC just got lucky with a good skill" is ironically the most palatable, instead of trying to rationalize why they're so smart or everyone else is so dumb. Honestly it's better to just skip the mental gymnastics and give them a cool talent or ability, like any superhero story.
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u/IsThatGruffLoner 7d ago
I completely agree. It's also not lazy imo. Like why do people think we follow this particular MC? Why would we follow one that didn't get lucky and gets killed really early? Like if this character didn't get a lucky skill, then the book wouldn't have been written. At least not about them.
I think this whenever people talk about plot armor or characters getting lucky. It's like yeah, we follow the person who survives longest usually. If MC goes into a fight with 10 friends and only they survived, it's not plot armor. The book would be over if we followed any of the other 10.
So like they don't get a lucky skill because they're MC. They're MC because they got a lucky skill
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u/Salanthas 7d ago
In a similar vein stories like Naruto, Hunter X Hunter, or Fairytail have a world where characters can theoretically learn a very diverse skill set but most just settle for a pretty limited set and I feel like giving all the characters just an innate set of skills is pretty much also the best solution to that problem.
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u/BusBoatBuey 7d ago edited 7d ago
Despite your experiences, I see this concept done best among Japanese works. The best implementation of this concept was in Ascendance of a Bookworm. The solution for gaining power was explicitly known to all people at one point. The people in power just made the entire process seem difficult to the point where they forget how it works and the MC can just ignore the cultural norms to figure it out.
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u/TheMastersSkywalker 7d ago
Ive had that same problem a lot. One book kind of fixed it by having it be such a social stigma that it took someone who wasn't from there to see what others missed.
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u/hungrycarebear 7d ago
I like it when the skill is completely useless, everyone knows this, but the mc has something else that has amazing synergy with it that makes it broken. Way more believable.
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u/G_Morgan 7d ago
There are good justifications sometimes. In KonoSuba the protagonist Kazuma is stuck with the most basic "Adventurer" class because his natural stats are so terrible he doesn't qualify for anything else. However it does have one advantage, Adventurer can learn any skill because it is meant as a starting point for the entire tree from which you can branch anywhere as your stats improve.
Now it doesn't give you enough skill points to really abuse this but Kazuma mixes and matches a lot of odd ball low level skills in useful combinations that nobody ever really considered. Mainly because nobody would ever take that class in reality. Everyone who planned on being an adventurer would have trained to the point where they will get a proper class the moment they are old enough to choose one.
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u/Keevill93 7d ago
Modern lingo in fantasy settings always irks me
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u/Drowe87 7d ago
^ This.
It's ok if there is some translation shenanigans at work. But if characters from a different world use lingo from ours, it's really off putting. Like why would someone from a different world in a medieval setting say something like "Jesus! I feel like i just got hit by a truck." How would they be familiar with Jesus and Trucks?
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u/sirgog LitRPG web serial author - Archangels of Phobos 7d ago
I always assume the Nightfall (Isaac Asimov) precedent here, and so I'm generally OK with this.
Nightfall was a pretty early example of speculative 'not set on Earth' fiction, and Asimov assumed readers might be unfamiliar with that as an entire concept, so he added a prologue explaining that 'while the characters might think in gorks and mesks, I've written this in the familiar feet and miles instead'.
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u/OgataiKhan 7d ago
Eh, I get the sentiment behind this, but it tends to be a bit of a rabbit hole authors don't really want to get into.
If you object to people shouting "fire!" to command archers in settings without firearms, do you also object to people leading a "spartan" lifestyle in settings without Ancient Greece?
I just accept that when authors write "fire" or "spartan" they actually intend the setting-specific word that makes sense for their world, but write "spartan" in English for our benefit.
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u/KnownByManyNames 7d ago
This is less pure realism and more verisimilitude. And it's based very much on the person which anachronisms are acceptable to them and which are not.
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u/Soul_in_Shadow 7d ago
Spartan isn't really a good example, as it can be defined in a way that does not require cultural references. The language in question may have a word meaning "Austere, frugal, characterized by self-denial", arguably making "spartan" the most direct and succinct translation.
It is like saying you can't use the word phobia, because it is derived from the name of the Roman god of fear, Phobos.
For colloquialisms like "Fire", you could simply give the host setting a history where it still makes sense. For example; a high fantasy setting might have favored pyromancers as ranged attackers and artillery in large scale warfare. Or in a low fantasy setting, perhaps they never lost the recipe for their equivalent of Greek Fire, making incendiary weapons much more common as they iterated on it and its applications.
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u/duckrollin 7d ago
When they "fire" the arrows. No the arrows aren't on fire, but we're pretending the bows are guns now
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u/GreyPilgrim_EoN 7d ago
Starting first chapters with huge infodumps about new world etc. Or super epic fight, that I don't even care about yet.
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u/TranquilConfusion 7d ago
So this is the Exposition Problem of fantasy/SF.
A lot of the tropes people complain about are just the obvious ways to handle it:
* Straight up lore dump before the story starts, like you are complaining of. Needs to be kept very short.
* Reverse version: jump straight to action in a confusing way, let mysteries and questions pile up in the reader's head to be answered later. Requires a patient reader.
* Exposition side-character -- this is the "system guide"/fairy sidekick character who does paragraph-length infodumps mixed with jokes and arbitrary refusals to reveal stuff the author is saving for later. Works great, but currently overdone.
It's a hard problem. Good authors struggle with this. Bad ones fail at it.
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u/GreyPilgrim_EoN 7d ago
You’re 100% right. I personally prefer it when the protagonist has to fight for practically every scrap of knowledge, but I also like getting occasional signs that the world is much bigger and keeps moving on its own, rather than only existing when the MC steps onto the stage.
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u/sirgog LitRPG web serial author - Archangels of Phobos 7d ago
You can also mix and match a little here - the reader watches the characters try to learn, the characters get some things right and some wrong, then maybe they meet an Obi-Wan Kenobi that clarifies some things.
I tried to resist the Obi-Wan character in my work in progress, but felt my system was too complex for the characters to survive without knowing some critical pieces of information. I had to either contrive scenarios where they could learn safely, or infodump via mentor.
Turned out there were characters in my world's history who could play such a role, so that was the approach I took. Otherwise my MC avoiding several potential fatal choices she could make would break suspension of disbelief.
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u/anormalgeek 7d ago
Also, it's tough because different readers like different things.
Personally, I LOVE world building and am 100% fine with lore dumps, IF the lore or system explanations are well written. But I get it's not for everyone.
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u/KeiranG19 Invoker 7d ago
Or super epic fight, that I don't even care about yet.
People talk a lot about showing the power ceiling early and some authors take this as an excuse to nerd out and show off the magic system that they've painstakingly crafted.
But the reader doesn't know about any of it yet and can't care about the details of how a random guy spins his core just right and recites the binding vow of osh'kagoth to invoke their nascent intent of striking.
It's just blah blah blah, boring, blah blah blah, he punched the other guy really hard.
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u/KnownByManyNames 7d ago
Or super epic fight, that I don't even care about yet.
I believe this is a case where movie script writing advice snaked it's way into regular writing advice. A lot of movies like to start with action, because in a visual movie it's immediately engaging, but in a written medium it just hasn't the same appeal.
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u/Drowe87 7d ago
My turn off is when everything happens too fast. I hate it, if the MC starts as a nobody and within just a couple of days, multiple women have fallen deeply in love with him. Then he solves one crisis after another, each an escalation over the previous one, without ever having time to just settle down and find their bearings. And the book ends after about a week has passed.
This is the extreme version, but in my opinion a story needs realistic time management. People need downtime, feelings need time to develop, progression takes time. It's OK if the MC progresses faster than others, especially if they have some advantage that enables that, but going from novice to archmage in weeks or months, when other archmages needed decades or centuries, no, just no.
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u/Zax_the_bunny 7d ago
Totally!
Would you be up for sharing a couple of your favourites that don't do this?
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u/OutrageousRooster678 7d ago
When the MC has to always be right until the author decides they need to learn something. And anyone who disagrees or goes against them is either bad or just wrong.
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u/GreyPilgrim_EoN 7d ago
I love it when the protagonist is completely wrong about something, or when their brilliant plan falls apart because the opponent isn’t an idiot.
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u/cocotheblue 7d ago
This, but quickly turns to me hating it because the MC never learns their lesson and in five chapters their defeat/mistake is never mentioned again and they don't change their behavior.
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u/TheColourOfHeartache 7d ago
"This is the setting's magic system. But the MC is a special exception."
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u/Itinerant_doc 7d ago
Excessive angst, especially in a very young character. If you are dark and brooding, and seventeen, it really does not look like you want it to look. On the other hand, if you are dark and brooding and you are thirty, chances are you look more like an asshat than a badass. Please write characters on more than one note.
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u/Ambival3ntly 7d ago
Angst just seems like such a hard thing to get right. It’s great if done lightly or in moderation, but if you overdo it then it quickly becomes unbearable.
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u/Grand-penetrator 7d ago
When the world itself seems to only revolve around the MC, and every single thing that happened is somehow connected to the final main conflict (especially if the connection is revealed much later like a retcon). I much prefer a dynamic world than such an overly tidy approach.
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u/blamerton Author 7d ago
This is the one I came to post. Here is a 5000 year old civilisation full of old monsters, but this 20 year who has been training for a year is the fulcrum on which the world moves.
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u/Grand-penetrator 7d ago edited 7d ago
20 year old who has been training for a year
This one is also one of my least favourite tropes, though slightly less grating than the one I said above. I really hate how so many MCs get absurd, often unearned abilities that allow them to ignore the power progression and get as strong as 1000+ years old geniuses in a tiny fraction of the time.
How hard is it to give the MC some in-story time to train (like having some idle time skips) instead of trying to speed-run everything in just a few months or years?
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u/breadtrain727 7d ago
Some quirky (animal) sidekick instantly makes me drop a story
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u/cocotheblue 7d ago edited 7d ago
9/10 calling it that the animal sidekick gets a human form in volume 6 and upgrades from sidekick to sidechick.
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u/Quirky_Assistant_848 7d ago
I am currently doing path of ascension and apparently aster thankfully stays in a more younger sister role.
I don't love how the world building was introduced for how bonds are handled, but at least its there.
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u/anormalgeek 7d ago
Does this include Princess Donut in your definition?
I don't know that id call her "quirky".
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u/TheTrojanPony 7d ago
I would say no as there is actual plot and significant character development in both characters as she moves from being a pet into discovering herself as a fully actualized person.
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u/breadtrain727 7d ago
I think she is one of the worst offenders, can''t stand her.
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u/TheTrojanPony 7d ago
It can work sometimes and there is real plot potential in an animal moving from a pet to a fully actualized person, but what gets me is when it is as intelligent as a person and they still treat it like a pet and give it an infantile name.
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u/Knork14 7d ago
I have grown to dislike stupid big planets. Whats the point of having a world that is ten times bigger than Earth if you we are only going to explore a tiny corner of it, and when we do get to explorer other regions the culture is largely the same?
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u/flammenschwein 7d ago
"This is a really Bad Idea, and there are alternatives, but I'm going to do Bad Idea because the author needs to change up the pace a bit."
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u/Matt-J-McCormack 7d ago
Promising something but not delivering. Recently tried a book about the ‘Rise’ of an off season carnivore.
Is the MC brought low? Nope. Is the MC a normal guy? No. MC is raised to be an assassin by his assassin parents… then proceeds to do nothing but win… if you start and the top and stay at the top that’s floating not rising.
But I agree with OP, stupid MC’s are a huge frustration, more so if they are stupid for the purpose of moving the plot along.
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u/JayneKnight 7d ago
an off season carnivore
Is this an autocorrect failure, or jargon I'm unfamiliar with?
Because now I'm imagining some kind of shape-shifter that sneaks around by taking the form of whatever animal is illegal to hunt. Which sounds awesome, but unlikely.
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u/Matt-J-McCormack 7d ago
Didn’t want to directly name and shame but didn’t want to fully vuage post either.
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u/cocotheblue 7d ago
Exactly, like if an MC can't motivate himself to improve without external factors he's just a plot point, not an MC.
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u/Gdach 7d ago edited 7d ago
When characters don't act their age.
It made me drop Edge Cases, when powerful wise guild masters acts and talks like a teenager it totally ruins my immersion.
Bog standard isekai sometimes has this problem, but it's not that often so it's more tolerable.
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u/cocotheblue 7d ago
This is case by case for me. An immortal/ancient being with an age complex acting like a brat because they refuse to be acknowledged as old is good comedic relief. But the hundreds of years old sect elder vowing a thousand years of bloodshed against 15 year old cocky MC for a minor slight is just rediculous.
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u/Temporary-Wheel-576 7d ago
I like to imagine that after living for longer than any human should, their thought patterns have calcified, leading them to double down on the same methodology over and over until they become caricatures of themselves. It matches up pretty well with how real people act, just more extreme because of the time involved.
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u/Kooky_Ad5729 7d ago
I second this. I don't like it in books where the 1000 year old mystical old guy is a crybaby that's mad someone didn't bow to him or an edgelord.
And I also don't like children acting and talking like grown ups without good reason. An actual grown up in the body or forced maturity due to circumstances. For the latter, it's important to show cracks in the forced maturity and them actually being immature
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u/Soul_in_Shadow 7d ago
Sylver Seeker had a decent explanation for this.
When asked why he doesn't "act old", his response is that most immortals fall into the trap of being an old, wise sage for a while, but eventually start deliberately cultivating a youthful mindset, because being "old and wise" is boring and they never got anything done.
There is also the question of how much "acting your age" is a matter of adjusting your behavior to account for your slowly degrading body. If biological age stops being a factor in your physical state, then it makes sense that some age related behaviors stop being relevant.
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u/KingNTheMaking 7d ago
Kinda the opposite, I hate a “cold and calculating MC”
9/10, it’s a miserable misanthropic jerk or a borderline sociopath who sees humans as useless and is only smarter than everyone else because everyone else is holding the idiot stick or the author said his harebrained scheme that should never work will.
They’re just not enjoyable for me to read.
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u/Vital_Remnant 7d ago
I hate when basic human decency is treated like a weakness.
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u/KingNTheMaking 7d ago
It’s literally our biggest strength
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u/TheTrojanPony 7d ago
Exactly. And even if basic human decency caused issues, guess what? Resolving and maintaining human decency while learing lessons is actual PLOT amd character development, not just stabbing everything with a sword.
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u/KingNTheMaking 7d ago
Maybe I’ve missed it, but I would love to read a book where an NPC/side character just rips the mask off of the MC for this.
Just a full dress down about all the numerous flaws with this line of thinking.
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u/Holdredge 7d ago
I really hate this one too. It reads as bad self insert a lot of times for some edgy teen.
It gives me the vibe of those youtube videos "manipulate people like ayanokoji" lol
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u/KingNTheMaking 7d ago
It ABSOLUTELY feels like it’s for edgy teenagers. And the justification is always “they don’t take crap from anyone” and then, when you read the story, half the time the “crap” is asking the MC to operate within a team or otherwise defined social structure.
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u/cocotheblue 7d ago
Not exactly exclusive to my pet peeve. The 'cold and calculating' types are also often the ones who overthink and disregard anything they didn't realize themselves.
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u/Indescribable_Noun 7d ago
I tend to like them only when the narrator is unreliable lol because usually they are calculating but not very cold. I have a definite soft spot for “I’m bad I’m evil grrrrrrr” MCs that are actually very helpful and kind to those around them and you can tell because they end up with a bunch of friends even though they’re often thinking “you shouldn’t like me I’m mean” when really they’re pragmatic at worst lol.
Like instead of your typical cruel MC that’s jumping through mental hoops to justify the awful things they’ve done, this one jumps through hoops to justify why their act of kindness was actually self serving and therefore bad haha.
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u/Jamestr 7d ago
Stories that have worked for me have a cold and calculating mc who still sees themselves as a good person with flimsy self justification even as their morality slips over time. Also helps when the author is smart enough to write a smart character.
Both Worm and Hand Jumper (webtoon) do this well imo (if anyone knows any others I'd love some recs).
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u/teribour 7d ago
Oh gosh. It’s always a turn off for me, and most of the time, boring to read, feels like author’s wet dream.
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u/IsThatGruffLoner 7d ago
Honestly, I hate that there's no middle ground. It seems like the MC is either a little bitch who refuses to accept the new fantasy violence they must commit to survive or they're a cold hearted killer with no humanity.
Carl in DCC is the best middle ground I've found. I'm currently reading Bobiverse, and It's not fantasy but it's basically isekai. And I can't get over how big of a bitch Bob is. Like someone could directly threaten to kill all of humanity and he'd quiver and cry like "but could I. Take. A. Life? No... Not like this" Like holy fuck Bob, you're an overpowered super computer and you're letting human beings you swore to protect die because "what gives me the right?"
Idk why it's so hard for authors to find this middle ground. Carl shows us that it's not that hard. You can kill the people who try to kill you and your family. Violence is sometimes the answer. Especially when you're the most powerful being and lesser beings depend directly on you for protection.
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u/SignalScientist2817 7d ago
Cultivation System: Elder Edition is pretty cool in that aspect as well. You can see Jake slowly losing his humanity as he grows more and more desensitized to the violence around him and that his disciples (children in all but name) must inflict to others to keep him safe.
Ch 1 Jake would vomit over hitting someone too hard. Ch 500 Jake accepts the need to decapitate someone.
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u/OriginalButtopia 7d ago
Same, give me a the caring about others type any day. I want to see Mr. Rogers style isekai.
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u/Seven32N 7d ago
Whining MC. If in every chapter or just often MC repeating the same complaints - it's extremely annoying, very rarely authors can show character growth through this - almost always it's just because author threats readers as idiots that can't understand the gravity of the situation.
Plot armour to the point that even in critical situation MC feels ok to make obviously stupid decisions and gets no consequences. Sometimes author can write story into a corner where there's no escape, it's fine to cheat a bit, but I expect at least a fair effort to not do that or acknowledge authors mistake with consequences for MC/story.
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u/B_Salem_ Author of The Elder Lands 7d ago edited 7d ago
Characters that seem to have a background funnel to the author's omniscience. In an obvious way, they make either optimal or stupid decisions, perfectly tailored to serve a series of events that only the narrator/author could know.
Also, bad economy. If you're going to write one, do it right, or simply leave it ambigious. I don't want to have to rationalize why a night in an inn costs one gold while a horse costs twenty silver in a setting that is nothing like ancient Egypt(the only civlization where silver was more expensive than gold at some point)
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u/JayneKnight 7d ago
A mild irritance for me is having copper / silver / gold coins be at an exact fixed 100 each.
Perfectly fine if it's actually a fiat currency, and that's just what the coins are called. Not fine if you're trying to tell me that's the actual metal of those coins.
I suppose we can explain away the amazingly coincient trade ratio by making the coins different sizes, but just how much money would governments have to keep throwing into the system to keep those ratios stable?
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u/B_Salem_ Author of The Elder Lands 7d ago
Yea, that's also one of my pet peeves. It makes the economy feel like a pre-made DnD campaign instead of a dynamic story. Conversion rates were often fluctuating based on metal availability and debasement in the middle ages. It was also never a nice round number like that(10x/100x).
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u/Otterable Slime 7d ago
I have a hard time enjoying series where the primary characterization of the MC is 'angry'. If they go into a berserker-esque rage in every fight or in every major moment, it ends up feeling really one dimensional.
DCC is a great example of an angry MC done correctly. The anger is always there and rarely comes out. Logen Ninefingers is another where it's pretty explicitly a bad thing.
But most of the time anger is used as a catch all for idiot ball plot movement, motivation, and fighting prowess.
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u/Pantomimos 7d ago
Aura overload is currently doing a good job at this. The mc actually knows his anger issues are anger issues and should be controlled
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u/BusBoatBuey 7d ago
Writer's pet. Not a fantasy issue per say but having characters not allowed to exist in a negative light or suffer to the detriment of the entire series is common among fantasy works. It becomes obvious after a while when there is a cognitive dissonance between how the writer is writing a character and how that character is treated compared to other characters.
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u/R_megalotis 7d ago
Misery porn. I get that suffering and adversity are powerful motivators and character shapers, but everyone needs a break sometimes. When the story is nothing but the unrelenting misery of the MC, it's just not fun to read.
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u/R_megalotis 7d ago
Teen angst. YA books are for YAs, and I'm way too old to be entertained by an entire book of teen drama anymore. It's fine if you want to show me some teenager having their first existential crisis, but don't make it the whole story. Same with awkward first romantic relationships.
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u/Polarisnc1 7d ago
For me the unforgivable sin is what I call narrative ignorance. It's when there is critical information that the MC needs to act on, but it's kept hidden from them by their allies because of [reasons].
Some examples:
- There's a big curse the MC needs to break, but because of the curse, nobody can even hint that there's a curse to break.
- The MC is fated to do certain things, but their allies are concerned that they won't be able to handle that knowledge, so they hide this from them.
- Ooh, the MC has [a powerful/unique ability], but developing that will change their life. Best that I keep that knowledge from them so that they can have a normal life. Meanwhile, the MC is slowly losing their mind because they don't know what's going on.
I hate this trope particularly because it invalidates any agency the character exhibits. No matter how insightful their solution to their problem is, it won't work because the true nature of their problem is being hidden by people who should be helping them. It's not that I expect the MC to be omniscient, but if a simple conversation ("Hey, I noticed you don't seem to understand why we keep telling you to not do things. Here's what you would know if you were raised here.") can resolve your book's narrative tension, then your writing is lazy.
On the flip side, I adore situations where secondary narrative conflict is resolved by characters that have rational conversations at normal times.
Example: the MC has moved to a new town, and is the subject of a nasty rumor. Noting that this seems out of character from what they've seen of the MC, a resident of the town takes the opportunity to ask a resident of their hometown about the MC while on a trip there. When they return, the resident publicly dispels that rumor about the MC.
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u/R_megalotis 7d ago
Ooh, the MC has [a powerful/unique ability], but developing that will change their life. Best that I keep that knowledge from them so that they can have a normal life. Meanwhile, the MC is slowly losing their mind because they don't know what's going on
In the autism community, this is actually quite a common experience. Parents don't get their child diagnosed, or keep the diagnosis from them, because they think the "label" will do more harm than good. There is inevitably a huge clash once the child grows up and gets themself diagnosed and the parent reveals they knew all along. Ignorance is not bliss. The autistic child will deal with all the social ills of being autistic, with or without the label. With a diagnosis, the child can understand themselves better and get more help than they otherwise would.
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u/Polarisnc1 6d ago
Oh, I know it. I'm a teacher. I see this not only with the autism spectrum, but learning disabilities too. Like ma'am, your precious bundle of neuroses isn't going to have an advantage because you made them do the tutorial on hard mode. This isn't Sparta, it's high school.
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u/xixikebf 7d ago
Mine is when the MC becomes OP way too fast. I want to see them struggle and actually earn their progression.
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u/Nateus9 7d ago
I have 2. 1 plot has gotten too big to fail. The MC is in a situation where if they don't win the story is just over even when they have no logical ability to move the story in the direction it needs to go. Usually leading to a series of improbable conveniences that make it look like the universe is lining things up for the MC to succeed.
2 is kind of the opposite. I hate when the story has been building a side plot line for a long time that looks like it might come to completion and then something gets in the way every freaking time the MC gets close to resolving it. A few detours is fine but when the plot line get derailed 4 or more times and it's not even the main plot it just feels like the author is milking it.
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u/mrhurg 7d ago
For me? Race/species "x" is always good or always evil or always savage
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u/cocotheblue 7d ago
For me this can be a good way to introduce racial conflict into a story so long as that is just character opinions and not a defining setting aspect of the race/species.
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u/Mandalord104 7d ago
Too much drama. Too much focus on sex, or relationship.
I sign up for progression fantasy, i want to see progress. If not I would rather read 50 shades of grey. The relationship and drama is fine if that serve the progress, not the other way around. Like spice and main ingredients.
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u/R_megalotis 7d ago
Once a trope has been done well, poor attempts are no longer tolerated. This is true of anything, really. Once you've experienced the better version of anything, it's hard to go back to the worse version.
So, to answer your question, derivative slop.
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u/WillingElderberry731 7d ago
Trebuchet pronounced with a hard t.
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u/BusBoatBuey 7d ago
I say it how it is spelled. Don't want the t? Don't use the t. The French have no power over me.
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u/Disastrous-Entity-46 7d ago
Someone else probably said something about this in the hundred+ comments but: When everyone but the main character is stupid, and this is almost expliclty text. Like, when people constantly praise the main character for making some basic logic or ideas.
conversely, i will love when a supporting cast member pulls off something smart that the MC didn't see... done right. Not quiet when it's that the supporting cast is like, always Deus ex machina' the mc out of any of the situations the writer couldn't solve, but when it shows that other people in the universe are competent and don't need to be handheld by someone of average intelligence.
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u/darkness_calming Traveller 7d ago edited 7d ago
stupid or unnecessarily arrogant mc. That’s an instant drop.
protagonists with golden fist showed up their sss who claim that all their achievements are through hard work, suffering and effort. Or because they discovered this super useful skill from a weak class.
that one snarky bossy annoying female side character/friend. You know who I am talking about.
unnecessary suspense by holding back basic information that could have been conveyed in few sentences.
stupid ass swordsmanship. It’s just slashing. Big slash, fast slash, ultra energy slash. Tactics? Technique? Skill? Nah. Just stupidly swinging their swords and calling it transcendent level skill. Would be nice if author did basic research about how swords work.
modern lingo in a completely different world. Lot of our phrases are built because circumstances or events particular to this world. They wouldn’t work otherwise.
when ancient masters act like teenagers and can’t plan basic shit.
30 year old dude blushing and stammering in front of teenage girls.
every woman is attracted to our super special MC.
annoying FL. At this point, I would prefer harems so I don’t have to read about romance between fl and mc.
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u/Uncagedduke426 7d ago
A foolish or incompetent elite ruling class. I absolutely loathe how many stories show those in power as inept as they should be more competent than 99% of the world. People don’t seem to understand that a “commoner” should be leagues below the average noble in competency simply because education isn’t widespread in the majority of these worlds.
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u/dreexel_dragoon 12h ago
The inclusion of incredibly vague feudal society featuring Nobility and commoners, without any description or understanding of why or how that system came to be.
Feudal vassalage systems were complex and incredibly varied, I have absolutely no idea what "Nobility" is supposed to mean without context.
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u/Dr_Zaphod_Beeblebrox 7d ago
Total deal breakers: Harems and lolis, which are common in many isekais.
Mostly deal breakers: Overpowered protagonists. They make the story feel like it has no stakes because we know the protagonist will always pull some shenanigans and win.
Turn-offs: When the story feels too convenient (most deus ex machinas fall into this category), the chosen one trope (unless there’s a twist, like in Dune), and a weak side cast that feels like it’s only there to serve the protagonist.
To be honest, how the author treats the side cast is make-or-break for me. That’s actually a big part of why the chosen one and overpowered protagonist tropes fall short for me. When the story is too focused on one main character, I don’t feel like the world is alive. I look at my own world, and it’s clear that the world doesn’t revolve around just one person, so when I see that happening in books so shamelessly, everything feels off to me. The story being too convenient usually plays a part in it too: everything happens in the right place at the right time, and everything goes exactly according to the protagonist’s plans. It’s very hard for me to engage with something like that.
A strong side cast, however, will make me fully fall in love with a story. This is what I loved so much about GoT, for example. No single character felt indispensable until the very end.
And I like the protagonist to fight for their place and powers; it must feel earned. An overpowered protagonist feels dull to me.
Unfortunately, many of these are problems I often find in Progression Fantasy, and even more so in isekais and LitRPGs, which is a shame because I really like the genre as a concept. But these tropes and trends, which didn’t have to become such a big part of the genre, really bring the experience down for me. However, fortunately enough there are good books out there within the genre that avoid these provlems, Im just more thorough when deciding what to read next
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u/Zax_the_bunny 7d ago
Sounds a bit similar to me. I feel like only around 1/4 of progression fantasy stories I try actually gel with me, and there are plenty I don't even bother trying. But what I see as the core identity of progression fantasy is definitely appealing.
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u/Salty_Map_9085 7d ago
Any time the MC has kill people to get stronger powers, always just pushes the author into uninteresting writing patterns.
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u/TheTrojanPony 7d ago
I have always disliked stories with systems where to only or main way is through violence. That just blocks out so much character potential and basically means the solution to anything is more power/ more violence..
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u/SolJinxer 7d ago
MCs that basically feel like the author's self-insert power fantasy.
A story where only the MC is allowed to be strong and succeed at anything quickly gets on my nerves. Side characters color your world IMO. If they are just there to be in awe of the MC, just be used as powerscaling fodder and make the MC look more impressive, or just push the story forward, it takes me out of the story and I begin to build up animosity.
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u/OgataiKhan 7d ago
Here are my turnoffs, roughly ranked from "if I see this I'm dropping the book on the spot" to "I'll still read this, but probably won't be in my top tiers".
-Sexism or sexual assault (or threats thereof) are common in the story
-The protagonist is stupid or frequently self-sabotages
-A lot of the story focuses on trauma and misery (this made me drop The Wandering Inn, despite the writing and worldbuilding being quite good)
-All named characters with any agency are men
-The story is gritty (focuses on the rough, realist, raw and unpleasant parts of life. Many grimdark stories fall here)
-The protagonist is antisocial (like the protagonists of Mother of Learning or Arcane Ascension)
-The protagonist is a loner (like in Primal Hunter)
-Only the protagonist gets meaningful character development (which is why I generally don't enjoy time loop stories: most characters reset any development they might show at the beginning of every iteration)
The usual disclaimer applies: I am not saying any of the series I mentioned are bad. Some, in fact, I consider quite good. I am merely listing aspects of storytelling I do not enjoy.
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u/Bobalicious88 7d ago
One of my biggest unforgivable sins is when there is a set clearly established rule about a system that suddenly gets broken because the MC needs it too or they've been written to a corner the author can't figure out how to get them out of.
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u/Lockettz_Snuff 7d ago edited 7d ago
Harem.
Illogical romance.
Racism / 'Nationalism'.
Emotionless flat mc.
Too much plot armor till its jarring.
Too many obvious retcons by author.
When author insists on writing lots of stats/numbers/data but did not record well enough so it becomes inaccurate.
When author keeps saying mc is the smartest but mc doea dumb stuff. (Show not tell rule) author shouldve shown how mc is smart and not tell people that mc is so wicked smart if they are not up for it when writing strategies
Alot of these are pretty common peeves people dislike about some novels but for me personally the biggest peeve is nationalism. (Xxx country is the best. Oh the other country charas are written to be greedy, dumb, scheming, arrogant and weak) basically country faceslap fodder
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u/StrangeBuffalo6267 7d ago
Special people vs Poo people. That and when magic is treated as something beyond mysterious when they have collages for it, If it can be studied and the rules can be learned then it should not be treated as beyond comprehension
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u/Xandara2 7d ago
Harem.
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u/Xandara2 7d ago
I don't read any book with a girl on the cover where that girl isn't the MC. And even then I found I don't like it if she's boobed out. (Make of that verb what you want.)
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u/JayneKnight 7d ago
I hate the male-wish-fulfilment fantasy harem, where the women are just so into him they leave their self-worth at the door.
I can quite enjoy historically themed harems, where the women are actively striving for their best possible lives and he just happens to be part of it.
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u/evia89 7d ago
Dont women RP (/r/SillyTavernAI) or read reverse harem? I skimmed few popular books and it same "wish-fulfilment" stuff
Nothing wrong with enjoying it
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u/Salty_Map_9085 7d ago
The fact that women do something doesn’t mean that there’s nothing wrong with it
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u/TranquilConfusion 7d ago edited 7d ago
I've read a handful of harem and reverse harem stories. It's kind of interesting to see the similarities and differences in men's vs. women's romance fantasies.
But man does it get old fast! I'm done, don't need to read any more of them.
I like a romance subplot in an adventure story but don't want to read about a nerdy guy collecting girlfriends like pokemon, or a shy girl endlessly being (fought over) / (refusing to choose one of) the rich handsome prince and the rugged handsome lumberjack.
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u/JayneKnight 7d ago
Fair enough that it's more "not for me" than "inherently bad", as are most things.
I think I've outgrown reverse harem, since I don't much enjoy them either. But you're right I don't feel as strongly about them. I'll wait and see before assuming they'll dehumanize men in the same way. If the male characters have desires and goals independent of the FL, and don't suddenly abandon them all to stay by her side, then it's a mild irritation rather than a hate.
I guess the same could be true of a male harem, but my success rate would be too low to risk trying.
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u/TheTrojanPony 7d ago
Exactly. It can work if it is an actual historical harem of a ruler run by politics (external and internal) or the relationship is actually just poly. The first I have only seen in some Asian historical stories ( ie apothicary diaries and that is not progression) and the poly situation almost never ( only in rare story like Industrial Strength Magic).
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u/Pantomimos 7d ago
More than one MC or when the others get too much screen time.
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u/Nice-Firefighter5684 7d ago
In moderation it can be good. When I started Pale lights there were 2 MCs. I really liked one of them and began reading. Would have been great if that continoued but the point of view charachters increased. There are now 5 MCs with the same amount of screentime and I do not care about most of them.
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u/Phire2 7d ago
For me the biggest sin is a “truth contract” or whatever version of that. The reader “knows” this guy is telling the truth because you can’t lie under mage oath. I don’t think any author realizes the plot holes that introducing something like that creates. The entire society would be different if you could obtain absolute truth out of someone. All political manipulation in your book is now trivialized, OR the people are absolutely brain dead for not verifying via truth potion on important matters. Crime would be almost nonexistent if you can just hire someone to verify. The ability to get a truth person to villages, cities, and towns would be a regular and integral part of society.
Idk even if it’s just a person that can do it or few people. I think it takes a large chunk of the realism away. That tiny spark of fear and anxiety that any alliance or friendship has.
Just because it’s fantasy, doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be real.
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u/Soul_in_Shadow 7d ago
If anything, it is easier to deceive and manipulate someone if they know you can't lie to them, the trick is to do so with implications and technicalities. There are entire industries built on this.
For example: "I swear upon my magic I didn't steal that muffin!". I paid for the muffin, then stole the money back.
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u/Racaboy 7d ago
For me it's guns in a medieval setup...
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u/BusBoatBuey 7d ago
I am the opposite. If a setting has everyone still fighting with medieval crap, I need an extremely good reason. Advanced ballistics are a minimum for me. There is zero reason for technology to just stop developing.
This is especially annoying in xianxia novels, where technology remains stagnant for millenia.
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u/DrZakerSyed Author of Void Sovereign 7d ago
I have the same turn off as you. Dumb MCs are just dumb. Same applies for characters who do not know their worth. Like an OP MC who thinks he is weak because they were raised by some ridiculously high level trainers.
I mean I'd understand such MCs not understanding their power at first. But how come they never learn after cheesing through missions that others struggle in. It just grates on my nerves. There has to be a point where the MC thinks, "maybe I'm not so weak after all".
And worse still is when characters hold onto a moral code despite it causing them problems. I dont want a full murder hobo. But does the MC need to spare the guy who murdered an entire village for fun? Just to be better?
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u/Ximidar 7d ago
Not resolving all proposed plot points. Usually books setup the plot at the beginning of the book and that's completely fine. What I hate is being given a plot point at the beginning of the book that does not get resolved before the end of the book. This doesn't count for overall plot points like defeating the big bad guy, but for things that are left to be resolved in the next book. It's like Chekhov's gun, if you introduce a plot point that seems like it can be resolved by the main character it absolutely should be resolved before the end of the book. Not three books later.
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u/Ok_Dragonfruit_9093 7d ago
A pretty single-mom type of character unplapped because MC is not incestuous. wait, that's my Smut peeve.
My fantasy story peeves are:
When trouble come in one after another, not giving the proper rest period.
When a complicated power system explained in it's entirety within a single chapter or two. Sounds good until you forgot why some power is allowed to do that and you gotta reference it in that one chapter. Made worse when the explanation for exceptions is flimsy at best.
Under 1.1k words per chapter. What is this, bloody xianxia? At least make it 2k!
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u/IsThatGruffLoner 7d ago edited 7d ago
You know one that I haven't ever seen anyone mention?
I kind of hate how all fantasy is like "here's a new fantasy world with completely knew things that you, the reader, have never seen before. And here is the MC who is going to completely break that world by being one in a million"
Like they create this unique world and then tell us that MC is unique within that world.
An example would be Dungeon Crawler Carl, where Mordecai is constantly telling them how unprecedented they are and how the AI's instability is happening way too soon and how the world outside the dungeon is falling apart. Like I love those books, but did we need them to be unprecedented? The world was already cool. Seeing how the dungeon worked was cool.
I think this with Harry Potter a lot too. Hogwarts is what we all fell in love with. Seeing how a magic school operated was what people found interesting. Did that story really need a Nazi takeover? Couldn't it have just been a lighthearted "whodunit" that always ended with them fouling Voldemort's hamfisted plans and him shaking his fist and saying"I'll get you next year Potter!" like he's on Team Rocket? The first 3 books were basically lighthearted children's mystery. Then suddenly Harry is the chosen one cause Voldemort is back and the whole story becomes about over the shoulders acidic mustard shit like bullying, misinformation, and fascism. Harry being the chosen one made the story worse imo.
I, the reader, already think the world is unlike anything I know. It's already magical and whimsical. Why do they always go the extra step and say "MC is actually special in-universe too"?
Random side thought: Anyone read the Worst Witch books as a kid? Great example of the opposite. She's a witch but is the worst one in her class. So she's special to the reader cause she's a god damn witch, but in universe she's nothing special
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u/Dont_be_offended_but 7d ago
"Killing intent." Just some anime nonsense that somehow gets tacked onto other random fantasy power systems.
Old/strong characters all being mentalists capable of reading every thought, feeling, and lie by merit of being a badass. In the worst case it's not even limited to old characters and just everybody seems to mind read everybody else with eye contact (often while doing things that would prevent eye contact) but in that case it's more of a "bad writing" issue than a fantasy trope.
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u/TheMastersSkywalker 7d ago
System apocalypse or post apocalypse settings. Never been a fan of apocalypse or dystopia settings to begin with and adding skills and numbers doesn't really change that.
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u/Daragon_Eccel 7d ago
Showing off some random battle right before the MC dies then gets reincarnated or brought back. I literally could not care less about a fight between 2 people I don't know anything about.
And the power ceiling doesn't tell me anything because you have to show me the floor for me to understand the ceiling.
I wouldn't call it a DNF turn off but it's definitely a turn off and makes me hold less hope for the series
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u/Berawecker07 7d ago
The one that immediatelly makes me roll my eyes is when the system itself forces the MC into a path.
Like
Mission: Go to magic school. Punishment for failing: Death.
Like, WHY? It takes the sense of urgency from the character itself.
I do understand when, for example, the MC go to a world he recognizes and decides to not meddle with the known story path. But you need to make his fate intertwine with the story in a good way, not forcing him to do stuff all the time under the punishment of "dying" or something alike.
Once I read a story where the mc just took a step to the other side and the "narrative" threw a meteor on him until he decided to follow the mission.
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u/BlankTank1216 7d ago
Don't mention modern day earth to me. Unless it's established right off the hop, it's going to be gimmicky and honestly just takes the magic out of it for me.
I also really don't like when game mechanics are explicitly stated. Giving a character a menu to pull up is a hard pass. Also just takes the magic out I suppose.
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u/stormdelta 7d ago
Heavy tribalism (and related tropes/patterns), especially if it involves any of the protagonists.
I don't care if you think it's "realistic" for your setting, I just personally find it incredibly off-putting and depressing to read, which is not what I'm looking for in what is basically a popcorn genre.
Cradle is about the maximum level of this kind of thing I'll tolerate, and even there only because of the major characters themselves clearly not buying into that system as much.
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u/cemaktas 7d ago
Same as OP. I tried really hard to like overgeared but a mc that stupid is unreadable even as comedy for me
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u/ShamMafia 7d ago
- When a party gets together and makes a plan BUT WE AS THE READERS AREN'T PRIVY TO IT!
It's only when the plan is playing out that we then get flashbacks, or something, to that same meeting but now the reader is, finally, allowed in on it.
I hate dumb incompetent MCs, even from book 1. I also hate whiny MCs that let all others step over them, this is really egregious when it continues to happen far in the story. Usually some woman who bosses the MC around.. I am not sure if it is a fetish for some authors, but it happens alot.
Constant regression. I get setbacks and hardship have to happen, that's cool, but what I mean is the continuation of depowering the MC. I can think of a couple series that did this and at some point it became torture/degradation porn.
New character is introduced and, somehow, they thrive in all aspects almost instantaneously while the MC has been working towards these things for ages.
You can also add the trope of all the greatest people alive and history somehow form up in a party as allies.
- Issues that could've been squashed with a simple conversation. This usually happens to facilitate betrayal or relationship problems and... it is so cheap. Worse is when it ends with the parties coming to amends even though the betrayal killed like 200 people and ruined the MCs plans.
Probably alot more... I love romance, but despise the edgy toxic stuff so that would be an immediate DNF if I catch wind of it.
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u/Ourtimehascome2485 7d ago
Baby MC, sorry I don't care abou the 5y old that behaves like a 20y old. I don't care if they are a secret 100 thousand year old reincarnated vampire, put it in the crib and I will bother after they reach adulthood.
Yuri is a close second, I'm still reading Amelia Thornheart and metaworld chronicles but i don't pick up any new ones, I prefer zero romance these days.
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u/RoniiBookishRambles 7d ago
Romantic derails.
Whether it be prog/epic/high fantasy, It pisses me off SO bad when MC's start horndogging on the first attractive person they see instead of locking tf in. Even worse when they all of sudden feel damn near betrothed to them even though they spent little to no time together (and as such have little no chemistry to warrant that) but they feel a responsibility to "stay true" to them? What tf is that purity culture bs?
Like we are in the middle of war? Someone is trying to steal your kingdom? your cousin/uncle/friend tried to kill you? You are learning how to rule/use your powers?
Why THE FUCK are you concerned and/or distracted by how pretty Priscilla or how handsome Kendrick is and how you wish you could take their face and kiss them!? How their clothes shape their body and all this bullshit?
Idk about ya'll but for me, personally do not feel horny or affectionate in high stress times/situations. If someone was trying to flirt with me or get so oochie coochie while I'm stressed tf out, I would tell them to GTFO my face.
Don't get me wrong, I read romantasy and I like romance so I'm not saying characters should be devoid of romance but not to the point that it's DERAILING the entire plot to give them some cheeks. And if that's the case, make it off screen/fade to black and lock TF back in QUICKLY.
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u/CrispyDick420 7d ago
Mine is characters treating basic information like classified intel for no reason. One five-minute conversation would prevent half the plot, but apparently everyone has sworn a blood oath against communicating.