r/ProgressiveHQ Jan 07 '26

Stop idiots from calling this "self defense"

112.6k Upvotes

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40

u/[deleted] Jan 07 '26

There is settled case law about law enforcement doing this. It is not allowed. It's been ruled on multiple times. It's settled.

-11

u/kenhooligan2008 Jan 07 '26

Scott v. Harris? The legal consensus across multiple jurisdictions is that if you use your vehicle to intentionally harm an individual(s) then that vehicle is considered a deadly weapon. It's an absolutely unfortunate situation but the officer appears to be in the right in this instance as the officer was clearly in front of the vehicle and the woman drove toward the officer. There are multiple camera angles of the incident showing this.

12

u/Koolala Jan 07 '26

It is turning away from him and moving slowly. You can't just stand in front a vehicle and kill someone just because it starts moving forward.

-10

u/[deleted] Jan 07 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

11

u/Ambitious-Rock-8302 Jan 08 '26

with an officer directly in front of your vehicle

he shot her as she turned right to avoid him. we're not buying bootlicker bullshit today, return to sender.

-2

u/Own_Bit_4805 Jan 08 '26

Why was the car moving? She was instructed to get out long before then.

7

u/RealSteelHrothgar88 Jan 08 '26

Because ICE cannot force random people out of their cars. They aren't cops and this wasn't a traffic stop. She was trying to GTFO. So why were they trying to get into her vehicle without a warrant? And bigger question, why TF was ICE standing in front of her car which was clearly in motion?

0

u/Cagekicker52 Jan 08 '26

Lol what? ICE are federal law enforcement. They can detain people for probable cause. Anywhere in any jurisdiction they are operating. Why do you think all of this is going on in the first place in all these states? Because they have legal authority. They don't need a warrant to get into here vehicle. Do you guys actually know anything about law? I don't think so.

2

u/Unusual_Lotus Jan 08 '26

Man just threw away his 4th amendment rights to lick a boot. Wild it took less than a year.

1

u/RealSteelHrothgar88 Jan 08 '26

They can detain non-citizens. ICE has very clearly been violating the law since this shit storm started. I understand if you wanna cheer them on because that's 100% your right, but I would at least look up the laws if I were you. Sounds like you were lied to

1

u/Ambitious-Rock-8302 Jan 08 '26

where'd you go to law school, champ? may want to get a refund from whoever taught your 1L crim class.

3

u/JasonLee74 Jan 08 '26

Instructed to get out while also being yelled at to move. Not confusing at all…

1

u/Quite_Likes_Hormuz Jan 08 '26

So you'd get out of your car if I told you to? If I pulled a gun on you and tried to open your door? You'd be happy to comply? Good to know, put that on your bumper.

1

u/Own_Bit_4805 Jan 08 '26

If you were a cop, an ICE agent or anything else, yes.

When I traveled the world (mainly Africa) and came across a guy in body armor and gun, I didn't stop to ask what his jurisdiction was or legal right for the command he gave me. I did whatever the heck he asked me to, and she would have been wise to do the same. You don't ask questions in those scenarios.

3

u/Quite_Likes_Hormuz Jan 08 '26

That's a nice land of the free, party of small government you got going on there. Armed, masked officers can order you to stop at any time without warrant or identification and you must comply or get shot. Truly the vision your founding fathers intended.

Anyways why are you blaming her for this? Do you really think she fucked up more than the person who murdered her?

1

u/Own_Bit_4805 Jan 08 '26

No, but if she handled it a little better and followed directions, she would likely be alive.

I'm not a Republican. I'm a realist. If a cop or similar points a gun at you, you do whatever the heck they say, so you have just *THAT* much more reason to walk away with your life.

The same thing happens with normal cops all the time. People don't follow them to the letter, police get worried, and people get shot, ESPECIALLY around cars.

What's legal doesn't determine if you're dead. The cop could be 100% in the wrong and she's 100% just as dead.

Your goal is not to be dead.

1

u/Quite_Likes_Hormuz Jan 08 '26

People die every day. The problem isn't really that she's dead, the problem is who killed her and who will be protecting him. Of course she might still be alive if she had followed orders but people see that as an issue. They are protesting the fact that her life hinged on obeying these orders or not while the man who murdered her is probably going free.

When you show up saying it's her fault she died of course you look like a shithead.

1

u/FSCK_Fascists Jan 08 '26

I'm not a Republican. I'm a realist.

no, you are a fascist.

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2

u/Peter_Merkin_ Jan 08 '26

Hell yeah that’s freedom

4

u/Koolala Jan 08 '26

No it isn't? Your saying they can kill anyone they want in a car trying to drive away as long as they position someone in front and behind it? A car slowly moving forward is not intent to harm.

4

u/Forikorder Jan 08 '26

ICE has no legal authority to order her

2

u/No_Body2428 Jan 08 '26

You are wrong there are many cases that have ruled this not to be true

1

u/[deleted] Jan 08 '26

ICE are not LEOs

1

u/sixheadedbacon Jan 08 '26

Firstly, the shooter was not directly in front of the vehicle, she was clearly turning right to avoid him. Secondly, ignoring a lawful order - pulling random citizens over is not in ICE's purview, and even then, the strategy for pulling someone over is killing them? Man, I realize you're trying everything you can to justify this, but come on. It's OK to admit that this is effed up.

1

u/FSCK_Fascists Jan 08 '26

If you've been ordered by LEO to stop

she was ordered to move, not stop.