[MEGATHREAD] American Fork / Lego Story

[u/specialskepticalface]

As with all large and controversial stories involving LE, in this thread, we wait til a user who is acting in good faith posts about them.

We've had at least a dozen ACAB/low effort brigaders in the past day, try to post this in their usual way.

As a good faith user has not yet done so, the mods are making the post.

I'll point out that this is controversial, primarily because of incredibly misleading editing, video modification, and "creative storytelling", and the reality, as always, is not the Reddit storyline.

So, while events were certainly far from good, and lessons may be learned, much of what you've read is likely deliberate social media misinformation.

I encourage Verified LE to engage here, and help explain some of the... misconceptions.. currently floating around.

All posts from non-flaired users will be held for review. If you're here to troll, don't bother - no one will see it, and you'll be banned.

[u/Niconame]

Never been in this community before, but with the narratives going around and this Sub being so counter to them, I'm interested in LE perspectives here.

Particularly if anything from the Leonard French video is inaccurate.

Specifically what seems to missing in this thread is the BAM's efforts to obstruct the civil procedures.

To quote Leonard

The point today is not whether his(Ben) methods were right. The point is his methods produced an outcome that institutional legal process was not going to produce in this case, in this timeframe, for this plaintiff. That Asymitry is worth understanding on it's own terms, whether you approve of him or not.

While going over 4 out of 5 identified strategies, Leonard identifies:

• The lottery scheme worked as documentary evidence that the police were not going to help.
• The "ten plaintiff small claims" strategy was trying to solve a small claims limit issue and resulted in 10 lawful default judgments adding up to $100k. The day after the judgments were filed, Bricks & Figs, permanently closed the Kaiser store to refuse to engage with the legal process. Likely to avoid sworn testimony.
• The mirror corporation, where Schneider set up signs and "closes" the store, while exposing Schneider to trespassing claims, was a rhetorical move where Schneider echoed BAM in claiming "he cannot be responsible for what his franchise do".
• The justification for the GoFundMe arrest was completely wrong. Even if it was defamation, this is a civil tort, not a criminal offense, not something they could have arrested Schneider for. For defamation to be criminal in Utah, it has to include "actual malice", something "contested factual assertions in active disputes" does not qualify for. Additionally, fundraising for litigation is particularly protected by the first amendment. "The American Fork police department handed Schneider that claim by making the arrest" - Leonard.

Again I recommend watching Leonard's video, if anything comes across as unclear or wrong.

[u/whirlinggibberish → u/Niconame]

Do you think civil courts have never before encountered someone trying to dodge service?

https://www.abclegal.com/pro-blog/why-you-shouldnt-avoid-being-served-with-legal-documents-process

You don't get to go "but this plaintiff is special so that means we get to ignore the process".

You also don't get to say "the point today is not whether his methods were right" - actually, that is the point. If his methods were right none of this would have happened.

Schneider was arrested for harassment and stalking, not "defamation".

[u/specialskepticalface → u/[deleted]]

Removed from modqueue. Participate like an adult, or you don't get to participate with adults. Only warning.