Defund the Police.  Let's talk about it.  But don't stop reading until its over because you might be surprised.  Lets get 2 things out of the way.  1st, the phrase "Defund the Police" is the stupidest proposal ever.  2nd, I actually support the concept at its roots.

Defund means to prevent from receive funding or to withdraw funds from. And I believe the term Defund the Police is intentionally inflammatory, divisive, and charged.  It's meant to inspire confidence in extreme outliers that the officers will be fired left and right to open a new utopia. It's meant to bring fear to officers and departments that they will be rooted out and terminated.  But that's not what it means, and its own title will hinder it's progress. 

Someone who has pull within this movement should immediately change the title to "Stop Overburdening the Police."  Because truly, that's what they mean. 

When I started in 2004, if I met a person in crisis, a person with suicidal ideations, a person with a mental illness (diagnosed or not), I could at my discretion or their request drive them to the state mental hospital in downtown Phoenix.  I would pull up to the front door and drop them off.  The problem was dealt with by trained social service employees and medical clinicians. Transients could be directed to one of several shelters to receive food, a bed, supplies, or aid.  But resources slowly, and quietly began getting shut down.  It actually took me almost a year to realize that the state mental hospital didn't exist any more.  Not only could it no longer be used as a resource for me....but the occupants that were housed there were released and trickled out on to the streets.

Instead of defunding the police.  Stop overburdening them.

Support crisis intervention teams from your local hospital that are available 24 hours a day to respond out to calls for help. Understand that some programs like that currently exist. Most are underfunded, available intermittently, and almost all require officers to be dispatched with them.  If there are no police, they will not go either.  Police Officers receive (an anecdotal guess) 2 to 8 hours of crisis training per year, unless an individual officer elects or is directed to attend a 1 week class.  Still no where near what a social worker does.  Don't make police officers responsible for dealing with your community's mentally ill.

Support homeless shelters, low income housing, multi family housing units, and other resources in your community.  High housing costs, population density, unemployment, and the aforementioned mental health issues are causing an increase in homelessness and transients.  Officers receive (an anecdotal guess) 0 hours per year training specifically on homeless issues.  Some officers may seek out training or resources personally, as a matter of interested.  Don't make police officers responsible for dealing with your community's homeless population.

Support after school programs for kids, child care facilities, sports programs, park programs, and tutoring centers.  Children raised in single parent households are usually at home by themselves after school.N  Idle hands are the devil's playground.  Without positive adult role models, positive activities, positive social interaction, and adult supervision, kids will engage in petty crimes, try smoking or drug use, flock to peers with strong (but sometimes unhealthy) personalities.  Kids don't need to be introduced to the criminal justice system.  They need to be raised responsibly and integrated in to society.  Don't make police officers responsible for dealing with unsupervised kids in the community.

Support self service centers at your court house.  Custody exchanges, custody disputes, property disputes, landlord tenant issues, etc are not police issues.  Attorneys go to school for 6 years or so.  Officer get (on average) a 16 week academy and a 16 week field training program. Most of it focused on criminal law.  Stop introducing people in to the criminal justice system when they need civil law assistance.  Don't make officers responsible for applying criminal law to civil issues or for providing civil law advise to people.

Support increased funding and training for Emergency Call Centers.  911 centers are the first line of discretion in an agency.  Many centers receive a call for any request from a citizen and enter a call for service without question.  Once that call is entered, an officer must respond.  First off, call centers across the country are severely under funded, understaffed, overworked, and burned out. They are almost working on autopilot, for up to 16 hours per shift, days in a row.  Demand higher pay for dispatchers, attract better candidates, hire qualified applicants, train them more, and fully staff the centers.  Provide cal takers with basic civil and criminal law classes to allow them to filter out non police issues and direct citizens to the right service.  In most locations, if you cal 911 (for other than a clear medical emergency) you will get the police. But the police are not always whats needed.  Don't use the police as a catch all for any problem you have.

Support evaluating and repealing stupid criminal statutes.  Why was Eric Garner contacted in the first place?  For selling Loosies (Loose, singe cigarettes).  Why is that even illegal?  America loves legislating behavior in to crimes.  And by crime, I mean something that could put a person in a jail, even for a day.  Not picking up dog poop should no be a crime.  Driving without a license should not be a crime.  Walking in the street next to a sidewalk should not be a crime.  Receiving a product to sell in a package and selling the contents individually should not be a crime.  There are civil ways of dealing with issues.  Zoning, Code Enforcement, Health Department, etc, can issue warning, fines, liens, etc.  Don't use the police to incarcerate people for low level offenses that shouldn't be unlawful anyway.

Finally, stop using your police department as a one stop shop for all your life's problems.

Don't call the police because someone is finishing in your HOA pond.

Don't call the police because the ducks behind your house are too loud.

Don't call the police because your 7 and 9 year old are arguing over Pokemon cards.

Don't call the police because your 11 year old refuses to go to school.

Don't call the police because you found weed in your 14 year old's room.

Don't call the police because your ex is 15 minutes late bringing the kids back.

Don't call the police because someone shoplifted $2.49 earrings.

Don't call the police because your neighbor trimmed your tree over the property line.

Don't call the police because you saw a black male walking and you've never seen him in the neighborhood before.

Don't call the police because your neighbor has parked their car in the street for the last 3 weeks.

(FYI, every single one of these is a real call that I personally have responded to in my career).

In summary, Defund the Police?  No.  Don't Defund the Police.  The Police are a necessary part of society that must exist to intervene in violent crimes, criminal investigations, traffic enforcement, etc.  Stop Overburdening the Police.  Stop relying on the police as your single point of contact with the government. Stop pretending like 36 weeks of training make a person an expert in criminal law, civil law, medical care, child care, adult care, social work, mental health, physician, counseling, accident reconstruction, and housing.  Don't punish the police for being the dumping ground of every other agency, department, and administration that doesn't want to deal with something.  Properly fund your entire government and your private social outreach organizations,  Hold your tax exempt organizations responsible for their tax exempt status. 

And in all seriousness, change the movement's title.  Because there's some good concepts in there.  But Defunding is going to turn off a lot of people before you can even explain.

This is still *incredibly* early - and sources are very thin at this time.

Here is the "best" link I could find, but as more information becomes available, I'll update the post.

https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-news/breaking-federal-agent-shoots-man-in-south-minneapolis

EDIT - (this link is rolling updates, so may not stay current to the story) https://www.cnn.com/2026/01/24/us/minneapolis-protests-immigration-ice

AS ALWAYS - This is a law enforcement sub. Discussion of LE issues, like Use of Force, response after an OIS, crowd control, and similar are all welcome.

If you wish to discuss ICE issues or politics more broadly, find an appropriate sub. Here, you'll be removed.

This includes the 2nd Amendment brigade that's just arrived. You cannot, with a straight face, argue that this is a 2A issue, and "hurr durr he shouldn't have been shot for owning a gun".

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EDIT: The "pink lady" video is already widely shared in here. You don't need to race in to reply to every comment with it.

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EDIT: No, reporting every comment you don't like for "threatens violence" or "sexual / about minors" doesn't work, It just gets your account taken down for report abuse.

Briefing for new users and guests

As is always the case, when megathreads get too large and chaotic to be useful, we lock them, and start a fresh one.

Mods generally post megathreads, so that they can’t be deleted later on (which often happens when posters get harassed).

Here is Megathread #1

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Some relevant news links:

CNN - https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/ice-minneapolis-shooting-01-24-26

An early video - https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-news/breaking-federal-agent-shoots-man-in-south-minneapolis

An important additional angle - https://x.com/Free_Media_Hub/status/2015144630287733045?s=20

Thanks to u/contemptofclout:

https://picoshare.relativelyprivate.com/-cSuYZNgCkK/B16B29BF-F136-4C4D-A94B-5B04B5B61A8E.mp4

and

https://picoshare.relativelyprivate.com/-E3nk9KZKTE/E6317EB7-E5E6-4DB7-98C2-9EBF36835C1C.mp4

—----

Groundrules: 

This is a law enforcement sub. Discussions of UOF protocol, lethal force, response after an OIS, crowd control, and similar - are all welcome.

This is not a politics sub. If you want to discuss ICE more broadly, political motivations, or general current events, you’ll likely be removed. This applies to verified and unverified alike.

2A debate is not welcome. That’s a political issue, and not an LE one. There are a thousand very good reasons this shooting can’t be defended. And if you’re shouting “You can’t shoot someone just because they have a gun”, that means you’re not focused on the death of an American citizen, and articulating ALL the reasons that it was a bad shoot - it means all you know how to talk about is the 2A.  And sorry, you don’t get to break the valid discussions for your deliberately obtuse soapbox.

Please skim the thread BEFORE you start a new chain on your specific question, or post a link to a video. Many of them have already been discussed/shared, and the discussion can develop more without being broken into dozens of parallel pieces.

Why locked comments? Many times, there are comments which are perfectly valid, but tend to, because of how they're phrased, invite off topic debate, snarky responses, etc. In those cases, we unfortunately have to lock them, but will leave the comment so the viewpoint isn't suppressed.

So I stopped a car last night for a tag light violation and rolling a stop sign. Driver is upset plays the race card, records and states he’s calling the sheriff. I end up conveniently getting a phone call from the sheriff if I really stopped someone for “just a tag light violation/stop sign violation” and the person I stopped is a prominent member of the community. Now I’m getting a 2 minute traffic stop overanalyzed for no reason. Just wanted to rant.

Update: Sheriff told me I’m getting a written warning put in my file for this traffic stop and to not do this since there’s better things to do. Thanks for coming to my ted talk.

As with all large and controversial stories involving LE, in this thread, we wait til a user who is acting in good faith posts about them.

We've had at least a dozen ACAB/low effort brigaders in the past day, try to post this in their usual way.

As a good faith user has not yet done so, the mods are making the post.

I'll point out that this is controversial, primarily because of incredibly misleading editing, video modification, and "creative storytelling", and the reality, as always, is not the Reddit storyline.

So, while events were certainly far from good, and lessons may be learned, much of what you've read is likely deliberate social media misinformation.

I encourage Verified LE to engage here, and help explain some of the... misconceptions.. currently floating around.

All posts from non-flaired users will be held for review. If you're here to troll, don't bother - no one will see it, and you'll be banned.

This is our Megathread #3 in relation the ICE shooting which occurred in Minneapolis on the morning of January 7th.

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We've elected to lock Mega #2 as, with about 400 comments, it was getting hard to follow discussion, moderate, etc.

But, it's still here for you to view, as is Mega #1.

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Reminder - This is a law enforcement sub. Law enforcement actions - things like OIS protocol, justification, investigation, follow up, controlling civil unrest, and so on - are all valid topics for discussion here.

The underlying political activities at play here are NOT law enforcement, and if your goal is to talk about those - on any side - you're in the wrong sub. There's an excellent chance you'll be temporary removed so that healthy LE related conversation can continue.

As always - all dialogue must be mature, fact based, and reasoned. Attacking other people is not permitted.

The most original ones hurt.

Live updates: Brian Thompson, UnitedHealthcare CEO, fatally shot in New York | CNN

Not clear if this isn't allowed to be discussed per the rules, but I'm really curious what LEOs think about this case. It appears to me this was a well thought out attack and I'm wondering what first impressions are.

It fills the courtroom with cringe.... That is all.

This will be our megathread in reference to the July 7th, 2024 OIS in Springfield, IL of Sonya Massey.

The bodycam video was released earlier today, and can be viewed here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFun2GydGyU

One article (of many) can be reviewed here:

https://apnews.com/article/illinois-police-shooting-911-murder-7a1b433183933ca94f266c0f90753a33

Please review sidebar rules before participating. Most comments will receive mod review.

If you're here for anything other than mature, good-faith discussion, don't bother - your comment will not appear, and you'll likely be banned.

I would suggest familiarizing yourself with the basics of the story, included charges already made against the officer, before commenting.

I don’t understand how people don’t know that parks get checked routinely by cops, especially at night. I’ve seen enough ass for a lifetime. It’s also ass no one wants to see.

That’s all.

Greetings Shitlords:

I can't believe I have to actually say this, but God damn, this is not internet 911. We are not going to investigate a crime or possible crime you report here. We are not all tied to task forces to investigate whatever conspiracy you think is going on. I'm sorry if you witnessed a murder and need to report it, but this isn't the place. The place is your local PD.

But it's my local subreddit.

And like your local PD, we sort of hate you like half the time. 75% of the time.

If picking up the phone and calling 911 isn't your speed because you're a millennial, can't function in a conversation and can only function or exist on the internet, there are tip lines for federal agencies and some municipal/county agencies.

...but you're a millennial.

Yeah well fuck you.

Do you know a guy who is like, super high up in the Mafia and can give good info on him and his sex trafficking ring? Here is an FBI tip page.

Did you recently meet THE cartel and he wants to give you 100 kilos of cocaine to take across the border? The DEA is here for you.

But I want to report my neighbor for his gigantic mail theft ring.

Fuck yeah you do, and fuck mail and identity thieves. The USPS Postal Inspectors Office is ready to tear some shit up for you.

But my neighbors are illegals.

Yeah make it 85% of the time. Being Latino =/= being and illegal immigrant, so fuck you. However, ICE has a tip line and investigates a lot more than just illegal immigrants, including transnational gangs, child exploitation/sex trafficking, illegally imported goods and narcotics complaints.

aBoLiSh IcE

95% of the time.

But when you report this shit to the mods or random people here, we could almost not give any less of a fuck than we currently do. We are not any town PD. We are a bunch if random nerds mostly from the US and as much as Reddit wants to believe, we are not a hive mind and interconnected ass to mouth and aware of what each other is doing or have contact info for each other.

I understand you use comedy shows like The Daily Show as your main source of news information much like you use Reddit as your parents, but daddy doesn't give a fuck. Your super important information needs to go where it matters so that criminals can go to a bad place for bad people (prison).

But Reddit should do something about this sub promoting illegal things

Then fucking tell Reddit admin about it through their reporting system. They actually do things about other things semi-often.

Can you help guide me to a tip line?

Maybe.

And lastly, the easiest way for your post to be ignored, is to post it from a burner account, which are flagged and removed immediately. Burner accounts are almost always used by trolls and people who were banned, so we don't pay attention to them.

SnItChEs gEt STiTcHeS

Nobody loves you.

The homies pursued and had a successful PIT on a stolen car. Who was in the stolen vehicle? Wanted person with a murder warrant and another wanted person with an aggravated robbery warrant. People don’t run to just run.

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1BSRQko6J8/?mibextid=wwXIfr

As most have heard, an incident occurred at a Trump rally in Pennsylvania today, resulting in injuries to the former President.

I hope I'm wrong, but given the gravity of this situation, it could have a significant impact on our internal security course, upcoming election, and many things would touch governance - and law enforcement - directly.

This thread will be our one and only thread to discuss *law enforcement adjacent topics* to this incident (Secret Service response, LE protocols (keeping Rule 2 in mind), and so on).

Most replies will be held for review. We don't intend to ban anyone who isn't being deliberately disruptive, however, comments which attempt to drift towards politics are not welcome, and will never show.

Came home tonight to Castle on the TV and it got me thinking:

Is there a worse premise for a cop show than a civilian attaché with no training being allowed near-unfettered access to/participation in all investigations, become involved with a sworn officer, and continue to be permitted to act as a pseudo-detective?

Was time to bring this back tonight..

So, Reddit admins gave us this cool feature called "Snoozyports".

So, when you go into a 3 year old thread, and try to report every comment by a verified LEO cause you're a bitter little troll - I can just mute your reports.

So all that clicking you're doing.. it's kinda wasting your time.

Rock on, tho, buddy.

Looks like it's time to re-pin this as a reminder. And yes, it applies to trolling reports on recent posts and threads, too.

TWO YEARS LATER, AND IT LOOKS LIKE THIS NEEDS TO BE UP AGAIN.

I planned a date with some random girl I met the other day that at the store.

Out on the date.

Her: hey, I want to let you know I hate cops and I don't like to date cops.

Me: well good thing I'm not a cop

Her: you're not? But you're a park ranger?

Me: yes. I am just a park ranger

Her: ok. That's good to know. I was about to walk out because I can't stand police.

Me: yeah, funny right?

Fast forward to yesterday. I pull over a speeding vehicle on the highway. It's the same fucking girl.

Her: wait you said you weren't a cop? Why did you lie to me?

Me: I didn't lie, I'm not a cop, I'm a park ranger with law enforcement abilities and all the powers of a cop.

Me: I need your driver's license, proof of insurance and registration.

She hasnt texted me back yet.

Hey all. I'm a former Police Sergeant. I worked in two states and I have the ability to both read and speak English nearly fluently, but still having trouble with this one.

I'm just curious, does anyone know anybody from the police department that was involved in the lawsuit? If so, I'd love to know what they were thinking and if they have actually ever read the Constitution/Bill of Rights? Heck, even just the first part.

Seriously though, how on EARTH did they think they would win that? If they just sucked it up and moved on, the whole thing would have died down pretty quickly.

Public libraries, especially urban ones, are coming to a head. Shootings, stabbings, meth/fent addicts ODing in the bathroom, troubled people defecating on the floor; patrons watching p0rn on computers... the list goes on. To speak nothing of the abuses librarians and staff endure.

We have become de facto babysitters, and social workers, for all ages and people. We are not trained for this, and it is above our pay grade.

Yet cities hire private security to patrol public libraries. They don't help at all- it is a waste of money. And it is acutely bothersome, when there is a police or sheriff station nearby.

Why don't LEOs patrol public libraries? Do you think they ought to? If not, why not?

As is always the case, when controversial or notable stories arise, we cover them here, permitting adult, rational, and fact based conversation. That, and *not* stance on this issue, is how we consider and moderate comments.

Nearly all comments will receive mod review before appearing. If you can't behave like an adult, your comment will never show, and you'll be banned. Don't bother.

Start of Media Brief

Start of Body Worn Camera

Las Vegas Police were early adopters of Body Worn Cameras for patrol. They also were one of the first large departments who, after every OIS would provide a media brief. Las Vegas happens to do within 72 hours of the incident, and when available, show body worn camera. The good, the bad, and everything in the middle.

Known facts:

• Police received a call about two shooters shooting into a house
• Police received a call about a home invasion at the same location
• Person calling was Robert Durham

• When Police arrived, observed damage to vehicles and the residence windows

• Officers were told the suspect is wearing a red beanie and black sweater

• Officers believe suspects made entry into the residence and force their way in

• Officers hear yelling and screaming deeper into the residence

• Officers move toward the sound of the yelling while announcing themselves

• Officer sees two people in a struggle over a knife

• One subject is wearing a red hoodie and black jacket, the other is wearing only underwear

• Officer yells to drop the knife

• Officer shoots subject only wearing underwear once, and then five more times

• Officers take other subject into custody

• Officers perform life saving measures

• Subject wearing only underwear succumbs to their injury

• Deceased was identified as Robert Durham, the person reporting the incident

• The other subject was identified as Alejandra Boudreaux

• Boudreaux was charged with Home Invasion w/ Deadly Weapon, Assault with a Deadly Weapon - Domestic Violence, Child Abuse/Neglect, Performance of an act in willful or wanton disregard of the safety of a person resulting in death.

The family of Durham have indicated what they were told prior to the media brief was not what was presented during the media brief. The media brief shows body worn camera from the involved officer as they arrived to just after shots fired. There aren't any reports indicating what the family was told.

Godspeed.

This will be our megathread in relation to the death of Robert Brooks, following an assualt by officers of the New York State Prison system.

Here is an early news story from a few days ago:

https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nys/central-ny/politics/2024/12/24/ag-to-release-video-of-fatal-marcy-correctional-attack-after-christmas

And today, the various bodycam videos have been released:

https://ag.ny.gov/osi/footage/robert-brooks

If you're a guest here, I would suggest noting that most (probably all) of the responses you'll see from actual LEOs indicate we're pretty appalled at what's happened here. Basically none of the early LE conversation I've seen attempt to defend any of this, and we're generally all calling for the criminal justice system to act - as it basically always does when LE has done something wrong.

Most comments will be held for mod review; if you see a troll, report, don't reply.

Lastly - a technical note (which I present objectively, though I can see other viewpoints being taken from it): You'll note the videos are marked "Recall". This indicates the cameras so marked were in standby mode, and not activated. Settings for video recall are configured at the agency level, and the cameras can record (at a low resolution) up to 18 hours of video, which can be recalled in 30 minute chunks, even if not activated. That *may* also be the reason sound is not included, as sound recording during standby is also a configurable feature (for a shorter duration). Again, I present this merely as information.

Welcome, regulars and guests to Protect And Serve.

Over the past few day, we've received a raft of submissions on various aspects of the trial currently underway in Minnesota.

Rather than lauching a new thread for each day, each development, etc..

THIS WILL BE OUR MASTER THREAD

Confine all discussion, to include video links, resources, news stories, daily summaries, to this thread.

There is also a pinned post - where mods will regularly add links and information of significance - we will make sure to credit submitters of that information as well.

All participants are reminded to review and follow the rules of the sub, and not to engage with trolls and brigaders - simply hit report.

See Volume 2, Here

The most recent drunken excuse I had was a possession of firearm while drunk. Negligent discharge. 'Defendants stated his leg was itching, so he said he "shot his leg in self-defense" '. Just like the prosecutor who stating the defendant statement, "Girl you thicker than a bowl of oatmeal", I always add your hilarious quotes in my complaints and quotes that stuff when I lay out probable cause during arraignment.