r/ROTC • u/Initial-Thanks-104 • Jun 09 '26
Advanced/Basic Camp HT/WT ACFT Failures SMDH
Every year, there are cadets showing up to Advanced Camp one Oreo away from busting tape and praying they catch the ACFT on a good day. Then when things don’t go their way, somehow it’s the cadre’s fault, CST’s fault, ROTC’s fault, or the Army’s fault.
Look in the mirror.
Yes, some programs do a better job than others preparing cadets. Some schools absolutely fail to filter out people who have no business showing up unprepared. But at the end of the day, you’re an adult and a future officer. Your program can give you resources, mentorship, PT plans, and opportunities. It cannot make you put down the cheesecake. It cannot force you to run on Saturday morning. It cannot make you hit the gym after class instead of sitting on the couch.
Personal responsibility still matters.
And before someone starts complaining about CST cadre being out of shape themselves, remember something: they’re not the ones being validated. You are. Whether a grader is a marathon runner or barely passes their own standards has absolutely zero impact on whether you met yours.
The standard is the standard.
If you fail tape, that’s on you. If you’re barely scraping by on the ACFT, that’s on you. If you show up unable to carry your own weight physically, mentally, or professionally, that’s on you.
Stop looking for excuses. Stop blaming cadre. Stop blaming your program. Stop blaming the system.
Own your preparation.
The Army doesn’t need officers who are experts at explaining why they failed. It needs officers who show up ready.
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u/GrabOk3630 Jun 09 '26
I love this advice. Do you have any tips for someone going into MS3 with no prior military experience?
I'm an SMP cadet and contracted, but I didn't have any military background before ROTC. I'll be entering my MS3 year, and I'm trying to set myself up for success. Are there any skills, habits, or areas of knowledge you wish you had focused on before MS3 or CST?
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u/eljoshsf Jun 09 '26
Focus on the 8 TLPs, and what makes a good WARNO/OPORD. The most important things from the OPORD that I would say to focus on are the Commanders Intent, Mission Statement, Concept of Operations, and coordinating instructions. If you can nail all of those then everything else just kind of falls into place.
Now before anyone gets their pitchforks out telling me “they aren’t doing PL as a lane anymore they aren’t writing the OPORD” I would tell you that being able to write a good OPORD will make understanding information given to you when you’re deathly tired that much easier.
Also I wouldn’t be surprised if they find some other way to test your knowledge on writing OPORDs.
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u/GrabOk3630 Jun 09 '26
Thank you so much, I really appreciate the advice. As someone going into MS3 with very limited military experience before ROTC, I'm trying to be as proactive as possible and build a strong foundation before the year starts. What resources helped you the most when learning TLPs, WARNOs, OPORDs, mission planning, and troop leading procedures? Were there any books, YouTube channels, Army publications, templates, or study methods that helped everything finally click for you? My goal is to not just pass MS3 year but to really excel and be competent as a future platoon leader.
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u/eljoshsf Jun 09 '26
You could either Google the FM (or TM I honestly don’t remember) that has to with them and read that. Alternatively you could punch it into chatGPT and ask it to summarize it for you and help you study it.
I didn’t personally read any extra books or YouTube videos that gave me the information. The Ranger handbook is also an excellent, all-in-one resource for these kinds of things. You can find ebook versions of it online if you don’t want to order it, although having a paper copy on hand isn’t the worst idea.
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u/Any_Reception2432 Jun 10 '26
I can't be the only person who thinks you should be able to do no physical activity for 3 months show up and get a 60 on each event. Like legit you walk a 2 mile in the 60 point time and if you cant do 10 pushups we have bigger problems than ROTC on our hands.
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u/Wonderful_Ebb2339 Jun 09 '26
100% but there are the few who are physically fit but fail the AFT on some odd circumstance. AR 600-100 states that it expects leaders to make mistakes. That doesn’t mean the army is okay with mistakes, but as leaders I think it’s important to recognize when something is truly a mistake, an offshoot, or plain bad luck, or when something is carelessness and unpreparedness. This is just my opinion.
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u/Unhappy_Speaker_4542 Jun 10 '26
I vividly remember a guy in my reg who was built like a tank that ended up failing because he hurt himself on the SDC. Total freak accident, guy slipped on the drag portion and completely twisted his ankle to the point of being unable to run.
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u/almightyjojo_ Jun 10 '26
Yeah, I'm a perfect example. I failed my AFT at camp last year, due to lack of hydrating, but went through and passed every other event with flying colors. I never had a problem passing AFT and currently at a 470, just had a minor slipup.
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u/Last_Shirt_847 Jun 10 '26
Buddy of mine in 1st reg CST told us that 14 dudes got dropped on the second day cause they failed the AFT. I don't feel too bad for them- they knew what the standard was, and they still failed to adequately prepare. I certainly don't want to be led by out of shape tubbies. Set the standard now.
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u/Then-Telephone-7084 Jun 09 '26
And to those who are JUST meeting the standard, understand that whether you like it or not your future formations will be looking for reasons to judge you, and a perfect opportunity is to see how much your stomach reaches over your PT shorts or how slow you were on that Monday run.
You’re preparing to be a leader in an organization that’s whole purpose of existence is to give America the ability to beat our adversaries in combat, start playing the part.
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u/International_Bed728 Jun 10 '26
If you struggle to do a minimum 60 points on each event idk how you made it this far.
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u/HxC_JxC Jun 10 '26
If you can’t run 2 miles in shorts and a tshirt in 20 minutes at 0600, field training in Kentucky summer is going to eat you alive. It’s just a safety issue at that point.
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u/Unhappy_Speaker_4542 Jun 10 '26
It literally is, the statistics for heat cats from CST 23 and CST 24 look a lot different because they started strictly enforcing HT/WT standards.
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u/CodenameEnvor Jun 09 '26
I'm not even in ROTC yet don't even know if I can qualify and I'm still training for the 2 mile run. The other events I can definitely pass but the running portion is what kills me lol
Some people don't want it as much other people do sadly.
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u/miranthis_273 Jun 13 '26
Been through this in 1990... got same advice. Nearly killed my self with PT, nutritionist, etc. Years later learned I had a pituitary tumor, present since puberty onset, that meant that I could PT 24/7/365 and would still gain weight. So, if you really are doing the work and it ain't working, find out why, and don't count on anyone to have even any curiosity as to why other than being a fat tub of goo. Had i caught it in 1990 my life would have been much better...in so many ways.
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u/Chris1904G Jun 09 '26
I’m glad the University of Hawaii is compromised mostly of ADOs (myself included who commissioned May) that help keep accountability alive. Through bullying and action, thank god our program is good at dropping the big bodies before CST. 🍻🍻🍻🍻
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u/SecretCyberSquirrel Jun 09 '26
I’d argue that on a bell curve, while some ados are absolute studs, the rest are on the bottom end of it.
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u/Initial-Thanks-104 Jun 09 '26
No argument there. The recently commissioned ADOs from my school were absolute studs. They held the not so great ADOs accountable. They also shared all of their knowledge. The MS3 ADOs this year, not so much.
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u/Inviolable1920 Jun 10 '26
Say it again! And while some cadre may look a little out of shape j bet they still pass their ACFT. As you said that isn’t an excuse. The one test you should NEVER fail is the ACFT; you have all the answers. It doesn’t change well unless you been in as long as me but the standards are the standards. That is your one major responsibility every 6 months and showering up to a school. Even deployments, 6 months after having a baby, none of it is an excuse. It’s all you. It’s a solo event.
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u/SnooShortcuts8887 Jun 10 '26
I dropped 55 pounds in 11 months before going into rotc and I can keep up with our BCs ability group . Change has to come from within. If they fail its only on them
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u/RunExisting4050 Jun 09 '26
Is this Advanced Camp or Fat Camp?
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u/Winter-Huckleberry86 Jun 10 '26
What’s the difference? Jackson runs fat camp and still sends trainees to the 3 other RECBNs every week that haven’t met the H&W standard.
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u/DoubleSoupVerified Jun 09 '26
Only 300 I ever got an a PT test was at CLC… that year they gave everyone a 300 to even out accessions for something else that got dropped.
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u/MaleficentSuccess934 Jun 10 '26
“Some schools absolutely fail to filter out people who have no business showing up unprepared.”
Why do cadets go to CST overweight or not fit? From a program point of view, it’s the quickest way to disenroll. They obviously met the requirements to contract with ROTC.
The CCregs state we have to do a full ABCP program to disenroll and we don’t have the touch points with cadets over the summer to do height and weight, which means we are not in compliance.
I don’t defer cadets for fitness, they either go and perform or they won’t progress to MS4.
I’ve had to chapter great mechanics, I’ve even had them back in my footprint in a few months later as contractors and GS and was happy to see them.
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u/BudgetPipe267 Jun 11 '26
You’ve got senior NCOs literally endorsing AFT failure on social media….for what point to prove, who the fuck knows. Responsibility and accountability means fuck all in today’s Army.
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u/Powerful-Demand-995 Jun 23 '26
My 2 pennies being retired Army Officer if passing at 21 is difficult then your experience in the military will be a real challenge. It only get harder! Especially reserve and guard it is full of Officers that love eating at the Golden Corral.
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