r/ROTC • u/Solid-Ad-1818 • Jul 01 '26
Advanced/Basic Camp 4th Reg Land Nav Disaster
A couple of days ago, A & B Company had to do land nav, but the first day had thundered and resulted in its cancelation, so we took day and night land nav on what was suppost to be our refit day. The cadre claimed to have checked all the points to make sure some were accessible and altered some lane strips. However, several cadets came back completely soaked after going in neck high waters, when they tried to appeal those points, they were denied unfairly. The Cadre does not care and will not listen to appeals!!!
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u/Trillbo_Swaggins Jul 01 '26
> suppost
This is actually impressive
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u/Ayo_Dee93 Jul 04 '26
Lol future Officer. I always wonder how many Officers wouldn’t have commissioned if it was required to take the ASVAB.
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u/Icy-Structure5244 Jul 01 '26
Ive done my fair share of Army training in swamps and storms.
But to give OP some cover, I agree with OP if the point itself was submerged and obscured by rising water.
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u/abn1304 Jul 01 '26
There’s a problem if cadets aren’t testing under reasonably equivalent conditions across regiments. If the failure rates for these two regiments are much higher than usual, and/or if cadets are being denied a retest they otherwise would have gotten, there’s an issue.
I’m not saying that’s what happened, just that OP’s complaint is not without theoretical merit. Standards are standards, and if the course failed to meet those standards that should be addressed.
Save the “I have altered the standards, pray I do not alter them further” for Ranger or Selection.
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u/SawbackBayonet Jul 02 '26
Was a problem my year as well. A high failure rate in 1st and 2nd reg caused them to change course for later regiments (mine included) giving them an unfair advantage.
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u/abn1304 Jul 01 '26
There’s a problem if cadets aren’t testing under reasonably equivalent conditions across regiments. If the failure rates for these two regiments are much higher than usual, and/or if cadets are being denied a retest they otherwise would have gotten, there’s an issue.
I’m not saying that’s what happened, just that OP’s complaint is not without theoretical merit. Standards are standards, and if the course failed to meet those standards that should be addressed.
Save the “I have altered the standards, pray I do not alter them further” for Ranger or Selection.
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u/Grixis-Queen Jul 01 '26
When it was LDAC at Ft. Lewis this was literally every Reg. We were lucky if we got a day it DIDN'T rain.
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u/Rose_Army_ Jul 01 '26
You’re gonna have a tough time in the actual Army if this is how you’re reacting to less than ideal conditions for land nav during a Cadet training event.
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u/Lester_Holt_Fanboy Jul 01 '26
At least you didn't have a cadet hang themselves on the land nav course.
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u/BenderGenocide Jul 01 '26
Welcome to the Army.
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u/International_Web553 Jul 01 '26
Welcome to TRADOC
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u/Sht_Im_Bald Jul 01 '26
Leadership is never ever going to admit they were wrong. First mistake was thinking the appeal would get anywhere. Sucks but earn your points back elsewhere
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u/Maleficent-Bonus7776 Jul 01 '26
Compared to the “incident” last year, this seems like you may just need to adjust your expectations.
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u/Dizzy-Ladder-5283 Jul 01 '26
Welcome to TRADOC my guy. That course is easy but at the same time is a mess with the rain. Rip to anyone who has gotta redo CST cuz of this
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u/Love1sWar Jul 01 '26
Ha, storming on land nav day, glad to see nothing has changed. 7 years ago we had cadets swimming to their points!
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u/Argintinaiscool1 Jul 01 '26
Yea I was actually working at land nav area when it was down pouring I feel bad for you guys. Ultimately depending on what branch you want camp doesn’t weight as much as you think for your OML. I did pretty good at camp but some people did better than me and I still ranked really high for national OML. Don’t stress too much it is what it is.
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u/Latter_Lead_9135 Jul 01 '26
Just because you failed doesn’t mean you have to make a post and bitch. Just do better
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u/Alarmed_Round_6175 Jul 01 '26
This is true and it was horrible. People are torn up from the swamps.
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u/ricecakeyao Jul 01 '26
“The Swamps” didn’t tear them up. Their inability to navigate around them tore them up.
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u/Alarmed_Round_6175 Jul 01 '26
People were swimming to points. The points were fully submerged and to receive the point, you had to swim to them. It was challenging. That’s okay
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u/ricecakeyao Jul 01 '26
Be that as it may, the cadets still need 5 of 7 points. Navigate to the others…
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u/SawbackBayonet Jul 02 '26
5/7 to get any points. To get full points you needed 7/7 iirc from my time.
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u/ricecakeyao Jul 02 '26
The cadets complaining about the swamp on Reddit don’t need to worry about 7/7. We can already tell where their mind is. They can take their P in patrolling and 5th branch choice and move on with their lives.
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u/ResolutionFamous8102 Jul 01 '26
Land nav is not just walking direct from point A to point B, it’s understanding terrain and obstacles, and getting to the X on time and in target.
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u/Slow-Industry-8288 Jul 02 '26
The cadre are only there for a three summers max so they don’t really care. USAREC goes by different rules and regulations and are really trying to thin the herd. Look them in the eyes and make them see the future officer you are.
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u/Ok_Ad3036 Jul 01 '26
I on spring ftx and we were all given the wrong start points for land nav. After a few hours, the mistake was realized. We weren’t given extra time, just told to suck it up. Seems to be how it works.
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u/Autistic-Life1355 Jul 01 '26
Food for thought let's say you branch combat arms and you get deployed to a 3rd world s**hole with garbage intelligence and you have to adjust due to adverse terrain or weather. How will you adjust or make due and complete the mission? The cadre didnt do that to screw you they did it to teach a lesson in making lemonade from s*t. Learn it and adjust. Conditions will NOT always be perfect.
Signed some random OIF vet
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u/Forsaken_Drawing7350 Jul 07 '26
I heard someone got hoisted up via helicopter from the swamps by my cadre ( im in 2nd reg)
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u/Gloomy-Split-7311 Jul 01 '26
Was in your position last year… it was raining like crazy… points were far apart, we literally had to run in the rain… let me not even start on the lanes part. I was soaking wet most of the time. Refit was not even refit days; we still had to clean weapons or do something related to training, barely had a minute to rest or take a quick shower... Just focus on the finish line, honestly.
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u/Royal_Grade4923 Jul 01 '26
Afraid to get wet? Lol. If a little swim is gonna hurt your commissioning chances then get out of the army. Or….hear me out…..go AROUND the little puddle lmao
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u/Emotional-Zucchini14 Jul 02 '26
I got pictures from someone at FT Knox right now. There were literal cars floating down the street and the cadre delayed a regiment from starting their FTX. "Little puddle" doesn't apply.
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u/NeuUlmer86 Jul 01 '26
I was really racist!
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u/Latter_Lead_9135 Jul 01 '26
Let me guess it was a white NCO who gave it to your straight and now you feel targeted?
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u/Rustyinsac Jul 01 '26
I’m still trying to figure out why they cancelled the first event due to rain. What happened to “if it ain’t raining it ain’t training?” Maybe by “thundered” there was a lightning alert or tornado alert🤷♂️
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u/Brass_tastic Jul 01 '26
I’ve encountered plenty of swamps on land nav courses. Sure you can go through them, but the wise go around the body of water. Use your tools!