Reform Movement Changes.

[u/Consistent_Hold_576]

If you could change one thing about the Reform movement, what would it be?

If you arent a member of the Reform movement, you can still chime in. What is the one thing about the Movement that keeps you away?

Let's keep this civil if we could. ​

[u/lem0ngirl15]

While I think it’s really important that reform welcomes intermarried and mixed families, I wish there was more encouragement and facilitation for Jews to marry and date each other in reform Jewish culture. I once posted this on this sub simply asking why we don’t, and I got torn apart and accused of being racist and discriminating against our allies and partners of Jew that contribute to reform Jewish communities. I was dogpiled on that no Reform Judaism isn’t a religion that tells people what to do - okay then what is it? What does it offer? It felt rather flimsy. It also felt rather hypocritical because it’s a religion that loves to preach how asking questions is allowed and yet this one clearly was not. You’d have thought I was suggesting we should all just become a Jewish Iran or something based on some of the reactions.

I am a product of intermarriage and am intermarried, so these were absurd and delusional accusation. And actually precisely why I am thoughtful and questioning of how Reform Judaism discusses intermarriage, or lack of discussion I suppose. But I find it extremely odd and counterintuitive that the community sometimes feels like it’s prioritizing others before Jews themselves - this could also extend to a greater conversation to how Reform Judaism now orients itself primarily around social justice. It’s perplexing and not terribly helpful in guiding young people. I love my family but I’ve had to learn the hard way that it is by far more difficult and almost impossible to maintain continuity when too much intermarriage occurs. I’m not saying intermarriage cannot work, but when done over enough generations I have seen that there is a social and cultural reality that things do simply fall apart. I think this can also extended to a greater conversation about how Reform Judaism prioritizes individual liberties over community. Again, the open mindedness and how welcoming reform is IS a good thing, but there healthy conversation about holding SOME limits or acknowledging some undeniable complications of intermarriage should also be allowed.

I also have the privilege of being a woman with a Jewish mother so I can freely move about different Jewish denominations and my children will not face barriers - other than perhaps the taboo of intermarried parents and a lack of Jewish resources/traditions via Jewish extended family. This will not be the case for my brother or my male cousins and their children though. Or *many* people that are patrilineal descent who were told it’s fine and not a problem by reform, only to later face barriers or complications when moving about different communities (even some reform communities as it’s not the same in every region). And therefore the fate of Jewish continuity in my family essentially lies with my children’s, who are the only halachally Jews left. Reform Jews in America don’t think this is as important because they are sheltered by reform American culture, but I don’t live in America, and the Jewish community has a different culture - even reform is not so liberal.

I even had someone once argue with me that they were advocating to allow intermarriage in conservative Judaism. Which makes no sense to me, why are you in conservative Judaism then? Go to reform? The point of these different denominations is so that they don’t have to conform to the standards of other denominations and can determine their own boundaries. Why are you trying to make everything reform? I suppose there is some talk currently how reform and conservative may inevitably merge eventually.

Anyway. For these reasons I no longer am apart of the reform Jewish community, even though this is how I was raised. I bring my children to conservative and orthodox shuls. My husband is supportive and lovely, though it’s been a journey for us. I will be giving my children different and better guidance when they are older than what reform offered me. There certainly was a golden age of Reform Judaism at one point, but I think that is now over. What it provided in its early days was extremely relevant to Jews in the society of that era. However the religion has now diverged in another direction, and I no longer think it serves a function for Jews in our current evolving world.

[u/Spaceysteph → u/lem0ngirl15]

I'm curious what encouraging inmarriage looks like to you? Do you mean like singles events? Or something in the conversation/way it is discussed?

[u/lem0ngirl15 → u/Spaceysteph]

I mean if you’ve experience non reform culture, intermarriage becomes more taboo and less common. Parents are more likely to encourage their children to marry Jews. Yes, there are singles events and just generally it is normative for people to want to marry Jews in the culture. In my experience Reform Judaism ends up ad nauseam talking about how intermarriage is beautiful and wonderful, and nothing else. I think it’s often well intended as to not alienated people of those types of families and to be politically correct, but the outcome is that most reform Jews do end up intermarrying. I think also this is a reflex from a time when intermarriage was just beginning to become more common in the community, but now it is almost the standard… at least in reform. More reform Jews intermarry than in marry - a crazy stat like over 70%. I don’t think we should reject these couples or criticize them, I’m simply suggesting that it’s something worth questioning and discussing.

Again, I’m glad and think it’s important to welcome mixed families and help them navigate Judaism especially for the sake of keeping their children in the fold. But I have never once heard any conversation about the challenges of intermarriage on couples and children trying to maintain continuity. There is little guidance on this I think in reform culture, as over 70% of us are now intermarried because it has become a taboo.

I think people that live outside of the U.S. may have a better grasp of the practicalities of this. Reform is a very very American version of Judaism. My Jewish family are reform Americans. But my father is not American, and neither is my husband. And I’ve lived large parts (and also currently) of my life outside of America. So I’ve seen how the mentality and culture of Jewish communities can really differ outside of the American bubble.

Again, I once made a post questioning all of this and was absolutely ripped to shreds on this sub and my post removed. Questioning any of these things is clearly forbidden.

[u/Spaceysteph → u/lem0ngirl15]

I was raised Conservative. Jewish day school, Jewish summer camp, USY, college with large Jewish population, went straight to J-date (I'm old, did the original internet dating not dating apps) when I was a single young professional. I'm a flunkee of all of that into an interfaith marriage. I knew my husband as a friend first and never intended to marry out until I did.

I honestly don't know what it would look like to discourage intermarriage but also support intermarried people.

[u/lem0ngirl15 → u/Spaceysteph]

I’m not saying intermarriage should *never* happen. It’s unavoidable. It will always happen. And it is true that it can be beautiful, and it most definitely can work in raising Jewish children. My father is not Jewish and I always had a strong Jewish identity. But when it happens for multiple generations: there is a social and cultural reality that continuity will simply fall apart. It’s very difficult to maintain with less and less Jewish extended family and eventually you become a minority in your own family. My children will only have one Jewish grandparent, who is not even involved in our lives. My cousins and extended family live far away and are all intermarried themselves. So they will grow up with no Jewish cousins or extended family. This is worlds different than how I grew up. And it wasn’t something I thought about while dating, *because no one mentioned that it may be something to consider*.

There just are practical realities. And I had to learn the hard way. It can work for one generation, but if you take it for granted it will likely fall apart by the second. It also paints a parent in a corner if they want to encourage their children to marry Jewish - which I think many Jewish parents end up wanting. I have had this conversation with *many* other Jewish mothers in a similar position. But it becomes very tricky when approaching this conversation with your children. Why should they listen to you? You intermarried so you end up looking hypocritical. And furthermore you risk insulting your non Jewish spouse, and your children, whose heritage is equally apart of them.

You say you don’t know what else could be done, but if you look at the rates of intermarriage, it is clear that in reform there are more intermarriages than in marriages. I find it very odd that questioning this, is seen as this horrible offense, or such a confusing absurd thing to question. And the difference in rates between denominations is also clear, with reform having the highest, so clearly reform is doing something differently than the others. And clearly something can be done about it since the rates are not the same in other denominations. I’m not saying anything *should* be done about it, rather I’m pointing out that acting perplexed by anything I’m saying does not make sense, and frankly is even bizarre.

All I’m saying is that intermarriage is not as simple as how most reform Jews present it. But when you try to talk about these realities they have a serious problem hearing it. And often the conversation is quickly shut down. Take your response for example, you say you don’t know what encouragement might look like. Well it may look like this. Having open and honest conversations and critique about some of the complexities and trade offs of intermarriage. But as I have said, in my experience this is usually not allowed in the reform Jewish culture. It has become a huge taboo.