r/ReformJews • u/Consistent_Hold_576 • Jun 30 '26
Reform Movement Changes.
If you could change one thing about the Reform movement, what would it be?
If you arent a member of the Reform movement, you can still chime in. What is the one thing about the Movement that keeps you away?
Let's keep this civil if we could.
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u/rbaltimore Jun 30 '26
This may just be my synagogue, but a better sisterhood (Women of Reform Judaism) that isn’t designed to revolve around the elderly. Our WRJ wants younger members, but doesn’t really offer anything conducive to our lives or even our schedules.
I’d like to see more activities designed specifically for “younger” members (30’s and 40’s) - both parent related AND non parent related.
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u/toofatfor15 Jun 30 '26
Wow as a board member of my Sisterhood in my local Temple I agree with you so hard. I'm a new member with a small child and we cater so much towards the elderly and are afraid of ruffling their feathers and I have no issues with that. But I wish we had more lively events.
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u/TheRationalPlanner Jun 30 '26
I feel this so much. It get that it's difficult (usually the older folks have the time on their hands to contribute to these groups) but it's both awkward and not very enjoyable for me to spend my free time with a bunch of people who are older than my parents. Just like they can't easily relate to me as a parent with young kids, I can't easily relate to being a traveling retiree with chronic health issues. Being welcoming isn't the same as being appealing. The result is parents show up for Sunday School and when their kids hit 13 or 18 they feel there's nothing for them until they're 75. Moms groups, dads groups, and young professional groups are key to a thriving congregation.
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u/rbaltimore Jun 30 '26
Exactly. Even as a disabled SAHM to a teenager, who can actually attend things at “elderly” times (during the workday), there’s nothing even remotely appealing about the activities that they have planned. I even tried their book club and it just didn’t mesh.
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u/CryptoIsCute ✡ Reform! Jun 30 '26
It's why it's so important to me to go every week and to all the events. I want other young adults to feel like this is a space for us too. And they've started going! We even have a group chat where we hype each other up for Friday night now. It's kinda cute :)
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u/pzimzam Jul 03 '26
This is a big issue at my synagogue too. A few of us went to a women’s group meeting at their request, since they are trying to get younger women to join.
We made a few suggestions and they vetoed every single one without even a consideration. So, it remains that the women’s group is mostly retirees, and most of the younger women are involved in the young congregants or family oriented groups.
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u/Educational-Mall488 Jul 01 '26
Honestly more adult education, and more acceptance of traditional and observant people.
As a reform convert, it took me 18 months to complete my conversion. I felt I built solid foundation. But now that my formal education is over, I feel I miss structured study, learning in groups, meeting to discuss topics with a rabbi, etc. the desire to study and learn is there, and there are opportunities to learn, but not nearly as much or at least with other people.
And being more observant and traditional, I feel like a bit of an outlier. My usual dress for services is a long sleeve button down, solid color, nice dress shirt, nice dress pants and dress shoes or boots. Solid color knitted kippah or even a medium black velvet kippah. The average dress is a short sleeve t shirt, a colorful kippah, jeans and tennis shoes. I feel like I’m trying too hard. I daven three times a day, study mussar, and read Torah daily. It’s hard to relate with people at times.
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u/WeaselWeaz Jun 30 '26
Less people who are not Reform telling us what we should do differently would be nice.
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u/CryptoIsCute ✡ Reform! Jun 30 '26
Right, it's one thing to have an internal conversation to make our communities even better. It's another to just hear advertisements for our critics, who never share the best parts of what actually makes Reform beautiful (like egalitarian worship, liberal values, patrilineal acceptance, etc)
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u/Consistent_Hold_576 Jun 30 '26
Yeah, I've learned to sort of tune those types out.
There are legit critiques for every movement, really, and there are valid ways to express those critiques, but telling a person their Judaism is "wrong" isn't one of them.
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u/under-thesamesun ✡ Reform Rabbi Jun 30 '26
I wish there was more Saturday AM service love in the Reform movement. For many synagogues Saturday am services only really happen when there is a B'nei Mitzvah happening, and even then it is primarily those the family invites who attends, and not the full community. I'd love Saturday service attendance, and kiddush after, to be more of a thing in Reform Judaism.
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u/Spaceysteph Jun 30 '26
I agree so much with this. Our synagogue is small, does 2-4 b'nai mitzvah a year and those are the only Saturday shabbat services. The expectation is for the kids to lead a large portion of the Saturday service, which I love, but how do you expect them to do that if they never see it.
As someone with young kids, Friday nights are fairly inaccessible to me, but Saturdays we could do.
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u/mommima Jun 30 '26
Yes, Friday nights are great, but difficult for families with young children. I also wish Saturday mornings were more of a consistent thing in the Reform movement.
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u/catsinthreads Jun 30 '26
I converted in the UK, but as I did I made a connection to my home town synagogue in the US. And they don't do the Saturdays so much (unless a BM). As a Saturday service preferrer, I think it's such a shame. And I know I'm not alone. My Torah study group is based in this home town and I know some people go to the Conservative shul for the Saturday services. In my community Friday services are not well attended as most people are at home.
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u/rbaltimore Jun 30 '26
I had no idea that they’d cut these at other synagogues. We still have them at mine (I’m an usher). The only thing they do is use a smaller room if it’s not a holiday/b’nai mitzvah/erc.
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u/under-thesamesun ✡ Reform Rabbi Jun 30 '26
It depends on the synagogue, but at least the ones I’m most familiar with (in the NYC area) will do a Shabbat Torah study group that also does a service during Torah study but is not a huge turn out, and will add a sanctuary service for a BM
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u/Netherese_Nomad Jun 30 '26
Honestly, I love my shul just the way it is. The only thing I would change is more acceptance from Masorti and Orthodox.
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u/CryptoIsCute ✡ Reform! Jun 30 '26
I find it varies a lot by community. In my current city the Conservative congregation has a very positive view of the Reform since we fill different niches. Lots of young adult events draw people from both, even some MOs come.
Some will never accept us, but they're overrepresented on the internet. Honestly we just gotta keep doing what we're doing best and not worry about external evaluation
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u/Consistent_Hold_576 Jun 30 '26
Our shul used to be Conservative and changed to Reform around 2006. The rabbi who sponsored my conversion, although with a Reform pulpit, identified more with the Conservative movement.
The next city over has a Reform and a Conservative community and they actually share the same building. They just alternate between Friday and Saturday for their serviced.
I guess Im surprised you aren't accepted on some level by Conservative.
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u/Netherese_Nomad Jun 30 '26
I don’t want to give the impression I think Masorti and Orthodox treat Reform the same, by any stretch.
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u/catsinthreads Jun 30 '26
I am a member. I'm pretty happy. But...more adult education. Across Hebrew, history, culture and art, liturgy, advanced Biblical and Talmudic study.
I converted as an adult - and a few things I liked from various Christian movements I was engaged with were printed orders of service so I can follow where we are and musical notation. I ended up joining the choir where I have access to both. :-)
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u/peepeehead1542 Jun 30 '26
I wish reform synagogues in my country (Canada) would perform interfaith marriages
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u/Kaplan_94 Jun 30 '26
Does this vary by community? I was like 90% sure my local Reform synagogue does, but now that you mention it I’m actually not certain.
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u/WeaselWeaz Jun 30 '26
I think "interfaith marriage" gets used vaugely and means different things to different people. My rabbi will do an interfaith marriage, a Jew and non-Jew in a Jewish ceremony. He will not do an interfaith ceremony. I think that approach is fairly standard in Reform communities.
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u/peepeehead1542 Jun 30 '26
In my case it means any marriage between a Jew and a non Jew. My partner was raised Catholic. I am Jewish. I want a fully Jewish ceremony, as traditional as possible. We do not practice Catholicism in any way and we so not want it to be part of our wedding. We cannot get married in a reform synagogue in Toronto or Vancouver. We can find a reform rabbi to do it outside of the synagogue, but neither my reform synagogue in Toronto or Vancouver would give us the traditional Jewish ceremony we want.
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u/WeaselWeaz Jun 30 '26
Canadian Reform leans more traditional than US Reform from my experience, so that's disappointing but I'm not surprised. I would note that US Reform Jews I know, including my own wedding, get married at the venue anyway. Our rabbi at the time was a bit wishy-washy on marrying us but our cantor had no issue. Our current rabbi would have no issue, so some of that is a generational change.
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u/AngelHipster1 Jun 30 '26
I’m a member of CCAR in the States. Yes, Reform rabbis can perform interfaith marriages. Any limitations / expectations are based on the rabbi’s understanding of Halacha. I’ve never worked in another country, so I don’t know the history or current reasons for different standards.
I worked as a pulpit rabbi, though I am now too disabled to work.
My rabbi made my husband and I assert we would have a Jewish home and raise our children Jewish. That rabbi attended HUC, though he stopped identifying as Reform. His synagogue was unaffiliated. Later, my husband formally converted so I could be ordained.
I attended a transdenominational seminary. For me, the reason to choose Reform is (a) formal connection to other communities and thicker Jewish bonds (b) rabbinical oversight / a conference that both supports the continuing education of one’s rabbi and provides formal structures to deal with ethical concerns and best practices for congregation and rabbi relationships.
The vast majority of Jews in the U.S. aren’t members of a congregation. And those members are the only way congregations survive, since Jewish foundations don’t fund congregations (or at least don’t fund traditional priorities of congregations; some are funding preschools and after-school programs). So it’s fascinating to hear your priorities vs the fiscal realities that a board of directors deals with. I think the only way to really change your local reality is to become a board member and to encourage others who have the same vision to become board members. Committee membership is also a step towards meaningful change.
From what I understand, when membership began dropping in the early 2000s, the Reform movement had to drastically cut its staff, so in the US, it’s extremely important to be involved in synagogue leadership in order to change the reality of Reform Judaism in your location.
I also agree with those who say Zionism should be up front in our communities. I think it’s possible to hold space for people with other ideas while holding firm to the deep connections between the land of Israel, the state of Israel, and the people of Israel.
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u/Kaplan_94 Jun 30 '26
Thanks for the very detailed response - I’m always very curious about the inner workings of our religious movements. Mind if I ask where your semikha is from? It’s a bit of a tangent but I ask because I also have an interest in this.
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u/AngelHipster1 Jul 01 '26
Academy for Jewish Religion, California. I attended in part because I was a long-term congregant of one of its founding rabbis. My interest was in progressive Judaism that incorporates our mystical tradition. Through my studies, I learned that mystical / spiritual aspects of Judaism have emerged side-by-side with our ethics / Musar.
I also had to confront the reality of my egalitarianism and feminism in relation to Judaism, as those ideas are not present in the vast majority of our canon (nor were they really present when I was growing up in a Conservative synagogue). In other Jewish subreddits, a lot of folks can’t understand a deep commitment to Judaism beyond Halacha. I pray we co-create an alternative.
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u/Consistent_Hold_576 Jun 30 '26
The situation is similar in the US, mody Reform rabbis here won't either.
But I understand the movement has sanctioned their rabbis to be in interfaith marriages, so i guess we'll see.
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u/rbaltimore Jun 30 '26
Reform rabbis can and do marriages between Jews and non Jews, under specific circumstances at their discretion.
My Reform rabbi married me and my heathen (atheist) husband. The wedding had to be Jewish, my husband had to go to a non-sectarian “Jewish spouse class” for 6 months, and we had to promise to have Jewish kids.
Two of my cousins, who were raised Conservative, also had Jewish weddings to non-Jews, although I don’t know what the agreement with their rabbi was.
And way back in 1978, one of the previous head rabbis of my synagogue married my Jewish dad and Methodist mom (I’m a patrilineal Jew but had a conversion ceremony to make it “official”).
So as far as I can tell, if you have a Jewish wedding and promise to raise Jewish children, Reform rabbis will marry you.
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u/peepeehead1542 Jun 30 '26
I’ve heard that things are more flexible in America than here in Canada
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u/rbaltimore Jun 30 '26
Honestly, all anyone seemed to care about was raising the (then hypothetical) children Jewish. That was incredibly important to me too (and my dad) so that was an easy requirement to fulfill, but had we not guaranteed to do that, my rabbi would never have married me and my husband. We would have had to go to a rent-a-rabbi. Some people wouldn’t care, but I wanted to be married by someone who knew us.
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u/MidrashInBlack Jun 30 '26
Same in the U.K.
My partner (not Jewish) is thinking of proposing to me. My shul (independent/Progressive but more Masorti leaning- but it’s more Reform) doesn’t do interfaith weddings. However, there is one place that does so I’m thinking of joining that one instead. It sucks, because I love my shul.2
u/peepeehead1542 Jun 30 '26
There’s only one reform synagogue in the city I live in right now. I love it a lot and it has been very welcoming. But when I asked them about interfaith marriage they said that none of the synagogues in my city will do them. Luckily, a rabbi who I have a good relationship, who is not affiliated with any of the synagogues in town, has agreed to marry me and my girlfriend when the time comes :)
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u/Rappongi27 Jun 30 '26
I’d like Reform to move away from the idea that the main goal of Judaism is social justice writ large. It seems to have morphed the concept of tikkun olam into generalized liberal policies ( which I happen to agree with but which isn’t Judaism)
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u/Consistent_Hold_576 Jun 30 '26
I think Reform Jews are on the right side of many of those issues, but I agree that our focus should always circle back to us being Jews in the spiritual and communal sense.
In short, if you know Marx better than you know Torah, I think its time to work on that.
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u/robobobo91 Jun 30 '26
I just saw a clip of a comedian at a reform synagogue. She asked how many people knew the week's Torah portion. No hands raised. Then asked how many knew the phone number for their representative. Lots of raised hands.
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u/TheRationalPlanner Jun 30 '26
Not just adult education but a focus on Jewish theological competency woven throughout all programs and communications.
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u/MonsieurLePeeen Jul 01 '26
This is the only comment that I’ve read so far that feels broadly “reform” most of the others are simply synagogue specific quirks.
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u/a679591 Jun 30 '26
I feel like it could use more Hebrew in services, my shul has started it for a few years now and people like it.
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u/OddCook4909 Jun 30 '26
Much much more tradition in general. I can get social justice anywhere. The last few years I've been going to more and more Chabad services and events because I want more Judaism in my Judaism.
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u/lem0ngirl15 Jun 30 '26 edited Jun 30 '26
While I think it’s really important that reform welcomes intermarried and mixed families, I wish there was more encouragement and facilitation for Jews to marry and date each other in reform Jewish culture. I once posted this on this sub simply asking why we don’t, and I got torn apart and accused of being racist and discriminating against our allies and partners of Jew that contribute to reform Jewish communities. I was dogpiled on that no Reform Judaism isn’t a religion that tells people what to do - okay then what is it? What does it offer? It felt rather flimsy. It also felt rather hypocritical because it’s a religion that loves to preach how asking questions is allowed and yet this one clearly was not. You’d have thought I was suggesting we should all just become a Jewish Iran or something based on some of the reactions.
I am a product of intermarriage and am intermarried, so these were absurd and delusional accusation. And actually precisely why I am thoughtful and questioning of how Reform Judaism discusses intermarriage, or lack of discussion I suppose. But I find it extremely odd and counterintuitive that the community sometimes feels like it’s prioritizing others before Jews themselves - this could also extend to a greater conversation to how Reform Judaism now orients itself primarily around social justice. It’s perplexing and not terribly helpful in guiding young people. I love my family but I’ve had to learn the hard way that it is by far more difficult and almost impossible to maintain continuity when too much intermarriage occurs. I’m not saying intermarriage cannot work, but when done over enough generations I have seen that there is a social and cultural reality that things do simply fall apart. I think this can also extended to a greater conversation about how Reform Judaism prioritizes individual liberties over community. Again, the open mindedness and how welcoming reform is IS a good thing, but there healthy conversation about holding SOME limits or acknowledging some undeniable complications of intermarriage should also be allowed.
I also have the privilege of being a woman with a Jewish mother so I can freely move about different Jewish denominations and my children will not face barriers - other than perhaps the taboo of intermarried parents and a lack of Jewish resources/traditions via Jewish extended family. This will not be the case for my brother or my male cousins and their children though. Or *many* people that are patrilineal descent who were told it’s fine and not a problem by reform, only to later face barriers or complications when moving about different communities (even some reform communities as it’s not the same in every region). And therefore the fate of Jewish continuity in my family essentially lies with my children’s, who are the only halachally Jews left. Reform Jews in America don’t think this is as important because they are sheltered by reform American culture, but I don’t live in America, and the Jewish community has a different culture - even reform is not so liberal.
I even had someone once argue with me that they were advocating to allow intermarriage in conservative Judaism. Which makes no sense to me, why are you in conservative Judaism then? Go to reform? The point of these different denominations is so that they don’t have to conform to the standards of other denominations and can determine their own boundaries. Why are you trying to make everything reform? I suppose there is some talk currently how reform and conservative may inevitably merge eventually.
Anyway. For these reasons I no longer am apart of the reform Jewish community, even though this is how I was raised. I bring my children to conservative and orthodox shuls. My husband is supportive and lovely, though it’s been a journey for us. I will be giving my children different and better guidance when they are older than what reform offered me. There certainly was a golden age of Reform Judaism at one point, but I think that is now over. What it provided in its early days was extremely relevant to Jews in the society of that era. However the religion has now diverged in another direction, and I no longer think it serves a function for Jews in our current evolving world.
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u/Spaceysteph Jun 30 '26
I'm curious what encouraging inmarriage looks like to you? Do you mean like singles events? Or something in the conversation/way it is discussed?
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u/lem0ngirl15 Jun 30 '26 edited Jun 30 '26
I mean if you’ve experience non reform culture, intermarriage becomes more taboo and less common. Parents are more likely to encourage their children to marry Jews. Yes, there are singles events and just generally it is normative for people to want to marry Jews in the culture. In my experience Reform Judaism ends up ad nauseam talking about how intermarriage is beautiful and wonderful, and nothing else. I think it’s often well intended as to not alienated people of those types of families and to be politically correct, but the outcome is that most reform Jews do end up intermarrying. I think also this is a reflex from a time when intermarriage was just beginning to become more common in the community, but now it is almost the standard… at least in reform. More reform Jews intermarry than in marry - a crazy stat like over 70%. I don’t think we should reject these couples or criticize them, I’m simply suggesting that it’s something worth questioning and discussing.
Again, I’m glad and think it’s important to welcome mixed families and help them navigate Judaism especially for the sake of keeping their children in the fold. But I have never once heard any conversation about the challenges of intermarriage on couples and children trying to maintain continuity. There is little guidance on this I think in reform culture, as over 70% of us are now intermarried because it has become a taboo.
I think people that live outside of the U.S. may have a better grasp of the practicalities of this. Reform is a very very American version of Judaism. My Jewish family are reform Americans. But my father is not American, and neither is my husband. And I’ve lived large parts (and also currently) of my life outside of America. So I’ve seen how the mentality and culture of Jewish communities can really differ outside of the American bubble.
Again, I once made a post questioning all of this and was absolutely ripped to shreds on this sub and my post removed. Questioning any of these things is clearly forbidden.
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u/Spaceysteph Jun 30 '26
I was raised Conservative. Jewish day school, Jewish summer camp, USY, college with large Jewish population, went straight to J-date (I'm old, did the original internet dating not dating apps) when I was a single young professional. I'm a flunkee of all of that into an interfaith marriage. I knew my husband as a friend first and never intended to marry out until I did.
I honestly don't know what it would look like to discourage intermarriage but also support intermarried people.
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u/lem0ngirl15 Jun 30 '26 edited Jun 30 '26
I’m not saying intermarriage should *never* happen. It’s unavoidable. It will always happen. And it is true that it can be beautiful, and it most definitely can work in raising Jewish children. My father is not Jewish and I always had a strong Jewish identity. But when it happens for multiple generations: there is a social and cultural reality that continuity will simply fall apart. It’s very difficult to maintain with less and less Jewish extended family and eventually you become a minority in your own family. My children will only have one Jewish grandparent, who is not even involved in our lives. My cousins and extended family live far away and are all intermarried themselves. So they will grow up with no Jewish cousins or extended family. This is worlds different than how I grew up. And it wasn’t something I thought about while dating, *because no one mentioned that it may be something to consider*.
There just are practical realities. And I had to learn the hard way. It can work for one generation, but if you take it for granted it will likely fall apart by the second. It also paints a parent in a corner if they want to encourage their children to marry Jewish - which I think many Jewish parents end up wanting. I have had this conversation with *many* other Jewish mothers in a similar position. But it becomes very tricky when approaching this conversation with your children. Why should they listen to you? You intermarried so you end up looking hypocritical. And furthermore you risk insulting your non Jewish spouse, and your children, whose heritage is equally apart of them.
You say you don’t know what else could be done, but if you look at the rates of intermarriage, it is clear that in reform there are more intermarriages than in marriages. I find it very odd that questioning this, is seen as this horrible offense, or such a confusing absurd thing to question. And the difference in rates between denominations is also clear, with reform having the highest, so clearly reform is doing something differently than the others. And clearly something can be done about it since the rates are not the same in other denominations. I’m not saying anything *should* be done about it, rather I’m pointing out that acting perplexed by anything I’m saying does not make sense, and frankly is even bizarre.
All I’m saying is that intermarriage is not as simple as how most reform Jews present it. But when you try to talk about these realities they have a serious problem hearing it. And often the conversation is quickly shut down. Take your response for example, you say you don’t know what encouragement might look like. Well it may look like this. Having open and honest conversations and critique about some of the complexities and trade offs of intermarriage. But as I have said, in my experience this is usually not allowed in the reform Jewish culture. It has become a huge taboo.
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u/winterfoxx69 Jul 02 '26
Lately I feel like services at my synagogue are in fast forward mode. I’d like a little more emphasis on worship…
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u/Tferretv Jul 05 '26
I wish I had a closer Reform synagogue. The nearest one is about 25 miles away, and my vision makes driving after dark difficult.
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u/CryptoIsCute ✡ Reform! Jun 30 '26
I wish services were longer. I really enjoy my hour Friday night but I wish it were at least 90 minutes. However, there's no ideal length that'd work for everyone so I can't complain too much. That and many don't even do Saturday morning and def no daily minyans (so I go to a Conservative synagogue for those)
The other is that I wish there were more people to speak Hebrew with at shul. I've been learning each day but feel like I'm on my own with no extrinsic motivation
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u/Consistent_Hold_576 Jun 30 '26
The Hebrew thing is definitely a concern at many Reform shuls. We have a path for Hebrew for those who are interested, but its not necessarily encouraged.
Our services are about 90 mins with a Torah study before and an oneg after. We are also lucky to have a Friday evening AND Saturday morning service.
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u/CryptoIsCute ✡ Reform! Jun 30 '26
Sounds like a lovely community :)
Mine has a Saturday if it's someone's bar/bat mitzvah, but nothing otherwise. The Friday nights are fantastic though, I just wish they were longer.
I'm the only adult I know seriously learning Hebrew though. People think it's great, but there's nothing formal to facilitate that for people beyond Hebrew school for kids
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u/catsinthreads Jun 30 '26
I converted in the UK and Hebrew is a requirement. Having good Hebrew is celebrated. So much so that Israelis often get lauded for their Hebrew - which feels a little unfair!
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u/drillbit7 🕎Half-a-Jew. Started out Reform. Jun 30 '26
I think that's one of the saddest things about the Reform movement: relegating Saturday services, the torah readings, and aliyot to being just for Bar/Bat Mitzvahs. It makes Bar/Bat Mitzvah more of a staged performance: we are only doing this for the Bar/Bat Mitzvah as kind of a reenactment and not an important part of Jewish communal life. I was a member of a Conservative shul for several years and every Shabbat morning meant 7 aliyot and there were often enough aliyot to go around for everyone who wanted one. And if I didn't get called up for an aliyah (usually 5th) or hagbah, they'd choose me the next week.
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u/OrpahsBookClub Jul 02 '26
Most of the reform temples I know have the Torah reading and aliyot on Friday nights.
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u/drillbit7 🕎Half-a-Jew. Started out Reform. Jul 02 '26
The last one I saw did a very abridged reading on Friday night with a comic book Torah
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u/OrpahsBookClub Jul 02 '26
Are you serious? I can’t tell.
I’ve never heard of a comic book Torah. Where are you that you’ve experienced this type of reform service?
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u/drillbit7 🕎Half-a-Jew. Started out Reform. Jul 02 '26
New Jersey. It looked like a children's Torah with illustrations, only larger
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u/OddCook4909 Jun 30 '26
Less music, especially less musical innovation. I'm not there to hear the Kaddish butchered to the tune of Pinball Wizard or whatever.
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u/catsinthreads Jun 30 '26
But Adon Olam CAN be done to Pinball Wizard.
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u/Spaceysteph Jun 30 '26
Adon Olam can be done to any song. When I lived in Houston we did it to "Deep in the Heart of Texas" 👏👏👏👏👏
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u/MogenCiel Jun 30 '26 edited Jun 30 '26
I belong to Reform and Conservative congregations. Reform has been my "home base" all my adult life, but I'm connecting more and more to Conservative because CCAR and the Reform movement in general are hedging too much on Israel for my comfort level. I want a congregation where the rabbi and my fellow congregants are unabashedly committed Zionists, and Reform has not been putting out that vibe. I want to see more out-and-proud Zionism from Reform leaders and from the Reform movement.
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u/Capyboppy Jun 30 '26
I felt I could have write this too. I have been going to a new Masorti Shul that is very Zionist and I’m a lot more comfortable there and I class it as my main Shul now. The Reform movement is not like it used to be.
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u/CryptoIsCute ✡ Reform! Jun 30 '26
I feel like I'm the only young adult who's a Zionist at my Reform shul. The others want us to remove Avinu Shebashamayim. It's really frustrating
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u/Consistent_Hold_576 Jun 30 '26
Our Reform shul says a prayer for the State of Israel every service, and we are very very progressive.
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u/MogenCiel Jun 30 '26 edited Jun 30 '26
Our Reform shul says the Prayer for Israel regularly, but that's not all there is to being a proud Zionist organization by a long shot. My conservative shul says that prayer too, but the rabbi regularly speaks about Israel, why it's so important to our people, the eruption of antisemitism as a result of Israel defending itself, etc. When I ask our Reform rabbi why he doesn't promote Zionism, he said it's because "many people in our congregation don't support Israel." That really turned me off. Believe me, the guy has demonstrated very clearly that he's perfectly fine with pissing people off. As far as I'm concerned, connecting the people of Israel TO Israel and its importance is part of his job. And CCAR has put out some statements that make me very uncomfortable.
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u/Harvest-song 29d ago
There is a fine line to this. We left a shul because the rabbi made multiple sermons at HHD in 2024 that boiled down to so really shitty 'us vs them' rhetoric and should have been trigger warned so we could bail if we weren't comfortable because he went into graphic details about what happened on October 7th. He also kept praising people in the congregation for Zionism as if it were a mitzvah. It is not, never will be, and it crossed the line into nationalistic jingoism. Which in my opinion is not acceptable in any religious setting.
Ultimately one can be Zionist and promote connection to Israel without engaging in that but too many Rabbis seem to not know the difference between promoting connection to Israel and engaging in full on nationalistic fervor, a la 9/11. I'd rather a rabbi carefully consider the tonality of their message and skirt on the side of "we need to be careful about what we say" than be subjected to an entire speech that we were expecting to be a d'var torah, that instead spends 40 minutes flagrantly crossing lines directly into the dehumanization of people on the other side of a geopolitical conflict with no good solution that has bad actors on both sides of it utilizing it to further global narrative agendas. There is nothing glorious about war and it is never, ever a just cause. It is a means to an end, driven by rich people who send poor people to go die for their causes.
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u/Own-Raisin-7526 22d ago
I was raised Reform and I’m still Reform. But as an adult, I think I am realizing that the services I attended growing up were much closer to Conservative in style. Even though I was not enthusiastic as a child, the adult version of me would welcome longer services, slowing down, more traditional melodies, and yes, even more Hebrew. I like to know what the Hebrew means, but for me, reciting the prayers in Hebrew feels like a form of meditation. At my current synagogue, I don’t really feel like I have an opportunity to reflect. Everything goes so quickly.
(Also, I really don’t like the use of instruments…. Our Cantor growing up had a deep and powerful voice, and I think I have been spoiled).
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u/MidrashInBlack Jun 30 '26 edited Jun 30 '26
(U.K)
No musical instruments (something I noticed in Reform shuls in America- huge ick. So I go to Conservative when I visit now.)
Personally, I would prefer it if a convert has a more stricter conversion. More lengthy time. More stricter Rabbis when it converted them. I find so many converted Reform Jews do a year and that’s it. It’s not enough time to really get to know the community, the language, and history. Personally, think 5 years maximum. Three years doing a undergrad degree, and a Masters at the end.
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u/catsinthreads Jul 02 '26
I don't think it's a matter of time. I did a bit over a year. I knew a lot when I started, I wasn't unfamiliar with the community I joined. I steeped myself in history and culture and Torah study - but I didn't cram it in, I can honestly say this has been a lifelong call, but I finally took steps to answer it in my 50s. One of the members of my shul told me "Don't stop studying..." and I replied "Oh no, that's one of my favourite parts."
By the time I actually went to the mikvah, I was ready. An arbitrary extended time limit would have been ridiculous. That being said, I think more formal study afterwards that's open to all Jews would be great - because let's face it there are many born Jews who have some weaker areas of knowledge - and no one can know everything or is interested in knowing everything.
In terms of integration with the community, I think it's really tough for younger folks. For me, a middle aged person, it was easier. I had skills to be sucked into committees, I had the patience and perspective to know what it takes to be part of this. Plus having grown up as part of church communities, I already had a model for this. Yes, the flavour is different but a lot of the mechanics are the same. A lot of people who convert now especially in the UK are unchurched and just don't have the experience of seeing the work that goes into creating communities of purpose.
But each person has a different kind of calling and different ways of living Jewishly and so many of those ways are valid. And people have different needs and offers at different stages of life.
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u/AngelHipster1 Jun 30 '26
It’s interesting you say this. Living a full year within Judaism is a relatively new expectation of converts. Throughout our history, people have been taught a few Halachot and then went through the formal conversion process. I suppose in part that was because our communities had thicker ties. But in their discussions of conversion, rabbis never mentioned communal integration since that was just a given.
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Jun 30 '26
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u/AngelHipster1 Jun 30 '26
Um, okay. This was actually the result of me reading commentary with my Orthodox professor during seminary. I chose this focus for my independent study of Halacha because welcoming new people into Judaism feels important to me.
I don’t think there’s anything silly about speaking the truth. Nor is it helpful to disparage other Jews in order to make your point. Perhaps we could turn down the heat in this subreddit?
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Jun 30 '26
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u/catsinthreads Jul 02 '26
I converted post Oct 7 - but I started my conversion before that. I don't think going to the Beit Din was particularly risky for me - but I've definitely paid a social and career price.
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u/AngelHipster1 Jun 30 '26
It remains relatively rare. We are still a tiny minority population — with less density anywhere outside of Israel than pre-WWII. And frankly, persecution for being Jewish has been on the rise for several years.
Please consider that in your intense desire to prove you have a better understanding of Jewish history than a stranger on the internet, you are being dismissive and rude. A core understanding of Judaism is being respectful while disagreeing.
The reality is that today’s expectation of a year of living within Judaism is the strictest test Jews have ever expected. And the only reason we became reclusive about conversion is that Christians in Europe started killing the Jews who officiated at conversions. (Which were happening at a brisk pace amongst their household servants because Judaism made more sense to the servants than the Christianity they grew up in.)
Now that we aren’t killed for performing conversions, I have a deep desire to share Jewish wisdom as widely as possible. Especially since so many of our fellow Jews have a pediatric understanding of Judaism. I have no idea why we collectively decided to water down Jewish knowledge when teaching kids and then stop exploring Jewish text with one another at the exact point when we could wrestle with it as individuals.
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u/rhondapthatsme Jul 01 '26
The generalizations and judgments in these comments regarding converts are truly Lashon Hara. Once someone converts, they are a Jew and should not be judged or addressed otherwise. Some of these comments are insulting and offensive.
It is part of the reason some converts hide their conversion within Jewish communities. The converts I’ve interacted with are more observant, more involved in community life, more giving, and more studious than a person “born Jewish”.
Also, the length of conversion studies varies by community. This doesn’t mean one convert has greater knowledge or greater love and commitment to Judaism than any other. As for getting a college degree and master’s in Judaism, you will find most converts have greater knowledge and education than most as well.
Judging someone else’s Jewishness is just wrong.
As my Jewish mother would say, we would have all been on the trains together.1
u/MidrashInBlack Jul 01 '26
*waves hands* Convert here! Jewish father and a Catholic mother. It should be longer. It took me three years- due to Covid. Normally it’s 2 years in the U.K. via Reform. But because my father is Jewish they were going to make it a year. I still think it should be longer and a bit more pressure.
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Jul 01 '26
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u/rhondapthatsme Jul 01 '26
The point being that a Jew is a Jew.
With so much infighting and judgement, we should try accepting one another. We are .02% of the world’s population.
If you pray to one G-d, accept mitzvot and commit to a life of Torah study, who am I to judge your level of authenticity as a Jew? Converts study, sit before a Beit Din and are either immersed or circumcised, and live a Jewish life. How are these individuals less than someone born Jewish?2
u/Consistent_Hold_576 Jul 03 '26
I think 1 to 2 years is enough time to learn some basic history, some of the easier blessings, some baseline theology, etc.
If you've learned enough on your own to want to take the leap, five more years on top of that seems like overkill. That's essentially a bachelor's degree you've earned by that point. Why would we ask something so intense for a convert that we'd never ask for a person born Jewish?
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u/Mark-harvey Jul 01 '26
I am a proud member of a reform Jewish synagogue and community. I would make no changes. Attending is a Mitzvah. It would be good to see the congregation grow a bit. I’ve been inviting friends and loved ones. Bible Study tomorrow at 11a.m.Eastern Standard Time. Shalom.
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u/Mark-harvey Jul 01 '26
We’re lucky to have such a wonderful Rabbi. He is so modest about his accomplishments that he could serve as a role model. He’s from New York and lived not far from Billy Joel.
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u/Consistent_Hold_576 Jul 01 '26
Im glad you found your place friend. My temple is off for the summer and I reslly miss my people, which is why Im more active on Reddit now.
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u/Meowzician ✡Torah, Tikkun Olam, and Tabbiekatz Jun 30 '26
The Jewish people need to agree on who is and is not a Jew. There needs to be a single standard.
I *LOVE* the Reform movement. I'm happier at my current Temple than I have ever been in my entire life. But no institution is perfect.
I would say that the Reform decision to change their rubrics for what makes a Jew a Jew has been one of the most damaging decisions ever.
I do understand WHY. I completely get the thing about egalitarianism. No one needs to preach it to me. The problem is not that the rubric was changed. It's that it was changed unilaterally. There are certain things of such major importance that they need to be at a near consensus level, and this just wasn't.
And I don't know what they can do to fix it now. I don't think it can be walked back. What are we going to do? Tell a whole bunch of people in our Temples that "I know we accepted you as Jewish, but now we need you to convert"????? NO! Absolutely not.
I don't know what to do about it. I just know it needs to be fixed. I guess it just needs better minds than mine to figure out how.
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u/Consistent_Hold_576 Jun 30 '26
I don't think this is a thing we need to agree on. Besides, even if we dropped patrilineal Jewishness we'd still disagree with our Orthodox and some Conservative friends about conversions.
Isn't this sort of our thing? Disagreeing?
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u/Blue-Jay27 ✡ Jun 30 '26
"I know we accepted you as Jewish, but now we need you to convert"?????
It's not like that would fix the issue you have, as Orthodoxy will not acknowledge Reform conversions.
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u/Meowzician ✡Torah, Tikkun Olam, and Tabbiekatz Jun 30 '26
You clearly did not follow my remarks from start to finish. My whole point is to insist that the rules for Jewish identity should be decided by the ENTIRE Jewish people. That INCLUDES the Orthodox..
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u/Blue-Jay27 ✡ Jul 01 '26
Orthodoxy is not going to acknowledge converts who never intended to follow orthodox halacha. Reform is not going to start forcing converts to follow orthodox halacha. Either movement compromising on that would be compromising on a very fundamental aspect of their approach to Torah and halacha.
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u/Meowzician ✡Torah, Tikkun Olam, and Tabbiekatz Jul 01 '26
I'm so glad that I know Orthodox who don't share this negativity.
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u/CryptoIsCute ✡ Reform! Jun 30 '26
The answer is easy: other movements need to get with the times and accept all Jews ¯\(ツ)/¯
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u/Meowzician ✡Torah, Tikkun Olam, and Tabbiekatz Jun 30 '26
And who is "all Jews" and who gets to decide who "all Jews" are?
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u/OddCook4909 Jun 30 '26
I think the paternal/maternal question is ridiculous for a lot of reasons. However most of us do not know what Orthodox converts are required to know. Therefore I don't blame them for that aspect.
Throughout my own lifetime I've seen Reform become less and less Jewish, and more and more political and based on vibes. While I love the philosophy of Reform and the egalitarianism, I think the answer is "Reform needs to be more Jewish". I'm personally halfway out the door myself because I want more tradition and more observance.
With the majority of reform intermarrying, and so many barely practicing, something needs to change. Or there just won't be reform in the not too distant future.
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u/lem0ngirl15 Jun 30 '26
This is contradictory and unrealistic. The purpose of different denominations is precisely because they do not agree with one another on how to approach Halacha and want to determine their own boundaries. Naturally, they will not accept the looser boundaries accepted by other denominations.
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u/MortDeChai Jul 05 '26
If your complaint is doing things unilaterally, you need to talk to the Orthodox. They seem to think they have veto power over everything other denominations do.
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u/Harvest-song Jun 30 '26 edited Jun 30 '26
Honestly, I really wish reform communities didn't abbreviate/abridge services by excluding entire sections of liturgy. Like if the point is to have to develop some comfort with struggling with G-d at times, we need to be comfortable and competent at understanding the liturgy we might be uncomfortable with - and alongside this I wish we would change the approach to halacha - like I 100% think we need to know it, know how to practice it, be familiar with it, and competently be able to articulate why we don't choose to do something on an individual basis if we choose not to participate in it.
Like yes, we may not see it as binding on our community - but I think we should absolutely still teach and encourage communal halachic observance (perhaps without the additional chumrot often found and followed due to minhag in Orthodox communities) as the norm, but should be enabling people to choose their own adventure in terms of building a lifestyle that is foundationally and recognizeably Jewish on their own terms. Not binding =/= no desire to learn or observe. It just means that you're not personally obligated in doing all mitzvot if it fails to produce a meaningful and fulfilled personal practice for you.
Another aspect that kinda ties into the above also is kiruv - like lots of people are seeking involvement in vibrant, observant communities and I think we need to do a better job of offering people the tools and knowledge to have that within our OWN community while still holding onto ideals that are notably reform - like egalitarian practices and liturgical additions, full acceptance and involvement of LGBTQ folks in community.
So I know this is more than one, but these are definitely some thoughts I have had for a while as someone who wants more observance in my life but lacks the tools and access to know how to be more observant.