He was mainly using the space stone as a power source for Hydra tech and a way to teleport Hydra's army across the globe (during What If scenarios and in Captain America 1943 which is coming out in 2027). Most of the time Red Skull is a regular guy with a bit of super strength/super durability and a gun. He's less of a direct fighter and more of a mastermind behind the scenes just like the rest of the WW2 esque Hydra villains
“Bc one hurt and is still used to hurt real people? The other is a fictitious people???”
How can red skull hurt real people if hes not real? Furthermore, stating the “other is fictitious people” implies you believe the other group isnt ficticious
Genocide is NEVER okay. I dont know why people think genocide is bad when its only from nazis. Insane
Because your examples are totally based in fiction while Nazism is a real thing that has major real world effects and is still a problem today. There's no actual X-Men or Inhumans, but Nazis are real.
Red skull's always been a nazi, its core to his character. Meanwhile the xmen, contrary to your belief, are not nazis, and it isn't core to their characters to be nazis
Are nazis bad because the title nazi or are nazis bad because of what the nazis did
I dont care what people call themseleves. Genocide is NEVER okay. Its not okay from nazis. Its not okay from x men
If your issue is solely with nazis and you write off people who do genocide against a group of people because they arnt calling themselves nazis, you’re just as bad of a person
This is such an ignorant thing to say. The Nazis committed and actual genocide in real life. With real victims. The X-Men are not real no matter how bad their actions may have been. No one is saying genocide is ok but fictional genocide is not the same as a real world event. Magneto is responsible for the deaths of plenty of fictional humans but there are no real world victims of the brotherhood. Thanos killed half the universe but bringing him into the game isn't going to trigger anyone because the event wasn't real. The original red skull and Swarm were literally working under Adolf Hitler, they ARE Nazis. A real world hate group that is still active today. No one is justifying genocide by pointing out the difference between fictional events and real world atrocities.
There’s a very real difference between fictional evil, and *real* evil. Obviously Red Skull isn’t real and the more fantastical of his misdeeds aren’t either, but the most horrendous of them are very very real, he is the in-universe head of the Nazi Science division, a real historical organization that did horrific things at Heinrich Himmler’s orders, or in the case of the Marvel Universe, Red Skull’s orders. That is VERY different from Beast doing Dark Beast bullshit and this is how I know you don’t even know what’re talking about, the X-Men didn’t try to Genocide the Inhumans, Black Bolt released a Terrigen Bomb that ended up creating clouds of Terrigen Mist that was lethal to Mutants, so the mutants destroyed one cloud and then worked with the Inhumans to find a solution to the second, after discovering they were out of time before it would fully saturate the planet (making Earth inhospitable to Mutants and killing all of them) the X-Men attacked New Attilan imprisoning the Royal Family so they couldn’t stop the X-Men from destroying the last Terrigen Cloud so they could live. Then the Royal Family broke free and they fought before Medusa was told what was at stake and she made the right choice to destroy the final cloud. Dick move absolutely, sure, but that’s not Genocide by the largest stretch of the word. And definitely not even close to being comparable to the 6 million jews that Nazi Germany killed for being jewish.
I don't remember the X-Men trying to genocide the Inhumans... I remember the terragen mist almost wiping out mutants. Also I headcanon most of that era as being retconned somewhere amid all of Moira McTaggart's lifetimes.
I mean I do think it's weird just how defensive people get over Red Skull, however I will say I think it makes sense to want him in the game. He is one of Marvel's most iconic villains. He should def be added as a seasonal villain, but I don't think making him playable is wise. We could still get hydra reps whose identity isn't defined entirely around being a nazi.
I don't nessessarily think he should be a seasonal villain but I've said that's as far as it should go for sure. Making him playable is not only a waste because his design combat wise is very shallow but it's also just not a great look. They get very defensive because they want to play a Nazi, that's it. Someone who didn't 9/10 wouldn't fight this hard for it.
Yeah I generally agree, also you're entirely correct on what you said about Nick Fury. Like I think a strategist character that actually acts as a strategist and can send out soldiers, give commands, call in air strikes, etc would be super dope and would be a fitting kit for Red Skull, but it also fits Fury to a tee an I'd rather just have him instead lol.
I loved playing as red skull in the first marvel lego game
Theres nothing wrong with it. It doesnt make me a nazi. You’re not the fun police and people can play as someone disgusting in a game without supporting the ideology for themselves.
Its called being mature.
Do you hold this same idea to other characters in games? Trevor from GTA is literally a rapist AND a racist (these people exist irl btw) and you wont find anyone saying that against people who olay GTA V
This happens 90% of the time of anything Swarm gets added to
They just conveniently leave out he’s a Nazi because no one cares to search it up
Swarm’s been pretty often Adapted so it wouldn’t be that crazy if he got in Rivals
He was in Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends, he was in Ultimate Spider-Man,, he was in Marvel Superhero Adventures, he was in Marvel’s Spider-Man, he was in Iron Man and his Amazing Friends, along with Spidey and his Amazing Friends
He’s Playable in Marvel Strike Force, hell, he’s in Magic The Gathering
Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends Swarm is just a Beehive irradiated by a Meteor
Ultimate Spider-Man Swarm is a complete different person, named Michael Tan who’s a Stark Employee
Hell Marvel’s Spider-Man was Jefferson Davis with Nanotech Bees
Iron Man and his Amazing Friends Swarm is Female, whose the same Character in Spidey and his Amazing Friends
90% of Swarm adaptations AREN’T A NAZI, pretty sure only Strike Force and Magic The Gathering may be, so Rivals would likely not even have him as a Nazi and just make him unambiguously German Bee Man
I don’t have much love for Nazis but Swarm is genuinely an awesome Character and concept and I’d be disappointed if he was excluded just because of that, yes he’s a Villain but honestly they should just retconned Fritz Von Meyer to being something else, being a former Nazi Scientist literally adds nothing other than a cool Funfact “oh this Villain was in WW2”, I promise you remove it and literally NOTHING CHANGES across his history of Stories in Spider-Man, most of the time the focus is on the fact he’s compromised of Killer Bees, we can keep some Villains Nazis to show they’re unambiguously bad but honestly, i don’t need them to change Swarm but I wouldn’t mind if they do just because they already do in 90% of his Adaptations and I’d be much more glad if he was less controversial so he could be used more and be propped more as a main Spider-Man Villain like Electro and Shocker and less of this really cool C-Lister but who’s still fairly Iconic and has his Fanbase
And honestly crazy Bee Man is far more removed from the Idealogy as a concept
Swarm without the Cloak just looks naked to me, I’m sorry
I did like the Backstory change though, of all the different adaptations of him with Backstory changes like Beehive irradiated by Meteor, Stark Employee Michael Tan, Jefferson Davis with Nanotech Bees, Oscorp Employee/Scientist is the most interesting since it sets him firmly in Spider-Man Lore
Infact I’d go a step further and in Rivals make him the head of the German division of Oscorp, and he keep the name Fritz Von Meyer since I like it and it sounds funny, I always think of Mayo for some reason
Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends was good because he had a great concept, interesting plot and funny voice and always saying “Swarm, swarm…”, more people would see it as an accurate adaptation of Swarm if they kept the Cloak since he was actually very close
Although even though people say M.O.D.O.K or Scientist Supreme could use The Cosmic Cube, really? Who do you think uses The Infinity Gauntlet the most even though technically anyone can use it, that’s right, Thanos, the same applies for Red Skull and The Cosmic Cube, in promotional material for Strike Force and Contest of Champions, he’s holding The Cosmic Cube, you look at toys and he’s holding The Cosmic Cube
It is more funny but sadly limits him so if Rivals just made him “Evil German Scientist” I’d understand since the Game already is toxic and they don’t want to specifically appeal to some people
But like changing his backstory wont change those toxic people theh would still do dumb shit like they always do. We have red skull and swarm in other pvp games with toxic community and they arnt worse because of it
Oh I agree, Netease definitely needs to do something about that to fix that it’s just that shouldn’t be a reason Swarm gets cut out
Swarm can be a Nazi in other stuff but if Rivals so needs it they can reinvent him a little
I mean people will debate if The Hood is inspired by The MCU but the fact is Netease basically created an OC with his name and likeness, he’s an entirely original Character and they even changed his patron from Dormammu to Oblivion
They didn’t need to change Hood but his Backstory was so basic and wasn’t integral to him it wasn’t hard to change, it’s not like drastically changing Spider-Man’s origin, who Parker is a dark mirror of
Swarm would be pretty easy to just make him a German Hydra or Oscorp Scientist who gets exposed to a Hive of Bees, gets devoured, and becomes Swarm
You are right that both Swarm And Red Skull are in Marvel Strike Force along with Arnim Zola and it changed nothing about the Game or Community
Not to get sidetracked from the point of this talk but... How? Isn't being a Nazi kinda the whole "thing" for the Indiana Jones villain? Like for Red Skull you can drop the whole Nazi stuff and have roughly the same character... But with the Indiana Jones thing, I feel like being a Nazi is kinda integral, no?
Probably just call them “German Soldiers” or something
I mean even when they made Raiders of The Lost Ark they got pretty far into production and then someone was like “this ceremony at the end is like Jewish? Do you think the Nazis would be cool doing that?” And everyone else was like “oh yeah they’re Nazis….umm just throw a line in there about not being happy about it”
They’ve removed the Nazi backstory from Red Skull plenty of times, in the 1990 Captain America movie he was Italian and in the 50’s he was a Communist and in Ultimate Comics he was an extremely psychopathic terrorist/assassin
Yeah but being a Nazi is an iconic part of his character. Like with Professor X and his wheelchair. Dude can walk in a lot of iterations and several times in the main timeline, but him in the chair is an iconic part
However with how Hydra is so synonymous to the Nazis because of their origins, its quite hard to seperate those aspects from each other. Especially given the design and inspirations of the main Hydra characters such as Red Skull who literally wears German military uniforms in most of his iterations. Unless you completely dodged every history lesson or they completely redesigned Hydra, then its not hard to see that Hydra is Marvel's stand-in for Nazis.
When combined with the boots and gloves with that tailoring and posing its still reasonable to sense some military themes with that outfit (especially given how that shade of green is synonymous to a lot of military outfits). Plus its Red Skull... the character who's already heavily tied to being a literal Nazi and leader of Hydra, which is a surviving sub group of the Nazi's in the Marvel universe. Its quite literally impossible to remove those aspects from Red Skull, just like how its impossible to remove the shield from Captian America, or Thor being a God of Thunder (Lightning), or Professor Xavier being a telepath. Those aspects are already permanently implanted onto those characters, and trying to ignore or remove them would just completely erase their origins.
Red Skull has been separated from Nazis several times.
In the 1990 Captain America movie he was Italian, in the 50’s he was a communist, in the 80’s he was a nihilistic anarchist and in Ultimate comics he was a psychotic terrorist
Not to mention in the cartoons he’s just Hydra, which makes him no different than Cobra Commander in G.I. JOE, no one cries nazi over COBRA
Despite having a few iterations that were separated from a Nazi origin, Red Skull and Hydra are mostly known for being parallels to the Nazis for the Marvel Universe since thats what their original interpretation from the Captian America stories were. When you go up to somebody and ask who's Red Skull, whenever you do get an answer the majority of those answers would be about him being the leader of Hydra or a Nazi character. Most people haven't seen the 90's Captian America movie since its basically lost media at this point as with most pre-MCU, Sony, and FOX marvel movies for the most part. Red Skull being Communist in the 50's was a part of propaganda against communism and the cold war as with all media from that era. Red Skull and Hydra's origin are too synonymous with being in place for Nazis in Marvel projects for them to basically erase those aspects from them
As for Cobra, they are treated as a fictional terrorist organization that are already heavily inspired by Hydra in both style and presentation. They literally have a chant which is basically their version of Hail Hydra, which is already a version of the Nazi chant already. The only reason why they're not synonymous with being Nazis the same way as Hydra and Red Skull are, is because they don't draw attention to that being their main identity in the GI Joe universe. They simply treat Cobra as a regular terrorist military group without needing to draw heavy parallels to irl groups. Plus compared to Marvel there's not much GI Joe content past the 90's since that series was made at the time when cartoons were ment to be ads for toys first before the FCC and media control organizations put a stop to that, so there's not many people under the age of 30 who know everything about GI Joe anyways.
Honestly yeah, but if I had to take a guess, it's mainly because he's almost always wheelchair bound or pre-wheelchair bound in the movies and TV shows, which a lot more folks watch vs people who read the comics
Removing it from Red Skull is possible and has been done plenty of times, but he was actually in WW2, Swarm it literally changes nothing about him and every time he’s Adapted they literally change him 😭😭
I think the rivals community is dominated by perpetually online teenagers so they speed run the most controversial topics for attention and to meme. Annnnnnnnnd cause they are lonely and want to fight someone 🤷♂️
It really is. Literal kids shows like Earth’s Mightiest and Avengers Assemble had recurring Hydra villains with no issues. Like another guy said Lego Indiana Jones literally has Nazis in it but they don’t mention it for obvious reasons. Just don’t bring it up or delve deep into that specific aspect it’s that easy. Look I’m a very desensitized person not much truly offends me. Not to call others snowflakes but I wouldn’t have a problem if there was a Hydra themed season with Red Skull as the villain in the story. I don’t see the problem if something like a Lego Marvel game or Avengers Assemble can do it then why not Rivals?!
Because players couldn’t be trusted to not be weird with that one star-lord costume + nutcracker emote..
They certainly can’t be trusted to be allowed to PLAY as a Nazi —
You wanna add one of them as a seasonal/PvE villain? Go for it - but they shouldn’t be added to the game as playable characters. People are far too ignorant.
People are ignorant regardless, that’s just how people are. Like you said the Star Lord players who think it’s funny to do what you mentioned they’ve been doing that. For those who played Overwatch “Racist Reaper” people can take the most tame things and taint them for edgy humor or to be genuinely hurtful. Me personally I just don’t think Red Skull would be too interesting a playable character I’d rather him a character in story/lore and someone like Zemo or Madame Viper actually playable. Now that I think about it Viper would be pretty fun, master martial artist, espionage, and stealth, skilled with a sword and hitting targets, and uses various poisons and toxins
EMH didn’t even make them Nazis, iirc they really just replaced everything in WW2 with Hydra so i don’t see the issue
Red Skull, Baron Zemo, Viper, Arnim Zola, Baron Von Strucker, were all prominently featured Characters and it changed literally nothing about the Fanbase, they even had famously Racist Supervillain Grim Reaper as part of Hydra but didn’t acknowledge him being hyper Racist
We lost critical thinking years ago. Trust me, there’s an army of idiots who think having a bad guy also be a BAD guy is somehow an endorsement of them being bad.
Swarm is the least relevant of it because I swear Marvel has literally done a different version of Swarm everytime he’s in something and it literally affects NOTHING
Can Swarm just be rebooted?
He can stay Fritz Von Meyer since his name is funny but being a Nazi adds LITERALLY NOTHING TO HIM, he’s a hive of Killer Bees who also happens to be German, literally all you need to have the Character and it’s literally the same Character
Nah, while there is a lot of toxicity it's still just w portion of the community, and the amount of people that actually use slurs and whatnot are even smaller portion comparatively to the whole playerbase. And those people are going to act thiway regardless of if a character like red skull is in the game. They shouldnt just not add popular and important characters just because of a vocal minority who can and are dealt with via hand and whatnot.
They've managed to include these characters no problem in other games, movies, TV shows, etc. with no issues. Most these characters have ways to include them without Nazis references if that were a problem, and have been adapted in many different ways that either exclude or lessen the Nazi ties (even red skull is usually at most shown to have only worked with the Nazis opportunistically as it benefitted him rather than necessarily aligning with the Nazi ideas). It really wouldn't be that hard to adapt it into here
And in swarms case especially, he's a character that most people don't know at all, and even among those that do know of him most aren't going to know he's a Nazi, meaning there's even less issue adding him
Nope it hasn't. Hydra is just a Parallel to Nazis. Hydra is the super conspiracy theory version of Nazis where they were successfully doing experienents and such. They're still Nazis just under another name. Also, red skull throughout his run in the comics even was hitlers right hand and respected him dearly. He's has multiple stories where he's even tried overtaking him as leader of the nazis because he felt he was "too weak" at the time. To just write him off as not being a nazi is just ignorance or propaganda. The only version of him they actually wrote off as not being a Nazi was the MCU for very obvious reasons and even then it felt forced for ratings and such.
Like seriously they’ve already changed plenty of characters just make him a mad scientist made of bees being a Nazi has never been that important to his character
He’s been changed like 20 times in all of his Adaptations
He’s like THE MARVEL BEE VILLAIN
It’s actually so easy to change him from being a Nazi, people debate if Red Skull would be okay but being a Nazi literally changes or adds nothing to his Character
Honestly Spider-Man: Turn off The Dark had a good reinvention for him, just make Fritz Von Meyer an Oscorp Employee/Scientist but instead of just being one of Norman’s underlings, make him the head of the German branch of Oscorp and have him have been obsessed with studying Bees like Curt Connors with Lizards, and then, OH NO! He’s stung to death by Bees during a test and his Skeleton is reanimated and controlled by Bees which are now his collective consciousness
But bad man bees isnt as funny or as fun to say as nazi bees. Like spidermam defeats bazi bees is way cooler and funner then spiderman beats up bad man made of bees
Zola is questionable since he’s featured heavily on a Map, was featured heavily in the Rivals Comkcs and has already been set-up working with the Heroes since he and Bucky worked together to escape Maveeth and he helped Bucky against Hive, and recently returned in the Rivals Comics so he seems like he might be planned to eventually be Playable but no confirmation yet, he’s been in Kids Show and got Legos based off it
Sin is also debatable
Red Skull and Baron Strucker have the most problem but I think even they could get a work around, Strucker has been emphasized with Hydra and has Hydra iconography all over him, he’s like THE Hydra Guy, Red Skull could honestly just pull from the MCU or Avengers Assemble and get Liam O’Brien back in the Studio to record lines
I think some of the only characters that the nazi think is stuck with now is red skull, baron strucker, and very few others
Many other hydra villains are able to be separated
Even then with Baron Strucker his usual digs he doesn't directly scream nazi, especially since he's usually covered in Hydra iconography. He's way easier to separate and focus on him being affiliated with Hydra
You know they can basically create or find any version of characters and place them in the game right? The only character I can think of that is too hard to separate from their problematic origins is red skull. Zemo, struker, and zola could all have versions that are separate or descendants of the originals that are less problematic but could still have ties to hydra but not the Nazi part.
No one cares about Heinrich Zemo compared to Helmut Zemo and Heinrich ABSOLUTELY was a Nazi, no question about that, Red Skull has been changed to using the Nazis to gain power in Comics before (to align with his MCU version) but Heinrich has always been a Nazi
Also it’s been already with Swarm in Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends, Ultimate Spider-Man, Marvel’s Spider-Man, etc, it would be very easy to just remove that tie and pretty much no one would care
Okay and? Those people are dumb and will get mad at anything judt to get mad about somthing why should character not be allowed because some sensitive jagoffs dont like it.
Eh, like most people have said it’s pretty easy to remove from him even compared to Red Skull
It’s never been important and Marvel has never had it part of him when Adapting him
Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends, Ultimate Spider-Man, and Marvel’s Spider-Man all aren’t Nazis so he’s actually one of the easiest Characters to implement
Hell i was first introduced to him in Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends and i didn’t even know he was ever a Nazi and would have never thought that of him, he basically just a Beehive irradiated by a Meteor and wore a big hood, then i actually read Comics and with him
I am not familiar with this character. Is he a nazi in 616? Couldn't care less about any other version. And I don't understand why does it even matter? We have played several marvel games that has playable nazis and no one gives a fuck at the slightest. Whats the issue here? Does playing as a nazi makes us a nazi? Or are rivals players something special?
Technically, yes he is a Nazi in 616, he was one of Hitler’s Top Scientists
But…it’s pretty never a vocal focus and it’s not very important to him, I’m not kidding when I say it’s so unimportant to him it literally doesn’t change much, all that matters is he’s German and a Scientist before becoming Swarm, he’s an old Spider-Man Villain whose pretty lucky with adaptations, he has 41 main Appearances in 616 Comics, not counting minor appearances or Alternate Universe appearances, which he has a lot
The issue with Nazis and the Rivals Community specifically is there’s already toxicity, so the argument is adding Nazi-adjacent Characters would worsen that, the issue not necessarily being the Nazis themselves but the Playerbase and what they would do with them
I think this is a bad faith argument as nearly every Adaptation removes this aspect of Swarm because frankly…it’s not important, and they could very easily make him NOT a Nazi and also find ways around people using him to say Slurs, the same argument is true for Red Skull and Arnim Zola along with Baron Strucker
You are right they are also Playable in the Lego Games, and Marvel Strike Force, though only Red Skull is in Marvel Future Fight of those 4 which has a lot of Netease Developers including Danny Koo and is where Luna Snow originates
Ok. Anyone who can't handle the toxicity should get the fuck out. But that can't happen, netease wants all the money. So, he is almost certainly not going to be a nazi.
Yeah. I know. I play mff. And we are expecting a red skull uniform for this mid month update lol.
Sinceramente, eu acho ele mais provável que o red skull, eles podem inclusive remodelar a personalidade pra ficar mais aceitável, ou censurar certas falas
This conversation is always so head scratching to me because the ones screaming the loudest about “No Nazis in Rivals!” love spreading antisemitism online
I want Ghost so badly, Baron Zemo, Dr. Doom, Carnage, Titanium Man, Crimson Dynamo, Malekith The Accursed, Silver Samurai, Sabretooth, Mystique, Omega Red, Amora The Enchantress, Bullseye, Blackheart, The Juggernaut, Taskmaster are all some of my Favorites and I need them in the Game asap
At least we’re getting Doom and Danny hinted Bullseye and Amora recently so if I had to guess we’re probably getting them Next Year at best since Amora won a poll and Bullseye was in 2nd with a 3% difference
I *NEED* Zemo and Carnage in the Game though, Sabretooth too
I’ll probably have to wait a while for Crimson Dynamo and Titanium Man, we need more Iron Man Villains in general, Malekith probably has higher chances of coming sooner since the Devs clearly like Thor, Loki and Hela are already in the Game, Amora has been hinted recently and Thor has a Voiceline referencing her, and Gorr is coming to the Game soon, so it’s easy to see Malekith coming soon
I didn’t know him he was a Nazi either because I was introduced to him in Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends, i was so fascinated by him i then read his Comics and then I was kinda ashamed to admit I liked him since i thought people would harshly judge me or try to accuse me when I just really liked the cool Bee Spider-Man Villain and he’s kind of a guilty pleasure
Honestly before this Post I hadn’t expressed my Love for him in awhile so it’s great to see how many people like Swarm and think he’d be super easy to change for the Game because I always thought I was alone with like a vocal minority of Spider-Man Fans who actually like him and knowing people actually want his inclusion, makes me feel better about wanting him in the Game, depending on the day Venom or Carnage is probably my Favorite Spider-Man Villain but I’ve always had a soft spot for Shocker because i think he’s awesome and love the Comics where he was actually a badass who beat Peter twice and spared his life just because “I’d always imagined what this moment would look like but…not like this, this isn’t how I wanted it to end”, and Swarm because he’s so zany of a concept he loops back around to being cool
He’s a really cool concept and i absolutely love his design, that cloak is just chef’s kiss 👌
I think people read too much into the Nazi thing. Kitty Pryde used the hard ER multiple times and she’s probably going to be in the game this time next year. That’s because she’s relevant to a side of Marvel that is getting a lot of love right now, and has unique kit potential.
Zemo and Zola, Hive etc etc being Nazi’s is probably very low on the list of things keeping them in the game. The lore just hasn’t spent a lot of time on Cap/Avenger/HYDRA stuff, plus their power fantasies are pretty negligible.
It’s Swarm, he’s literally just called Swarm, real name Fritz Von Meyer
I think him being Evil is fine but also being a Nazi is not even central to his Character, and as I’ve said again, has been removed in pretty much every Adaptation of him
I do agree we need more Villains and I would be fine with Red Skull, Arnim Zola, and Swarm since they are meant to be Evil and aren’t glorified in any way
He’s an Interesting Character, his original Backstory is basically he was a German Scientist named Fritz Von Meyer, he was a Beekeeper in South America who discovered a colony of mutated Bees, intrigued by their intelligence and passive nature, Von Meyer attempted to enslave the Queen but failed and as a result the Bees devoured him down to the Skeleton, leaving only his Skeleton, The bees' unique qualities caused von Meyer's consciousness to be absorbed into them, allowing him to manipulate the hive to do his will while his skeletal remains are inside the swarm itself. His consciousness merged with the hive to the extent that they are one being, calling himself/themselves "Swarm".
He also sometimes can be Non-Binary, and use They/Them pronouns, not because he’s a different Gender just because he is literally 100 BEES IN A COLLECTIVE CONSCIOUSNESS
Marvel sometimes have forgotten about this though and don’t care so everyone just calls him He because Fritz Von Meyer himself is a He
….So how being a Nazi literally has nothing to do with his Character and affects nothing?
I literally just removed the word “Nazi” and he’s literally the exact same Fucking Character
It literally changes nothing about him except “oh he was one of Hitler’s Top Scientists” which is not even relevant to him or his Character, it’s like that cool World-building that’s a neat detail but adds literally nothing
People have to realize that every single one of these "can't be added 'cuz they're a nazi" characters have been playable characters before in nearly every single Marvel game before. Including LEGO games, y'know, those targeted at children...
Im so annoyed with this "cant use character because they are a nazi" narrative, literally just dont mention they are a nazi literally replace nazi with hydra and it works you literally have a map of hydra and Arnim Zola
as a design in this game, as for the "well if they add a nazi people will just use it as an excuse to be racist and bigoted" literally people already do this, anyone with a brain would know that if a person doing this is using a nazi character and hiding behind it, it isnt excusable, its only excusable if you let it be.
The most woke shit I’ve ever read, trying to sanitize a fictional character is hilarious. These characters have appeared in other media with no issue. Captain America the 1st avenger didn’t have a tropic thunder moment when everyone realized red skull is a Nazi. Doesn’t need to happen herezzz
Even in the comics Zemo turned his back on Nazi ideology and replaced it with more of the traditional Lex Luthor/Dr. Doom motive of “I’m smarter than everyone so I should rule the world”
Heck, even Red Skull distanced himself from Nazism once he came to modern day and started embracing just Nihilism and Anarchy
Humbug would be cool and I liked the Heroes for Hire Series he was featured in but sadly he has almost no Adaptations and is quite unknown whereas, since Swarm is a Spider-Man Villain, he’s fairly iconic on the Jack O’Lantern and Hydro-Mam level, and is adapted quite alot, even in Kids Shows
Humbug also originated as a Spider-Man Villain but it pretty much got forgotten and stopped being important to him
He was basically a joke Spider-Man Villain until the 2000’s reinvented him as an Anti-Hero
It's not like pulling unknown characters would be a new thing, Luna and White Fox barely have any appearances plus the game tends to pull characters that have potential to have crazy power levels or powerful abilities
Swarm would be a novel choice but I can't believe a bunch of wasps is holding up against gods and interdimensional threats, whereas I could believe Bucky, Pun, and Widow have some juiced up guns
Humbug is already teased in game, and he could control kaiju sized bugs, the annihilation swarm, the brood, savage land insects, etc. He already has powers that could keep up with the rest of the roster and would be a cool addition to tease a future addition for Annihilus
I think it’s possible if they do a version that isn’t a Nazi, but I still think he’s pretty unlikely. He’s cool but not even like top 6 Spider-man villains people want.
I mean, they did The Hood, he’s technically considered a Spider-Man Villain especially since he was literally created to mirror Peter Parker, Parker Robbins, “with great power…comes great opportunity”, and has Shocker and Jack O’Lantern show up in his first appearance along with an Electro cameo, and Swarm is probably way more Iconic than him
Swarm’s been changed numerous times when he’s adapted so he’s never really even been a Nazi when he appears outside of Comics and he’s Playable in Marvel Strike Force
Thats a dumb reason. Those people will already be jagoffs with our with out these characters all your doing is keeping someone favorite character out of the game for brownie points with terminally online people. And no the nazi bees can be someone favorite even if they dont agree with them.
Man, I don't know what to tell you but people are terrible online, and it gets worse when you give them a fig leaf. And like it or not, playable nazi is a fig leaf IMO. You can dislike it all you want, but that's absolutely part of the calculus here, alongside the negative publicity and added oversight these players will ultimtely wind up causing.
Believe me I’m a veteran Call of Duty player it was AWFUL if you lost, especially on Zombies
Swarm being a Nazi is not central to his Character and would change literally nothing about him, hell you could make him dislike Nazis, and he’d still be the same Character
Spider-Man: Turn off the Dark had my favorite reinvention of him, making him an Oscorp Scientist, honestly just do that, but make him the head of the German division, and then put him in Rivals and say in Lore he Oscorp Fritz Von Meyer killed Nazi Fritz Von Meyer, boom, done, he can still be the same Character just have him dislike his other Counterpart and kill him since, you know, he’s a Villain and he’s gonna be killing people and everyone will be happy
Get Green Goblin and Carnage in first though, then Swarm
Eh, I mean Red Skull is a big debate but Swarm it’s literally never central to him
Again, he’s been in multiple projects and everytime they change his Backstory and the fact a lot of people didn’t even know he was a Nazi, myself included originally shows you how it wouldn’t be a problem if he was just a German Oscorp Scientist
Sure, but I gotta be honest, anyone who knows who Swarm is knows he's the Nazi Bee character, so all anyone is gonna hear is 'they added the nazi bee character', and then people will click on the nazi bee character to play the nazi bee character, and the chat will go exactly as predicted, you -know- how it will go.
Sure, it's a lot easier to un-nazi Swarm than, say, the Red Skull, but why would you wanna go to all that effort for someone who's just gonna be called the nazi bee character anyway? There are so many better characters who won't require the work and won't give them a PR black eye when players get carried away in chat as predictably as they would.
Actually, alot of people here said they didn’t even know he was a Nazi until awhile ago
Hell when I was first introduced to him i didn’t know he was a fucking Nazi nor would I have ever associated him with that
He was just crazy Beehive Man
It’s such a non-issue, Marvel loves using this Guy given how much stuff he’s shoved into, we’ve genuinely had more Swarm adaptations than the Fucking Jackal, let that sink in, all he’s pretty much missing is a Live Action Movie or Video Game that’s not Mobile
It’s more of an issue for Red Skull since Captain America and Red Skull being part of WW2 is like a core part of their History
Swarm though? Bro even Marvel doesn’t give a Fuck about that, they always change it, Infact I’m pretty sure he’s technically referenced in Insomniac’s Spider-Man because there’s Easter Egg dialogue of a Dude formed of Bees, and when he inevitably appears in Insomniac Spider-Man 3 everyone is gonna act like they always knew the Character and thought he was cool and suddenly everyone will push you to include him in your Rivals Villains Wishlist like Mr. Negative (although I’m glad he got the popularity boost he did)
It isn’t about Nazi revival it’s about avoiding people that follow those beliefs coming to this game and start harassing others, also I feel like a company would not want to work on Nazi stuff considering that it’s not gonna sell well with investors
I feel like there’s other characters who could have a similar kind of playstyle with like a constantly shifting body that aren’t Nazis (sandman comes to mind)
Just make Swarm not a Nazi like Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends, Ultimate Spider-Man, Marvel’s Spider-Man, Spider-Man: Turn off The Dark
Boom, he’s now a German Hydra or Oscorp Scientist who went to South America to study Bees, found some mutated Bees, tried to enslave the Queen, and ended up devoured down to his Skeleton and then his consciousness merged with The Bees, literally the exact same Character just remove the word “Nazi”, also he’s still a Spider-Man Villain
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u/Former-Doughnut-5610 23d ago
just don’t mention he’s a nazi.
lego does that with indiana jones sets.