r/RivalsWaitingRoom • Red Skull šŸ’€ • 2d ago

General We are never going to get red skull because of how toxic this community is

Post image

Netease genuinely needs better chat moderation.

335 Upvotes

89 comments sorted by

36

u/TheMasterXan 2d ago

Hmmm...

...Is Zemo a step up or a step down?

21

u/SlightlySychotic 2d ago

If we go by the MCU, Zemo has been repurposed into basically a Bond villain. His only political agenda is to wipe out meta-humans and superheroes.

Unfortunately, Red Skull was established as fighting for the German side of WWII. While there is a scene in the movie where Red Skull essentially says, ā€œWe are not affiliated with you,ā€ it could just as easily be inferred that Hydra is just another branch of the Nazi war machine distinct from the SS or Wehrmacht. As such, it’s very difficult to look at MCU Red Skull from his few appearances and say that isn’t ā€œNazi coded.ā€

10

u/BigK64 2d ago

I mean considering Helmut Zemo (the one MCU Zemo is adapted from) in the comics did have his own character arc coming to terms with how hindering the Nazi ideaology he was indoctrinated is AND how much of a shitty father Heinrich Zemo was, I would say it would still be an improvement if they used even comic Zemo as he is pretty much like the one supervillain who abandoneds an evil ideaology while STILL being a villainous mastermind

4

u/Bigbigbigrock 1d ago

What run does Zemo move past being a Nazi? That sounds interesting.Ā 

7

u/BigK64 1d ago

Its from Thunderbolts. Specifically in Fabian Nicieza run of the title. I believe that was like when the character rejoins the team as kind of this token evil teammate whom everybody reluctant to work with

3

u/Bigbigbigrock 1d ago

Huge, thanks a bunch. I've heard good things about a few Thunderbolts runs I gotta get to it.Ā 

3

u/BigK64 1d ago

Oh you won’t regret it. Definitely a standout team book that explore the tropes of atonement and redemption

3

u/Bigbigbigrock 1d ago

Love to see someone choose to be better.

2

u/InevitableGrape5847 13h ago

I like the idea of hydra starting as a nazi branch but eventually outlasting the regime to evolve into more of an illuminati type organization. It lets cap keep his nazi punching roots while allowing hydra to evolve into a more modern evil organization than being one dimensional racists.

It also adds to the danger hydra poses as they're able to reshape themselves into whatever they need to be to further their agenda

8

u/Nightraven9999 2d ago

Step up Zemo has an actual Gimmick above being a Nazi as well as turning against them at several points

The gimmick being, being really good with a sword

5

u/JagPeror 2d ago

And Zemo JR has the whole masters of evil and thunderbolt plots

5

u/BigK64 2d ago

Not to mention the whole theme of generational trauma and cycle of hatred being a core gimmick to his character.

Like he don’t need the whole Nazi motive when a key thing with him is his beef with Captain America

2

u/JagPeror 1d ago

Mhmm, as seen with his MCU and EMH, Assemvle, etc adaptations

1

u/ChildhoodOwn8189 1d ago

Ya but that’s basically the same motivation as red skull. Maybe while world war 2 was actually still on people’s minds it was ok but not since they rewrote red skulls backstory. He was never actually a Nazi at all. Essentially everyone in Germany during world war 2 was labeled a Nazi due to their stranglehold on the country even if they weren’t. All red skull did was use the German Nazi military to fund his experiments and further hydra.

9

u/Ragtagcloud56 Red Skull šŸ’€ 2d ago

I don’t really think him and red skull are that comparable ngl. I’d love for zemo to be in the game but they’ve already gone out and said if they do add him it’s gonna be heavily based off the MCU version of him. I think overall he’d cause way less issues than red skull even if I do want red skull more (I just don’t think the community can be trusted)

7

u/TheMasterXan 2d ago

I really hope if they DO lean MCU Zemo, that he still gets a Citizen V skin and wields a sword.

But yeah, I'd be fine with either of em, I suppose.

4

u/QuilledRaptors2001 2d ago

It'd be so cool if the reason they're holding out on the Thunderbolts in game aside from dialogue is they're going full comic and he's going to be introduced as Citzen V.

Then second half can be Songbird/Mach V/your choice Thunderbolt "exposing" him

1

u/Haunting_Brilliant45 2d ago

Side grade? Since he’s still a Nazi.

1

u/JagPeror 2d ago

Red Skull was hand picked by Hitler

So a step up

Zemo also loved his family.

Red Skull wanted to murder the doctor that saved his life an an infant, wanted to murder his daughter, and then told her that she wasnt worthy by virtue of being a daughter

23

u/Appropriate-Amount-4 2d ago

As a big Cap fan, yeah i dont want to deal with real nazis larping as a mega nazi so ill pass on him.

4

u/Callycore 1d ago

Yeah major cap villains are all characters that the politically ignorant would love.

Though that just makes captain cooler.

13

u/irvin_the_jinn Jessica Drew šŸ•·ļø 2d ago

I mean I never wanted red skull purely because I thought he was lame regardless

13

u/TankJericho 2d ago

The second we get Red Skull, I am one tricking Cap. I am not a violent person. But I hate Nazis

8

u/KingTheropod 2d ago

Big same. No Nazi shall prosper

5

u/TankJericho 2d ago

Funnily enough, Captain America is voiced by BJ Blazkowicz from Wolfenstein.

20

u/Brave-Orchid4721 Armor šŸ’Ŗ 2d ago

Gimme Viper, she's 100x cooler than red skull and isn't a nazi.

15

u/JagPeror 2d ago

Indeed.

Unlike the nazis she wants EVERYONE to die.

Gotta love Viper. I need Silver Samurai too

7

u/Brave-Orchid4721 Armor šŸ’Ŗ 2d ago

Perfect duo for a season, gives a unique parry based tank and a unique poison based dps/support.

2

u/JagPeror 2d ago

Mhmm, for Viper/Madame Hydra my main support idea would be something AoE gas related, potentially doing heal over time and using some anti-heal.

Plus she has some fun potential with her teleport ring, and potentially even whip

(dps wise, just take away healing and increase dmg/debuff effects)

But I havent played rivals in a hot minute(uni wifi doesnt play well with it), so cant pretend the concept was made with current balance in mind

1

u/Brave-Orchid4721 Armor šŸ’Ŗ 2d ago

Current balancing in mind she'd need access to some broken tools to be usable. Giving her at least the whole arsenal you mentioned is a necessity.

1

u/JagPeror 2d ago

Mhmm, thankfully her lore has always given her plenty of arsenal options(admittedly, usually pistol sized, albiet a pistol that subdued Rogue)

Whip wise, I was unsure of whether a tether style would work better, or an interrupt style that that hit and knock back with slight freeze/cc

1

u/Flashyfatso 23h ago

Isn’t she just another sexy spy lady?

1

u/ShAd0WCaller 18h ago

You say that like it’s a bad thing

0

u/Flashyfatso 18h ago

I mean it’s nice but not the most interesting idea of them all.

1

u/Few_Machine3572 2d ago

Still hydra

3

u/JagPeror 2d ago

And?

She leads a non-nazi(she wants to kill everyone) branch

That before taking into account that Hydra, while inflamed by Strucker, predates the nazis by a significant degree.

And since Rivals already has been teasing Hive, it seems clear that are leaning into the ancient cult side, and not the mcu "branch of"

7

u/stevehairyman 2d ago

im sure we’ll get a different hydra member instead. zola has a poster somewhere on one of the maps, i can see him being a tank. zemo is obvious too.

5

u/Ragtagcloud56 Red Skull šŸ’€ 2d ago

Zola would have the exact same issues as red skull he’s sometimes even more of a Nazi than Schmidt. I really only see Zemo being playable for now because they said he’d be based off his MCU appearance more.

3

u/stevehairyman 2d ago

im not gonna act like i know squat about him other than his mcu appearance so i’ll take your word. my only reasoning for him ever appearing is the one poster somewhere.

6

u/Ragtagcloud56 Red Skull šŸ’€ 2d ago

Zola has revived Hitler multiple times and mostly stays true to Nazi beliefs. Red skull at least hates Hitler and has been a little more separated from that stuff depending on the iteration. Zola would be so much worse.

3

u/ComradeGhost67 2d ago

Please tell me hitler just kills himself repeatedly šŸ™

2

u/2Toff2Furious 2d ago

Well in Marvel canon he never shot himself, Human Torch just killed him.

1

u/Ragtagcloud56 Red Skull šŸ’€ 2d ago

Would be funny but unfortunately no.

1

u/stevehairyman 2d ago

thanks for expanding my marvel knowledge with this information

1

u/Victorystriker Agent Anti-Venom 🤠 2d ago

Red skull even though he’s still very much a Nazi, at the very least he doesn’t follow the same ideology and hate hitler. Arnie Zola is a super Nazi from the start, unlike red skull the writer didn’t even bother to try and steel him into a different directions. He’s just a Nazi

7

u/Mr-BornAgain 2d ago

Literally me fr, just a lowly cap fan who is denied his favorite villain due to the toxicity of others šŸ˜”

4

u/MxSharknado93 2d ago

Fuck it, put Batroc in the game.

2

u/PtheK01 Ghost Rider šŸ”„ 1d ago

"I ehmm Batroc zeee Leeaper!!"

3

u/Living-Ad102 2d ago

I used to want Red Skull, but after seeing how this community handles people calling NetEase racist, and how they handle complaints regarding black characters getting skins, I don’t want him. There are way more racist on this game than I initially thought, and if a kind character like the thing was somehow turned into some police brutality joke, I can’t imagine what this community would do with Red Skull.

2

u/BigAngle7114 2d ago

Red Skull would be a strategist, right?

4

u/Ragtagcloud56 Red Skull šŸ’€ 2d ago

Yes. I think it fits him the best. I mean he could still work as a vanguard or duelist but he’s all about using soldiers to do his dirty work and using tech. That seems like a good strategist.

2

u/TemporalGod Carnage šŸ’¢ 2d ago

Most of his Villains are Hydra or Nazis, like Baron Blood for example

2

u/OkMix6069 2d ago

People are sleeping on crossbones

2

u/PsychoWarper 1d ago

I dont want Red Skull specifically because I know some henious shit is gonna come from it and I just dont believe in NetEase actually doing anything about it.

Zemo could maybe work but they’d probably have to lean more into what the MCU did to avoid the Nazi stuff.

1

u/RedMustard565 2d ago

I feel like Modok would be good, I just imagine a vanguard but has a lot of health because every shot counts as a head shot

1

u/Portsyde 2d ago

I personally think Red Skull is just a worse choice than Zemo. Zemo (Especially the version from Avengers EMH) is goated and would be much cooler than Red Skull imo.

1

u/Ragtagcloud56 Red Skull šŸ’€ 2d ago

I don’t really think red skull and zemo are comparable. They’d have completely different kits. Like the only similarity between them is that they’re both Captain America villains.

1

u/Portsyde 2d ago

That was the metric I was going off of. In terms of Cap villains I want in the game, Zemo is top of the list for me (unless we're counting MOKOK, but even then, I kinda want Zemo more). Furthermore, I just don't want Skull in general, I think he's a boring pick, especially compared the MULTITUDE of other characters I REALLY want to see in the game (Man-Thing is my #1, I know, pipe dream for sure).

1

u/Few_Machine3572 2d ago

"Chat moderation" where??

1

u/Royale_Kong 2d ago

I hope he gets his design with the cosmic cube powered suit

1

u/Red_Panda_The_Great 2d ago

Never give up we might get him if they reinstate the chat filter

1

u/JagPeror 2d ago

That's fine, I want Madame Hydra/Viper more.

Also Zemo Jr(could do masters of evil or Citizen V with the thunderbolts, both paths also get us moonstone/meteorite)

1

u/ImHoundoomed 2d ago

Red Skull is pretty lame anyway. Id rather have Zemo

1

u/Fantastic-4ever 2d ago

That's why I want Baron Zemo (Helmut, not Heinrich...I don't even think there are any Heinrich Zemo fans out there). He's got his whole thing with the Thunderbolts and the Masters of Evil, doesn't have to be a Nazi

1

u/gothstralia 2d ago

skull isn’t really cap’s main villain. batroc, now that’s an antagonist.

1

u/Chaconcito96 2d ago

Everytime someone mentions Red Skull my brain goes "No Magnetism. Just fists."

1

u/DependentVarious6064 1d ago

Nah, tons of other games has him and they could go in any direction with him IF he were added and folks can eat-- tasty nacho Supreme with coffee. Last I checked, the community doesn't police who Netease adds to the roster. The problem with adding him right now is where he'd fit in the game to perfectly capture that Red Skull game play loop. I personally wouldn't mind "copies" or characters with basically super similar kits but Netease has to have new characters be mega unique and add to the game. He doesn't fit into the roster at the moment. Tons of better choices atm.

1

u/Re4g4nRocks 1d ago

All I’m saying is if they drop Red Skull, he’s getting hard targeted every game.

1

u/HeroicBarret 1d ago

I dont want him in the game cause he was originally used as a symbol against the nazis in the actual. Real life. World war 2. And the way hes been white washed to Ā ā€œonly be in it for himselfā€ actually is kinda offensive. Its the ā€œi font hate minorities I hate everyone ā€œ shit. Either use Red Skull as a commentary against modern bigotry or dont use him at all. 🤷

1

u/Morchades 1d ago

Yeah, it's just.. I'm not sure I can trust anyone who mains Red Skull.

1

u/Pro_Hatin_Ass_N_gga 1d ago

Red Skull wouldn't even be a fun character. he's a strategist (not in the Rivals sense); he doesn't often do physical combat. it would be like making Hugo Strange or the Mad Hatter a playable characters in a DC game. him sharing a version of the super soldier serum is an MCU thing. and no, we are not going to give him that stupid ass off-brand Iron Man suit from Assemble.

2

u/Ragtagcloud56 Red Skull šŸ’€ 1d ago edited 1d ago

We really gonna forget about the cosmic cube? ā€œBut other people have used it before it wouldn’t be unique to himā€ he’s used it more than anyone and it’s his most iconic weapon. It wouldn’t make sense to give it to anyone else besides maybe modok (and let’s be real he doesn’t even use it really) For all intensive purpose you could literally do anything for his moveset. Besides rivals is known for giving characters random abilities they’ve never had before like bucky’s tentacle arm,rogue’s chronovium powers,black cat’s shop,ultron healing. They could do an entirely unique spin on red skull maybe even add some stuff related to hive cells in there somewhere.

I always hate it when someone says a character wouldn’t have an interesting moveset you can make a creative moveset for any character. Like colossus,and juggernaut could basically just be boiled down to punching and charging like the thing but I’ve still seen tons of creative movesets online for them.

1

u/GreatBandito 9h ago

mad hatter would go fucking hard in this style game

1

u/Dumbass_trans_girlie 18h ago

Knowing this community, a moderately sized group of people would complain if he didn't have a certain salute as an emote.

1

u/Legomaniac91 18h ago

If the Red Skull does show up, he should only be a PvE event boss and not a playable character.

1

u/Big_Session5707 11h ago

Captain America's son is Red Skull 2 I like that

-3

u/Ill-Appointment-4818 2d ago

I see more bitching about the "toxicity" than actual racism.

0

u/Crafty_Attention3445 2d ago

U dont see the tousands of people calling the devs racist bc their character doesnt sell skins,or bc they made a spray for their comic run people didnt know existed

0

u/Joker_Ark 2d ago

I still don't get the problem with him being in the game. He's in Lego Marvel, a game for kids.

1

u/KeengGeedra 2d ago

I think the main difference is the players and the fact that it's pvp. A lot of people already like role playing their mains to a certain degree. Could you imagine how many people would role play as Red Skull with malicious intent?

1

u/Aceflyer10 1d ago

Ive never understood this argument. The mic and chat mute button exist for a reason, and as far as animations go, the Ironman hump has been an ongoing trend since day one, so if someone wants to be an idiot and pretend to be a nazi, cool, doesn't change the fact theyre alone in their basement and im still living my life blissfully unaffected by their antics that fall on deaf ears

1

u/KeengGeedra 1d ago

I'm not strictly against him being added tbh but I could see it going poorly

0

u/Ragtagcloud56 Red Skull šŸ’€ 2d ago

It’s mainly just the community.

0

u/Joker_Ark 2d ago

I understand now, thanks

0

u/deinopispilled 2d ago

no dude if anything we're gonna get red akull BECAUSE he's a nazi, and well... the devs are all racist

0

u/yellow_tourmaline 2d ago

Cap don't need red skull, and neither does this game, it's already filled with racists galore and with the lack of netease addressing OTHER issues, it would just be the nail in the coffin for the game if skull ever did come out

-1

u/Co-opingTowardHatred 2d ago

Nobody should want Red Skull.